The Kneeslider

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Brammo to Install 6 Speed Transmission in Empulse as Standard Equipment

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Brammo Empulse to get 6 speed integrated transmission

Back in May we reported Brammo obtained the exclusive global license for the 6 speed integrated transmission for electric motorcycles that would be used in a couple of their upcoming models, the Engage and Encite. Based on communications to customers who have pre-ordered the Empulse, Brammo has confirmed the 6 speed shifter will be integrated into the Empulse as standard equipment.

Brammo has been doing a lot of testing in the electric racing circuit so I think they have some very good data on which to base their decision. Though some of you see no reason for a transmission, they seem to feel otherwise. Interesting.

Comments

  1. I still don’t see the reason for a transmission in an electric bike — However, the boys at Brammo are the experts, and if they find advantages, who am I to argue? I’m thinking that with the already massive torque the motor makes at zero rpm, with a gearbox acceleration would be insane. And, as with IC engines, the motor cold be made smaller and optimized for efficiency in a given speed range for max performance. As for the styling; I’m a traditionalist so it’s not my cup of meat, but it is an attractive package. Brammo obviously put a lot of thought into integrating the battery with the bike rather than simply bolting it in. Good job!

    Now, let’s get to work on research to double the battery’s capacity. Then we’ll have something!

  2. That sounds like too much fun to me, count me in!! (who cares about max torque @ zero rpms) let that motor spin!!!

  3. I agree with B50 Jim. There really is no reason for the added weight of a gearbox. If you have a high quality electric motor, you should be able to spin that baby up to insane rpm’s while still maintaining the same amount of torque. Plus, making a link directly to the motor eliminates power waste even further.

    On another note, I hop I see a bike like the on on Akira; electric motors in the wheel would be sweet!

    PS. These captchas are intense, I can’t even read them. Please consider another captcha service.

    • They can be a bit tough. If you can’t read the captcha, get another challenge by hitting the top little button with the two curved arrows, you’ll get something new and sometimes a bit easier.

  4. If they sell more bikes this way, it is a fine idea. Jjust hope they also keep an auto option. Never saw the reason to change gear on my regular bikes (but then I never got around to buying a Moto Guzzi Convert either).

  5. Why do people put an “s” at the end of RPM? It shows quick a lack of knowledge. It’s not Revolutions Per Minutes!

    • Because the s isn’t for minute, but for revolutionS. Maybe it’s not correct, but looks it’s spread. Like KMs for kilometres (km) and others.

      As other commentators, I don’t clearly see the point of having a 6-speed gearbox on a electric bike. More parts, more price, more problems… Increased performance or mileage?

      • Actually, you don’t say kms for kilometers. You just use km. This helps to prevent confusion with other units that might include seconds at the end, like Newton-seconds.

  6. Electric motors have a peak efficiency rpm, just like internal combustion engines. Maybe Brammo has determined that their particular combination of battery/motor/controller works bests within a narrower range of rpm than is available using one gear.

  7. The big question I have is why are they putting the transmission on the production bike but the racing version has only one gear? I have serious doubt regarding the durability of an ev transmission so racing one could convince me of that.

  8. the gearing is not simply keeping the motor in the torque band, it is to maintain RPM in the best range for battery use, and heat build up.
    also as found in other electric bike

  9. In other industries, there are transmissions coupled to electric motors. The amperage needed to spin a motor faster will deplete the batteries faster. Electric motors can be designed for torque or RPM, same as an ICE motor. Hopefully this transmission isn’t just a gimick to get people to feel like they are on a real bike. I am hoping there is an actual advantage with it.

  10. Man, this topic has been bantered around a lot.

    Parallel shaft gearboxes don’t eat up much energy…I believe its in the order of 2 to 3 percent. If they robbed any more power they would self-destruct very quickly from the heat. Electric motors have efficiency “soh-weeet spots” that drive-ratio changes could capitalize on for enhanced performance and range…so I’m on team gearbox.

    Actually I’m on team ICE with a gearbox until new Chinese-monopolized battery technology stops emitting green toxic clouds that cause the undead to walk the earth in search of brains.

  11. That bike is looking pretty nice. Count this as something that 10 years ago I would’ve thought was much further off.

  12. I noticed Bartel’s HD in Marina Del Rey CA has a big Brammo logo painted on the wall of their used bike building now. Might be the only way I’d ever give those guys money for anything other than Buell parts again….

  13. I like how electric bikes have been progressing. However, the price still has a way to go. I don’t know if their range values apply to the real world, but 14k+ for “100+ mile” range is a bit steep. I haven’t been able to find an independent review of this bike either from just a quick google search. All I’ve found is sites regurgitating the same pictures and info on Brammo’s site and claiming it’s a review.

    By the way. I second the captcha thing as mentioned by Will. Right now I’m looking at one, and the first word is literally upside down.

  14. Love those wheels. WIsh those came on my Fz8.
    As for the transmission. maybe it will allow more autonomy, more pleasure to ride, and convice more customers to make the move. Nice looking bike.

  16. While we talk about transmission or no transmission, let’s hope somebody is desperately developing The New Battery cells we all are waiting for. Without those, in mass production, all electric vehicles are …like a dead end street. We may use them in various forms of racing, but for everyday use they need that next big step forward. Now!

  17. Well sorry but first off I need to let it be known I like many others including Peter Brock think this whole E/V as well as Hybrid thing is a giant Black Hole waiting to be filled with the waste and residue of this unfortunate and ill conceived trend

    Second , its completely counter productive from an engineering stand point to place a power sapping transmission on an E/V motor that neither needs ti , nor will benefit from its presence

    Lastly an E/C automobile is in and of its self pretentious , non viable as well as not at this point in the history of technology ( batteries etc ) usable and functional in the real world

    So take the above for E/V autos Times 100 and thats the state of the E/V motorcycle in a nutshell

    • Adding a transmission is not counter productive. Anything that can increase the torque applied to the rear wheel is a net gain.

      I see a number of electric vehicles being put to good, practical use every day; your comment not withstanding.

      -todd

    • We use electric vehicles all over the factory at my work. There’s no saying they don’t have their current applications. With time and development, they will become useful in other applications.

  18. I’m excited about Brammo’s bikes. I’m not worried about range. 100 miles is more than enough for most of the riding I do. I like riding to work, and that’s about 15 miles round trip. 99% of my afternoon or evening fun rides are less than 100 miles.

    I’ve done my share of longer rides, and I’d love to do more, but making time for that is difficult these days. This looks like a bike that could fulfill almost all of my riding needs.

    Despite my love for the ICE, I’m really excited about EVs. Electricity is the energy currency of the future. With it, you will be able to power anything, and it will be made from many sources.

  19. I’m siding with team gearbox here. Brammo has got the right idea. Without a gearbox you would drastically shorten your range whenever you wanted to have any fun. Brammo’s giving us a way to get more performance out of the bike without sacrificing as much juice.

    As for a gearbox on their racebike? Efficiency is less of an issue on the circuit. My bike needs to get me to work and back and anywhere interesting I see on the way. A race bike just needs to get to the finish line.

  20. If you do the math, you will quickly see that practical electric vehicles need transmissions. There is no other way if you want quick acceleration and fast cruising speed.

  21. So if the EV is a pretentious, ill-conceived fashion trend, what will we be riding in the future? Oil as a source of fuel is going to become prohibitively expensive in the next 20-30 years. It is running out and at an ever faster rate too. Fuel cell vehicles sound great but they’ll cost a fortune. Biofuels can only work if second generation types from waste materials prove economic and we can’t use foodstocks as at present or the world population will starve. Right now EVs are about the only proposition for personal mobility we can rely on. They will get better. Bikes like this Brammo shows how far development has come already.

    So how much does the gearbox in the Brammo weigh anyway?

    • Like all the electric and hybrid cars currently on the market, the batteries on these will eventually wear out. Then what? Do we send them all to China or India to be broken down for their recyclable components? Do we poison their children and not ours so we can feel better about ourselves for saving the planet by using electricity to recharge these batteries? (Ever wonder where your laptop that you are reading this post on will end up someday?) In a few years do we spend a few thousand to replace a battery pack on a bike or car that is worth less than the battery?) Electric cars, electric bikes – powered by storing energy derived by burning fossil fuels or nuclear-generated electricity may make many of us feel better about ourselves. But I am certainly not convinced that they are much of a “solution” to the problem. I am not offering that solution – just observing that they are not it. Not in my lifetime at any rate. I am no scientist or engineer of course. Just a skeptic…Hydrogen fuel cells, anyone?

  22. Team gearbox as well…. but make it an option. Looks like it would be fun. Range is good… I just need the price to come down a wee bit before I’m in.

  23. Will gladly accept the data showing otherwise, but I think that the money spent on the gearbox, along with the weight and drag, won’t increase speed and range for the same amount of money spent on more batteries.

    • gearboxes have been around for 100 years, and are tried and true. All you have to do is buy one and slap it in. Batteries, on the other hand, take millions in high-risk investments to turn out anything even remotely useful. I’d pick a couple hundred bucks for a plug-and-play solution over a couple million on a gamble which, even if it does prove successful, will take years to bring to market.

      • I can get lithium batteries anywhere and build my own pack – where can you buy these “Plug and play” (a term used for electrical things, right?) gearboxes?

  24. I think a gearbox can make them limit the amp draw from high RPMS, making for a lighter and cheaper controller, and an overall simpler system. Kudos.

  25. I’m far from an expert on electric motors, but, wouldn’t more rpm’s require more (battery) power? If you can get the same torque from a low rpm why not convert that to higher wheel speed through a transmission?

    • because, any time you “gear up” you reduce the amount of torque applied to the rear wheel. Lower ratios give the motor more leverage when needed – like acceleration.

      Think of a dirt bike; with a large rear sprocket you can pull wheelies and climb mountains with very little torque from the motor. Stick a street sprocket on the rear and you might not be able to pull away from a stop with the exact same torque at the motor. A transmission is like having a quick change rear sprocket.

      -todd

  26. Actually if you do the math you’ll find out even quicker that a transmission on an E/V is counterproductive , saps HP , adds weight as well as complexity to the system .

  27. Until I’m able to design, produce and sell an E-bike that can compete with the Brammo, I won’t ciriticize their choice of gearbox. Some folks here should do the same …

  28. In my opinion, given current range capabilities electric vehicles are not an option as a sole mode of transportation for most people. I think they are perfect as a second vehicle though. The price needs to come way down to justify a second vehicle though.

    As far as the Captcha issue goes I saw a program on PBS that said it is being used to decipher old books scanned into digital archives that standard conversion software couldn’t figure out. Some whizz kid from MIT wrote the code.

  29. I’m giving away a fortune right now but here is how to solve the EV range issue:
    Use replaceable batterys! When your cordless drill runs out of juce, you dont stop working for 3 hours, just switch in a new battery. Existing gas stations will carry a stash of fully charged batterys. Pull in, an attentant comes out and swaps out your dead batterys for charged ones. Pay ’em for their electricity and service and away you go. They can charge the batterys over night and replace them when they go bad.

    Gas stations still make their money, range becomes unlimited and it is just as convenient as our current system. The only obsticle would be agreeing on a standard design for batterys so they are one-size-fits-all.

    • I think this is the idea behind Better Place?.

      I personally like the idea of a charged liquid electrolyte that you pump like gasoline. BEST OF BOTH WORLDS.

    • It would be convenient if it could be pulled off. I have my doubts of a “one-size-fits-all” battery but that’s not to say it can’t be done.

  30. You are making me do a back of the napkin calculation aren’t you. Some rough calculations here:

    Take a 250 street bike, which would be the optimistic equivalent of the Brammo, They have about 20ftlbs of torque, about 35HP. Assume chassis are the same with an electric bike (same wheel size). In first gear, the counter sprocket puts out 35HP, but because of the transmission (1.80) and primary reduction (3.0) it has 108ftlbs of torque available at the counter shaft and 408ftlbs at the rear wheel with the sprocket reduction. Thats alot of torque, but more importantly it has 35HP that is available within a second of a full throttle clutch dump. If you could put a 35HP electric motor in the same chassis, at best it would be about 1/5 the state-of-the-art Tesla motor listed here: http://webarchive.teslamotors.com/performance/acceleration_and_torque.php

    So, the mini-tesla bike motor puts out 60ftlbs of torque. Gearing it so that it has the same take off as the gas bike, would be a 6.8 reduction. This electric motor may run up to 12,000 RPM (not that you would want to) which would give the bike a top speed of 70km/hr (courtesy motorcycle gearing worksheet).

    You would need at least one other gear and probably two to make to make it practical since at high revs the efficiency drops dramatically. You don’t ride your gas bike around in first gear all the time, same for the electric version. If you wanted to run it at its sweet spot that would be around 5000RPM which is 30KPH without a transmission.

  31. Sounds like:
    bzz…bzzzii…bbzzzziiiii…bzzzzzzziiiiiiiiiiiiii…bbzzzzzzzzziiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii…bbbzzzzzzziiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!
    with most of the noise coming from gears. Sound weird uh?
    conclusion: a three gear transmission with a direct drive in the 3rd would do the same job with less parts, six gears are for engines with a limited torque range (like those crazy turbo diesels cars we have here in Europe or Honkawasuki GPZRXZZ600F with torque peak between 25000 and 29000 rpm ).

  32. Sorry, they can put an Eaton Ultrashift in if they like, I just find no interest in the concept.

  33. I’ve always enjoyed shifting motorcycles. I enjoy shifting my car. Not shifting reduces my enjoyment of a vehicle. It’s one reason I ignore my wife’s comments about getting a scooter. Sure, a tranny on an electric vehicle may reduce efficiency and have more parts that get more wear and be more expensive to build, but I bet I would enjoy an electric motorcycle more if it had some means of shifting gears…and I bet a lot of riders agree with me.

      • lol…that’s great rohorn

        Really though, driving an automatic car (on most city streets and highways) is one of the most boring activities I can think of. To me, that’s why cars have sound systems – a tool to keep the driver awake.

  34. Just replaced my battery for my Dewalt drill..$80. Can’t begin to imagine what these will cost.

  35. I agree with MadJack – the gearbox isn’t for efficiency or speed – its to give the rider something to do.

  36. Oh Boy, now for some real burnouts! Is there a place on the swingarm to closepin some playing cards so it sounds like a motorcycle?

    • Ditto.

      Gearboxes give you shift points.
      Shift points combined with audio cue’s are a lot more important in the psychology of speed/acceleration than many people realize.

      All you need to due to see an audio cue’s effect on perceived speed is play your favorite racing simulator video game with the sound off.

  37. A 440 Roadrunner could have got by with a single speed slush box with its high torque output, but why limit yourself. The same people who are impressed with 8 speed automatics in foreign cars with high HP low torque engines can’t seem to understand why a gearbox on an electric bike would help. What is the market for Electric bikes? 2% maybe, What a waste of resources, the ICE is and will remain the power of choice for our lifetime as it continues to evolve, despite the Internet Tech Dreamers wishes.

    • at some point, ICE cars were 2% maybe of the market, while 98% were horses and buggies, right, but some tech dreamers changed it up to the point you got your beloved 440 Roadrunner.

      • Let it be noted that the Automobile did not need Government Subsidies to compete with the Horse, Autos won out on Merit, not political B.S.

  38. Well I think a transmision can be useful on an electric vehicle, but a 6 speed sounds like way too many gears matched to the broad torque band of an electric motor. More hassle and complexity than is needed imho. Perhaps a wide ratio two or three speed would be a better match to this application.

    As far as those who knock them don’t buy one, they certainly aren’t for everyone and I couldn’t spend 14k on any bike at this juncture but I still love innovation. This is from a guy who thinks Al Gore is a whack job nut case and global warming is as real as weapons of mass destruction were in Iraq. What is real is most the oil we purchace is from countries who harbor countless enemies of ours in their midst, so giving them less money might not be all bad. So I hope hybrid technology works out for national security purposes more than polar bears.

    I looked seriously at the zerox line up but the cost and range were not enough with a 20 mile commute one way, so I bought a 250cc dual sport that gets 75mpg and I actually love riding it. If anybikes are in our work parking lot mine almost certainly will be. Yes on that note if anyone is looking for inexpensive rain gear frog toggs come highly recomended.

    Brammo keep up the good work hope your company survives nice to have American companies do well.

  39. HEY does it have a clutch as well? Maybe it won’t do a burnout. Does the clutch work like my old CZ? That is, when you step on the shift lever a cam works the clutch as well. That was handy when I had a bag of groceries in my clutch arm. That feature was handy in the early motocross too. Everybody had there left hand in the air but the CZ riders were in gear anyway. Does it need a clutch? When the electric trottle is “off” the motor just stops, right? Start off in Stump Puller mode or as high a gear as the motor will handle without smokin’ the wiring.

  40. Mr. Ryanol brings up a point about how the thing sounds as it goes thru the gears. Who wants to watch a race when the bikes are going by and they’re all just whining or humming. Electric motors aren’t too exciting to listen to. Hey man,roubjus and was that a three phase or just an old single phase he’s runnin? EH

  41. I didn’t make up the word roubjus. It popped in there when I tried to type in the little puzzle thingy at the bottom. That is a pain…

  42. I am no expert and won’t srgue with people who know much better than I do about the merits and demerits of a gearbox on an electric motorcycle, but as someone who has been riding for a long time, I think a gearbox will make the Empulse feel more “normal” especially for those of us who are long in the tooth. Brammo seem to be doing their best to make their motorcycles feel as much like conventional ones as possible and that cannot be a bad thing.

  43. Your legs have full torque at zero RPM on your bicycle; between 120 – 160 ft-lb worth. Why on earth does your bike have 21 speeds?

    It still takes on average 3 or 4 times the amount of torque that a typical electric motor puts out to equal the amount of torque available at the rear wheel of a gas powered motorcycle. If you don’t feel like installing huge, heavy motors and massive batteries and wires, install a transmission for the same result.

    -todd