Is there an equivalent long term collectibility or desirability for custom motorcycles like there is for custom cars? Old custom cars seem to come back regularly, a famous creation from twenty or more years ago is found in some barn and it’s restored to its former glory. Whether it’s a custom by George Barris or some other early builder, those cars seem to stand the test of time. The style may not be to anyone’s taste today but it looks good as a custom car from a particular era.
What about motorcycles? The big dollars in early motorcycles come from pristine originals or racers with a pedigree, beyond that there might be a movie bike like Peter Fonda’s Easy Rider, but what else? Were there any early custom builders who built bikes anyone remembers today? There are lots of low volume vintage motorcycles from companies long out of business that are very cool and a lot of collectors want to get their hands on one but where are the old custom bikes? Old choppers from the sixties didn’t age well, the build quality wasn’t very high and no one seems to be digging around looking for them. The few that turn up are usually basket cases and no one cares to spend the time getting them back into shape. Early cafe racers do seem to be a better choice, Tritons and Norvins still looks right and nice ones still get people excited.
Today’s custom bikes are churned out by shops all over the place but take a close look at the next one you see and think about how it will fare in twenty or thirty years. Will it still be cool? I have a hunch the ten foot long chrome and billet show bikes may not do so well, but I could be wrong, if today’s buyer is young enough, he might look back with fondness on the chopper he had “back in the day.”
But today’s customs may have a better chance in some ways because there are some exceptional creations out there, especially the ones that were first. Jesse James’ radial engine motorcycle will still be as impractical and cool in thirty years as today. Some bikes by Roland Sands could do well, especially the rideable ones like No Regrets or RSD Grunt. The KRV5 Tracker should hold up nicely even if it isn’t a rider. Jesse Rooke has a few, too.
I think the better the custom fills the role of motorcycle, the better the long term chances someone will find it desirable in thirty years. If it isn’t a rider, the bike has to be so well built and engineered that people will marvel at the thought behind it. By those standards, though, an awful lot of today’s custom bikes will be forgotten once the paint begins to fade and the chrome begins to tarnish. What do you guys think?
Steve says
I agree with the short half-life thing in regards to pure idea/execution custom bikes. Outrageous lines, cartoonish bits and pieces and especially loud paint jobs will not create more than a brief splash.
Concepts which present some possible alternative to convention, a new avenue to investigate will be held in regard upon retrospect for decades.
hoyt says
Bikes from Cole Foster (Salinas Boys), Hank Young, and Jimmy Shine (So-Cal Speed Shop) should also stand the test of time. All of these builders are also good hot rod car builders and all of them seem to grasp the “less is more” restraint.
“more skulls, more flames, more rake….and yeah, 6 inches higher stretch! What?, a 330 tire?, hell yeah !! “
Mark Savory says
There will always be a market for vintage custom bikes — there is a small market now that is slowly expanding. (Think Bud Elkins and others) Question is whether the “tv name” custom bikes will be worth something decades from now.
I personally think that small limited production sequences (@50 each?) of manufactured “custom” bikes will be the most collectible. Mainly due to the number available and thus club/comradery activities to help promote.
John Bonanno says
Arlen Ness is the King he has built so many that most are forgotten till they are seen again, He has been around for as long as i can remember… built choppers before TV made them cool. I beleive he has been the inspiration for many builders. These bikes, many of which are still in the his hands will sadly be like art… not fully appreciated till the artist is gone. then watch the prices and collectability skyrocket. Look what Von Dutches painters box just took in at auction.
curt winter says
I think bikes that will be remembered most are the ones that started a trend. Rolan Sands bike made a great splash in the industry because he combined American V-twin power with a sport bike chassis. A complete new televised direction, regardless of how good they get he will always be thought of as the guy that started the trend. The Wright brothers plane has had more aviation press than any other flying machine in the world, something to be said for the inovatores.
kneeslider says
To John’s point, I agree about Arlen Ness. I thought about him about 2 minutes after posting this but figured someone would bring him up. Arlen Ness has been around for a while now and some of his early bikes are getting up there in years. Many of his creations were the trend setters for what followed and some of the younger builders probably don’t even know how much their “original ideas” were already used by Arlen years ago.
Going forward I also think the Confederate, Ecosse type of bikes will hold up pretty well. Low volume with lots of character. Not custom, per se, but close to it.
To Mark’s point, I think the TV name bikes will be very spotty in their long term collectibility. The Orange County boys should cash in as much as possible, as fast as possible. Without TV, would Indian Larry’s bikes ever have gone anywhere?
Steve Johnson says
Custom motorcycles will stop being cool when custom cars stop being cool.
Case says
The first post by Steve says it best, I believe. There is clearly a difference between fad and good design.
To Curt’s point, an American V-twin in a sport bike chassis??? Uh, you mean Buell right?
I’m not in love with Buells, or anything, but I do know there’s a whole lot more design effort put into them than what Sands put into “No Regrets”. I mean seriously, that thing may stand out in a crowd of choppers, but it’s nothing more than a custom one-off bike. Are you saying “No Regrets” is an innovation? Compared to what???
kneeslider says
Case, remember what we’re talking about here, one off customs, not pre production prototypes. No Regrets isn’t innovative in the motorcycle world but in the world of biker build offs it was functional enough to win a performance based competition and might have some long term survivability. Someone in twenty years might buy it and still be able to ride it and have a cool custom in his collection.
The same with the Ness bikes, nothing terribly innovative but many of his bikes are memorable and look pretty cool, plus the build quality is probably high enough they would be worth restoring if they deteriorated after sitting around unused.
The custom cars that become collectible are usually designed with a very distinctive look while they still work as a car. Few of those customs are truly innovative in the engineering sense although some may some have interesting components or systems built in.
Long term prospects for a production bike becoming a collectible leads to an entirely different list than you get when you look at the custom world.
John Bonanno says
To counter kneeslider point, Ness has built some pretty innovative stuff, Twin supercharged, car tired (because no bike tires big enough at that time) dual engined, twin turboed, I can’t remember them all but thats still quite a list, and his bikes run and drive not some ridiculous chopper will all the ill handling woes and a fire hydrant for a carb, don’t get me wrong… the Orange county guys are good at what they do just not my taste. I too like Rolands stuff, form should follow function, I hope this trend continues, I dream of a very Italain-ish big twin like Ecosse in my garage on day. Sure its cool to look at but it even cooler to wax someones fanny with that same machine.
Jim says
Remember that most of the old custom cars that are making a splash in the show rings and at auction are 30-50 years old. It will be a while before before the early bikes of contemporary builders become classics.
During the 50’s & 60’s many customs were built. Many were owner built and intended as everyday rides and I expect many of those have ended up in the boneyard. But many of the show customs from that era must be sitting in some musty warehouse somewhere waiting to be found and restored.
Matt says
I don’t think many one-off customs will hold their hyped values for very long.
Bike’s like Egli Kawis and Brittens are the ones that will hold up against time, but outside of the minority of really passionate motorcycle fans the others aren’t really going to command the same attention down the line.
In the big televised hot rod auction there are the Boyd’s specials, and then there the other high dollar customs that fetch big bucks because they follow a formula and trend and can’t really be called one-offs.
Bike collectibility (probably not a real word, but you know what I mean) seems pretty much the same to me. The bikes that will be truly collectible are the ones that either paved the way for a whole new class of bikes, like an ’81 Katana, or well known but limited production machines like Ducati Hailwoods. All these small shop cruisers that aren’t featured on a Discovery Channel show might be unique, and well engineered, but they can be a little too regional, as well as taking a current trend/fad too far.
I’m sure I haven’t made my point too well, but aside from a few exceptions I don’t believe all the Jesse James types out there who believe they’re pushing the design envelope with a rigid frame are going to be historic figures in the motorcycle community.
Ness did have some standouts, though. I’ve always been a fan of one of his sidecar bikes, a yellow one that was Sportster powered and had styling cues from the board track days.
kneeslider says
John, I agree, Arlen did do some pretty neat stuff and the Ferrari bike you refer to, twin superchargers and a car tire in the rear was out there, the twin engined one also had center hub steering and torsion bar suspension. But you know, beyond all of that, what I like best about Arlen Ness is he’s a builder who doesn’t think you have to be some wild eccentric character to build custom bikes and that’s a trend I wish some of the later builders would have followed.
John Bonanno says
Yeah I agree, I’ve been fooling around with motorcycles for around 27 or so years, and I have met my share of characters, some spent more time on their image rather than the bike they were working on… which again form follows function idea was not being followed, they don’t last long in this business. Plus all the TV coverage dosen’t help. Matt brings up a good point most custom cars were built in the 50’s and 60’s most custom bikes are(were) being built 70’s to present, the ones built earlier were more purpose built than show, I bet most were scrapped or taken apart to build others…who knows how many old drag bikes, road race bikes are left in barns…let hope they are discovered rather the rusting away. I remember recently on ebay there was 75 cb750 chopper that was a time warp machine I love to see this stuff… i wonder what happen to it?
davidabl says
…probably most customs will be recycled for parts.
I would imagine that most restored H.D FL’s etc. were once Bobbers or choppers,
or maybe first bobbers then choppers.
guitargeek says
In good design, form follows function. I’m sick to death of $100,000 hardtail choppers with ridiculous amounts of rake. Not a bike I would want to ride every day, for sure. Will these bikes be around in 20 years? Sure! They’re investment pieces, they’ll be traded around between collectors the way other expensive art pieces are.
daddyc479 says
I don’t think anyone will be buying these bikes, I have a friend who paid $75k for a chopper i don’t think he’ll ever get that back due to fashionable imaging.
Gus says
since we are comparing custom cars, ever notice that the highly sought after cars are putting in updated hot rod engines AND also updated suspension? These are the cars that will continue to be collectible.
Here’s hoping that bikes from Curt Winter, Mike Cook, Spondon, Steelheart Engineering, & Roland Sands will get the same respect & collectibility they deserve.
You’ll be able to look at these bikes 25 years from now and think they look good and can handle corners.
p.s. I’ve read that Curt Winter built a custom sportbike chassis for a big twin 10 years ago.
http://bigtwinracers.com/main.php
http://www.americancaferacers.com/
http://www.rolandsands.com/
Curt Winter says
Case, my mistake, I meant using a big twin. I guess I should have stated what American V twin power I was talking about. I just assumed that you would know the main difference between Roland Sands bike and a Buell. One uses a big twin and the other uses a Sportster.
Case says
Okay, I didn’t realize you were just refering to Big Twins. And I see that’s what you do. Makes sense. A Big Twin in a sport bike chassis is quite different than a Buell.
I’m sure Sands’ bike will hold value merely for his name in the industry. But it’s certainly no wonder of engineering or design. Maybe he doesn’t even care so much about that, but I do. Form should follow function, but flashy and garish are usually more popular. I happen to think what you’re doing, Curt, deserves more engineering merit than “No Regrets”. Though, putting a Big Twin with a stock softail trans and primary just seems completely ridiculous to me. The primary is like a whole 5 inches longer than it needs to be.
The Big Twin is limited by it’s massive transmission and primary. All someone needs to do is stack the Harley gears vertically and slam them closer to the crank in a unit transmission. This gives you an incredibly ‘short’ primary and brings your swing arm pivot much much closer.
Hmmm…
Curt Winter says
Case, I couldn’t agree more. I think if the aftermarket would build a compact primary/tranny assembly for the masses you would probably start to see more sport oriented bikes with big twins. You and I both know the value of a big tourqe motor. Demand for such a tranny will be driven by popularity, everything Iv’e built is based around the fxr stuff, it’s not as easy to build a super tight pacage but the trade off is a bike that is built around existing parts and parts that your typical Harley guy is accustomed to, also keeping the price at a more real world level. Iv’e tried that whole stacking of the tranny shafts, it was a real conversation piece but it wasn’t worth the effort, keep in mind though I was working with exsisting parts and not starting from a chunk of billit. Probably would have made a difference, anyway thanks for the recognition in engeneering merit, I don’t know why he used the softail stuff either.
Frank says
I don’t think these bikes will be collectible for one reason….money. Brand new, the bikes already cost a small fortune. In twenty years I don’t think anyone is going to spend more than the original price for one of these bikes.
However, on the other hand because they’re not really that ridable they’re popularity could one day fall. When that happens and there are only a few builders building choppers, than perhaps whatever is left may be collectible.
But again, if they are in fact collectible, I don’t think they will fetch more than the original price unlike cars going for way more than their original cost.