BMW S1000RR World Superbike
April 16th, 2008 by Paul Crowe - "The Kneeslider"
The first photos of the not very well kept secret BMW S1000RR Superbike were released today. BMW is planning to take on the rest of the major manufacturers in contending for the WSB title, beginning in 2009. They will be building a limited number for road use to meet homologation requirements.
More details as they become available.
More photos below:
via Motoblog.it
Posted in Motorcycle Business, Motorcycle Design, Motorcycle Racing
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48 Responses to “BMW S1000RR World Superbike”
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April 16th, 2008 at 10:09 am
While it’s a sharp bike, I’m bored of the design already.
April 16th, 2008 at 11:19 am
So what powers this thing? It doesn’t look like a boxer engine considering how thin it looks. i4? v4? what is it?
April 16th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Nice, wonder how much that’s gonna go for? Wait a minute, the cyclinders are vertical, where’s the boxer layout?
April 16th, 2008 at 11:48 am
Looks like a Yamasakikowanda to me! Where is the BMW innovation?
April 16th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
I agree, it looks like an early R1. Oh well.
From another site:
“The target is 190kg with 190bhp for the road bike. It will come with a quickshifter, Ohlins front and rear, Brembo brakes and there’s a lot of talk about the engine’s head too; something is special about it, there’s a possibility it contains pneumatic valves but BMW are being really cagey about it all.”
Given that the new CBR1000RR is under that weight wet, BMW could be on a hiding to nothing here…
April 16th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
What can i say…. WOW!
If it wasn’t for the S-model designation i’d say the engine had the same basic layout as the new K1200’s, anyone know if i’m wrong? Also what are those things running parallel to the forks? Some kinda anti-dive system, completely unrelated or part of the calipers
April 16th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Well, painfully boring looks aside; lets hope it’s a rocket on the track!
April 16th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
motoxyogi,
That thing parallel to the forks ( only on the right ) looks like a linear pressure transducer to me. Maybe to take data on suspension travel or for some fancy active suspension, I’m leaning toward the data though.
Is this proof that even BMW thinks the boxer is not competitive?
April 16th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
The forks look like the same units as on the Desmosedici RR, if so the additional part of the fork is a volume compensation system since the forks are pressurized. They need that extra volume to control the pressure when the heat builds up.
April 16th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
BMW already proved the Boxer is competitive in the Daytona 200. Keep in mind, that is an air-cooled boxer finishing 5th & 6th in its maiden outing.
Competitive on Superbikes? BMW tried a liquid-cooled boxer years ago. Alan Cathcart had a chance to ride it. It is an interesting read.
Boxer in theory not competitive? Ask Porsche what they think. The design is superb.
When it comes to a motorcycle application at the highest production racing class, the boxer layout has aspects to contend with (just as ANY engine has challenges to contend with). The net affect may not be as great on other engine layouts for a given purpose/application.
It is fascinating how certain parts of the world apply in-line engines whereas others stick to v or “L” configurations.
The styling of this one is painfully unoriginal
April 16th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
The biggest technical challenge that I see on the surface with a boxer engine versus an I-4 or a V-twin is width. (Parallel twins are also fairly narrow, but I’m going to ignore them for the moment as there aren’t any in major racing series that I’m aware of.)
Motorcycles are essentially fixed in their vertical dimension; an inch or two isn’t going to make a great difference in frontal area to create drag. However, a boxer engine of fairly “normal” bore and stroke dimensions (without making it terribly oversquare) is much wider than a comparable I-4 or V-twin.
That additional width — and if I had to take a guess, I’d say that BMW’s boxer twin is at least six inches wider than a comparable I-4 and probably a foot wider than a Ducati V-twin — makes for a fairly large drag penalty in the form of increased frontal area.
It’s not insurmountable, but in an otherwise identical bike, the boxer engine probably has four or five horsepower of additional drag to overcome due to the increased frontal area, and that’s a pretty big deficit when you’re talking about an engine that only makes 150 bhp or so.
Obviously it’s about more than just raw engine power and attendant form drag. One of the big advantages of a boxer is its lower center of gravity, for example.
However, another big drawback of a wider engine is restriction on lean angle, which plays a much bigger role in a road course series like WSB than it would on a banked oval like Daytona. Remember, BMW’s boxers can’t lean too far without dragging a head; good luck trying to drag a clutch or primary cover on an I-4 or V-twin without dropping the bike
The boxer engine design is a fine design for many things, but I certainly understand why BMW wouldn’t choose to use it in this case. It wouldn’t be my first choice of engine designs for WSB or MotoGP either.
cl
April 16th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Yawn!
April 16th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
whats to gain here ?
bmw wont beat the major 4 at their own game ie an inline motor, 4 against 1 and the depth of their combined knowledge in this realm cannot be matched
there is an admission here that the boxer is flawed (but charming) as an ultimate bike soloution, by virtue of this product
finally as per other posters did they set out blend the design styles of japanese into one anonymous pointy thing ??
April 16th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
“there is an admission here that the boxer is flawed (but charming) as an ultimate bike soloution, by virtue of this product”
I don’t understand your claim of an ‘admission’.
BMW has made several engine configurations…some of the most diverse & innovative, especially for a company of its size.
(triples, parallel twins, boxers, inline 4s, singles).
Have they claimed the boxer is “the ultimate bike solution” as you suggest? It seems they would be saying the opposite considering how diverse they have been over the years.
Chris - I’m not claiming the boxer should be used at the Superbike level, but it has proven itself to be still competitive in other classes. In addition, the HP2 Sport has plenty of clearance to get around a road course. The 200 is not completely an oval, anyway.
Check this out if you haven’t seen this already…
http://ridethetorquecurve.blogspot.com/2008/03/bmw-hp2-sport-video-sound.html
April 16th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
….and, I think it is great BMW went this route (although a in-line triple would have been more interesting).
Pabsy - Japan has had a rough time in WSB trying to beat Ducati. Maybe an in-line 4 of a different variety can do better? It will be fun to watch, either way.
April 16th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
hoyt: Nice video.
Just for comparison, here are the engine numbers from the HP2 Sport and the Ducati 1098R:
HP2 Sport boxer twin:
1170 cc (101mm x 73mm) four-valve 12.5:1 compression
130 bhp @ 8750 rpm
85 lb-ft @ 6000 rpm
Ducati 1098R V-twin:
1198.4 cc (106mm x 67.9mm) four-valve 12.8:1 compression
180 bhp @ 9750 rpm
99 lb-ft @ 7750 rpm
The fact that the Duc engine is making 40% more power and 16% more torque with virtually the same compression ratio and displacement suggests to me that BMW *might* be running up against some sort of limits in the boxer design. I will defer to Kevin Cameron to explain exactly what those limits might be
because I’m not sure at this point.
Bottom line? If BMW can get competitive performance out of a boxer — which they obviously can in some classes — they’ll probably use it. I seriously doubt they can get competitive performance out of the boxer design in either MotoGP or WSB, though.
cl
April 16th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
there is an admission here that the boxer is flawed (but charming) as an ultimate bike soloution, by virtue of this product
That depends very much on what your definition of “ultimate bike solution” is.
If your definition of “ultimate bike solution” is “best track-day weapon for beating everyone in your displacement class” then yeah, I would tend to agree.
However, I rather doubt that most people who ride sporting motorcycles define “ultimate bike solution” in that way. I certainly don’t, and I wouldn’t exclude a boxer simply because it would lose a track race against a CBSZXR-1000R1. I’d be more inclined to buy a “fun” bike than a “fast” bike in most cases, since pretty much any motorcycle (even a lowly Ninja 250) is going to be much quicker than any non-bike traffic on the road and I’m not planning on taking on Mat Mladin or Valentino Rossi at a local track day anytime soon.
cl
April 16th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Chris, you give the peak values only. What about bandwidth of the torque?
April 17th, 2008 at 3:30 am
Chris you can’t compare a watercooled Ducati engine with an oil-air cooled BMW engine.
The reason why BMW built this superbike is that they say the market for 1000cc bikes is 100.000 bikes of which most are sold in the US and Europe.
So if they get a market share of 10% it will probably already be succesful. They just have to look for new markets because they want to grow to 150.000 bikes per year compared to 100.000 now (altough they say Husqvarna will be responsible for 30% of that)
the speech of the President of BMW Motorrad Hendrik von Kuenheim:
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/16april08_bmwoutlines.htm
April 17th, 2008 at 5:42 am
I like the styling. Sharp and purposeful. I’m guessing an inline four, given the class it’ll be racing in. I’d love to see a triple though, what’s the CC limit on those in WSB?
April 17th, 2008 at 7:34 am
I think the boxer engine is a excellent power plant, I just believe it is not competitive for packaging in a chassis for this type of racing. In a car , cruiser, boat , airplane or helicopter the boxer has undoubtedly proven its potential.
also, the reservoir on the forks is nothing new but what is the small linkage behind it on the right ? I suggested a measurment instrument , does anyone have feed back on this?
April 17th, 2008 at 8:47 am
I think it looks fantastic. I’d happily part with cash for one.
April 17th, 2008 at 9:06 am
At least its not like a Harley powered Buell which is half the performance for the same price as a litre class Japanese model.
Knowing BMW, esepcially if it’s a limited edition for the street, it will sell for 2.5-4x what a comparable Japanese model would sell for.
Give me any of the big four any day of the week.
April 17th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Chris
Thanks for comparing the air-cooled boxer to a liquid-cooled Ducati 1098. It stregthens my point about the boxer still being competitive in certain classes as I have suggested.
I replied to Ry’s comment: “Is this proof that even BMW thinks the boxer is not competitive?”
Furthermore, your comparison on ‘paper’ looks like BMW has done a remarkable job with the boxer.
Heat is a huge hinderance to hp and rev limits, yet BMW is getting those revs and hp out of an air/oil cooled engine, and doing it reliably? I’d say they deserve a toast.
“I seriously doubt they can get competitive performance out of the boxer design in either MotoGP or WSB, though”
No one said anything about WSB and definitely not MotoGP. I did say that all engine configurations have challenges and that the boxer’s net affect of the advantages minus the disadvantages when applied to superbike racing is too great compared to other platforms (i.e. a negative net for the boxer). I also wrote that BMW has experience in many platforms, which tells me they understand the preferred platform depends on the application.
I like the styling, but I would prefer something original
April 17th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
“At least its not like a Harley powered Buell which is half the performance for the same price as a litre class Japanese model.”
Buells are not powered by Harley. The engines though similiar are two different animals. Also the new 1125r uses a Rotax powerplant. And the 1125r’s have been giving Ducati’s a run for their money on the tracks.
April 17th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Where exactly has the boxer been competetive, anyway? I mean, other than Formula Extreme, which is dominated by four cylinder bikes with half the displacement. . . .
April 17th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
@Matt
> there’s a possibility it contains pneumatic valves but BMW are being really cagey about it all.
I have been looking around for more information on that. Pneumatic valves would bring power to the next level would it not? Crazy RPM limits. I’m sure if that rumor is ever confirmed it will spread quickly…
April 17th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
“…there’s a lot of talk about the engine’s head too; something is special about it, there’s a possibility it contains pneumatic valves but BMW are being really cagey about it all.”
I would rather expect BMW to utilise straight-down air intakes, placed between head cams, similiar to what MotoCzysz have done in their C1 concept racer. Maybe variable air ducts lenght also found its way into s1000RR? That would help torqe curve immensely, putting it near Duc’s 1098R.
April 17th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
All this talk about the appearance. . . There’s a reason all the big performance bikes look the same: aerodynamics. I agree it’s getting a bit boring, and maybe a different form of air management needs to be developed. As it stands, though, what we’ve already got is the best we can come up with. On a streetbike, sure, they could get a bit more creative. And i certainly wish they would. But for pure performance/racing - looks are engineered. Not styled.
April 18th, 2008 at 6:26 am
I think you have a good point there christopher also considering BMW is doing a lot of windtunnel work on motorcycle and the “naca” inlet they have is probably the best from the aerodynamic point of view…
April 18th, 2008 at 11:28 am
Styling: Looks 1% windtunnel/99% Frank Frazetta to me. A truly serodynamic bike wouldn’t sell - SportStyle consumers are dysfunctional that way….
April 18th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
@Barilla - Man, you got me digging now
Info on MotoCzysz’s C1 intakes…
http://www.motoczysz.com/club/?m=200711
Quote: “Our intake ports uniquely located between the cams were independently tested and out flowed every head the analysis company had ever tested. In turn, our engines volumetric efficiency is fantastic. We have documented VE of over 122%, the best Japanese bike we have ever had tested topped out at 112% - so are pump works excellent. Thermal efficiency is also good, so what is the problem?”
You are probably right considering Pneumatic valves cost 500K to develop according to MotoCzysz…
http://www.motoczysz.com/club/?p=43
“…that will require pneumatics, at least for the intake cam. Our best estimate is this is $500,000 an investment that cannot trickle down to a production model, in other words, no way to recoup a $500,000 R&D investment.”
BMW says they want to keep the price down so this probably rules out pneumatics
April 18th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Just for info they are not pneumatic valves but pneumatic valve springs:
http://www.pureluckdesign.com/ferrari/f1engine/valvesystem1.jpg
April 18th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
“Where exactly has the boxer been competetive, anyway? I mean, other than Formula Extreme, which is dominated by four cylinder bikes with half the displacement. . . ”
Displacement is the only thing you are looking at in this intriguing class? Air-cooling doesn’t mean much of a disadvantage?
BMW didn’t make the rules. Since the rules were made the year before to allow Buell to race, I think it is great BMW said, “hey, we have an air-cooled twin that fits the rules, let’s go racing!”
By the way, they are also competing with 850cc liquid-cooled Ducatis.
That class has one of the coolest mix of engineering in all of motorsports. 6 different brands finished in the top ten of a 200 mile race. Among those, there are 3 very different engines. To make it more interesting, the race fan also gets to see how 4 different companies engineered the same engine layout in different ways.
If you can compete in that class, then it is something to be proud of.
—————
Thanks Hugo for the diagram.
It will be interesting to see what innovation BMW brings to the tried-and-true inline 4 now that they have turned their attention to that design.
What other marques have been as diverse & innovative with the motorcycle as BMW?
Thanks for the courage of the smaller companies….
BMW - 3 different front-ends in recent years, 5 different engine layouts
Buell - fuel-in-frame, mass centralization
Ducati - desmodromic; raised the bar for the twin-cylinder motorcycle engine
KTM - 12 streetbikes in 13 years. Emphasizing the importance of the single cylinder streetbike
April 18th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
It looks like BMW will have plenty of opportunities to race the boxer twin AND the S100RR next year in the AMA:
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=32070
April 19th, 2008 at 7:43 am
I’m sorry but i’m pretty confused. A lot of you guys seem to think that this is BMW’s first foray into inline four territory. They’ve bin playing around with inline 4’s since the 80’s. Admitably they never tried anything realy competive until the latest K1200 series but all three of those bikes have serious engines. I read somewhere that the R version in the Power cup motogp support series was putting in very fast laptimes for such behemoth bikes. The real question is not with the engine i think but can BMW get the weight and chassis geometry right
April 21st, 2008 at 3:30 pm
right, but I don’t recall a full-fledged superbike application of the in-line 4
April 21st, 2008 at 4:26 pm
The body is limited by what is allowed by the given racing organization. New body styles have not been allowed since the 60’s . . .
Much more is possible with aerodynamics, but it is not allowed at the moment.
April 21st, 2008 at 10:31 pm
It Inside of the Engine GSX-R 1000CC
April 23rd, 2008 at 4:45 pm
would BMW riders, ride this?
How will they keep their legs warm?
April 27th, 2008 at 3:53 am
BMW worries more about their image and ego than producing quality motorcycles. They should be more concerned about their latest motors in the K series (K1200S,K1200R,K1200GT) from grenading at 20,000 miles. Like the HP2, Megamoto, the G Series, this new K1000 will just be another failure.
May 13th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Chris: That’s only because you hacen’t seen it with nice shiny BMW paint/logo/touch up details yet
. Trust me it’ll look alot cooler than this, although personally I think it already looks pretty awesome!
May 31st, 2008 at 3:38 am
There’s a lot of good points here. I definitely think BMW has the engineers to fine tune this bike to be a serious contender. It will take a good rider and couple years of competition to figure the GP, IMO. But that’s just my fanboy opinion. I hope they are successful, for the GP could use some more diversity.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:03 pm
“BMW worries more about their image and ego than producing quality motorcycles. They should be more concerned about their latest motors in the K series (K1200S,K1200R,K1200GT) from grenading at 20,000 miles. Like the HP2, Megamoto, the G Series, this new K1000 will just be another failure.”
Then I guess it is a modern miracle that my old K1200RS went 43,000 before I gave it to my cousin, who does, by the way, ride it like he stole it.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:33 pm
“BMW worries more about their image and ego than producing quality motorcycles. They should be more concerned about their latest motors in the K series (K1200S,K1200R,K1200GT) from grenading at 20,000 miles. Like the HP2, Megamoto, the G Series, this new K1000 will just be another failure.”
right, that’s why they’re becoming one of the most successful motorcycle manufacturers.
that’s why Ewan McGregor and Charley Boorman used the R1200GS to go around the world
that’s also why my dad has a K1200RS and has taken it across the U.S. a couple times, and that you see so many 15/20 year old Beamers riding around
this bike is designed to bring in a younger market and compete and win in WSB, i’m pretty sure they know what they’re doing
June 21st, 2008 at 11:38 pm
BMW is NOT racing the BOXER, or either of their K12 set-ups, this is their racing platform now
July 23rd, 2008 at 11:21 am
Rumor has it that this bike has a few surptises, as it will have a traction control, preumatic valves and 19.000-21.000 rpm!
August 28th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
This looks like a R1 bike with like a special twist to it. But , other than that, it’s very nice!!!