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The Kneeslider

Doers Builders and Positive People

TTXGP Feet Forward Electric Motorcycle Design

By Paul Crowe

TTXGP feet forward electric motorcycle design
TTXGP feet forward electric motorcycle design

Royce Creasey did this feet forward electric motorcycle design study for sponsors planning to back him in the carbon free TTXGP race scheduled for June. The bike has 330 pounds of Li-ion Phosphate batteries powering a twin rotor electric motor. According to Royce, the power output would be about 100 horsepower with anticipated top speeds close to 200 mph.

The sponsors backed out and now he’s left with a neat design but no money to build the bike. As he says, “That’s racing.”

Feet forward designs have an enthusiastic but relatively small following. They seem to be very easily adaptable to extensive streamlining, which, you might think is just the thing for an electric race, but with more conventional electric motorcycles promising race capable performance, maybe the advantage isn’t sufficient to attract sponsors.

Interesting concept, though. Perhaps if a really long distance electric endurance race comes up we’ll see more bikes like this where the slippery aerodynamics extend the range over a more conventional design.

Thanks for the tip, Bob!

Link: FFWeb
Related: EV-0-RR
Related: Mission One

Posted on March 23, 2009 Filed Under: Electric motorcycles, Motorcycle Builders, Motorcycle Design, Motorcycle Racing


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Comments

  1. Jim says

    March 23, 2009 at 9:41 am

    For me, feet forward MC have the same appeal as 3 wheeled cars, interesting but the benefits result in far too many compromises.
    – A longer bike is less maneuverable,
    – Where would a passenger sit?
    – How would luggage be mounted?
    – Your butt now takes all the bumps that can’t be absorbed by the suspension, rather than using your legs as shock absorbers.
    – Sitting below the fender line of most cars you lose visibility, both seeing and being seen.

    Interesting, but no.
    –

  2. PaulN says

    March 23, 2009 at 10:19 am

    Feet forward motorcycles and recumbant bicycles seem to attract the same kind of people. Recumbant riders that I know love their bikes and rave about efficiency, comfort, etc. To me, they just look weird.

    I personally don’t get it. Yes, I know they are more efficient, and probably handle nice, have better luggage capacity, better weather protection and what not, but I just can’t get into them.

  3. Insideous says

    March 23, 2009 at 10:21 am

    FIM and the ACU would not allow this particular design to race. Just look at the aerodynamic regulations, wheel covering, and width requirements that is considered standard for their racing which is probably the reason that the backers dropped him. Afterall, why back someone for a race if it will be denied right off the bat and can only sit pretty on the sidelines. This is another example of a designer coming up with a great model on paper, but failing to do his homework for the intended audience.

    Overall, I agree with the previous poster that it is an interesting design.

  4. Wave says

    March 23, 2009 at 10:53 am

    This looks like a very interesting design, although the body shape and seating position has been done before. I think a design such as this would be ideally suited to a 3-wheeled set-up, as used in the Piaggio MP-3. After all, if you’ve got your feet up that high and partially inside the bodywork, removing the need to balance at traffic lights and at low speeds suddenly seems almost necessary.

    As other posters have commented though, whilst this design offers superior aerodynamic performance, the practical real-world application, and thus the potential market, for such a machine is extremely limited. As a result, it is unattractive as a business proposition. The only niche where I can see this configuration of bike fitting into is long-distance high-speed touring. The fact that you are limited to touring one-up with no luggage and within the range of your batteries is rather inconvenient.

  5. pabs says

    March 23, 2009 at 11:41 am

    royce creasy from bike magazine back in the late seventies ?! damn i love that boy

  6. taxman says

    March 23, 2009 at 12:10 pm

    i’m a fan of the feet forward style. i don’t think it will ever replace regular bikes. but just like in bicycles it will simply be another option that will attract some people. this one does look good imho

  7. jr says

    March 23, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    I think this is the way to go forward with motorcycle aeros.

    I agree with Wave in that considering some kind of system like the MP-3 would be a good idea, since it looks kind of tricky to balance this at a stop. On a regular bike you come to a stop and your feet are already lined up to go straight down, with this, you have to flex your abs and lift your legs up and out of the bodywork to balance (and what a weight to balance!)

    This shape does cater well to storage space, if it’s not all taken up by batteries.

    I wonder if it will catch on

  8. Blair says

    March 23, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    Hmm, i wonder what it would be like to ride compared to a standard bike? Is it a disadvantage to not be able to swing your weight to one side or the other? Any recumbent riders out there care to illuminate us?

  9. boxerfanatic says

    March 23, 2009 at 3:29 pm

    Am I the only one who sees the obvious problem?

    Encasement. It looks like it is open enough to wriggle and wrangle yourself into and out of, but it doesn’t look easy. Nowhere near as easy as a recumbent bicycle, which does not encase the legs like that.

    The same encasement traps the legs from quick prop-up duty… I see no outriggers, or anything to keep this thing from tipping over at a stop, if one can’t instantly use one’s feet for that, and I mean pretty much instantly.

    If this had leaning front suspension and two front wheels like the HD patent, or the V-Max tilting suspension project, with the feet-forward layout, that seems like a more stable platform that won’t just flop over like a fish on land.

  10. nobody says

    March 23, 2009 at 5:02 pm

    Last time I was at a motorcycle race, none of the racers had to:

    Carry passengers.
    Stand for bumps (unless running over other riders).
    Carry luggage.
    Worry about stop & go tipping over problems.
    Worry about maneuverability (ever read the GP rules regarding minimum steering degrees? It is very low).
    Worry about cars seeing them.

    The TTxGP has more progressive rules than the FIM now. Not progressive enough, in my opinion, but a step in the right direction.

    Do GP cars look anything like street cars? NO. GP bikes don’t need to look like street bikes, either.

  11. les537 says

    March 23, 2009 at 5:59 pm

    Looks like it might work in a straight line. What happens when it’s time to turn at speed?

    Looks like a death trap as well. The sides look like perfect locking slots for your race boot. So your upper body would he hanging out flopping around while the bike started tumbling down the road. Ouch o-o

  12. FREEMAN says

    March 23, 2009 at 6:27 pm

    How’s he gonna give a victory wheelie in that thing?

  13. JC says

    March 23, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    Motorcycle streamliners running at the Bonneville salt flats have high incident rates of ending up on their side, and only run in very low wind conditions. Sure it’s a slippery and varying surface, but this is basically a streamliner without the benefit of the safety equipment and roll bar.

    There is no reason one couldn’t achieve this low frontal area and profile by using really low mounted clip on bars, or going to a leading link suspension or center hub steering, both of which are proven and can achieve lower frontal area. Going electric allows you to place the motors and fuel tanks in places you couldn’t on a gasoline powered bike, so you could perhaps lower the bike more than with a gas powered bike.

  14. "W" says

    March 23, 2009 at 9:57 pm

    This makes me think of Tron.

  15. JH says

    March 24, 2009 at 11:18 am

    @Jim; longer bike (normally also meaning a longer wheelbase) doesn’t necessarily mean less maneuverable. When the CoG is really low (which normally is the case with these bikes) then it can be really maneuverable; just ask Tony Foale about his experiences.

  16. james sweeny says

    March 25, 2009 at 5:43 pm

    Until this design can be mass produced it will never see the light of day, like most new ideas.
    It is a concept that works, but because it looks unusual, something most motorcyclists frown upon, it will have a hard time being brought to market.
    I used to think the Smart car was ridiculous, now I can’t wait to have one. It may not be to everyone’s taste, but like Goldwings, there is a niche market for it.

    Remember, You’re Unique, Like Everybody Else

  17. steve says

    March 26, 2009 at 9:54 am

    When I see these type of designs, I think about what happens if you need to bail out. You can’t.You’re basically going to be a passenger if it takes a knock.
    Steve

  18. JC says

    March 26, 2009 at 9:57 am

    “I used to think the Smart car was ridiculous, now I can’t wait to have one.”

    Costs more than a many other compact cars, with less utility, and marginally better mileage, what could be ridiculous about that?

  19. james sweeny says

    March 26, 2009 at 7:33 pm

    Costs more than a many other compact cars, with less utility, and marginally better mileage, what could be ridiculous about that?
    IT LOOKS TOO COOL!! JC
    Like the new Vmax-ridiculous horse power, no storage space, a pig around corners but I want one!
    Of course my Smart car would be Busa engined.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNgKdnWRZpU

  20. Jorge PerezVelasco says

    April 26, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    I find the comments on practicality interesting. Why do people ride motor cycles that cost more than autos? As far as concerns about safety, how exactly do you safely “bail out” of a motorcycle at 100 MPH? I can’t bail out of my auto, does that make it less safe than my bike?.

    One thing is certain and the comments confirm this: Motorcycle design is based on subjective preferences such as style and looks. It is not based on engineering superiority. Motor bikes are designed to match racing bikes and racing bikes just like racing sailboats or racing bicycles are designed to follow arbitrary rules made by the racing associations.

    I think this design is the ultimate in fast efficient personal transportation. When oil gets up to $150 per barrel we should consider this bike design.

  21. nawitus says

    April 26, 2009 at 5:00 pm

    The ‘Ecomobile’ Feet Forward bike is the best design to this day. I wish they were cheaper. It’s a fully enclosed cabin for 2 persons too.. You don’t have to put your feet down (since it sfully enclosed that would be impossible too), there’s 2 extra wheels that stabilize the bike at speeds like less than few km/h.

  22. Gary Rees says

    June 3, 2009 at 8:24 pm

    Go to Royce Creasey’s web site and learn about Feet Forward motorcycles.
    “…. low-CG FF two-wheelers offer a standard of comfort, handling, safety and economy which is unavailable in any other two-wheelers. ”

    http://www.oesten-creasey.eu/hightech/feetfirs.htm#feet first

    I have ridden thousands of miles on a recumbent motorcycle and I will not go back to riding one of those hideously uncomfortable, unstable, uneconomical ‘conventional’ motorcycles.

  23. DAVID PANOZ says

    July 8, 2010 at 10:49 pm

    Recumbant motorcycle is alive and it is a great ride.

  24. jerry dycus says

    August 14, 2010 at 11:03 pm

    It’s a RACE bike guys!! It’s designed to win EV races on a road course and I’d bet it will win unless others do like it but better. Since it will have much lower drag at top speed, it will go faster, farther on the same battery pack.

    I’m building something similar to the Ecomobile but an aero cabin EV MC like their X-Prize model. Because it is so much more aerodynamic, it goes 80mph for 80-100 miles on a fairly small battery pack.

  25. Andyj says

    September 24, 2010 at 5:39 am

    Don’t get me wrong. I’m making a feet forward streamliner. I’m all for them for what they offer in terms of efficiency (speed and mpg), Extreme mileage all weather comfort. It will be my third leg between my car and my bike.

    The problem with this design is the total lack of weight shifting ability for racing.
    As you know, getting ones knee down adds drag to the inside of the corner. It also holds the bike down at speed while moving the CG appropriately to hold the bike more upright. Its a no-brainer for racing.

    The slots for the legs on this bike are relevant for what? They are in no position to steady yourself or enter/exit from. A screen would aid slipstreaming and what’s with that front end? If the front wheel was covered and the lower body acted like an inverted wing it might work, a little.

    The whole bodywork is too high sided. Any side winds will be a killer. I would not ride it 🙁

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