Last week, when discussing motorcycle repair and restoration, I was primarily referring to repairs you would do yourself on a small scale, something anyone could do in their home garage and workshop. These types of repair and restoration projects do not require a shop full of high tech tools but simply the knowledge of how to do the work and the willingness to provide the labor. Some basic tools, an air compressor with various attachments and perhaps a basic welder and you’re set.
It shouldn’t be surprising to find repair and restoration of this sort going on in developing countries and being done very well. With many hands available to do the work, skills that can be learned by local craftsmen and low startup costs, you have the basis of a nice little business, maybe even a not so little business.
I have noticed many Vespa and Lambretta scooters on ebay that are absolutely perfect. These scooters are 30 or more years old and they look like they just came off the assembly line, maybe even better than that. When you look at the location of those scooters, many say Vietnam, something which may put off some buyers but if you look a little closer, it gets very interesting.
It turns out, there is a booming scooter restoration business in southeast Asia. With a huge amount of raw material in the form of tired and used scooters and access to brand new replacement parts, manufactured, most likely, in China, these little operations transform the old scooters into brand new 30 year old Vespa and Lambretta scooters.
The rebuild process is extensive, the scooter is completely disassembled down to the very last nut and bolt. The frame and body are stripped of all paint, repairs made to any underlying damage, and then repainted with the latest modern paints. Powder coating is optional in those areas that require the extra durability. Then they attack the polished bits:
We polish or chrome all the metal parts on the scooter. Polishing is a cheaper and more traditional method of restoration (especially for aluminum items) but we can chrome each item as well. All metal fender Crests, Switch Housings, Levers, Choke Knobs, Fuel Rods, etc…will be polished to a brilliant reflective finish.
The engine is disassembled and all worn parts are replaced. In fact, all worn parts throughout the scooter are replaced.
EVERYTHING that is worn or old is replaced. This includes, but is not limited to: Cables, Wiring Loom, Rubber Grommets, Tires, Inner Tubes, Brakes, Switches, Switch Covers, Seat Covers, Seat Frames, Taillights, Headlights, Speedometer Face and Lens, Floor Channels, Endcaps, crankshaft cases and flywheel (12V magneto) and Locks as well as all new exterior parts.
After all of the replacement parts are installed and everything is polished or painted, the whole scooter is reassembled into one beautiful piece. The photos of finished scooters show what appears to be a very nice classic scooter in perfect condition. These companies are primarily set up for export and it seems quite easy to order one of their scooters and have it shipped wherever you happen to be. They also are set up to ship twenty foot containers with 18 scooters anywhere in the world. The prices vary among models and range from $1500 to $2700 at the company I was looking at, plus shipping and registration fees which are not really very high based on the prices from the website. Gets a guy thinking …
If you’re located in an area where scooters are popular, you could start a nice little scooter import business and sell these beauties for a profit. Suppose you’re a college student and you want to learn about international business first hand, order a twenty foot container of scooters and sell them to students all around campus. Perhaps a retirement community wants a nice fleet of scooters, looks like a nice opportunity here. Are you a scooter person and do you know others who like the old Vespas? Pool your cash and get some shipped over. I notice on ebay that several people have obviously already done this and you’ll see these restored scooters offered for sale by individuals and dealers. For those who don’t want to order from Vietnam or aren’t familiar with the import process, these folks have done the work up front, even though it’s not really that difficult.
What’s the downside? These are the old two stroke engines, nothing wrong with that except few potential buyers are familiar with them. There are also some very inexpensive 4 stroke Chinese imports, like the Schwinn, that are in the same low price range and might even be cheaper. These companies say they stand behind their products, and I have no reason to doubt that, but they are in Vietnam which might make initial warranty issues a problem, though, the fact that you even get a warranty on a 30 year old scooter might actually be a plus instead. Most often, you buy an old scooter, you’re on your own. For the most part, these would be more likely sold to potential buyers specifically looking for an old Vespa, not just a scooter, so you would have to be sure, if you were going to sell them, that you had a market. Since they’re already on ebay, one more seller might not stand out much but if you have a local market, too, then you might have something.
The whole issue of product liability always rears its ugly head and, not being a lawyer, I have no idea what applies here or doesn’t. In an ideal world, no one would even go down that road but …
I think this Vespa restoration business is very cool. They can restore these scooters for less than you could do it yourself and sell you one, probably under your own cost. If you’re looking for an old classic Vespa or Lambretta, these might be just the ticket. Interesting.
IMPORTANT UPDATE: We have received some information from a customer of Huy’s Scooter.
Link: Huy’s Scooter in Vietnam
Related articles: Motorcycle Repair and Restoration and Schwinn Scooters
Also see: Vespa Scooters for sale on ebay
Stephen says
Those of us who are familiar with the scooter market and the scooter scene know that to buy vietnamese “restored” bikes is to ask for trouble. There are a couple of exceptions to the rule, but that is the rule.
Just have a look over at http://www.scooterbbs.com and search the archives regarding vietnamese restorations; you might see some photos there that open your eyes. Any given vietnamese-restored scooter is likely to have as much bondo as steel on it, twisted frames, badly welded alloy parts, shims in the engine made of soda cans and any number of other botched-up parts or repair techniques, not to mention the minor but incorrect and ubiquitous yellow rubber kickstand boots (see the blue-and-white lambretta in your article).
As someone who repairs scooters for money, I recommend anyone reading this article to have a look at a couple more sources than the one dealer quoted (for the record I don’t know anything about that particular operation; they may be legit but odds are against it). You might be surprised at the other side of this coin.
Cheers,
Stephen Alexander
Houston, TX
HFCTom says
Dear Kneeslider.com,
I encourage you to have a look at the archives on http://www.scooterbbs.com specifically on the subject of Vietnamese shops performing restorations. You can also try looking at 2strokebuzz.com as well as asking on the TwoStrokeSmoke forum located at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/twostrokesmoke/
Or how about contacting a shop in the states that specializes in repair and restoration of Vintage Vespa scootes? I suggest Scooterworks, one of the larger Vespa parts suppliers in the states (http://www.scooterworks.com)
They are also the parent company of Genuine Scooters, an Indian-built licensed copy of the current Vespa PX150. http://www.genuinescooters.com
What you’re more than likely to find is more than a few unhappy customers and unhappy mechanics who have had the “honor” of working on one of these “restored” Vintage Machines.
They’re sure to tell you all about the frames that are chopped in half, then re-welded together. Worn out, worked over parts that aren’t fit for the recycler. Inferior electrics that fail, plastic that cracks with the lightest use, and seals made from plastics that disintegrate immediately.
As a Motorcycle and Scooter mechanic specializing in Scooter repair & restoration (I work on pretty much everything from 50cc to 2000cc) I can give you more than a few stories of the nightmares these piles have brought on, and encourage you to wipe this whole article from your website lest more unfortunate potential Vespa victims…I mean owners, follow your advice and purchase one of these deathtraps from Ebay.
Oh, and as a link to this article has found its way onto Scooterbbs.com, you might want to prepare yourself for the barrage of angry scooterists about to flood your inbox.
Cheers,
-Tom
Don Haring RRSC says
Those of us who have seen these “restorations” up close are generally horrified at the wicked bodgery that goes on under the pretty exterior. These bikes always look good — until you see that the frames have been pieced together from various parts with birds**t welds, soda cans used as seals, trashed engine cases, bent cranks. I could go on, but the wiring and mechanicals on these bikes are notoriously rigged, and often dangerous. Don’t be fooled by the shiny paint!
kneeslider says
OK, before the onslaught of angry scooter mechanics fills my inbox and comment section, let me say I wasn’t vouching for this or any other shop doing this work. I was writing about the process of restoration work in developing countries.
I think there is a possibility this “could” work, not saying it does but it might. As I also said, a downside of this process is the distance between the buyer and the company for any warranty claims when the scooter is new.
On the other hand, I would caution all those of you who have had a bad experience, and it sounds like many of you have, not to group every one of these companies together. In the same way you would not like to be lumped together with a bad domestic mechanic by someone claiming that one particular mechanic proves they’re all bad, there may be a company doing good work trying to rise above the rest of the shady operations.
As the various Chinese motorcycle and auto companies are finding out, their initial awful quality has created a reputation that will be hard to overcome. These Vietnamese scooter rebuilders will go through this same period and it may be a while before they emerge with decent operations, if they ever do.
Also, just for the record, have any of you had a good experience with one of these restorations? And, how long have these companies been doing these rebuilds. I admit, scooters are a little outside my line and a lot of you may have much to add here so feel free to jump in.
Stephen says
Part of the problem is the fact that many companies selling the completely botched scooters also claim “EVERYTHING that is worn or old is replaced.” Unfortunately this is often enough straight up false, and when it’s true, the new replacement parts are worse than worn originals, in terms of quality. Unfortunately, so many people have been burned on these deals that it will be impossible for anyone to start another scooter restoration business in southeast asia without being tarred with the same brush, unless that person were to somehow establish their bona fides with the scootering community in advance.
Part of the problem is that these restorers are trying to cash in on the current scene cachet by marketing to those who do not know better. That means that their reputation in the scooter scene, though horrible, doesn’t really impact their business much: the people who are buying these bikes and unfortunately bringing them into the western market are newbies to the scene and don’t know better – until, unfortunately for them, it’s too late, and they are stuck with an unrepairable $4000 “polished turd”, as those bikes are known among veteran scooterists.
They really are that bad! And, like I said, this is not a “common but isolated” problem, it’s really universal. I feel confident in saying that above 75% of the bikes imported from Viet Nam as restorations are dangerous because of frame/suspension bodges, or at least inferior and subject to sudden failure in terms of engine build parts and quality. It may be that someone out there in Viet Nam is trying to change that, but certainly no one has done it yet.
Stephen Alexander
Houston, TX
Phil Carroll says
Kneeslider, we are not jumping on you or anything. Your not the first person that looked at the surface of this and saw rosey. The fact is that the Vietnamese and the Indonesians have tons of worn out scooters. They have tons of cheap labor. However they have years of experience in making something run that probably shouldn’t anymore. They do it by nessecity. They do it because its always been done. However they think nothing of welding two bodies together (the structurale heart of a Vespa). They think nothing of welding a fork together or putting a screw in to fill a stripped thread or even bodging in main bearings. And they do it. To almost every one of these. then they smooth them and paint them and make them look lovely. And they run… for a little while. However time and time again the buyers find when they have a problem, underneath that shiney turd lies a uncommon bodged mechanical thing that stock parts don’t even fit anymore. And often the motors are not worth nor even can be rebuilt. And some cases the bodies snap in half or the Forks break and make dangerous situations. This occurs like 9 times out of 10. If you want to really see one of these I have one sitting in my project shed. This one the body was atypicaly good but the motor, although running, cannot be rebuilt. Its been modified and its one of a kind now. Lots of other little cheats. But it sure is shiney!
Remember, the bikes they use have been much used for years. Whole familes have ridden on them. They have been rebuilt like five or six times already. They are worn out. Much better source is little used domestic ones sitting in a barn for 30 years that have 500 miles on them.
Also for your information it more often takes about as much money to redo one as you could get out of it. And thats with you doing all of the work yourself. I do a few. I break even sometimes. I know.
But there are already a bunch of entreprenuers bringing these things in and selling em on the cheap. The back rooms of many a Vespa shop are littered with them. Many of them not safe nor salvagable. They prey on the recent demand. And catch the greedy. So don’t be part of the problem. Be part of the solution and rethink your position on this.
Respectfully submitted.
cphilip
kneeslider says
Phil,
Well, I’m not sure I have a position on this. I am strongy in favor of mechanical restoration and rebuilding whenever it makes sense. I have to admit, the appearance of these restorations is appealing but from the comments of those who are in the know, these rebuilds seem to be a disaster waiting to happen.
I like mechanical work well done and, as you say, these scooters probably had a hard life before undergoing restoration. I guess when it seems “to good to be true” it probably is.
As to the cost of a rebuild being equal to what you could get out of it, that seems to be the case in many areas. I used to work on old E type Jaguars, believe me, I know.
dave says
Try reading the blog over at vespatude.com of one persons experience with an asian restored scooter. It has details which sheds more light on the issue than one can get from just being told they are bad. It really shows how bad they can be.
Andy G says
I dont own a scooter shop and I’m not employed by one. I do have a decent collection of 1950’s Vespas and Lambrettas that I have restored over a period of years. Among them at one time was a 1964 Vespa VBB from a Vietnam shop. It it looked great and ran OK for a while. But there were issues. The paint dissolved immediately on contact with fuel. When it started having some problems shifting, I opened up the engine and found some unusual repairs – which anybody with some mechanical skills would agree qualified as a bodge. I know you arent really taking sides on this, but my advice to your readers is to look at any scooter from southeast Asia with a microscope before laying down any cash. Newbies should avoid them all together.
old97 says
Yes I am another reader of http://www.scooterbbs.com, I’ve talked to some people that have bought from the ebay sellers. These were people who posted positive feedback because they got a nice looking bike, but shortly after is when they started having problems, electrical or mechanical, many spending as much as they spent to not have a running bike still.
I have also talked to people with the newest crop of restorations and these are still mechanically suspect in some cases. If any reader insists to buy one Id suggest that they get a bike from a shop and have it the engine THOROUGHLY inspected for problems and have the body checked out by someone as well, the ebay sellers may say theyll stand behind but that should be viewed with the skepticism youd offer to an overseaas buyer who needs you to wire some money back from teh cashiers check they send.
That all said there are some great deals out there but do you want to risk your life figuring out which is rebuilt well and which will have parts or even frames fall apart while on the road?
hoyt says
I’m not a scooter owner, but I admire the timeless style of old scooters.
How is the supply of old body work and other parts outside of Vietnam? i.e. are you finding original bodywork hard to come by?
Are there any places in Vietnam willing to sell the parts in “unrestored” condition? This could get your supply higher (at a good price). Hopefully the un-bondo’d body work is still in good enough condition.
The safety concerns are scary if you consider how some of these scooters are flogged.
Casey says
I have to agree with others that most of these scooters are poorly put together. I’ve have seen one up close and it had lots of problems.
alejadro says
Hi:
I read you topics about vietnam scooter, but you could give the best and the worst companies for buy a scooter i need this infromation because i will buy one this month, please send me your feedbacks.
informes@comunica3.com.mx
thank´s from Mexico
rob says
Hello first can i state that the worst scooters i have seen coming into the uk are not infact from vietnam but from INDIA.I have seen so many shit lambrettas from india and seen some unbelievable repairs.It seems from my experiences that you should stay very distant from these.However getting back to vespas from vietnam i actually imported one 7 months ago and the finish quality is excellent.For the money i paid you could not restore yourself to this standard even in parts let along labour.It went straight through the mot and after doing 300 miles only on it taking out 5 times it still starts first time everytime.Obviously i have not taken engine apart as it runs perfectly.Also you only have to look at the bike to see that everything is like new and all numbers are matching.SO A GOOD EXPERIENCE FROM ME SO FAR.I PURCHASED MINE FROM(harrington group) type this into google and check out there website…..
regards rob
kneeslider says
I’m planning a follow up to this article. The scooter folks have a lot of horror stories but like many other topics, the people who have been burned are all fired up and want the world to know while the customers who are pleased (there may be some) just ride their scooters and don’t get involved. I’ll do a bit more investigating and report what I find.
ScooterX says
Well I hope this is not what is considered a personal attack. I did read the article above and it was enough for me to plunk down $2k, not including shipping, for a 1965 Lambretta LI Series 3 Special. Since Huy’s was referenced in the article, and Huy made a strong point to reference the this thekneeslider.com article as validation. I had met Huy on one of my many trips to Vietnam, I thought meeting him and reviewing his operations along with looking at his sample bikes that I would come out with an awesome Scooter. I also spoke to him about importing two scooter a month to the US to resell. Given those points, you would think the guy would bend over backwards to send a good first quality product.
What was sent to me by Huys’s Scooters was a very unsafe bike where the handlebars broke getting from very little preasure on them when uncrating the scooter. A rear hub that was cracked and partially rewelded. A frame that was in an accident and was tweaked. Very little new parts and lots of incorrect parts and rusted parts.
When asking Huy to fix the problems under warranty, he refused. He offers satisfaction guaranteed and a 90 day warranty but that is an empty offer. Keep in mind, I never even started the bike. Huy was only willing to offer $200 for the issues at hand That will not even come close to replacing the headset. I calculated about $1500 worth of repair is needed on the scooter. So I have $2000 worth of junk now sitting in my shop.
Because of this experience, I started http://www.scoot-central.com to let people be able to see who the good, the bad and the ugly are and make an educated decision. All the information floating around the internet about Viet Scooter shops never seems to be first hand. I am looking for real experience to add to the site.
I would also like to request that thekneeslider.com take down Huy’s link because I do not want to see other make a bad decision because they read the review on this site
Thanks and Happy Scootering
gozi says
i am from germany…sorry for my bad english. I bought a full restaurated vietnamese lambretta some month ago. It came to germany in 2002. Nice looking like the blue-white one.with yellow stands. The owner drove it only about 50 km in 4 years because it was never running. so he sold it after some specialist did not manage to find out whats wrong…
Nearly 90% of the technical parts were to throw away. horrible restauration under a cover of nice coloured shape. Not one part of the engine was ok. it was all to throw away…i have never seen something like this before. nice restored shape…inside a desaster of 50 jear old broken spareparts….
Ady says
Hi Guys, I have recently started restoring scooters and like to think I make a good job. I am a mechanical/ electrical fitter by trade.
I have recently purchased a Sereies 3 LI125 from a guy that paid £2,200 for something I would consider a rip off. He purchased it from a large uk scootering restoration company less than 8 months ago that I guess has become greedy.
It was sold to him as an italian restoration that they imported. The mileage showed he rode it for less than 50 miles after he purchased it with MOT and in “working order” (still has nobbles on tyres) and then gave up.
I don’t know why he didn’t take it back but he didn’t and I bought it to put right, bearing in mind it still has the MOT that it was purchased with.
To start with the kick start was snagging the exhaust when kicked down. The scooter is a very poor starter, the carb had the old float needle so was flooding and the power from the magneto was so poor a bump start was usually required. The side panels did not fit properly and the headset top (the speedo housing) was not LI so did not fit. There were front aftermarket dampers fitted, one of which slid down while on a test run and became dangerous, the cables ends were frayed and in my opinion poor quality. I went onto their website and found the scoot as sold but when clicking on the “buy this scooter” it showed the price. I except that they didn’t restore it but should they really be selling it at this price, in this condition. I paid £1200 so the guy lost £1000 for a 50 mile journey! Ok to summarise, no I would not buy from the far east, but be aware when buying from anyone, anywhere
it may have an MOT but that does not mean reliability. I will be getting this scooter starting and running properly and then sorting out the paintwork and then selling it how it should be sold.
Regards
Ady
Eric says
Greets all,
Novice scooterist here. My girlfriend got a 1968 VBC 150 Vietnamese resto as a gift, and we planned on selling it since it’s too large for her, but then got a response to an ad from a woman whose scooter club pals warned her away from it. I followed up with some web-surfing to find these cautionary pages and others like it re: Vietnamese Vespas, with the usual laundry list of “how to spot an Asian resto” that has been recycled here (has any of you actually SEEN the oft-cited soda-can shims?). Viet title documents were included with the machine, so the seller wasn’t concealing its origins. No bondo, no freak frame welds, a couple added non-original items (rack, glove box, maybe seats?).
Only 150 miles on it, so I’ll post an update as the miles tick off if I live. As I note above, it was a gift, so no money gone, but I do believe I’ll be having it thoroughly inspected (after going over it myself, again) based on the numerous comments I’ve seen here and elsewhere.
Cheers,
Eric
Ricky says
i m from Bali,Indonesia,i had a 1972 vespa super 150cc, i bought that from my client in 2003, so starting there gonna be my hobby to restore the vespa, i use it to pick up my children when they go to school. in 2006 I try to start in vespa business restoration, i have own repair station for engines problems and i also have a paintworkshop,some of collectors always come to see my collection,they satisfied with the quality, which have an excellent engines and body parts.
Actually to fix an old vespa scooter would not be so expensive,depends on the mechanic person’s skill and knowledge to repair the vespa.
I choose the vespa to buy, price depends on quality, at least i spent USD 600-900 for restoration costs.
So,the total price I sell around USD1,500-1,800
I never try to sell abroad,so i m gonna to sell them one by one.
If you can market my vespa year range 1966-1990,with range price USD1,500-1,800 in europe market, i will try to give them special price for sample.
My vespa super 150cc ‘1972 with soft blue colour, will be my sample, i will sell it with special price USD 900 FOB Indonesia.
I just want to promote our best work into export market.
Kindly contact me for sample order, and i will give special price USD 900 each (only one person in each country).
Please contact me at +628192662250 (SMS accepted) or email ericstarltd@gmail.com
regards
Ricky
Bali-Indonesia
Francis Pryor says
I acquired one of these that was not running for 600 usd, It has some issues looks good and you can fix or replace any part that was jerryrigged, and still not have a lot in it if you can firnd them for these prices, but dont pay the prices they ask for them.
Roberto says
Hi.
Please look at my website under the link Vespa restorations/the black vbb and have a good look at one of those “fully restored” Vietnam Vespas.
I have many clients that spent 3 times more money than the purchase price on those disasters and they are still having trouble with their scooters.
Good luck if you buy one
robert mcdaniel says
i have a piaggio mp250 which the seat is 2″ to 2-1/2″ too hight. where or how can it be lowered and who – how much $$$ ? i can’t lenghten my legs!!!
mouseofmight says
i am another victum of the e bay vietnamese scooter scam.