Over 2 years ago, I wondered about the possibility of racing the big V-twin engines normally found in cruisers, whether from Harley Davidson or any of the various metric brands. My thought was to call it “Cruiser Twins” because the engine had to be available in a cruiser to qualify. Take the big twin, wrap a road racing frame around it and see what happens. We’ve had a lot of articles on the subject since then and covered a number of builders who would be naturals to take part. Quite a few regulars here at The Kneeslider are VERY interested.
Just got an email from Bob Horn who pointed out the column by Kevin Cameron in the July 2008 Cycle World. Kevin says he’s had the idea for some time, too, and he notes the huge expense to field a racing engine while an enormous big twin aftermarket is practically begging to be used for something besides making powerful engines for show bikes. Kevin also points out it might generate interest from the “lifestyle” crowd that shows up at Bike Week but never makes it to the track. If they saw race bikes ostensibly related to what they ride, you might see a lot of new ticket sales. Think, too, of much lower cost racing, at least compared to what it takes now and the sound of high horsepower big twins ridden in anger. Cool!
Re-read my cruiser twins post because the post and comments cover a lot of territory I don’t need to repeat here, but there are some rumors around that a national level class is at least a possibility. Now wouldn’t that be interesting?
Maybe now this makes sense, … just a thought.
kim scholer says
Nice idea, but even better if a set of rules could be made so most of the original running gear was to be used – in particular the frames, seats, tanks and such.
Either that or a one-brand, one-model race series based on the Honda Goldwing. You can use a compressor if you carry a passenger og tow a trailer etc. etc.
hoyt says
Daytona Bike Week could help with this endeavor. The last time I was there (4 or 5 yrs ago already), there seemed to be racing crowds and then custom bike crowds…..
Attendance at the racing events didn’t seem to reach its potential, especially considering the number of moto people in the area. At the same time, there has been a proliferation of custom bike shows popping up everywhere during that week. People are complaining about not being able to attend each bike show because there are too many.
Why not consolidate these custom Big Twin shows and hold the event at the Speedway? Tickets could be priced to get you into the racing events and custom shows.
Sure, there would need to be some re-organizing of the grounds since the OEMs take up a lot of the Speedway grounds, but it can be done while adding retail at the custom bike shows (food & bev, parts, etc.)
With the above racing series, the custom bike scene can really start moving into various directions.
Racing is fun*, whether you are at the highest performance level or at the local level on “run what you brung”. The crowd potential is significant because they can connect to the power plant.
I’m sure S&S would be glad to promote the X-Wedge with this series.
*Good going Rossi with your new helmet design. 🙂
ROHORN says
My 2 cents:
Run the 5500 rpm limit Kevin suggests – not that hard to enforce.
NO production frames or bodywork – period. No bodywork below the line drawn between the axles – with the engines exposed like the rider. All electrickery has to be available and on the market.
Not much else…..
In other words, a grassroots GP BT class How about a 3 wheel BT class?
2010?
BJShredder says
Didn’t we try this already? BBoz was pretty quick on them Sporty’s.
Cheap … NOT.
B.J. Worsham
ROHORN says
This would have absolutely nothing to do with the old 883 class, except the basic engine configuration – I hope.
Cheap? I’m guessing it would compare to the cost of building the stereotypical custom chopper – plenty of people seem to have the money for that – and still do. Ever price a new racebike prepped just for entry level Superbike – you know, that class intended for production bikes?
There are lots of opportunities to race an SV650 – as well there should be. There are NO classes for the above – nevermind that the builders and enthusiasts are there. Given the opportunity, I wonder if they will put their/sponsor’s money where their mouths are.
Loomis says
If they really want cheap, they could race suzuki savages…aka boulevard S40s!
Seriously though…a harley sportster 883 is pretty reasonable. If they wanted to really cheapen it down to basement levels, they could restrict the race to the older 4speed chain drive evolution sportster motors.
Air cooled pushrod motors are pretty hard to beat for cheap/simple rebuilds too. You can do a rebore job without even pulling the motor. Plus, there’s only one carburetor, two cylinders, and 4 valves total.
The Hyosung GT650 comes to mind too, for cheapness.
WRXer says
If you look at the car race world, the most effective manufacturer series, like Spec Miata, have two things in common:
1. A large stockpile of cheap used vehicles that can be used on the track. Miata certainly has that.
2. Very limited alterations from stock. Changes are typically spec’d by the manufacturer as a kit.
Harley certainly has #1, and with their deep aftersales catalog, the could easily have #2. What do you really need? Belly pan (to keep oil of the track, like Ahrma), high pipe, race brake pads and tires. Remove all lights and mirrors.
B.Case says
I don’t think the motivation behind big twin racing is to offer a cheap form of racing. 450 super singles would be cheaper, and just think of all the stock piles of used dirt bikes.
John says
It really amazes me the responses by some of these people.The suggestion was for Big Twins,Not GoldWings or 450 Hondas or Hyosungs, no one wants to see those stupid things racing.No one is asking any of you to send in money for support. It would be hugely succesful to the annoyance of all the Harley hateing elitist snobs.
taxman says
John,
obviously people do want to see them race if they are posting about them in a race oriented topic. having owned both sportbikes and Harleys i have to say that the least accepting of outsiders and the most elitist of attitudes comes from the Harley crowd (not all harley owners are bad). that being said
———————————————–
as far as big twin racing, i think that is a great idea. i don’t particularly feel that it would be cheaper (especially if your allowed to after market frames and such)but i do think that it would fill a small void. it would also bring a whole new crowd to the racetrack.
i’m generalizing a little bit here but bare with me. MANY big twin owners are also NASCAR fans. i can’t say how many times i’ve seen a pick-up truck that has a HD sticker on one side and a sticker of there favorite drivers number on the other. NASCAR is huge. i think a big part of why NASCAR is the most popular racing in the US is because “it’s american made racing”. thats my bosses favorite line. now if a series was started and given more than half a chance of success i think it would be quite popular with many nascar fans and HD fans watching. when a softail owner can turn on the speed channel and watch a race where the guy in 2nd place has the same engine in his bike that he has he’ll get excited. then when the infomercial comes on where they are talking about what aftermarket products he’s using to gun for 1st that guy with the softtail will pick up the phone and order whatever it is he feels he needs
Sean says
Last year they tried to race a Yamaha MT-01 in the national “Thunder” class up here in Canada. The class was for air cooled twins not to exceed a certain hp/weight ratio, and as I recall the MT-01 wasn’t very successful against other air cooled twins like BMWs, Buells, etc.
A race class using cruiser engines would most certainly be interesting to watch/hear and would be good for fans, etc. but there is no way a class that requires custom, limited production, frames and suspensions could ever be “cheap”. The racing would also end up quite boring I would imagine, with everything for the bike being so custom made, the difference in performance from one bike to the next would be so huge that close, competitive racing wouldn’t happen.
Interesting concept, but in practice I don’t see how it could ever happen unless you had a spec chassis to work from, and how do you have a spec chassis that accomodates a gamut of different engines from different manufacturer’s…
kneeslider says
There wasn’t any suggestion of “cheap” in the post, just less expensive than developing a new superbike engine to run at competitive levels and also to take advantage of all of the big twin performance parts already available from lots of sources but usually used for high power chopper engines. Why not race them instead?
taxman makes the point well about bringing in more fans and as ROHORN points out, all of these other bikes, everyone keeps suggesting, already have classes to race in. We’re suggesting a new class for an engine type not currently road racing that could create a little excitement in a new group of racing fans.
For everyone who thinks this is a crazy idea, fine, don’t watch or participate. But there’s a good chance a lot of people would get a kick out of this, people who have no interest in watching Gixxers and Ninjas run around the track because they don’t buy them or ride them.
Ry says
I think this is a great Idea! Imagine all of the new business in aftermarket components it would generate. Maybe a new line of sport bikes for street from the manufacturers with the BIG twins. I don’t care what you like to ride, that would be sweet!
Sean says
I don’t think it’s a crazy idea, I just think that it would make for boring racing. If you have a class where rules are really loose, you end up with Team A’s riders neck and neck and 2 seconds ahead of Team B’s riders, who are 2 seconds ahead of Team C’s riders etc. usually in the order of whichever team has the most dollars. Not very competitive and not very exciting. On the other hand if you start making the rules really tight, then your teams can’t take advantage of the huge aftermarket support or the thick parts catalog because you can only run a certain limited amount of performance parts. As the choices then become limited, the cost of making engine A just that tiny bit faster than engine B comes down to painstaking time and labour and experience from a reputable engine builder. Next thing you know your engine program costs as much (or probably more) than a competitive Superbike effort for example. But then hey wait you still have to tackle a one off custom chassis, which faces the same rules vs. cost problems as previously mentioned.
The only way to have a class like that work such that the racing can still be competitive is to have crushingly detailed rules that are strictly enforced whereby you end up with an entire field of bikes that are indistinguishable from one to the next save for the logo on the tank. Very NASCAR-esque… which isn’t a bad thing.
The only problem is getting enough people to put up enough cash to fund NASCAR-equivalent racing programs, but without the long heritage and sustained/known cash flow generation which NASCAR has enjoyed for decades.
It would be a huge undertaking to get off the ground, but it would certainly be interesting if someone could get it to happen. I’d watch it!
B.Case says
I think Sean has a good point on #15. This is the reason I mentioned the proposed 450 Super Singles, because of all the strict guidelines that will be enforced to provide competitive racing and low cost of entry.
Now, I’m all for a big twin racing effort, and some of the regulars on the ‘slider may recall my interest in a big twin track day at Barber. I’d still like to do it if I ever get my Wraith I purchased. No sense for me to start talkin’ smack now, because I don’t have the bike!
But I do kind of agree, without a spec engine, spec chassis, etc., the participants might be all over the place. If you let the class be open to all sorts of custom big twin racers, I think it would become nothing more than a very expensive bike show.
But if you have a big twin racer, you can race it right now in AHRMA Battle of Twins or Sound of Thunder classes. So my suggestion is to just start a club that travels to these specific already-sanctioned events rather than trying to create a whole new league or separate event.
B.Case says
Here you go, taken from http://www.ahrma.org:
10.11 BATTLE OF TWINS®
10.11.1 Machine eligibility: All competition classes are intended for two-cylinder motorcycles
only. All classes may be run together and scored separately as determined by the number
of entries and track conditions. Classes include (see section 9.8 for additional mechanical
requirements):
a) FORMULA 3: Pushrod OHV machines to 1000cc, OHC 2- or 3-valve to 800cc, OHC
liquid-cooled 4-valve to 650cc. Pushrod OHV machines over 900cc must run under
Supersport specifications (see (9.8.1). Suzuki SV650, Kawasaki 650R and Buell
XB9R limited to Supersport specifications (see 9.8.1); otherwise must compete in F-2.
Triumph Thruxtons may compete under the current Triumph Thruxton Cup Challenge
restrictions (see www. ahrma. org/ rulebook).
b) FORMULA 2: Pushrod OHV machines to 1250cc, liquid-cooled OHC to 750cc, air-cooled
2-valve OHC to 1000cc and air-cooled 4-valve to 1000cc. Ducati 748 is limited
to Supersport specifications (see 9.8.1); otherwise must compete in F-1.The Ducati
749 4-valve water-cooled must race in F-1.
c) FORMULA 1: No displacement limits. Engine modifications are unlimited, with the following
exception: water-cooled 4-valve twins over 900cc are limited to Supersport
specifications (see 9.8.1) and must be U. S. road legal production models only.
d) OPEN TWO-STROKE: Air-cooled two-stroke motorcycles to 500cc; water-cooled two-strokes
with tubular frame to 400cc; and modern 250cc GP type machines.
10.13 SOUND OF THUNDER®
10.13.1 SOUND OF THUNDER® is open to the following types of machines with these restrictions:
a) Four-stroke singles of any displacement.
b) Four-stroke twins of any displacement.
c) Three-cylinder machines to 1000cc.
d) Twin-rotor rotary engines.
e) Turbo-charging or supercharging permitted only on single-cylinder machines.
f) Engines and frames may be of any origin.
g) All machines must pass technical inspection according to sections 3.3, 9.3, 9.5 and 9.8.
todd says
I think there already was a race series like this. It’s called Speedway. Speedway is like NASCAR with Harleys. I think it lost favor with the general US fan because Yamaha started taking over and Harley wasn’t doing much to stop it. I don’t know that Harley would want to do much to support another series that competes against other manufacturers.
If it should be road racing, I would suggest a Sporster Spec race. Limit it to stock frames with open suspension mods, a 883 class and a 1200 class. Maybe open it up to other brands so that Bonnevilles would be able to compete in the 883 class but what would keep it from becoming another Ducati race?
-todd
B.Case says
What about AMA Flat Track? Harley races there. No surprise, they’re winning. Although, it seems like the real competition happens about 15 seconds back, between the teams who can’t afford to run traction control.
hoyt says
Are the last few posts making things more complicated than is necessary? The posts suggested there are “loose” rules while also getting off topic – Sportster engines and frames?
I’m not downplaying the need to have an organized set of rules and I’m not naive to think a competitive, fun to watch, series would take some good decisions….but, this series is about combining custom building with racing. Racing which uses engines (and know-how) that are extremely plentiful.
It’s about continuing the huge interest and the aftermarket businesses that have risen in the last 15 years, while adding new directions.
I continue to be impressed with the numbers of people involved in the Big Twin market (consumers, part suppliers, builders)
Sure there are loads of Big Twin engines of various sizes and hp/torque figures. So what? How about a LeMans-style race where you have multiple classes of Big Twins going at it together? Just as every custom shop has customers wanting various engine sizes for their custom choppers, you don’t want to pigeon-hole the Big Twin Racer into a size do you? Have a range.
As with all racing, it will come down to the rider, chassis, weight reduction and reliable motor. But in the Custom Big Twin Race series, it will be done in a unique more tangible way
“Big Twin Racer” – that sounds familiar, eh Curt?
John says
Todds last comment showed ignorance on the subject. Speedway is not like Nascar and they don’t race Harleys, they run single cyl. Jawas and some other brands around a very short oval.
kneeslider says
You guys have me scratching my head, why all the resistance to the idea of racing some obviously powerful big twins? If you each have some preferred form of racing you enjoy, great! This idea is to take advantage of these already existing engines to spread the appeal of racing to new fans who could support racing overall.
Many of you are focusing your resistance on Harley. Have you been paying attention to the huge number of non Harley big twins out there? Not just aftermarket companies like S&S, how about Yamaha, Kawasaki, Honda and Suzuki?
AHMRA? The “H” in there is for historic, we’re suggesting currently manufactured big twins using current aftermarket parts anyone can buy.
Why bring up 450 singles or Sportsters or anything else? I like those 450 singles and Sportsters, but this discussion is about all of the big twin engines the aftermarket has been building up for years and asking, “Hey, how about racing these things?”
Some folks have one idea about one right way and try to force everything to fit. Relax! Have some fun! Entertain new possibilities.
Sean says
I don’t think anybody is resisting the idea, just trying to figure out how you would structure that kind of a class. The toughest thing about ANY non-spec racing class is to set it up in such a way that you can have as wide a range of bikes eligible to compete as possible, but at the same time make it so that there’s no one single combination that’s so far superior to everything else that it makes the racing boring to watch.
If the class is supposed to be primarily about the engine, you need to structure the rules so that everyone is riding a chassis that’s as closely matched to the next guy as possible.
I don’t know enough about all the various cruiser platforms to know if the engines from all the major manufacturers are for the most part similarly mounted in the frame, with similar drive, and similar dimensions? If that were the case, then a spec chassis makes sense, maybe have an intermediate set of adapter plates to suit each different manufacturers’ engines, and have the whole rest of the bike basically “spec”. That would potentially make things a lot cheaper too if you had a pre-negotiated price with a sole-source provider for the whole rest of the bike, for example, you pay X dollars to enter the class and for that fee you get a fully complete rolling chassis. That way you just drop in your powerplant, set up your suspension, and you’re off to the races.
That should also make it a lot easier to keep the class competitive for everyone too, since it would take a significant amount of variables out of the equation.
ROHORN says
“….make it so that there’s no one single combination that’s so far superior to everything else that it makes the racing boring to watch.”
“…you need to structure the rules so that everyone is riding a chassis that’s as closely matched to the next guy as possible.”
What’s the difference? BOTH are boring as hell.
Except for comments 20/21/22 (which are way more eloquent and polite than what I want to say), it is brutally obvious that the rest don’t have a clue about “Builder’s Class” racing is all about – and a lot more that isn’t worth mentioning. The USA hasn’t seen a good builder’s class since the heyday of BOTT. You want to see more bikes like the Britten? That’s how they happen.
As far as expense goes, one could build a racer for FAR less than the price of buying, say, a Wraith, Ecosse, etc… And there are enough people out there who can build them and race them. Get out of the consumer product/NASCAR/”If I can’t buy it then it doesn’t matter” mental staitjacket, folks!
Did anyone actually read the article in CW – yet?
hoyt says
I think chassis variation is a critical piece to this series.
The big twin engine chassis will vary widely due to the drivetrain. Look at Gregg’s Customs Helion…. the gear-driven primary on the Yamaha is probably the most compact on the market, including the Ecosse & Confederate.
Look at Victory’s big twin (personal favorite*)…It is a gear-driven primary in a unit-construction case with the motor (opens up diverse chassis options)
Custom chassis are key to this series. I think you are still taking this too seriously and missing the point of the class. It is as much about fun-to-watch racing as it is about checking out the diversity of chassis and overall builds…the latter point ties-in with the chopper bike shows and therefore masses of people.
These engines are good to look at as well as ride. (note: Triumph triplets, Austrian & Italian twins, Asian quadruplets are nice to look at too but typically aren’t naked and air-cooled)
Another way to think of it is – many of the fans of this class might pay equal attention (or more) to looking at the bikes in the paddock (before and after a race) as they do with who won the race. Sure, winning is still part of the puzzle, but not disproportionately as in the classes you’ve been watching to-date.
* I had a chance to ride my brother’s Victory last month. What a motor! Short-shifting that motor threw me back into the seat between 2nd and 3rd gears, and I was leaned forward ready for it. Imagine that motor being put into a sportier chassis with lighter wheels and dropping about 250 overall pounds.
As Kevin Cameron has said in his article about the S&S X-Wedge….”Many a sportbike rider has been humbled by the rapid accelearation of Big Twins in the 100-inch-and-up category. Sportbike engines are optimized to fill moderate-sized cylinders with extreme rapidity. Elephant Vees fill much larger cylinders at a more leisurely pace. Air & gasoline don’t much care which it is. You pick.” – CW January 2007
Sean says
I guess I’m biased. As a 600 racer, I like to know that when I win a race, it’s because I’m a better rider than the guy next to me on the track, knowing that his bike may bit a bit better or worse than mine, but that at the end of the day, it’s pretty darned close.
I never really looked at it from the builder’s point of view where at the end of the day he can stand back and say that the bike he built was so much better than the next guy’s and that’s why he (his rider) won.
You’re right, I’ve never been exposed to “Builder’s Class” racing. I’ve only ever looked at rider vs. rider and not bike vs. bike. It’s definetely a different point of view and one that I’m not used to, especially so because I only see it from the rider’s shoes every weekend.
But how do you make sure that builder’s can’t just buy themselves championships? Or is that the point of a builder’s class? He whom hath the deepest pockets and can spend the most time in R&D wins? Or like hoyt said – is it even about winning at all? Or is it about making the coolest bike in the paddock, and oh by the way they’re going to race later if you’re still around?
Sorry if it sounds stupid, I’m not trying to be an ass I’m trying to “get it”…
todd says
Sorry, I meant flat track, not speedway. Just shootin’ from the hip since I think a “big twin” race series would be just as boring as any other series; no more, no less. Excitement is in the competition and the personalities, not the bikes.
-todd
hoyt says
It’s not all black and white. This class will still require rider skill to win. It will also require builder skill. But, it doesn’t necessarily require loads of cash like NASCAR has become. (very little one-car teams now)
Remember, NASCAR was very much grass roots when it started. Grass roots auto racing still remains. For example, “Late Model” dirt racing.
Take a look at the Confederate Wraith. Lots of great machining, skill, & thought went into that bike, including lots of cash.
Within the Kneeslider and my blog are other examples….
Look at Curt Winter’s black bike, Gregg Des Jardin’s bike, and Mike Cook’s ACR. Lots of great skill and thought went into those bikes. Each of these 3 spent a lot less than Confederate (even factoring out the production setup costs) Nothing wrong with any of those 4 bikes.
Someone could show up to a race with their purchased Wraith and another could show up with their purchased custom from any of the above builders….and, best of all, builders can show up with their own bike.
A rider on each of those bikes would still have to have skill to race to the win.
B.Case says
I read the KC article and thought it was great. But I did wonder why he suggested NHRA drag racing as a model rather than the existing organizations who already pay for time on road courses, not drag strips, such as WERA, CCS, AHRMA, etc. Sorry, though, I thought I was clearer in my comments above but I guess I wasn’t. I am totally FOR this idea and was only trying to cite examples and suggest ways how to do it.
My reason for mentioning AHRMA specifically was because it is a series that is happening right now, and they have several classes that would accept GC’s Hellion, Curt’s BTR, and any other american or metric racers. And it doesn’t have to be historic, the class is open. I happen to think there’s much more of a independent builder mentality at events like these rather than anything under current AMA. Of course, as Cameron suggested, that may change with DMG’s influence.
So my question is, why isn’t there mobs of ‘big twin racers’ trying their bikes out right now at these existing events run by organizations who are already paying for the track, workers, ambulances, insurance, etc? Am I completely out of line for asking that?
Bonneville was also mentioned in the article and I believe it’s a great proving ground for builders, with very little involvement from major manufacturers any more. I love Bonneville, but it’s not a road course, so I think there’s better examples to cite for the idea of ‘big twin racing’.
B.Case says
Thank you hoyt, which further illustrates my point, which is if I had my Wraith in my garage RIGHT NOW, I would be planning on taking it to the AHRMA event at Barber in October to spank the piss out of anyone in that class.
To quote my old friend Max McAllister, “It ain’t braggin’ if you can back it up!”
ROHORN says
Sean,
Thanks for the perspective!
“But how do you make sure that builder’s can’t just buy themselves championships? Or is that the point of a builder’s class? He whom hath the deepest pockets and can spend the most time in R&D wins? Or like hoyt said – is it even about winning at all? Or is it about making the coolest bike in the paddock, and oh by the way they’re going to race later if you’re still around?”
There are no classes where that can’t be said about, even if it means buying the best rider, tuner, or track test time – just like they do in supersport racing. When I look at Supersport, I see a class where one can’t apply any ingenuity, knowledge, cleverness, or anything else beyond what the factory applied. It is that way for a good reason. But the supersports/superbikes are just that – more or less disposable tools which I don’t find very interesting – and an essential part of motorcycle racing is, in my opinion, the motorcycle. And just how deep are the pockets of those who build the supersports? Those are pretty darn deep. Why should ALL the classes favor the DOT approved manufacturers?
The only form of racing where equipment plays no influence is: Running, barefoot and naked. That’s something in which I have little interest….
But why should racing results just favor the youngest/lightest/sharpest rider? Is THAT fair or even desirable? How about rules determining the median synapse speed and requiring younger/sharper riders to take downers and the fat old has-beens to use meth or something? No more winning races to the highest bidder of the fastest rider!!!! And while we are at it, make all the riders weigh the same by adding ballast where genetics and/or eating habits haven’t done so already.
I find it far more satisfying when the bike under me (or, better yet, under a better rider) is there because I designed and built it. I really detest the incremental changes done every design cycle from the manufacturers. I find efforts like the previously mentioned Britten, Tularis, Dr. John’s Guzzis, Commonwealth Racing RS750, The Quantel Cosworth racer, etc… to be vastly more intriguing and worth paying attention to, both during and long after the races. They were indeed, in my opinion, the coolest bikes in the paddock – and they had results to back them up.
Speaking of cool, an essential part of any successful racing program is the show. No show, no attention, no sponsors. Ever notice the contracts of, say, the top finshers in Supersport? Ever notice what those below them get paid? Why invest a boatload of my cash in racing a series where, unless you already have top results, you are NOT getting sponsored? Getting there isn’t cheap. A series where pretty much the entire field will get attention is going to be a lot easier to get sponsored. Guess which gets attention off the track – that unique custom racer that people will go out of their way to see or the supersport, indistinguishable from the rest in the world, except for the cheap nasty paint job, no lights, and number stickers? Sponsors care about that sort of stuff as well.
I really can’t think of any time in motorcycle racing history that bad riders won on superior bikes. History is filled with examples opposite of that. The only cases I’m aware of where someone did kill the class was when Yamaha killed F750 with the TZ750 – and when Ducati killed BOTT with the 851/888. Those were factory efforts, not some guys with deep pockets. I highly doubt a big factory is going to come out with a class killing production big twin racer.
Another way to put it is that I would love to see racing have more to do with the entire talents of the team – and when I know who they are – including the designer, builder, tuner, rider, etc… And I think it is very cool when those tasks are taken on by the same multi-talented people or even person.
Oh yes – there’s also the fact that Supersport is also seems to be about buying a new bike every year to stay competitive. That isn’t my definition of racer centric racing.
That said, I’m not against production based supersport racing – it exists for very good reasons. But there is far more to the motorcycle world than DOT approved consumer product – and I’d like to see that happen.
Not sure that’s anybody else’s perspective, but that’s some of mine.
ROHORN says
Brian,
I think the reason why there aren’t any exotic Big Twin racers in AHRMA – or even the MRA here locally – is that there is no good reason to do so other than for fun. That might be sufficient reason to do so for some, but not for me. In the mean time, I’m messing with an EX500 engine powered custom (little twin racing?) out of my pocket.
I might be wrong, but I don’t think there was a call for a whole new series, but rather an addition to the DMG events. If they have no enthusiasm for it, then I doubt it would ever happen.
aaron says
check out the irving vincents! they won the 2008 AHRMA Battle of the Twins race at daytona this year with a 1600cc racer based on the series c/d shadow…
http://www.irvingvincent.com/
hoyt says
“The only form of racing where equipment plays no influence is: Running, barefoot and naked. That’s something in which I have little interest….”
Wow, was that funny.
Interest? It depends on who you are with and where you are, I guess
John says
A lot of these guys sound like government people,they want to regulate everything,make all racing spec series in the name of fairness,bunch of political correctness crap.600 racing?I wouldn’t watch that if you paid me.I didn’t watch the Indy 500 this year for the same reason.I’m not a hero worshiper,I’m more interested in the machinery.There was time in the 60’s when in 0ne Indy 500 you could see a Turbin motored car,Ford Cosworths,Offenhausers,Buick Turbo V6’s and even a turbo charged inline Rambler 6 cyl.I can’t believe some of you would rather watch a bunch of identical 600’s buzzing around than bikes built by idividuals like Britten,must be real dullards.
B.Case says
“The only form of racing where equipment plays no influence is: Running, barefoot and naked. That’s something in which I have little interest….”
That was funny.
However, Bob, I disagree. I would think that one’s “equipment”, flopping around while running naked, could be a disadvantage depending on how endowed one is. And for females, too, the petite athletic types seem to win every time.
todd says
To me racing is like football and running around bare naked; why sit there and watch when you could be the one out there doing it yourself. It’s much more fun that way…
Maybe one way to keep the racing interesting would be to limit the total cost somehow. Anyone ever remember that race in 2000 where each entrant could only spend $2000 on his car? Innovation is real high when you can’t just buy it.
-todd