In The Kneeslider’s carefully catalogued haphazardly strewn collection of hundreds of back issues of motorcycle magazines, lies a treasure trove of information. Many of those mags have post-it notes sticking out from the pages with a small note about some interesting content on a particular topic, something I thought might be worth investigating in more detail. I got an email from Bob Horn pointing to some Moko framed Harley Davidsons and I remembered making a note on just that topic some time back and, sure enough, there was my tag in the September ’93 issue of Motorcyclist next to a couple of photos showing an earlier attempt at housing the V-twins in something a bit sportier than the usual Harley Davidson frames. This might be interesting, given our recent coverage of Curt Winter’s projects.
When I looked around before, I found the Moko frame website but all they have are inline fours in their gallery of images and I dropped my digging at that point, the links Bob supplied show several Harley powered bikes, one was almost identical to the example I marked in Motorcyclist (the blue one above).
We can endlessly debate the idea of using Harley Davidson power in a sport bike and a few of the other posts here have resulted in exactly that, but the REAL point is you can do it if you want, certainly no reason not to and some top notch frame builders have come up with nice alternatives to standard cruiser frames for the HD engine. Variety is good, I like it.
Thanks for the links, Bob!
Link: Moko Harleys
Link: Torquemaster
Link: Moko
Related: Big Twin Racers
Related Rickman Harley
hoyt says
cool!
Jim’s & Baker Drivetrain – if you market a compact drivetrain for big twins, people will buy them….and build out this direction of the custom bike scene.
more exposure of these “big block bikes” is excellent.
Thanks.
todd says
The craftsmanship looks excellent. I just don’t understand the gratuitous routing of the exhaust. Fun.
-todd
aaron says
I like the concept of a harley sportbike (maybe not the price associated with it) but I’ve never seen a styling theme applied that really suits the motor. the only possible exception is the dresda specials using a featherbed frame and an ironhead sportster motor.
I’m not sure what will happen with harley (big air cooled twin) sportbikes in the future – from what I’ve heard the new twin cam runs so hot there’s a dealer fix available that makes it idle on one cylinder to keep temperatures down during low speed city riding! potential for tuning? If that happens in stock form, I’d say not much….
at least they can still run in low speed traffic – my favorite punching bag, GM, has just demonstrated that a brand new cadillac can not be relied on to get you anywhere.
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/11/video-bushs-limo-breaks-down-in-rome-italians-giggle-and-poin/
todd says
Aaron, let’s not forget the Wakan, its picture is up to the right of your screen. It’s got to be the cleanest, nicest looking “Harley” sport bike ever fathomed (so far).
-todd
aaron says
oh, I love the wakan. but I think the design would do just as well with a triumph triple or boxer twin stuck in the frame. I’m thinking that whether you pick an archaic engine design out of stupidity, blind patriotism, or a keen sense of asthetics, that the rest of the design should look like it shares something in common with that motor.
I mean, really – it is about being a “harley powered sportbike” and not just “a sportbike”. why not bring some appropriate styling cues? the styling of the motor is the heart of the concept (well, that or stupidity, blind patriotism, or buying into a large corporate organization’s advertising about rebellion) so if you’ve got a 1950’s-1960’s style motor, let’s at least go for the proportions found on motorcycles of the period. a little lower, a little longer, a little more rake. (think 1970’s ducati geometry!)
classic styling doesn’t need to be retro. but could you imagine if triumph went the buell route with the thruxton version of the bonneville? it would look worse than an elephant abortion! in this case, the styling of the bike was in line with the motor and the era it recalled.
Gordy says
They need to be a little careful with the exhaust, air-cleaner, etc., as it is all-too-easy to mess up the strong aesthetics of the V-twin engine. Good luck to them.
(By the way hoyt, I did get around to making a comment in the Ecosse Spirit ES-1 thread).
hoyt says
Aaron – lots of provocation..and I’m not offended in any way. Good going with stoking a discussion. Where to start?
“archaic design out of stupidity…”
Archaic compared against modern, high revving multis ? certainly. Archaic in terms of providing usable torque for the street & good mpg? I disagree.
Stupid in terms of servicability & tuning big performance possibilities? No. (although mpg is diminished)
“blind patriotism” –
unfortunately, there is a lot of that with the HD crowd. I like HD a lot for various reasons; but blind patriotism in its consumers can work against any company from any country (as noted by your GM comment). Go Victory !
“blind patriotism” –
in terms of building a sportbike for the street with an American-mill? A deep passion for riding spills over into a desire for riding something that came from your own country. Ok, so it is patriotic in a sense, but only “to represent” in a fun, passionate hobby enjoyed around the globe. The Italian “patriotism” towards their bikes is admirable. side note: It was exciting to see numerous Buells throughout Italy.
Keep in mind, Wakan is French, home to stellar motorcycle designs over the years.
The design intent is to tap into the beloved ’60s-era hotrod/muscle-car type of an experience, but in a bike.
Wakan even makes reference to the Shelby Cobra on their site. (although, stuffing a Big Twin instead of a Sportster-derived motor may be more comparable to what Shelby did with stuffing a big block instead of a small block into a sports car chassis).
What other engine would you use besides a big, American v-twin if that was the intended design goal? “archaic” pushrod or not. Buell, BTR, ACR, Wakan, Moko, Ecosse (USA) – all of them hit the mark in terms of the intent to build a hotrod, muscle bike that knows what a corner looks like when leaned over. These are streetbikes.
“…or buying into a large corporate organization’s advertising about rebellion…” –
funny. Good one & accurate, too. Remove motorcycling from the pop culture masses! (sigh. I know, their money is helping produce better bikes.)
You mention the 50’s-60’s look of a motor and matching it to the overall look of the bike. What do you think of the ACR (Mike Cook’s American Cafe Racer) ? I’m sure you’ve seen it on the Kneeslider and on Mike’s own site. It is one of my personal favorites in terms of sportbike-like styling & handling combined with the HD exposed pushrod big twin. (although, I agree with Gordy regarding the exhaust headers obscuring the engine).
It is difficult to combine modern sportbike styling touches with the vintage look of an HD engine, but Curt Winter’s latest work is doing it well. I’m looking forward to the final version.
“classic styling doesn’t need to be retro.” I agree. Moto Guzzi’s V11 Sport from a couple of years ago illustrates that sentiment very well.
Gordy – thanks for the comment about the Ecosse-Spirit.
hoyt says
also keep in mind in reference to “blind patriotism” – this post is about Moko, a German company, I believe.
Sean says
A while back my dad was talking to the owner of the only Harley importer in town. He remarked that Harley was a great exercise in marketing, creating a pop culture idea of the “badass Harley rider” out of an average product. The owner of the Harley store, surrounded by various Harley paraphernalia, turned to him and said “not average. Mediocre”. The Harley engine is old, outdated and entirely boring. But I admire Harley Davidson for one thing. They, and they alone, have hundreds upon thousands of people willing to pay vast amounts for these bikes. They have tens of thousands of people willing to tattoo this brand’s image on themselves. They are in love with the image, and of the company, and this is why I admire the company. Guzzi’s are better in most respects. Guzzi’s have a similar brand identity with them. But everybody’s heard of Harley Davidson. Not everybody has heard of Moto Guzzi.
hoyt says
I wouldn’t say an HD motor is boring in any of the engine’s attributes. It looks great, sounds great (when its not going through an unbaffled short pipe), and it performs great on the street. Plus, there are many ways to add performance to it.
aaron says
I know that many builders discussed are european, so the patriotism does not apply in these cases.
my comments were meant to span the entire spectrum of harley powered sporty bikes. the various reasons apply to different folks. some pick the motor because it’s powerful & reliable (stupidity may be a bit strong – ignorance?) patriotism? I’m all for sticking a harley motor in something – but what can be said when you get some builders with hundreds of one off designs and nothing has a non-harley motor (or non-S&S, ultima, revtech etc.)…..i guess every one of these bikes is unique(tm) and rebellious!(tm)
I looked for the ACR and mistook the BTR for it. my first thought was “what the hell? I remember these being retro???” so, one in a million ain’t bad. remember – the last reason I gave for choosing the motor was “a keen sense of aesthetics”.
and I use the term archaic because of what it is – a throwback. not a bad thing, I just bought a t-shirt with the word “ARCHAIC” dominating the art on the front – I figured it suited my tastes. I love bevel drive ducati’s, commando’s, pre 1970 bonnevilles, complicated mechanical watches, etc. – In fact, in selecting an engine for my first build I went archaic myself, in a way. it had to have one cylinder, and watercooling was out of the question. enter the XT/TT 500 motor. when it’s done it’ll even have spoked wheels. (and hopefully a supercharger!)
I’m not against harley powered sporty bikes either, in fact I can name many more in addition to your list that would not get kicked out of my garage. add the pantera dragster, ross tom’s aluminator, and several xr750 themed bikes. there’s sundance’s golden balls, goldammer, krugger, and roland sand’s designs. but we’re not really looking at bikes you or I could buy (with the exception of the pantera.)
the new addition to my favorites list: the SE service hulster 8 valve. I searched for good pics, but couldn’t link any. (go to dbbp.com and look at the winners of the swedish motorcycle show.) this engine has rudge ulster style heads grafted onto an old harley bottom end! VERY archaic, VERY cool.
hoyt says
“…so, one in a million ain’t bad.”
What do you mean? I agree that there are a “million” choppers/bobbers/board tracker replicas, etc. using the HD-based engine, but there are very few sporty bikes using a big twin, especially in N. America (unless I’m missing them).
Aside from the small batch OEMs like Confederate & Ecosse, I only know of a few that are building big twin customs with geometry close to sport/sport touring specs.:
Curt from BTR (built his first one in 1996-97),
Mike Cook from ACR,
Roland Sands (to some degree) Roland’s “No Regrets” would require minor changes to become street legal.
Bob Horn
There was the one X-Wedge bike that had a street tracker type of setup, but I don’t know if that frame was their own design.
Do you know of others?
I agree that more customs using other engines would be refreshing. Customs along the lines of the Moko are a great step towards that diversity.
The silver Moko above is a tough one…I can see why some would think there is a clash of styles between the bodywork and the chosen engine. Pictures don’t always do a bike justice.
todd says
I agree. I’ve always loved the look of a single cylinder cafe racer and it’s fun to have something different. Nothing beats the sparsity, the lightness, the transparency of only one cylinder suspended in a cage of tubing. If you ever get a chance go dig through eurospare’s web pages.
This is one of my favorite SR500’s:
http://aachen.heimat.de/leute/nico/sr500/eurospares4.jpg
-todd
aaron says
hoyt – I think you were just arguing my point for me. one in a million that works for me as a complete package. not a lot of sporty/standard types, and most in series production (ie. more than 5 or so) are somehow awkward looking. the manx works for me (mostly).
why be hunched over clipons though? it seems that no-one wants to build a harley based sporting standard (without dirt track looks, anyways)… it’ll perform like a standard, why not just get comfy? I guess the best comparison it the ducati sportclassics. sport 1000 vs gt 1000. both sport 1000’s I’ve seen in the flesh have been offered to me for sale (I must look like I have money?) it usually comes across as “I can’t ride it for more than a half hour before cramping up, and the gt1000 looks almost as good” (the ergos are one of the first things I’m working into my thumper’s design – I want to be able to ride it, enjoy it, and show it off. and yes, I would have bought a sport over a gt1000 too, before talking to these folks)
Jeff says
Buell
Bob Horn says
Hoyt,
I’m out of Big Twin Sportbike links – sort of. There was an FXR based kit offered for sale, complete with XRTT style fairing if I remember right, about 15 years ago. I can’t find any reference to it anywhere. There were small ads for it in the backs of some H-D magazines.
There were 2 sportster based ones out of Britain – the Goodman Engineering cafe racer sold by someone with links to Velocette – it looked very British. H-D had one in that creepy old warehouse in Milwaukee – anyone familiar with that building knows what I’m talking about.
There was a very nice Spondon framed one in Performance Bike (I think) around 1993. If I remember right, it had the Sputhe Thunderheads. Anyone remember those?
Bob Horn says
One funny bit in the Performance Bike article was a line saying that by time you get a Harley done the way you want it, there is very little Harley left.
That was one of those magazines that I should have kept.
Jeff says
It’s called BUELL ?
Markus says
I´m the owner of the Sputhe Thunderhead 1300 engine! It`s no longer in the Spondon chassis, now it`s in a CJ Flat Track frame.
ROHORN says
PLEASE post some pics!!!!!