The Kneeslider

Doers Builders and Positive People

Chinese Motorcycle Design Curiosities

By

Hi Bird Sport Cruiser
Hi Bird Sport Cruiser

Some examples of Chinese motorcycle design are inspiring. Take this example for instance, maybe it’s just me but this HBMoto “250 Sport Cruiser” looks like it was “inspired” by the Storz XR1200. Just a coincidence I suppose. Of course, no one is going to mistake this 250 for a 1200 but c’mon.

Tom wrote in to point this out and said:

HiBird is one of China’s second tier manufacturers, only building around 800,000 to 1,000,000 bikes a year. If the engine looks familiar, it’s the same design as Yamaha’s old Route 66/Virago 250/V-Star 250 engine, widely built/copied/cloned/pirated by a number of manufacturers in China.

Thanks, Tom.

I’m sure it’s just a coincidence.

Storz XR1200
Storz XR1200

Posted on Filed Under: China, Motorcycle Business, Motorcycle Design

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Comments

  1. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that some Chinese motorcycle manufacturers are copying motorcycle designs since some Chinese auto manufacturers are doing the same thing with cars.

    Still…a 250cc v-twin street tracker? Um, I’d buy it!

  2. 250 cc and looks like the HD XR1200? For around $3000 I would buy one. It would make a great commuter (hopefully good gas mileage) and plain fun bike. And saving around $8-10K compared to the HD – that would buy a lot of fortune cookies.

  3. These copy cats can only succede if people buy them, The Asian builders shamelessly copied English and American bikes and short sighted people buy them! I imagine the same folks will buy this stuff too. When they are out of work they will wonder why! I would rather wear a Timex than a FAKE Rolex, Wise up people

  4. Don’t be a traitor. Buy American. We already send most of our money to China by way of Walmart.

  5. The Wal-Mart mentality that is the US consumer sometimes makes be want to barf. Hi Bird Sport Cruiser…..please. I’d rather be without a bike than to purchase a blatant raping of a US design.

  6. Sharp lookin’ little number! And essentially a 250 Yamaha, what the Hell?
    I think it could be fun.

  8. If they legitimately bought the rights to use the engine design, what is it that are they copying? The style? Does HD have a trademark on “street-tracker” now? Hell I like it, its not like any other manufacturer is taking a stab a building a cool looking small displacement bike these days, well except for Suzuki’s rethink of the GZ250.
    Copycats, c’mon I gotta laugh when I think about all the cruiser clones that h ave been all the rage for the past decade.

  9. I experienced the chinese copying habit first hand at a former job while working with a group of six chinese engineers who were invited to visit a company I was working for in the 80’s. I had one of those pencil center punch tools that I had on the bench to layout a series of holes to drill and after laying the tool down and turning my back for a moment, I turned back to see my center punch tool carefully taken apart and three of the engineers were measuring each part while the others were recording and sketching it. I learned later that they had done the same thing with one of the ten-speed bicycles that they had been using to ride between the shop and the apartment they were staying in.

  10. it’s a Photoshop job. the whole front end and the back tire are pull right from another photo. check ou the space between the spokes. if it was lifted righ from a Storz pic i don’t know. Probably though.

  11. The Asian Cruisers are not all the rage, The makers loose money on every one they DUMP here! Hope fully the new President will enforce the laws against Dumping of these copy cat designs. H-D still owns the cruiser market despite the short sighted folks who partake of the imitators. The Asian makers make some nice bikes, Inline 4s come to mind, Crotch Rockets cant be denied, But how any one can settle for an imitation Cruiser is beyond me.

  12. I think what some are missing here is that people wouldn’t buy this instead of an H-D, but instead of a different 250. That’s a market segment that the beloved boys on Juneau wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole. They act like an 883 is a “women’s bike.”

  13. As with any brand not all HD owners are alike, I for one look forward to HDs recent buy up of MV Augusta/Cagiva as a way to get a nice small bike line up back into HD dealers. Not the MV but the Cagiva(Aermacchi) brand may be the real prize in the purchace. Of course I still think an 883 is all the bike most would ever need, If they rode within their own capabilitys.

  14. i think all this “buy American” is pretty narrow minded. enjoy a bike for what it is. if you don’t like the bike that’s fine, but it’s country of origin should have nothing to do with it. if a picture of a nice european cruiser pops up on the front page no one makes a fuss. but heaven forbid that someone in china wants to build a cruiser.

    i think the storz bike is a nice bike. i just don’t like the price tag that goes with it. so when i see a storz style bike with a smaller engine (which i prefer) i assume i’ll see a small price tag. i think it could be a bike that does well.

    and for you HD zealots i don’t think anyone interested in buying a big pig is going to be interested in this little runabout.

  15. If a pic of a nice european cruiser pops up I bet it wont have a V-Twin copy.The Europe designs have heritage to be proud of, Motto Guzzi, BMW boxer,Truimph. The Stortz bike is an optioned up HD Sportster, maybe you need to learn more about big pig Harleys before you denigrate them. The job you save may be your own, There are many reasons to buy American, keeping manufacturing in the U.S. is one of them.

  16. Certainly Yamaha can’t complain about the use of their engine design – the foundation of motorcycle side of that company was building copies of the DKW RT125!

  17. Hey taxman, your right, in your comment to Harley riders, anyone interested in a Harley or the Storz Harley would definitely not be interested in that girlyman version,but taxman, go for it.

  18. Tin Man 2,
    Moto Guzzis do have a V-twin.
    Lawrence of Arabia’s Brough had a V-twin.
    Harley’s V-twin (1909) is a “copy” of Indian’s (1903).
    Really, though, nobody can or has copyrighted a cylinder arrangement.

    The design of this bike is clearly “inspired by” the XR, just like Hyosung’s cruiser looks like a V-Rod, but it’s the appearance of the bike that’s a “copy”, not the arrangement of the cylinders.

  19. Good eye Dorzok!

    A Chinese cloner would never mount a huge daisy brake on the front of a 250! They’re businessmen and way too smart to waste money like that. What is this thing?

  20. Well, this has been educational. Apparently, it’s ok for Americans to copy other American designs, and nobody seems to raise a fuss when the Japanese do it these days. But, it’s not ok for Chinese. Ok, I got that straight.

    And the other thing, buy American or else you’re a traitor. Got it. I’ll be checking the stamp of origin on every single thing I purchase from now on, like a true patriot does.

  21. Most Harley parts are Taiwanese or Chinese.

    How many Americans would need to be employed to set up a business testing, licensing, importing, marketing, distributing, selling, insuring, and servicing this chinese motorcycle? About just as many as it would take to manufacture it here. The whole “Buy American” thing is a joke for narrow minded people who don’t understand commerce. If Harley bought the rights to import this and slap an H-D label on it it would be “American”, right? Actually, that’s not a bad idea.

    -todd

  22. The point of this post seems to have been missed by some of you. It isn’t “Buy American,” it simply points out the complete lack of effort or creativity shown by the company building this bike. It gives the impression of very little effort expended when offering a product so obviously based on the design of another bike. Is this type of imitation acceptable, does it even matter?

    The Chinese motorcycle industry is not just getting off the ground, they literally build millions of motorcycles every year. While many other countries and manufacturers copied designs when just starting out, they created their own designs soon thereafter, while in China, the idea of copying the work of others has become the norm and shows little indication of slowing down. At the current stage of their industrial development, you might expect to see some real innovation or creativity, instead we get endless examples like this. It puzzles me to no end.

  23. The chinese rip off everything, inclusing their own designs. It is not uncommon for a set of plans for a factory to go missing or get sold by a builder, and then down the road a company making the same exact product, but with a different name, goes online.

    Being a communist country for years doesn’t help the whole idea of intellectual property, when everything before (and many things still) belong to “the people”.

  24. I worked in the product design industry for years and the concept of intellectual property is clear, whether it’s song lyrics, music, or yes, even a design. If you copy something too literally, you are in effect stealing that thing you are copying.

    Harley for example, spends a lot of money on R&D and design, and for another company, whether it’s Chinese, Japanese or American to copy one of those designs too closely, means they don’t invest in the development costs. And can sell it more cheaply. And take business away from Harley. I think the math is fairly clear.

    Let’s not Walmart ourselves into another recession.

  25. History repeating itself, seems a lot of similar comments were made about japanese manufacturers in the 60’s and 70’s, and they’ve gone on to dominate almost every world market. The chances are the Chinese are going to do a repeat for a period.
    But lets be honest, the hydrocarbon-powered era is coming to a close and no matter how much the chinese or anyone else jumps on the band wagon, within 10-20 years it will be prohibitively expensive to drive, ride or steam around the world.
    Oh and tin man 2, keeping manufacturing in the US is great so long as you can do it competitively, but if the government is 11 trillion dollars in debt, and giving loans to the likes of GM, then something needs to change

  26. Phoebe,I think you have it wrong,most of the buy American thinkers really doen’t care what you buy,but the ones who buy foriegn and then bad mouth American products to justify thier buy or out of jealousy or ignorance that is what irritates.And Todd you said most Harley parts are made in China or Japan, you really are ignorant.The Kehein Carbs were but no Harleys are carburated anymore, and the front forks still are I think and maybe the instruments but that sure isn’t most of the bike nor any part of what makes it a Harley. And I think Kneeslider and Roderick’s statements are right on.

  28. For what it’s worth, Hi-Bird, aka ChongqingMotorcycle Industry, Inc is the parent company for Benelli. They have designers and engineers from all countries, and backgrounds. As far as style, the Street-tracker is nothing new, and has been a popular (in smallish circles) ‘custom’ job done to MANY different motorcycles. Storz is simply just ONE of these ‘Customs’. The new HD XR1200 is, again, just a ‘custom’, albeit a ‘factory custom’. For those of you who don’t understand, (and there seems to be ALOT of you) A “Street-Tracker” is a custom-built road-going motorcycle built to emulate a RACE BIKE. No one company ‘owns’ this design. No one company ‘originated’ this style. It is JUST a TYPE of bike. So it resembles (remakably) a STORZ XR… So what? Change the colours, and put a different profile pipe on it, and the similarities change… To just another ‘tracker. It’s a classic design, and it’s different in the marketplace. Do some further research and you’ll find ALOT of different mfg’s that have been customized to this aethetic, and they ALL look essentially the same.

    It’s a cool little bike, and a big change in marketing (for a Chinese-based company) versus the standard chopper and cruiser segment. If you don’t like it, don’t buy one.

    And for those of you who are still drinking the “Buy American” kool-aid, Please. In this world, and especcially this economy, World Commerce is the only thing that’s going to perpetuate any form of doing business, home or abroad. America simply doesn’t have the money, resources, or labor to undertake large-scale manufacturing aimed at keeping prices resaonable. There is NO WAY an American company could turn out 800,000+ units of ANYTHING like a complex vehicle per year. It just can’t be done. Not under one roof. This is how the Chinese are able to do it. One house, one facility.

  29. I withdraw my earlier comment about this being a fake. I checked the Hi Bird website and it appears to be a real bike. Copy or not, it’s a nice looking little machine.

    I suspect the Chinese are poised to storm the U.S. market with larger and more sophisticated bikes, quads and other powersports equipment. And if you think GM and Chrysler are hurting now by competition with Toyota and Hyundai, wait until the Chinese makers hit the U.S. automobile market. They may not be original, but they are relentless.

  30. Speaking of color, I heard that the Chinese put mother’s milk in their paint (It bumps up pigment density or something). You want a level playing field then ask legislators to impose manditory and effective quality assurance testing on EVERYTHING coming out of Asia, carry the burden with “port access” fees and reject anything known to cause cancer or birth-defects in the state of California. I think that Corporate America has behaved about as responsibly with respect to import/export strategy as the Banking sector did with sub-prime lending. I do R and D in the dwindling manufacturing base and have seen some wierd $hit in the last few years.

    Paulinator

  31. The company Building this bike is LAZY It’s the chinese Government! When is the international comunity going to tell them that intelectual theft is not acceptable?

  32. A good article Paul.

    I’m dissapointed by some of the responses in the comments though.

    The Asian manufacturing juggernaut works on only one principle and that is maximum volume of sales with minimum investment.
    There are plenty of good engineers and designers in Asia … but they are not being paid to produce quality in either area.

    You will not find a single product that comes from original design or development in China. They have no need to so why should they.

    If anyone has the luxury of making purchases based on principle then avoiding these Asian products is an understandable reaction.

  33. The Chinese bike industry is in a position similar to the Japanese bike industry circa 1950, except that the Chinese have lots of money available to them and the knowledge that there is a huge market out there for these bikes. They’ve got quality problems, and creativity problems, but this will not last. These are major competitors coming up, and they’re gonna accellerate commerically fast, as fast or likely faster than Honda did in the 60s.

  35. There are companies in China capable of putting together a copy of the Storz bike that would fool just about anyone from 5 feet away or less. This bike? I’d say “inspired by” describes it better than “copy of”. Personally, I like the street-tracker look, but having taken a close look at a Hi-Bird, I wouldn’t buy one because of quality concerns. Maybe that will change in a few years, maybe not.

  36. A Tom:
    Oops, sorry… you are right. My notes were incorrect. But, it does come down to only 4 or 5 major companies in China that do all of these. They are almost all associated in some way.
    Styling aside, the quality-control issues are still the major hurdle for Chinese bikes in the US. The problem is, everywhere else that these companies sell (and I mean evrywhere) the quality issues don’t seem to be an issue. So, why change? I mean, if they sell 800,000 units each year, and continue to increase sales, why change production quality? And really, the quality isn’t that much different than anything else we consumers buy/use everyday now anyway. The world economy has a ‘throw-away’ mentality anymore. Even beyond the ‘wal-mart’ culture. When my dad bought a car, he expected to keep it for YEARS… Now we’ve been conditioned to replace them every 2-3 years. And the quality-control reflects this. Unfortunatly, we can’t have both low price and excellent quality in one product. With most of the Chinese bikes I’ve seen/dealt with, the major concern is frames and electrics. The engines are good. After all, these companies are the same suppliers, in most cases, that the big 3 Japanese companies use.

  37. I’m not sure why everyone’s blaming the Chinese for ripping off everything when just about everybody in the world would rip off something if they could get away with it. Whether it’s music, movies, games, computer technology, vehicles, software, clothing, what have you, it all gets pirated, copied, or “inspired” by someone sooner or later. Nothing new here. Get used to it because it probably won’t change by just complaining about it.

  38. Freeman, you’re correct except for the “about everybody” part. There are, I hope, more honest people out there than you would think.

    But I’m not complaining about it, I am simply calling them on it. If no one says it’s wrong to pirate or copy someone else’s work, eventually, it becomes accepted practice. But, as your mother may have told you, “Everyone doing it doesn’t make it right.”

    When the digital transformation took place, there were no long standing social rules of behavior to guide people. Break into someone’s house and take something, clearly wrong, but is copying music wrong, or software or movies? Many people were not familiar with computer technology at first so everyone was on their own and, no guidance meant no rules and they copied everything they could get their hands on. When more people understood what was happening it was already too late.

    The Chinese issue is different, they often copy physical products. It is practically institutionalized, perhaps the country’s communist background with little regard for private property is the reason, but whatever the case, the time, talent and effort to create a design are not paid for, the design is copied and products are sold.

    Many essays by current “deep thinkers” justify widespread copying, and they try to come up with ways for creators to still benefit from their work. They’ll often cite the example of the band going on tour even though their albums are copied; they earn money from tickets concert goers buy “for the live experience.” Fine, but when you’re not referring to a band, the examples grow thin. No problem, they’ve made their point, you must understand and accept the new rules of this digital age.

    Well, I do understand, I just don’t agree.

    That said, this particular bike is not the best example for a debate of this part of the issue. While obviously modeled after the Storz bike, it is also obviously not promoted as the same thing. It might be accepted for what it is, a sort of scaled down low cost imitation and no real threat to the original. The real problems are the counterfeits passed off as real, this isn’t one of them. This might better serve as an example of a company taking a low effort shortcut for product development which I alluded to in my earlier comment, … another issue for another time.

  39. I am from a third world country, and we like HOGs even more than you do, the mystique of HD machines, the classic cruiser designs, etc, anyway, there’s NO WAY on earth a third world buyer could afford even an entry level HD bike, no way jose, one thing they can do though is buy a “rice burner” as the HD folks like to call metric bikes, and if one wants something that resembles a HD design, they would go for it.
    Notice something though, these Chinese bikes are mostly 50, 80, 110, 125, and 250 ccs, they would never sell in the good old US of A, but they sell pretty decently in third world countries, which is the REAL target market.
    As for design rights, and all that Jazz, go ask someone in Thailand, or Indonesia or India, or any other shit hole that belongs to the third world, they give a rat’s ass about intellectual property, most of them haven’t even heard of such a thing, and if you bring it up, they’ll laugh at you, doesn’t mean they are right, this is just a fact.
    More blatant violations of copyrights are the music and video industry, where they sell a pirated copy of ANY movie within a few days of its release for less than a dollar.
    This is NOT my kind of bike, but it definitely look good, as for costs for R&D, their engineers have to make it WORK, and work reliably, you CAN’T do that unless you are the original designer.
    let them have their shot at the American “mystique”, and if it’s for $3000, why not? they would NEVER EVER could afford a HOG or even a small Harley.

  40. Hey Mouka,

    I spent some time in Asia and amidst millions of scooters, saw these shinny little Harley-“inspired” 150cc bikes that did what they were supposed to do – stand out from the crowd (did I mention the crowds?). You could spot the owners because they were always close to their bikes, always wearing Pleather jackets and always grinning “toothey” grins. Limited resources well spent in a restricted market!!!

    Put those bikes and those dudes in a North American or European setting and the whole thing just gets really nerdy. Get an Enduro instead.

  41. I think that soon China will have a big impact on the motorcycle world. They already are, they’ve made huge inroads in the scooter market with their very low cost, albeit piece of crap machines. Motorcycles are next, they have already gotten started by making sales inroads of “QLink” and “CF Moto”. As time goes on, I predict Chinese manufacturing will only improve and what was once seen as junk will turn into quality bikes. Maybe they’ll start giving the majors (honda, harley, yamaha etc) a run for their money at that time. As far as the poster who said the era of transportation is coming to an end, I don’t think so. It will change but not end. More electric vehicles, but also running strictly on ethanol. Brazil is already doing it, getting all their fuel from sugar cane. It can’t be that hard to adapt motorcycles to that.

  43. I get really disappointed reading some of the comments here. De ja vous all over again!!
    This is not about piracy or copying or intellectual property. This is about “HOW THE REAL WORLD WORKS!!

    Some years ago, I worked overseas for a large American company preeminent in their field of designing, building, selling & servicing offshore oil well drilling rigs. They figured out that if they kept the “core technology” at home but had the assembling & building done in a third world country, they could sell to their customers (mainly American drilling companies) an adequate acceptible vessel at a reduced price. So along with a couple of dozen other expats, I helped build a shipyard, train the workers, & help get “the business plan” working over there.

    5 years later, I was disemployed, my job being taken over by smart capable local people some of whom I had trained to do exactly that. I’d had a good 5 years of work that I enjoyed with people that I enjoyed in a place that I’d enjoyed so I took my life & moved on.

    The shipyard ended up in the hands of local companies, doing the work that we had trained them to do. The workers we trained in their dozens are now in their thousands & compete both locally & internationally with our yards here at home. Now our shipyard workers are finding it hard to remain employed in the business while THEY plan to open yards in China. (& Vietnam, etc)

    That’s what is going on here. Some very smart dedicated people have used their “long eyes” to look far ahead, plan accordingly, spend the time, effort, & resources to get good at something (building bikes in this case) & now they are continuing to move forward.

    At present, they may be aiming mainly at a different market (third world & emerging countries) where the appetite for transportation is HUGE & growing fast. Their main cash cows are the 50’s, 90’s, 125’s etc. that are readily snapped up by people who are trying to make their own lives better. The Hi Bird Moto “250 Sport Cruiser” is a niche market special to help them sell in India or Turkmenistan or Tibet or Pakistan or Indonesia or… Then, North America & Europe & on.

    “Trade Protection” by any name is an effort to control the market so that “I can continue to profit from it by eliminating the competition!” It’s not new. The Romans were experts at it during their day. We’re fairly good at it now-a days. But It’s only one way to remain profitable in the market. The other recognised path seems to require us to remain competitive. There’s folks been preaching this for years!

    Think back to when the Japanese & Taiwanese & Koreans flooded our markets with poor quality (crappy junk if you will) cars. We didn’t effectively protect our market share then & while “THEY” continued to improve their products, what did Detroit do? Did their quality improve? Did they develop products that were ever better? Or did they just wrap another flashy body around a dated chassis & sell it as the new model for this year.

    Get into gear folks! The rest of the world is not waiting for us! Wanna prosper? Then compete! But have a long term plan in mind, set short term goals & achieve them. Just like THEM! There’s folks been preaching this for years so the information is out there!

    Rafe03

    Sorry about the excessive verbosity but the world doesn’t happen in 30 sec sound bites! Please feel free to trim to suit. Or just into the bin! It’s economics, not bugs in the teeth!

    I don’t seem to know very much about anything anymore. The more I learn, the more there is to learn. The more I see, the less I seem to know. Maybe I should learn to speak Mandarin & help my grandchildren with their Mandarin lessons.

    Rafe03

  44. Hi Bird looks much better than the HD. But then again I have never seen a HD that I liked. If I had a big enough boat I would love a HD anchor.

  45. Azzy wrote: “The chinese rip off everything, including their own designs. It is not uncommon for a set of plans for a factory to go missing or get sold by a builder, and then down the road a company making the same exact product, but with a different name, goes online. ”

    Too true. That’s exactly how the U.S. “Chinese invasion” of motorcycles began. I want to say back around 2003 or thereabouts a company called “Sundiro” entered into a contract with Honda to produce and sell a 250 Rebel clone. At the time Sundiro was China’s fourth largest motorcycle/scooter manufacturer. The Rebel clone never came to be as Sundiro folded up shop within the same year of said contract. About six months after Sundiro dried up and fell off the map, no fewer than six other companies were belting out this same Rebel clone. I’ve lost track of how many are using the engine and basic bike design today — Tank, Baja Motorsports, Johnny Pag (google that last one, they’re actually pretty neat), etc.

    Now we have these companies like Lifan and Vento belting out 250 Virago clones, and here’s yet another one…

  46. Chinese bikes are junk. Relatively speaking of course.

    They’re made cheap. China could make a quality bike, if they wanted to. But it wouldn’t be cheap anymore, and nobody would buy it. So they are kind of stuck, in doing what they do.

    I got into riding when I bought a chinese scooter. A piece of krap that I loved and made me realize how much I enjoyed being on two wheels. I later bought a honda shadow and then a suzuki intruder, neither of which I would have ever bought, had I not started on that chinese pos. So in a way they can help big makers, by bringing new people into the bike market who are not ready yet to make a large financial comittment. Once they realize how much they like riding, they’re likely to save up for a “real” bike.

  47. yes,chinese bike is junk,but you should know how much you pay for it. the export price just 30% of the retail prices. when you purchase a chinese bike,it’s a idea stay in your head that chinese bike must be cheap.if you want a better one,why you dont want to pay a little bit more?
    before I worked with one big american after service parts distributor and try to make the HD parts in China. right now most of parts they purchase from China.I have been to US many times,I just want to make a small bike,but same noise,same stay as HB, let the people have not enough money, or young boys,they can get a fun beginner bike.
    most of parts I use CNC,the Tig welding frame.the disc brake is total different as other chinese bike,but cost much money, I dont mind lost,just for fun to do this. I hope someone dont hate chiense bike,give us a space to grow up. I dont think our bikes will take the HD market. but we can make the HD market bigger.