The Buell XBRR is still generating a lot of commentary from our readers concerning whether it should have been allowed to compete in the Formula Xtreme series. A good case can be made that it’s a force fit, not legal except for being called so but the more obvious case against it is that the engine is so ill suited to racing alongside the other bikes. When you have to allow twice the displacement or more to get it close, something’s very wrong.
Here’s an idea. How about a Cruiser Twins class? Harley and Buell could go head to head against the metric cruiser crowd, not with actual cruiser style bikes but build sporting style race bikes powered by the V twins from the various cruisers. Let’s see, beside the HD/Buell you have the Honda VTX, the Suzuki Boulevard, the Kawasaki Vulcan, the V Star, the Warrior, and whatever else. There’s a lot to choose from these days. The Boulevard ads for the M109R already say, “Born of GSX-R Heritage.” Oh yeah? Prove it. Didn’t Jesse James build that cafe racer with a VTX engine? Buell already has sportbikes with Harley engines, I think this could work.
Restrict the class to cruiser twins, which simply stated means unless the V twin engine is sold in a cruiser in the showroom, it can’t run. (Sorry Ducati) Allow huge leeway for the bikes to be as creative and racy as possible but no sportbike twins allowed. HD/Buell can’t get a huge advantage and these Power Cruisers, as everyone calls them, could earn some real bragging rights. They already run them on the drag strips so the idea of racing isn’t crazy, build a suitable frame and put them on the track.
Think of the explosion of bike builders you would have building streetable bikes modeled after these things. Instead of show only but marginally rideable choppers, build big inch V twin “Streeters” or “Trackers” or something. Think how much fun they would be to ride with tons of torque. Think what a race series like that would sound like with all of the twins out there. The short lived “Thunder Twins” series might have had a chance if they opened it up this way. Once Ducati get’s in there and the displacement game starts, it’s all over. (Then watch Ducati build a cruiser just to get into the game!)
Let’s see what the home team can do against its real competitors. Let’s see what these power cruisers really have in them. And best of all, let’s see what bike builders come up with to wrap around these engines. So, … what do you think?
C. J. Luke, III says
It takes a market to support the races. People interested in the big v twins are more about crusing and drag bikes. I would seriously doubt that they would support a ‘sport bike version’ racing circuit. If Buel or any other manufacture wants to show their stuff in the sport bike catagory, they should build to it. I would love to see Buel build a 600-1000cc sport bike that could be competive in it’s respective class. I recently heard that BMW is considering MotoGP although I can’t confirm it. Racing is good for all of us. You can buy a sport bike today that can out perform the MotoGP bikes of 15 years ago and probably be competitive with the MotoGP bikes of 10 years ago, and it will continue to improve as long as the bikes that are racing bear some reasonable similarities to what we can buy. I don’t want to happen to motorcycle racing, what happened to NASCAR. NASCAR used to have rules that required the cars to be at least somewhat representative of production units. They no longer do that and I no longer am interested in NASCAR. NASCAR no longer provides incentive to the manufactures to improve the vehicle performance from the standpoint of production cars.
mark says
How about having a race series for production cruisers? Bike’s speed would be limited not by its engine but by its cornering clearance. 🙂
There are a few interesting V-Twin-powered sportbikes out there (Ecosse Heretic, American Cafe Racers Supermanx, etc) besides Buell. But to be honest, what’s the point in having a V-Twin-specific race series? As the poster above points out, this engine style isn’t really about race performance.
But if someone did start one, then there should also be a series for non-V-Twin cruiser engines. Imagine a cafe racer built around a Triumph Rocket III engine. 🙂
–mark
kneeslider says
The point of the series is to give Harley/Buell a venue for road racing which I think Erik Buell at least would like to compete in. If Buell went out the first year and made a big splash (because only Buells were racing) how long before some Japanese cruiser engine showed up to defend its honor? Why do we have metric cruisers in the first place? Harley dominated until the other guys said, “Hey we can do that, too!”
Buell isn’t going to build a 600cc bike because they don’t have an engine, they use what they have to work with. And that’s the point of a cruiser class, set some rules where these big V twins have a realistic chance of being competitive.
An old book I have on building competition engines says we don’t see Mercedes racing because it would be too expensive. Fast forward to today and Mercedes is racing. Everyone’s racing. You can race anything at all if you set up a class for it, including these cruiser twins not designed for racing. Where was the fan base for road racing pickup trucks before they started doing it? People race everything because of the competitive urge and I think there are people in HD and all of the other companies that would love to see their engines dominate a class like this. If they got behind it, you don’t think customers would follow? I think there’s huge potential.
Would they eventually build a sportbike like a Buell based on a cruiser engine? Hmm … think of the possibilities with that one.
hoyt says
I’m in !
People make a direct connection to the engine of any motor vehicle. Cruiser consumers could be given info. about the cruiser’s street manners, style, accesories, etc. AND the bike’s engine could be hailed as having the durability and performance to win the “Torque Racing Series”.
Yamaha didn’t build the MT-01 for nothing – they built it because of the intense response it received at the convention….the response was there because many of us prefer the torque, sound, & look of a big twin for the street. Their final product should have been better. It is too large. I’ve read they experimented with shoe-horning the Star engine into an R1 chassis. If the final product had been somewhere in the middle of those extremes it would have been a better sales success. This cruiser class could help with that development….
This race series exposure could extend the huge custom motorcycling scene before it goes flat (there’s only so many flamed jobs for $50k that can keep that segment alive). Build custom sportbikes and custom standards with these engines and watch the OEMs start producing some very street friendly, stylish bikes that can be ridden by people into their 70’s.
Take the Rat’s Hole custom bike show to the Speedway in-field so there’s a better connection to the race and the various street applications.
On another note…I am anxious to read about the performance of the M109 from Suzuki….biggest bore of any mass produced vehicle (auto or bike) but with a rev happy shorter stroke. Put that in a sport chassis.
kneeslider says
Another point, the lead time for this series would be minimal. You don’t have to wait for the Japanese companies to put a streetbike like a Buell in their showrooms, just form the class based on the engines and turn builders loose. We could see racing next year.
Also, to the idea of people connecting to the engines themselves, think of the “That thing got a Hemi?” commercials. Maybe we would see memorable names for engines again, the knucklehead, shovelhead idea but on a more up to date level.
C. J. Luke, III says
Just to clarify my position: If any manufacturer wants to compete in the Formula Extreme class…then they need to satisfy the requirements of that class.
If you could establish a class for the “cruiser v twins” then that would be a good thing…I am just not sure that the current “cruiser v twin” crowd would support it.
You shouldn’t let Buel into the Formula Extreme class with a monster v twin. That is kind of like dressing Tiger Woods up in a skirt and wig, and letting him compete in the LPGA.
aaron says
just in case people have been thinking I’m anti buell, here’s a comment to make them think twice.
buell’s rock. the frame design, the only factory perimiter disc, badass styling that’s bad enough to turn off half the potential orange-and-black spillover customers.
but sticking so many freebie clauses in the rulebook is a bit much. what’s worse is the rulebook has been stretched beyond any reasonable interpretations of these leniant rules. if the xbrr was streetbike based and had bodywork that would meet every other race organizations standards, I’d have no problem. honda has likely made more than 50 RC211V motorcycles…does that homologate them? if not in formula xtreme due to engine size, then why not superbikes? and could you imagine if the british superbike series allowed for turbocharging on production based triples of no more than 700cc’s? or Italy giving a displacement break to companies with names that end with uzzi, gusta, enelli, averda, and ucati?
hoyt says
Within the Buell website, the XBRR spec sheets states:
“Combustion Chamber Design: Bathtub/Hemi”
So, I guess it is a Hemi of some sort.
All of the dialogue related to this discussion point to a few things…
The US race fans are craving for better racing in various aspects:
– more Moto GP
– stop the AMA rule catering
– better tracks (more like Barber & Laguna Seca)
– a competitive, American made sportbike that is track-ready & can be purchased within reason.
Why is an American-made bike missing? If Buell is interested in road racing, why are H-D and Buell not working on the VR1000 again?
Awhile ago (while the VR1000 was still alive), I read in a moto magazine that H-D hired a new manager to rejuvenate the project. Then, it seemed a month later, H-D shelved the entire project. I don’t get it. The US has the resources, talent, and knowledge to create this bike….and most of all, it has the market. If the bike proves itself, there would be many riders switching, largely in part because it’s been a long wait. Buells are very cool and great for the street, but a road racer is missing for the current race series.
Victory/Polaris, time to step in? I bet they could interest Dr. Robin Tuluie in an American racebike project and expand your line-up at the same time.
http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/issues/apr00/tularis.htm
Moto Czysz is onto something, but what will the price be for the street version? Will their bikes be so exclusively priced that they’re not really an option except for a small %?
It is time……
Italy has 3 track-ready options (aprilia, ducati, mv agusta). Plus, Moto Morini & Guzzi.
Japan has 4
Germany 2 (not track ready for all types of racing, but high performing options)
England 1
aaron says
hoyt – don’t forget italy also has benelli and bimota too! if laverda actually builds the sfc you’ll have another for the list…
malaysa has one (kinda) – the foggy-petronas
austria will likely have one soon – (the ktm rc8)
the us has several attempts going right now: fisher, motocysz, roehr…
for those interested:
http://www.fischer1.com/
http://www.motoczysz.com
http://www.roehrmotorcycles.com/
the fischer looks to be a reasonable price, the roehr looks to be expensive, but 999s expensive , not Poggipolini/ncr expensive or the likely price for a motoszysz
I recently heard that robin tulie is in europe working on the renault F1 team…
Glover says
If I were Harley/Buell I would be ashamed of myself to even enter a race with a bike with twice the displacement of the other entrants. What a joke!
If they want to race they should just form a racing league like the AHDRA. That way they will be sure to win.
hoyt says
I suppose the pressure is on for Buell to win, eh?
Thanks Aaron, I was trying to remember the Roehr bike.
Haven’t heard anything new from Fischer. [?]
Do all the Kneeslider readers agree an American track-ready, production sportbike is long overdue? I’m anxious to see the Moto C go into production, but there’s gotta be a bike within reach (price-wise). Anything over 20 grand is too much when Japan’s performance is under $13,000 & Italian performance is under $17,000
Mad Scientist Matt says
Hoyt, I’d definitely like to see a production Tul-Aris, too. That thing seems to out-Buell the Buells when it comes to quirky engineering, but looks like it has a much better shot at competing with Japanese superbikes on their own turf.