The Kneeslider

Doers Builders and Positive People

Buell Planning Competition Dirt Bikes?

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Browsing a couple of the Buell forums, I found several references to a Buell dealer meeting that just took place. In that meeting, the dealers were told that Buell was planning to introduce a complete line of competition dirt bikes within two years. Details were sketchy, what engine would be used was not disclosed, whether these would be derivatives of current bikes or totally new was also not known. There was also mention of some sort of Buell Hypersport bike.

I'm not exactly sure what they mean by dirt bikes, would these be MX bikes or flat track or what? Who would they be competing against because there is some pretty well entrenched competition in that segment. A nice flat track style street bike would be neat but serious competition? Hmm ...

On the hypersport side of things, that is anyone's guess.

All of this was mentioned at the meeting and that's as far as the information goes. If a knowledgeable insider would care to comment, please feel free to jump in. Maybe that's why there were a couple of XBRRs for sale on ebay recently. Maybe they're changing direction. Interesting. File this under "yes, no, maybe."

UPDATE: According to Motocross Illustrated magazine (MXi) Buell will be building a motocross motorcycle powered by a 450cc liquid cooled 4 stroke Rotax engine.

Buell could theoretically break cover with the bike in 2008 and race it under the AMA rule that allows a one-year exemption from the production rule for prototype motorcycles – the same way that Yamaha did with its YZ400F in 1997. MXi cannot confirm that Buell currently has such a plan, however.

The dealer source did say that Buell plans to produce the motocross version first, before moving into other segments of the off-road market, such as enduro and supermoto.

MXi via SpeedTV via Bad Weather Bikers

Comments

  1. H-D has worked with Rotax before assembling non US market military enduros; the MT350E. Maybe this is an extension of that practice. I don’t think Harley or Buell has the right kind of talent on board to develop OEM competitive thumpers, but Rotax has.

    A number of years ago, Harley was considering buying KTM and maybe now they are in talks with ATK (?). I know ATK has struggled getting any decent sized market behind their bikes and distribution and logistics along those lines has also been quite a hurdle. An agreement with Buell in what would be a rebadging effort and a fresh infusion of cash with an already established dealer network, brand identity, and customer base is a win-win for both companies.

    I’d like to see what becomes of this!

    -todd

  2. BTW, the Harley MT350E was a licensed copy of an Armstrong 500 (CCM designed) built in Pennsylvania. Maybe the new Buell bikes will be CCMs (British).

    -todd

  3. “There was also mention of some sort of Buell Hypersport bike.”

    Kneeslider – what do you mean by “Hypersport” ? Motard-style bike or Supersport (as in road race)?

  4. hoyt, I have no answer. I wasn’t at the meeting. This was the term used and my impression of it may be totally different than what they meant so fill in your own blanks.

  6. Many people seem to be thinking “hypersport” means Hyabusa or ZX14, but that doesn’t seem to fit either Buell’s philosophy or the idea of them getting into dirt-bikes.

    If they’re developing new engines for dirt-bikes (and, logically, putting those engines in their streetbikes) the engines are likely to be light-weight . . . more KTM than Hyabusa.

    But I guess time will tell . . . though at 2 to 3 years, that will be a long wait.

  7. light-weight? “…developing new engines for dirt-bikes …” sportbike, single perhaps?

    That doesn’t really fit ‘hypersport’, either, but a lightweight sportbike single will be great, especially since Cagiva should be producing their Mito 500

  8. Very interestin post over on Badweatherbikers from Josh Cox (who I believe was one of the orginal sources for the word “hypersport”.

    http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=158664&post=825985#POST825985

    “I was in a class this weekend. Buell had labeled classes of bikes. Buell also mentioned recently they were building dirtbikes within two years and also mentioned hypersports. In the competitive model chart, the Ducati 1098 was the only bike listed under hypersport. Before I thought maybe they were doing a Busa or ZX14 type of bike, but they printed 1098 under hypersport.”

    Hypersport = Ducati 1098? I love the sound of that, though it’s certainly a lofty goal. Personally, I’d put that in the “I’ll believe it when I see it” catagory”

  9. I think Ducati is the only company to use the word hypersport on their website to describe a market segment, so if that’s what Buell is aiming at, they have their work cut out for them.

  10. True.

    I like the target though. I’d much rather see them at least shooting for the 1098 than the Hyabusa. I wouldn’t put a lot of faith in them hitting either target, but I’d rather have them falling a little short of the 1098 than falling a little short of the Hyabusa.

  11. You know, the Motoczys (sp?) is a beautiful bike, and I’d love to have one, but I have a feeling their business plan will kill them long before they build a bike I can afford.

    The Fischer looks like a very promising bike, but even with it’s “modern” engine, a stock XB12R will likely beat it on any track.

    There was some hope that the KTM/Polaris deal could lead to some interesting things, but the way things have been going, I’m not sure if there’s much hope left there.

    I’ve always thought that Buell is our best chance of actually getting a true, US superbike. If this rumor is true and they’re actually working on one, that’s great news.

    I hope they can pull it off.

  12. If any one does have the resouces to do this, it would most certainly be H-D/ Buell. Without the cash, you don’t play the game.

  13. If this is true, the next couple of years will be fascinating….and I’m glad the target is the 1098.

    There’s no reason it can’t be done if HD keeps the treasure chest open long enough (and I like both Ducati & Buell). Let the competition begin.

    Aprilia v4
    Ducati 1098
    Buell

  14. It adds a whole new perspective to the XBRR race program. One thing I always hear is that Jeremy McWilliams is a great “development” rider. He apparently offered some key advice that helped them set up the race bike . . . and would probably also be very useful for a future platform.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if they also took some time to sit him down and pick his brain on what kind of features/specifications he’d like in a new engine.

    If an XB chasis – with a Harley engine – can keep on the heels of inline 600’s, imagine what it could do with a Rotax.

    And one more thing with the XBRR – that big, ugly fairing would do a pretty good job of hiding a new engine, wouldn’t it?

    If anyone is running track days in the Wisconsin area and you happen to see an XBRR running laps . . . you might want to take a better look . . . there could be more than meets the eye.

  15. anyone remember the aermacchi harleys? the only way they could win gp races was to buy an established winner… so who makes crate engines? rotax does – and the aprillia twin wouldn’t need much work to boost output (slot a big bore kit in there that is already likely being developed to compete with the 1098?)

  16. This is long overdue! Erik Buell is the shining star at H-D and I bet he’s got some great ideas for new EXCITING bikes. Please throw in a 650cc thumper while you’re at it too! 😉