A little over a year ago, Electric Motorsport gutted a Yamaha R1 and filled it with batteries and an electric motor. It looked a bit rough but it worked pretty well. They evidently learned quite a bit from that project because they’ve introduced the GPR-S, a lithium battery powered model that looks like a finished bike, no strapped on battery pack this time, with a 60 to 70 mph top speed and a 35 to 60 mile range depending on whether you’re running in power or economy mode. An onboard charger takes 4 hours to charge it back up or an optional speed charger does the trick in 1.5 hours. The price is $8000.00.
They also note the motor mounting system is industry standard so you can swap motors for another when you think it’s time to upgrade or if something better comes along.
All of the electric motorcycles coming out so far seem to be suitable for short commuter use or occasional errands and they seem ready for that right now. The range is still a little short for any more extended riding and the recharge time is the hurdle if you want to go much further. They’re very close but not quite there yet and battery development is the key. When better batteries come along, this market will explode. There’s a huge market waiting and I’m sure everyone working on batteries is painfully aware of that. I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
One further thought/question: Electrics suffer from short range and long recharge time, but suppose we could solve one of those two, would it be better to have longer range and long recharge or short range and shorter recharge?
More questions: What would you consider acceptable range? What is acceptable recharge time?
Link: Electric Motorsport via Autobloggreen
pabsy says
well i wouldnt define a 35-60 mile range and 1.5-4hr charge as very close, i’d define that as very far !
nice find though but until the electric motors ‘gas tank’ aka the battery is substantially improved all these great concepts will remain just concepts or very narrow application products
once we figure out how to store more electricity and get it in there in minutes however yea the industry will explode and obselete gasoline vehicles almost overnight also rendering hydrogen vehicles irrelevent
its hugely exciting to thing of mr tesla’s super simple electric motors powering our future
combined with future generation solar panels we’ll see super simplified transport that preactically never visits a gas station or a service station for that matter
with the exponential acceleration of technology my wild ass guess is 10-12 years before the boffins fix batteries and solar panels to fulfill their potential i cant wait
kneeslider says
The range is almost there if you just want a short commuter ride you can recharge at work. That’s what I mean by close. Of course, for $8k, that’s a pretty expensive commuter only motorcycle. The problem is there’s no flexibility. You can’t just go out for a ride for a few hours. 35 miles and you’re ready for a charge for 4 hours. No thanks. Until you can fill up a battery like you can fill your gas tank, electrics have a steep hill to climb for acceptance. Only the truly committed electric motorcycle fan will find this appealing.
pabsy says
agreed
but were gonna get there !
specifically for bikers there will be a new generation raised exclusively on electric which is so digital i think there will be some connection lost between the equipment and the rider
christopher says
i’ll be honest: i’m not an electric fan. for several reasons. some of which are pure vanity i’ll admit. but i give them credit, at least this one is pretty!!
sanglant says
Electrics will come to off road bikes first, and sort out the issues there before it comes to road bikes. KTM has an electric that will be on the market next year.
The range issue isn’t as critical off road as on road. Go to most riding parks and the riders return to the truck long before the gas is gone. Also, noise is a serious issue and the major complaint for developing private parks. If that issue could be removed, not just attenuated, but eliminated, it would open more opportunities for the off road rider.
Also, the performance of the electric off roaders are closer to their gas brethren than the road going versions.
As to which would I rather have, I want range and power. The bike will be sitting overnight in most cases anyway, so it’s the easiest thing for me to sacrifice.
Ry_Trapp0 says
like everyone else, im not a big fan of electrics either. if someone could produce a cheap one to use as a commuter though, i would be all over it in a heart beat(granted it looked good of course). the cost of all of these electrics just defeats the purpose of using them as a commuter, so the costs definatly have to come down.
as for the question at the end, i would much rather have a longer range and a longer recharge time. im thinking from a commuter perspective though, as i dont really see electrics ever replacing a conventional bike or car when it comes to joy riding or long distance travel.
guitargeek says
I’m watching for electric double-layer capacitors to come into their own. These would allow you to charge up in about the same time it now takes to fill the tank with gas. The infrastructure is mostly in place for an electric transportation economy, we just need to set up new high current charging stations (with safeties in place so soccer moms don’t electrocute themselves because they’re busy talking on the phone instead of paying attention to what they’re doing.)
As I understand it, you’d connect a fat cable to a charging port on the vehicle, lots and lots of electrons rush into these capacitors. You ride away while the electrons trickle from the capacitors into the batteries which power the motor.
China and Germany have already started using this technology for public transit…
Daniel Martin says
We seldom see the weight of electric vehicles, or the claimed horsepower. So it can go 70 mph – in how long? 0-60 mph times of over 10 seconds is a hazard in modern traffic, I’d say. Does it weigh 400 pounds? Are those skinny tires rated for 300 pounds each (inc’l rider)?? The brakes? The suspension?
Where will all the worn-out batteries go? How much energy, and/or environmental damage, was and will be required for: (1) manufacture and (2) ‘safe’ disposal of them? There’s a lot of copper in those electric motors. What about that?
Finally: Do you really think you’ll save the planet by riding one of these ??
My 250cc Honda Reflex scooter gets 70 miles per gallon, go 200 miles on a tank, and goes 75 mph – and only cost $3,500 on eBay. Way better deal.
kneeslider says
Daniel – “My 250cc Honda Reflex scooter gets 70 miles per gallon, go 200 miles on a tank, and goes 75 mph – and only cost $3,500 on eBay.”
Yep, and you can refill anywhere in 5 minutes and go another 200 miles, pretty tough competition for any electric.
Azzy says
Its nice to see the improvement, but I would like to see a move to super capacitors away from Litium cells. Teh idea of a laptop battery going bad (ie, sweloling, venting, catching fire that needs a class D extinguisher to put out) is enough, btu having some yahoo trick out his sportbike with a bigger motor that pulls more amps and kills a cell will be a big wakeup call.A big firey painful one.
dave says
All electric is fine if you’re a city dweller. For those living in the suburbs and further the front wheel electric hub drive conversion will still work better.
Take a gas bike, swop front tire with electric hub for city commuting and gas engine for long distance highway commuting that can also charge hub batteries.
Peugeot has a 3 wheel roofed concept like this in the works, the HYmotion3.
Mark Savory says
One of the items missing from the electric motorcycle / scooter evolution is the GPS smarts to determine distance from home -vs- usage. Essentially an alert system that will warn the rider that he is reaching his range limit to be able to return home or find alternative charging resources.
GM is dealing with this in regard to the Volt currently — and it’s high priority to be honest via the people who I know working on it. To maximize cost effiency of refueling, it’s cheaper to re-charge at home than to run a hybrid fuel system while driving. Thus priority is in developing a GPS based system to determine the range used -vs- what is required for energy to return home. Ideal situation is to not run the hybrid charging system at all when driving and return home with a fully depleted battery. It sounds like a fairly simple problem to resolve — but it isn’t because you can’t identify exactly the daily usage of a vehicle.
Jc says
Well said Sanglant.
“Electrics will come to off road bikes first, and sort out the issues there before it comes to road bikes”
There is a company that advertises in the back of Dirt Bike and Dirt Rider for kids electric dirt bikes. No shifting, no noise, low maintenance so in theory your kid can ride where you can’t to learn and practice. A learning tool or a a sign of things to come? Time will tell
jabu.coffee says
most places u stop hav electricity,any the further u riding th longer u likely to stay,if that makes sense,im not gonna visit a friend 30miles away for a half hour visit?and im not gonna go to a cafe 30miles away for a load of bread i couldve bought around th corner..so ja
hobomike says
A design/marketing question here: Would an electric mc sell better if it “looked” like an electric motorcycle (something new, perhaps more “futuristic”) vs. a traditionally styled one with a “gas” tank? I can see arguments for both, mostly drawn from the experience of autos. But how about from current hardcore bikers?
QrazyQat says
One thing that would help would be faster recharges. For instance Killacycle, the electric dragster, can be recharged in about 5 minutes with a 50A connection. If you could go at least 50 miles and then recharge in 5 minutes, you’re talking. (Especially when you consider the torque that you get with electric motors, basically the broadest powerband imaginable.) Right now that rechanrging takes expensive batteries, but that will change. A little extra help from a solar panel wouldn’t hurt either, even though it wouldn’t be enough to do a lot.
B*A*M*F says
I love the idea of an electric motorcycle or car. Don’t get me wrong, I love internal combustion engines, in particular I’ve got a fondness for 2 strokes. However, having tons of torque and having all of it at the instant you roll on the throttle would be amazing. Having a really broad torque and power curve and no need to shift would be amazing as well.
I’d also love to be able to blast along my favorite twisty roads with minimal noise and vibration. It would be something akin to flying.
Less maintenance is something I wouldn’t complain about.
Now, top that off with being able to do something better for the planet (assuming I get my electricity from a green source), it’s a pretty sweet deal all around.
motomoon says
QrazyQat: While it would be great to have a 50A connection for quick recharging one mistake, short, or battery failure and death is very likely. 50A would cook a person real quick.
Battery swap stations are a good compromise.
Erik says
Zero Motorcycles (http://zeromotorcycles.com/) in Scotts Valley, CA is selling an all-electric off-road bike that, apparently, kicks butt.
As for me, I’ll switch when range is over a hundred miles, recharge is under fifteen minutes and top speeds are 120 plus. But, if I have to choose between shorter range/short recharge and longer range/longer recharge, I’ll go with longer range/longer recharge so long as the recharge isn’t longer than overnight.
QrazyQat says
While it would be great to have a 50A connection for quick recharging one mistake, short, or battery failure and death is very likely. 50A would cook a person real quick.
I’ve plugged my RV into 50A outlets often enough, and so do any number of old coots like me. It’s hardly death defying. The battery charger, inverter and converter don’t explode or whatever you’re thinking would happen. 🙂 It’s just a plug.
motomoon says
Fair enough, but it’s still uncommon for most people to deal with that kind of voltage plugs in everyday use. I would say that the plug, wires, batteries, and components for charging a daily driver type motorcycle is going to wear out and break faster than an RV plug.
Insideous says
Charging units are using the same connections as industrial forklift operations which are charging every 8 hrs at shift change so the appropriate response to wear&tear is use better equipment…
The next innovations to occur in battery tech are economizing energy usage thru better battery management (BMS), batts specifically formed to fill the volume space instead of fitting a square peg in a round hole, and improving the public relations thinking that it will take hours to charge – there are other methods of charging instead using a standard 10-20 amp outlet – another example of a faster method is a dump charge which takes a large battery pack and dumps the charge into a depleted pack taking only minutes to accomplish. This method leaves the larger stationary pack at the charge station charge at off-peak hours (or charge ata slower rate) while leaving the mobile unit free to travel.
Azzy says
Yes, but at what cost does the faster charge come? In my expericnace, the faster charging a battery is, the lower amount of cycles it can handle.
How much does a battery pack cost outright, $3K? Imagine having to sink that into your bike ever 3 years or so. There goes the era of inexpensive older bikes that has gotten myself and many others into the door on owning a motorcycle .
There are some of us that just wont borrow money to buy a vehicle.
Mark says
Whilst I love the idea of an electric motorcycle, I do agree with those who have commented that it is too expensive for too little performance at this stage. The electric off-road bike, however, is absolutely ready for market right now. With quiet bikes and no exhaust fumes, moto-cross riding could be done anywhere from an early morning in a park to an indoor track in a warehouse. This could easily revolutionise the sport and make it socially acceptable to enjoy riding in places which have previously been too close to civilisation.
mark says
An electric motorcycle is utterly useless to me unless it can go 250 miles with a top speed of at least 80mph and a recharge time of less than an hour, with enough battery power left over for heated grips and a GPS.
In other words, it ain’t happening anytime soon.
Meanwhile, my V-Strom 650 can easily do all of the above, but “recharging” (filling the gas tank) only takes 5 minutes. It may not be as green as an electric (wait, have they solved that battery disposal problem yet…?), but it still manages 55mpg if I don’t flog it, I can comfortably ride it on long trips, and it’s a great commuter too.
So, my interest in an electric motorcycle? Zero. No pun intended.
Motoxyogi says
Sheesh, a lot of you guys are taking this way to seriously, comparing an electric motorcycle to a gas one. Thats not the idea. The idea is to get rid of the gas guzzlers and their ~66% energy loss and move on to an altogether more efficient energy distribution system. And think about the possibilities not the deficits. Miss your 2-stroke powerband? Program a voltage regulator to get the handlebars to try an smack you in face when the rpm hits 6 thou. Don’t like the sound of your bike, get a recording of the zx-rr “screamer” or M1 “growler” to play out a speaker scaled to your revs. Besides a 4 hour recharge doesn’t sound half as bad as waiting for the next oil war to finish and prices come down to affordable levels.
QrazyQat says
Yes, but at what cost does the faster charge come? In my expericnace, the faster charging a battery is, the lower amount of cycles it can handle.
You’d want better batteries, such as the expensive ones that they use in Killacycle. The price of these things will come down, as they always do.
Fair enough, but it’s still uncommon for most people to deal with that kind of voltage plugs in everyday use. I would say that the plug, wires, batteries, and components for charging a daily driver type motorcycle is going to wear out and break faster than an RV plug.
It’s an electrical plug. It’s like the one on your washer/dryer. For an electric vehicle it could be something even easier, like the “paddle” one they used on the GM EV-1 (http://www.greencar.com/images/gm-ev1/ev1-paddle-2.jpg), but even a standard plug is not a problem.
Mark says
To Answer the questions:
I’d want 100+ mile range AND cheaper.
I’d also pick long range over quick charge because, how do you know there’ll always be a plug (with free electricity) anyplace other than your home? You should recharge at home (night) or by solar panels…
Phoebe says
To me, the range isn’t so bad…it would get me to work and back with milage to spare, but the top speed of only 50-60 mph is definitely a deal-breaker for me.
QrazyQat says
I think the thing to look at is how far these vehicles have come in a short time. Back even 15 years ago the idea of a fast electric vehicle was a joke, the idea of one approaching a reasonable range and speed was a joke too. Now they’re getting close (and Killacycle shows you can, given money, make a fast bike — 7.89 seconds at 168 MPH). Give it another 5-10 years and see what we get. Get people like Honda and Toyota fully involved and committed and see how fast things change too. This is a fascinating period for electric vehicles of all kinds, motorcycles included. I see a top fuel drag bike uses around 3.5 gallons per 1/4 mile run; Killacycle uses about $0.10 worth of electricity to do the same, including the run back to the pits. This makes me want to see where we are in a few years.
electricitycycles says
Highway range of 80X80(80 miles at 80MPH) is ideal to me.
As for cost/benefit, off road is a great place to start. Off road bikes though are not cheap though with brand new 250’s costing upwards of $6500. Here’s the example I used: http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelhome/210/0/home.aspx
Conversely, for on road bikes a new 250 Ninja is around 4500. 3500 for fuel/oil changes works out to be about 300 trips to the gas station assuming a 4 gallon tank with gas at 2.67.
But the bigger picture here is that the people buying these bikes are not old school riders. There are new riders learning to ride on a one speed bike and enjoying that ride. Electric riders are transitional riders who don’t want the status quo and want to be able to ride something that shows their Green side. The early adopters pickign up the bike are doing so because they care about the environment and this is a way for them to vice this with their wallets
Hawk says
Have we forgotten what happened when we decided to enhance our gasoline with alcohol? A whole bunch of farmers converted to growing fermentable grains – and the price of food sky-rocketed.
Where do we think that the electrical energy is going to come from? Oh sure, a few hundred electrical chargers plugged in isn’t going to make much difference …. and the energy is (at the moment) cheap. But how about a few million being hung on the grid each night?
The National Energy Grid is running close to overload now. We constantly hear pleas to turn stuff off, use more efficient light bulbs, etc. Is this because the Power Companies don’t want to sell more? Hell no – it’s because they don’t have the resources to build more power generation stations!
Most of our power is generated by fossil fuel burning (Read – “pollution”.) So, as they say, do you want it out of a tail pipe or a smoke stack? The need for more power must be met by non-polluting means such as solar, wind, tidal, hydro and so on. Of course the ONLY true energy source is nuclear because the sun is a nuclear furnace – and that’s where it all comes from, eh?
Aside from the environmentalists going apoplectic, our power future must be by properly controlled nuclear power generation. Our past problems here can be traced to improper maintenance and control.
I won’t be here when the oil runs out …. but my kids might be. How about yours?
FREEMAN says
I’m currently not a fan as electrics still have a long way to go. However, if I were to get one of these, it would have to have an onboard charging system, whether it be a gas generator or whatever. I will not buy a vehicle that I leaves me stuck in the middle of nowhere just because I need an outlet. No thanks.
todd says
It’s been found that more people will recharge during the day than night (hello, free power at work?) adding even more of a burden to power stations. For me, this thing might not really be able to get me to work.
That’s one thing electric vehicles will have to better define: range. All to often they quote the highest possible range achieved i.e. 40mph, no stop-start, favorable wind and temperatures. Increase your speed in the dead of winter and you might be able to go 5 miles before its dead. I would need to know if I could go 40 miles on the freeway every day, all year round. OK let’s say I make it to work and my wife calls with an emergency; “Sorry hun, you’ll have to wait 4 hours for me to recharge…”
-todd
JC says
One reason Killacycle is so fast is they are basically outright abusing highly modified motors.
DC motors typically have a continuous rating, a 5-10 minute rating, and a intermittent rating, usually 10-20 seconds. When you’re running sub 8 second 1/4 mile, only the last one matters.
Enter stop and go traffic with acceleration from every light and a half hour or hour long commute and the other ratings start to matter.
The 200 lbs of batteries in Killacycle give it a two mile range, cut the power by a factor of 20 to about 10 HP and you have a 40 minute run time. 10HP is sufficient for nearly highway speeds, and more than enough for city driving.
LiIon batteries will most likely come down in price given enough time, and there are some NiMh batteries with nearly the energy density already.
QrazyQat says
One reason Killacycle is so fast is they are basically outright abusing highly modified motors.
Well duh. That’s pretty much the definition of drag racing. 🙂 Point is it can be done, and that’s super fast. It suggests that a merely very fast bike is not impossible, and will be more and more possible as time goes on.
Azzy says
As to comparing this to a gas bike, Im going to paraphrase Popular Science… You are trying to replace a gallon of gas with that entire battery pack. You have a battery pack that will get about the same range as a gallon of gas in many bikes, but at the high cost and slow recharge of electric.
Its going to be years until they can get battery tech to the point that it will be feasible, but here is the biggest issue. Cost.
Not many are going to pop down the chunk of change to buy such a limited bike. Without the market pushing for a more efficient bike, you arent going to get a ton of them out there, so teh price will remain high, options slim, and will go teh way of the EV1.
Unless you get government pushing it, where we will end up with a bike with twice the range, 1/2 the speed, 3x the weight at $50,000 and only availible in blaze orange with mandatory second helmet.
Lets get this stuff worked out mainstream in cars, then try and move it over. Until tehn, let the custom shos try at it, lets wish them well, and we will see if it takes off. I’m not holding my breath though.
Nicolas says
The interesting point that has been mentioned above is the overall efficiency of the system … Is there any serious study that shows the real impact on the environment of the electric vehicles ?
Let’s say we count how the electric power is generated, a gas turbine or steam turbine would have an efficiency around 50%, maybe 60% in combined cycles. I don’t know what is the power loss in the grid, maybe 10% (?), and I have no clue how an electric motor takes adavantage of the power stored in the battery … at the end are we really far from the 34% efficiency of the gas engine ?
Then you’d say an electric car has no emissions, but the same gas/steam power plant doesn’t look really pretty on this aspect. Nuclear probably does better, as long as it stays under control… Hydro is pretty cool but you’ll tell me it put entire regions under water, wind turbines are very cool but NIMBY. Solar is not usable yet at larger scale, and uses probably nasty chemicals in it. And the battery does certainly use vile components/metals that need to be disposed, too.
At the end, what’s better ? It’s just a question, guys, not a critic, and I’d love to have enlightened experts opinion on this question. Anyone ?
Ray says
Nicolas,
I’ve actually done some research on electric vehicles and efficiency of ICEs. I find it interesting that you almost always hear detractors compare the efficiency of of ICEs
after the gas is in the tank and EVs from the raw materials. From memory electricity
generated from burning fossil fuels can achieve 60% effficiency, but are more typically in the 40-50% range. Typical ICE runs at 20-25% efficiency. Efficiency of electricity transmition to plug is 90-97%. I’ve seen numbers quoted for manufacturing gas from oil at 93%, but was never able to find where this number came from. I actually got raw numbers and calculated the efficiency at between 84-87%. Charging batteries anywhere from 80-90% efficient. Electric motors 80-95% efficient. We won’t go into transporting the gas from refinery to gas station or the electricity to pump it.
So, typical ICE 20-25%*84-93% = 16.8 – 23.2% efficient.
typical EV 80-95%*40-60%*90-97%*80-90% = 23.0 – 49.7% efficient.
Note: The most efficient ICE cars are roughly on par with your most inefficent EV.
You best EVs are about twice as efficient as the better ICEs.
This doesn’t even talk about pollution. Again you will almost always find that comparison is done once the gas has reached the ICE. If you look at the average
car as putting out 100 units of pollution, the average EV puts out 10. The Toyota Prius would output 20 units.
Farhan says
I travel about 80 km up and down to work on my indian bike. Pretty much enjoying the long ride with indian fuel economy. If there were to be an electric bike that does 100 km (63 miles) at a reasonable price with the same fun of a combustion engine bike, I’d be the the first to buy. I wouldn’t mind recharging it about 4 hours I could do it overnight.