Since the announcement of the Buell shutdown, some folks who would know, have been talking about a new Buell model that was in development. Details from those folks are mixed with lots of speculation, so it’s hard to separate fact from fiction.
Someone tipped me to this photo of what they say is the bike in those rumors. It was shot by John Hanson, a contributing photographer for Road Racer X, somewhere near Milwaukee. It’s not what most people expect to see when the name Buell is mentioned.
Speculation about the bike indicates a displacement of 1199cc with much less weight and more horsepower than the current 1125R, it’s the kind of bike you would build if you were planning on World Super Bike competition, or more to the point, the bike you would build as a true, no compromise, world class American sport bike.
Let me repeat, though there is a lot of speculation and rumor about this, until confirmed, it is just that. But, … the plug was pulled, the lights are out, so it may not really matter except as a sad reminder of what might have been.
Photo by John Hanson Road Racer X
Bigshankhank says
Heck if someone could find those fairing molds and sell them aftermarket for the 1125, they’d make a nice chunk of change they could.
Que sera sera, would’ve been nice to see something like this. Where’s Fishers MC, our next best hope I guess..
Tin Man 2 says
Has anyone been granted an interview with Erik Buell? HD must be aware of the interest in the subject, how can they not be. Im still hopefull that Erik will have a strong voice in future product at HD. I would not think that Mr Buell stayed on with HD because he needed the money/job. I believe he thinks he has a future at HD and stayed there for a reason.
Narflar says
Is it possible they are still working on this? They said the last Buel was built but maybe they are going to do a re-branding or just re-badge the bikes as HD’s? Why else would they keep Eric Buell on? He doesn’t really fit to design for the classic HD bikes.
Earl says
It’s a great looking bike….
Joe says
Well it definitely looks like the exhaust is underslung and the fuel cap goes into the frame so, even though it doesn’t look like a Buell, I would guess it is one. Too bad it will probably never hit the showroom floor. Buell was already winning races with the 1125.
Jim says
Too bad a potentially interesting development. As far as an interview with Erik Buell goes, it would be disappointing as Erik is wearing golden handcuffs with a silver gag, anything he says would be sanitized by HD’s PR department.
The story will come out, first as key members of the Buell team leave HD and their non-compete and secrecy agreements begin to expire and perhaps from Buell himself in a few years as a retirement memoir.
Brauchi says
… a definite improvement to the ugly 1125 – designwise.
fazer6 says
Hmm… Definitely an improvement over the 1125–I’d actually be interested in buying one of these–At full price even.
Emmet says
It looks like a fully faired 1125. Very nice, too bad it was the end. Check out that link, it shows a load of new Buell motorcycles thrown in a dumpster. WHY????!!!!!!
4Cammer says
HD killed the only interesting bikes they had in their chrome laden catalog.
Palmer says
uh it looks something like a tail of a ktt rc8 and a front fairing of a duc 1098.
Anyway, very interesting, the 1125 is a great bike. I tested it today for the first time on the track: so smooth, powerful for the needs of a saturday biker, and sweet. Love it everyday more and more.
Harley davidson? I really don’t know. They had a super driver like eslick and they simply closed buell. Bah
Richard says
I thought about a rebranding as well, but they just got done redoing the logo and now with the layoffs….unlikely….
aaron says
….and it would have had 250hp and weighed 300lbs. sorry to say it, but prototypes and canceled \future offerings\ are always more interesting than production models. this is especially true when the opportunity arises to make your poorly run operation look like a victim of circumstance. (besides, bodywork is the last thing to evolve on a new model – I doubt that buell had a revised chassis/engine package in testing without anyone noticing… just look at how harley did the new mv agusta models… they released those for sale without even creating new bodywork!)*
*sarcasm- who’d want an italian bike with styling by committee/focus groups/harley?
cynicism aside, my guess is that this is a custom 1125 with some air-tech (or similar aftermarket bodywork) stuff bolted on. looks good! maybe I should try and track down a fire-sale buell of my own.
Mark X says
If Harley-Davidson is going to survive, Eric’s input will be an essential part of coming up with viable product designs. Read: Product that will sell, and that a wide range of motorcyclists, (not just bikers), will want to buy. Exciting times may be right around the corner.
todd says
Gee, they didn’t have to throw all those Buells in the dumpster. I would have bought one and payed a lot more than that dumpster did. I guess it makes more sense to write it all off instead of making a little money keeping bikes on the road that will need warranty coverage and service. – Or pay people to take them apart and keep the parts in (a high rent) storage for replacement parts.
Still…
-todd
Dr. Gellar says
If that bike really is/was a prototype for a potential future Buell…what a shame. A shame not only because of Buell’s demise, but because that bike looks like the kind of machine Buell should have first produced as the 1125R. It’s WAAAAY more easy on the eyes than the 1125R, which no matter how much I tried to like it, was frankly quite ugly. But more importantly, it looks like the kind of machine that, if it was or had been produced, tells the motorcycle world that Buell is finally serious about truly going head-to-head with not only the European big-twin sportbikes, but the Japanese as well. Too bad….
FREEMAN says
Looks like a Firebolt with a full fairing. Maybe the owner of this bike will enlighten us.
John Findlay says
I wish for Erick Buell the ultimate payback ! MV Augusta is purchased by Victory, they then hire Erick to run R&D, big things happen and !!!! well we can all dream about the final outcome ????
Kurt says
The photo has raised a lot of discussion at my favorite Buell site. Anonymouse posters as well as others have named it the 2011 Buell Barracuda. A totally redesigned bike with chain drive and a Rotax engine.
I can remember consumers starting a letter writing campaign to bring StarTrek back that got the studios to return the show to the air. Perhaps if the consumers of the world were to band together they could get Harley Davidson to sell Buell so it could be continued.
nortley says
Looks like parent company H-D’s accessory department had a sell-with jacket all tooled up. More work down the drain.
Ted Mellis says
It is ashamed that is never made it to market……….
This would have knocked it out of the park for Buell….
The Killing of Buell is starting to STINK off foul play…
tim says
just thinking outside the box a little: So Buell is dead but we (at HD) own all these cool toys and expertise, and it seems a waste of Erik Buell’s talent to have him designing the conches on the 2011 FXDWBLTRWTFBBQ, hey, do we still own Aermacchi? Can someone have a look? Oh, cool: Ta Daaaaaah: meet the new EYETALIAN motorsickel, the 2012 Aermacchi 1200…..
tim says
@ Kurt
re the Star Trek letter writing campaign: the problem with that is the fans got season three of TOS: it would be the equivalent of saying to HD: “bring back Buell” and them going “Oh, sure, here, we’ve brought back the Blast for y’all”.
Davidw says
So whats up with all the feeling sorry for Erik Buell? He was the chief technical officer of Buell, in charge of all product developement and probably quality control. I have seen far too many reports of oil leaks, gasoline on garage floors from overflowing breathers, premature wheelbearing failure,incorrect ecm mapping, melting fairings etc and bikes simply failing leaving riders stranded; all of this in a relatively low volumn production machine. The much vaunted 1125 could not compete against other 1000cc twins on a level playing field; instead it was competing against 600cc production machines in an almost embarassing attempt at racing. Clearly an underdeveloped machine. And where was the boss? Playing in his band? Erik Buell was undoubtedly well paid for what he did but didn’t do it well enough to compete in a tough field. The full page ads and videos showing the Blast being crushed and comments on it by Buell were just about the most appalling ads I’ve ever seen in the motorcycling press.It would have been great to have it all succeed but it wasn’t in the cards and HD was justified to pull the plug on a failing top heavy division that was bleeding cash.. Sorry, but i feel no sorrow for Erik Buell.
MadBueller says
@ Davidw
I don’t think you know the whole story behind Mr. Buell, his dreams and his innovations. How he had a vision of a competitive American sportbike and pursued it out of his garage. Like countless Americans tinkering in their own garages, but for their own benefit, Mr. Buell had a broader visualization. Once he got financial backing from HD that he needed, he anticipated this would put his dream into fruition…and it did in a way. There are now countless dedicated Buellers worldwide.
This is also where it went awry, though. HD revenues are now in the dumps and to offset their deficit they have sold MV Augusta, and have discontinued production of the Buell motorcycle. Which they acquired the rights to during the merger between HD and Buell. Now Erik Buell’s vision and dreams are, for the most part, dead. He was an American man with a mission and HD killed it. And instead of selling Buell, like they did with MV, they are holding on to it tight like a toddler does with their favorite blanket. That is why people feel sorrow for Mr. Buell. He was a hopeful American that got crushed by a corporate giant. All Buellers really want is for HD to sell the Buell Motorcycle Company and Mr. Buell to follow so he can continue his vision. So someday, David, even you could ride a quality, competitive and attractive American sportbike.
In addition, the bike in the photo is sharp, and undeniably a Buell. I would love to have one in my garage.
steve w says
it is easier to look back than forward but the big mistake was made years ago by staying with the Sportster based engine for to long. While I love that engine for what it is it was wrong for a Buell. You could maybe have kept it for a model but not the entire line. By the time a change had come about the damage was already to large to overcome. When you look at the numbers (sales) for those years it becomes evident. You can sell that many Sportsters or Fatboys in 2 years not 26. They just took to long which isn’t supprising from a company like HD. I still think the Motor Company (thats a sad title when they can’t build anything new) has made a mistake but maybe the mistake was just in being to slow to upgrade.
cycleguy says
From what I see so far from the pic, this is a great looking motorcycle. The nose of the bike is now much lower and the rest of the lines are much crisper and less bulbous.
It really is too bad that we may never see this bike. With the upgraded 1199cc engine and most likely, hotter cams, higher compression and larger valves, it would have been able to compete head on with the Ducati and KTM super twins.
It’s really unfair and short sighted to blame Buell for HD’s decision to close them. I understand that the bikes were a bit under developed, but progress was being made every year. After all, it took Ducati more than a decade to refine their operations and product to the point they are today. If the TPG group and other subsequent owners of Ducati used the same logic as HD did, Ducati would have never gotten as far as they are today and would have been just another obscure Italian motorcycle brand that came and went.
Becoming successful is a matter of continuous improvement, refinement and commitment to the goal, this doesn’t happen overnight but is always a work in progress, most Americans seemed to have forgotten that process, that includes most company CEO’s who have made money out of thin air in this new era of exotic financial shenanigans. Well those days are over, the only real way towards success is the old fashioned way, they need to earn it, too bad HD exec’s aren’t prepared to do that.
Buell did remarkably well considering HD was never 100% behind them, and I was looking forward to their new upgraded superbike as finally being a serious supersport alternative.
Woodman West says
Obviously no one was going out to the dealers instructing them how to service and sell bikes. I heard a story of a mechanic at an HD dealer who refused to work on Buells, and salesman who Pushed V Rods when you asked for Buells.
That is what killed the company. Even if this bike was built, the dealers would not stock/sell them.
Deals Gap Dragon says
The New World Odor strikes again!
My engineering instructors told our class that “in 10 years, there would be no engineering jobs in USA.” That was 9 years ago.
Tin Man 2 says
How can a country survive with only two professions, Teachers and Healthcare. We can not prosper by delivering Pizza to one another, We Need to manufacture!
Scott says
Don’t give up. That bike can still be made. Tell Harley they need to let Erik Buell make that bike and don’t let up until they do.
Every chance you get, tell Harley they need to allow America to finally have our superbike. It’s all ready to go. The rights just have to be signed over to someone willing to do it and I’m betting Erik Buell is ready, willing and able.
SnowingOnRaton says
I hate to be That Guy, but how many of the speculators on this last page who “would have bought that” have actually gone in and test ridden a Buell? I, too, waited too late with my dollars and am as of this weekend the owner of a lovely XB12XT. Too late to say that I “voted” with my purchase, and I regret it.
I don’t have much to add to all this, except that I’m happy I seem to have found a little pocket of genuine Buell enthusiasts/riders at my dealership in the service center, and hope they stick around long enough to keep me in fuel map reflashes for a long time to come.
painter says
I think Harlys making a big mistake.Being a lover of the wheel for over 38 yrs.I have rode a lot of different machines, mostly H-D.I rode a S2 of one of my friends one time on the curvy mountain roads of western NC. I loved it ! It handled great,rode smooth,had gobs of tork,I loved it !
Dorzok says
howd’s that go? a day late and a dollar short. too bad it took Buell too long to wake up and start abandoning the Sportster based bike.
Brian Sheridan says
Harley has a 50 year history of painting all prototypes either black or with very non attention getting colors. The fact that the rider has Buell written all over his arm pretty well says that it was not a factory test ride. In fact most HD / Buell testing does not happen in our area, (Milwaukee), just for this reason. If this was a factory test, the rider would not be working for HD when he got back to the shop, he would be fired.
Leo says
“Buell was already winning races with the 1125.”
Funniest thing I’ve heard all day. I wouldn’t call it winning when you’re racing against 600cc machines.
Walt says
This one deletes those unfortunate boob-looking radiator ducts, which were a good example of being different just for the hell of it. I wonder if they ever focus group tested those with prospective riders. I can’t imagine they’d have received many thumbs up, no matter how well they might function.
cycleguy says
Buell’s entry and victory in the Daytona sportbike class was no doubt a double edged sword for them, however I think it was the right move when you look at the bigger picture. Here was an opportunity to take a brand new bike and team with little experience and go racing in a class that it would be competitive in. Being competitive was important to getting Geico sponsorship to fund the race effort, as they were getting their money’s worth being in the winners circle. This allowed Buell to develop the bike and get it to the point were they could go superbike racing the following year with new superbike developed from what they learned racing the Daytona sportbike series this year.
This was a very smart and pragmatic approach, and set the stage perfectly for introducing their new superbike (shown here). Next move was to obtain superbike homoligation and go superbike racing with an established team and a very good bike.
It’s too bad whe’ll never see the fruits of those efforts, I seriously believe they would have been competitive and would have raised many eyebrows both on track and in the showrooms with this bike.
Kurt says
Just a few more thoughts here. How many of you have looked at the Harley 3rd Quarter report? How much a financial liability was Buell actually to Harley? The numbers just don’t add up. Buell wasn’t shut down due to financial costs, the report just doesn’t show this. So why were they closed down? Perhaps EB’s used of Rotax versus V-Twin? Was it because EB was trying to produce bikes that did not represent HD? If Harley is so strapped for cash why didn’t they just sell the brand versus spending millions to close it down? You Harley stockholders should be asking these questions to HD! Were 180 American workers put out the door due to a disagreement as to where EB wanted to lead Buell and where HD wanted them to be? Buell provided another market for HD to make money, thus benefitting the stockholder. Why close it down? Why didnt HD supply the same level of advertising and support to the Buell brand that they did to the HD Brand? If I owned stock in the HD machine, I would be questioning the leadership as to how they could make such a poor decision. Does their decision actually represent the American values they are so quick to push out to the HD consumer? I think not.
John says
After the success Buell had in the Daytona Sportbike AMA Pro Race Series and now with this gorgeous bike, it’s just plain weak sauce that Buell was killed. I don’t think the CEO of HD knows what the hell is going on.
JCB says
Just like the airline industry . No more airplane men running the companys just the bean counters .
David/cigarrz says
Amazingly Eric Buell is so offended he still works for Harley
christopher says
unless whoever owns that bike came up with a real clever solution for the side radiators, that’s not an 1125R. even then, that is one VERY nice custom job on the fairings, look how nice they line up with the frame/fuel tank. and it’s definitely NOT a firebolt/lightning. look at the clutch cover and lack of belt on the right side. i say it’s either the best custom 1125 out there or it’s a prototype Buell. and based on Brian Sheridan’s comment about keeping everything hush-hush for testing, my guess is the “End Of Buell” is a publicity scam. If HD can keep selling the same basic bike for 50 years, surely they’ve learned a thing or two about clever marketing. why else would they refuse to sell the brand and keep Eric on board? why else would Eric STAY on board??
Davidw says
Buell had 25 years to develope a reliable sportbike and didn’t make the cut. The Rotax engine and Japanese produced alloy frames were paid for by HD and thus owned by them. Buell had 80 workers assembling bikes from entirely outsourced parts and 100 office staff and executives….a bit top heavy for a small company. A certain small Japanese motorcycle company first came to our attention in about 1959 and had absolutely no sugardaddy corporation to bankroll its efforts but managed to in the space of 10 years produce machines that changed the face of motorcycling forever.
cycleguy says
Davidw, The Buell Firebolt frames were made by Verilicchi in Italy, vendor for Ducati as well, the 1125R frames are made in Illinois (moving jobs back home where they belong). Honda also outsources almost everything aside from their engines.
Honda not having a sugardaddy???
What do you call decades of Japanese government subsidies??
Kurt says
@ David/cigarrz
EB announced that he would not renew his contract with HD. I would imagine if he is still there it is to fulfill his requirements.
@Davidw
Buell did design and produce reliable sportbikes. The XB series of machines were and still are well designed sportbikes. The 1125 was the first American Sportbike to win an AMA Championship. And regardless how top heavy the company was, they were efficient and their manufacuring process were second to none. Just how top heavy is the HD Moco?
The point I was making above was that for Harley to be announcing that due to the economy and their financial situation they were closing down Buell. Why not sell it? If they are so hard up for cash, why not sell the company like they did MV? The money they spent to close down this company could have kept it runniing producing revenue.
Davidw says
The firebolt frames were built in Japan and the swingarms in italy for the firebolt. Later with tie introduction of the 1125 the swingarms were also made in japan. Should we discuss the faillure of the chinese wheel bearings on new Buells? Between the two of them HD and Buell lacked the expertise to develope new engines; Porsche and Rotax had to do it. So called visionaries are great but competent engineering and quality control is the real deal. You need to read the real history of Honda before you comment on it. 50+ million machines built in about 50 years isn’t a bad tally.
Kurt says
@Davidw
Wow, we could keep going back and forth on this. Guess we need to agree to disagree. The V-Twin Buell uses was re-engineered by Buell, it is not the original Sportster engine. Additional the 1125r Rotax, also utilized Buell engineering. As for the wheel bearings, I know many Buell riders who expierienced no failures, me being one of the multitude. Failures aways seem 100x magnified when posted by a few on the Internet.
Grumpy says
I think Buell had plenty of time to develop his bikes to a higher level.
I don’t see any evidence of his having lived up to the expectations let alone the hype.
I won’t miss the bikes and except for the novelty collection status they will now probably enjoy have no further interest in them.
All in all … the biggest issue for me from the debacles at HD is what could happen to MV.
So ….
Just like last year and the year before that etc. …. I wont be going to my local HD dealer’s multi-million dollar show case to look at or even possibly buy things I have no use for.
But Hey! I’m just a grumpy old guy … who bought his Harley in 1967…. used …for 600 bucks.
Emmet says
The bodywork reminds me of the ealry generation Triumph daytona 600 inline 4, or the brief Fischer American sportbike.
Mark F says
You know, I’ve enjoyed my XB9R over the years but aside from the bike, I’ve never been more disappointed at the ‘support’ I’ve gotten from the local dealers…….and the problem with them is the management, not necissarily the employees. I only have one Buell dealer locally and they had screwed up everything from service to apparal to parts. I actually had to get the Buell factory involved in a conference call with the dealership in order to get the dealership to honor a recall for the wheel bearings. I even wrote a letter to the manager stating how upset I was over the handling of every single department. His reply to me was ‘we are the number 1 Harley dealer in the state’. Well, I didn’t buy a Harley, I bought a Buell. I avoided that dealership for as long as I could but ultimately had to go back because I needed to throttle sensor reset and it requires an interface for the computer that I don’t have. I talked to several mechanics at another Harley dealership that wished they would carry the Buells. I talked to management there and they said straight out, they don’t have the floor space, which in their defence…..they didn’t. Fairly small dealership. I was at another dealership in Maryland. Salesman saw me sitting on a Buell and then tried to sell me a V-Rod. That goes to show how much Harley has supported Buell. I hope someone is able to purchase Buell and then gets a distribution network allowing them to be sold at other import bike dealerships. I would love for Buell to be successful and essentially spit in Harleys face and show them what they did wrong with the brand.
bobx says
sit back and wait for HD to announce a new line up of bikes aimed toward the younger generation.
there is a reason that erik is still employed by HD.
the bikes in the dumpster picture is part 2 of the crushed blast.
the king is dead.
long live the king….
Mark Christensen says
I will let all the bleeding Buell fans in on a little private information. The entire Harley-Davidson dealer network had to renew thier dealer contracts in October. In the past Harley-Davidson dealers had to be Buell dealers. This changed two seasons ago. Buell allowed dealers to leave, and they did. This current contract year many more dealers were going to opt-out of thier Buell agreements. This left Buell with a much smaller and frankly non-exisitant dealer network. Harley-Davidson was faced with little demand, unwilling dealers, too much production capacity, and little corporate interest. They did not sell because Buell is a valuable asset.
Davidw says
Rotax 1125cc motor with Buell engineering?……possibly. Is that the reason the 1125 was non-competetive with other twins in its class? I witnessed in the 08 CCS team challenge race at Daytona a Buell/Rossmeyer sponsored team with paid for riders getting lapped by an ‘obselete’ privateer RC51 with 80k on the clock and no mods other than the pipe, power commander, a good dyno tune and ridden by amateurs. Rotax built good engines for Aprilia and BMW; what happened with Buell? Its a sure bet the people at Rotax were elated to see their product being good enough to compete with 600cc machines of other makes.
bblix says
I believe this may have been designed in conjunction with MV Agusta…maybe a re-badged MV Agusta?
What helped kill Buell was a bike like the Nightster 1200. It’s been hugely popular with the key demographic that H-D wanted to draw into the fold and has sold somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/3 as many bikes in the past couple years as Buell sold in 25.
Cal H says
Buell sold nearly 13,000 motorcycles in 2008, about the same volume as BMW sales in the US and ahead of Triumph. The claim that there was no demand is simply false. At that sales level, Buell should have been profitable or at least very close to break even. Harley has admitted that they did no analysis of possible savings by closing Buell. In all likelyhood it would have been cheaper to keep Buell than take $125 million in charges to shut it down. In addition Harley is unlikely to recoup their $109 million dollar investment in MV Agusta, $70 million of which went to pay off debt. Forget about getting that back. These decisions don’t seem to make economic sense. Closing a division with no financial anaysis? What happened to fiduciary responsiblity or GAAP? Something else is going on here. Keep in mind that HD Financial Services is on track to lose something like $150 million this year on sub prime loans and Harley is over Two BILLION in debt at interest rates up to 16%.
9nine8 says
That is the best looking (defunct) Buell. It looks very Euro with its simple full fairing with little or no graphics. Too bad it never made it into production before Buell’s demise.
Keith T says
First, it’s really disappointing that anyone here is cheering the loss of an American company and the loss of American jobs. That could have been any one of us.
Second, I don’t hear anyone complaining about the AMA letting Ducati or Aprillia compete with engines of displacement greater than 600 cc. Let’s look at the facts:
1. Danny Eslick did not win the majority of the races. The 600 cc riders did. What Danny and Buell did was to be competitive and finish all of the races. The leading 600 cc riders did not. To finish first, you must first finish.
2. Do you want a spec 600 cc class? I don’t. I enjoyed seeing multiple brands and engine configurations battling with any one of them winning on a given weekend.
3. If the Buell 1125R had an unfair advantage, why wasn’t there another Buell in the top 10 at the end of the season?
4. If you are disappointed that the Rotax 1125 motor wasn’t more competitive, remember that Ducati has been racing at the national and international level a lot longer and has a much higher level of development in its engine technology.
5. For many reasons, it is impossible for a twin to make the same power as a multi-cylinder engine. HP is directly related to RPM. A twin of the same displacement as a four cannot spin to the same RPM and therefore cannot make the same power. There are other reasons as well (valve area, breathing, etc.) that also work against a twin.
6. Jason DiSalvo rode the Buell after the season was over and was very impressed with the bike, not so much for its speed but for the level of development in the electronics package and the way the rear tire hooked up.
I hope that as Americans we can be proud of what a tiny company did this year against full-on factory teams. I can only hope that Buell is just beginning to shop what it can do and will return soon.
Keith
xlcrguy says
Davidw – shut yer pathetic pie-hole. Neither the XB or the 1125 frames were made in Japan. The 1125 powertrain was a joint design between BRP and Buell. The “Top Heavy” 100 employees you mentioned included design engineers, quality engineers, purchasing engineers, supply chain analysts, test technicians, machinists, fabricators, industrial designers, etc. Not a whole lot of executives, as you claim. I would say that this this small, dedicated team of professionals also changed the face of the motorcycling world, just as Honda did some 50 years ago. For example, ever noticed how many underslung mufflers are now out there, rocket scientist?
Davidw says
Underslung mufflers? First i saw was on a Yamaha single in the 60s, so its nothing new. Buell was an interesting bike and i think everyone interested in performance bikes wanted to see it succeed, but it only lasted as long as it did because of its ownership by HD in later years and that was also the cause of its ultimate demise. I spent my teenage years on a farm literally over the hill from frog hollow where Buell began his company so it was exciting to see the brand coming from that area. HD owns all the patents, frame and bodywork designs and also the design and tooling for the 1125cc engine. Unless they choose to produce or sell these assets its very doubtful we’ll ever see them in production ever again. The HD bean counters are stuck with the warranty issues and there are plenty; should be interesting to see if and how they live up to their obligations.
Keith T says
“The HD bean counters are stuck with the warranty issues and there are plenty;…”
David,
Can you produce anything credible to back this up?
Keith
Paul says
I haven’t glanced at all the comments but if I were looking for a bike like this, I’d stop dead in my tracs and think about the new KTM RC8R!
Kirby C says
First, DavidW, could you PLEASE for the sake of the rest of us trying to have a half decent conversation, STOP posting. 90% of what you have posted that I have read is either misguided, or completely inaccurate and wrong. If you had actually taken 5 minutes to do some searching before your last post, you would have found out that while HD owns some patents for Buell motorcycles, Erik Buell himself is actually the owner of many of the basic and most important patents on Buell parts and designs. Also, most of what you say makes you seem much less informed than you obviously think you are.
Also, I like most of the people here am not 100% sure exactly what I’m looking at in the picture, but as others have said it definitely has Buell elements (fuell in frame, design, ect.) What I noticed that makes me almost positive that this is really a Buell is the wheels. Those are Buell rims that are on the XB’s and the 1125’s. This bike is running Buell wheels and has a fairing (the uppermost part anyways) that very heavily resembles an 1125r’s…either way, I am sad to not have the chance to see where it could have gone…
Wade says
Davidw, In the interest of a level playing field, I would ask you to back up your claims here with something more substantial than the grumblings of a conformist viewing unconventional designs.
1. you claim that you have seen underslung mufflers on 1960’s yamaha’s. Can you produce even a single picture to back this up? Can you explain how Erik Buell was able to obtain a patent on such a “common” technology? Can you offer ANY proof at all that this is a design that has been used before Erik Buell?
2. You attempt to claim that the 1125R is too powerful for the class, and in the next post state that it’s not a competitive engine. so Which is it? And if you’re attempting to say that the engine is too big of a displacement for the class but not competitive with other Liter engines from Rotax, then I would suggest you view Moto-USA’s review/comparison of the 1125R (production street bike) versus the ZX-6R Ninja and the Aprilia RSV1000R. In the end… they had a very different opinion of the bike and it’s designs… and they all agreed that the Aprilia wasn’t anywhere near the Buell’s capabilities.
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/577/Motorcycle-Video/2009-Daytona-SportBike-Shootout.aspx
todd says
Wade, I own some old Yamahas that have the exhaust and muffler under the engine. Pretty much all bikes from the ’80s and older have the exhaust under the engine. I don’t think DavidW needs to produce any pictures to prove that.
Not to stick up for other people but the claim is that it is unfair to race an undeveloped 1125 against fully developed 600s. What happens when the large engine begins making comparable HP/liter as the small engines? Will it be disqualified? Would it be fair if Kawasaki began racing a ZX-10R that was “tuned for torque”? It’s nice to have variation in racing but not a variation in capacity in classes that are based on capacity…
-todd
Wade says
Todd, Having the exhaust header go underneath the engine to a muffler mounted off the side near the rear wheel isn’t underslung by the design that Erik Buell has come up with. I’ve been riding bikes since around 87 and for the life of me, I can’t think of a single bike that I’ve seen with a centrally mounted muffler underneath the engine.
On the issue of the whole controversy on allowing the Buell bike to race in the class with 600cc bikes, I’m not by any means any kind of authority on sport bike racing, but it seems to me that no one has had any complaints about Aprilia, Ducati and KTM (all running V-Twins) with Liter engines racing in this class. I am not here to argue the reasoning, logic or legitimacy behind AMA/DMG’s rules, but it seems to me that the reasons people are complaining about the Buells racing in this class is because they actually pose a real threat, and because they’re different. You never see an Aprilia on the podium in these races, why? Because the Aprilia bikes have the crappy power V-Twin engine and a standard common chassis design configuration that fails to offset the crappy engine. Buell has a very innovative frame that means his bike handles as if it were a lot lighter. This is the very same conclusion that Moto-USA came to in the video comparison I mentioned above.
Now… take all of this discussion and table it because none of it has anything to do with the validity of Buell as a motorcycle company. They have been producing some very good quality bikes and are truly the only company in the last 15 years that has done anything innovative or revolutionary. The bikes coming out of Japan and Europe are not Revolutionary. Evolutionary yes… but they are fundamentally the same designs they’ve been for 20 years. Minor tweaks to engine techs but really nothing new in the bike. Just because you’ve always done something one way does NOT mean that it’s NOT incredibly stupid. Erik’s designs address what he himself learned were crap in conventional bike designs. Watch the video interviews of him and you’ll see what I mean. The fundamental reason why Buell is dead as a company is because they were owned by a company that at best Tolerated their existance. They NEVER supported Buell. And because the industry has treated Buell like an outsider in a high school “Clique”. (Not Riders… Journalists). They saw the Buell designs as quirky weird and odd and never gave them a chance.
Most Buell riders are very loyal to Buell. If you need proof of this statement, go look at http://www.buellxb.com. There you will find hundreds of Buell owners that love their odd machines. They are praying for a Pegasus/Phoenix to rise out of the ashes of BMC and once again produce the bikes they love.
Keith T says
Todd,
I’ll ask it again: if the 1125 were too powerful for its class, why didn’t we see more of them on the podium?
Quoted from Roadracing World, November 2009, “Some said including the Buell 1125R V-Twin in the AMA Pro Racing Daytona SportBike Class along with 600cc Inline Fours was unfair and that the bike was too fast. When the season ended, Buell’s Danny Eslick had finished every race, winning six races and the title. The top riders on the four cylinder 600s won 14 races and all had multiple DNFs…
And what happens when the 1125 becomes too powerful? AMA/DMG forces the team to add weight and/or may move them up to the liter class. Which by the way, the 1125RR didn’t do too badly in that class. If I’m not mistaken, the 1125Rs had weight added to them at least once during the season.
Keith
Keith T says
PS Don’t forget the premier Buell forum, http://www.badweatherbikers.com