Victory Motorcycles planning assembly plant IndiaAccording to reports, Victory Motorcycles is planning to travel the same path as Harley Davidson into the Indian motorcycle market, formally announcing their entry by the second half of 2012. Plans are to initially send complete bikes, followed soon thereafter with an assembly plant in the country due to the extremely high tariffs on completely assembled imports. I guess if the home market is soft, you go where the growth is.
As I said when H-D made a similar announcement, I hope it works out well. It’s good to see products from here being sold over there, even if the final assembly is there. The components are from here so, more sales, more jobs. Bikes completely assembled here would never sell because of the tariffs, so some new jobs are better than none. Good move.
Will Silksays
I agree with HoughMade. However, it would be interesting to see a domestic (US) market report on Victory. They build a good product, albeit at a price that’s not really in my ball park. I would be interested to see how they are fairing on home soil against Milwaukee, as well as how their sales in India compare to HD.
Kensays
I grew up in MN and during college I worked for small town machine shop that made parts for Polaris and other companies. As Polaris grew, that machine shop grew right along with it. Hopefully, they can continue to manufacture here and assemble there. It would be a win-win for both countries!
On a second note, I hope this means that Victory will develope a smaller displacement bike for use in the Indian market. That would mean a more affordable choice for those of us wanting that non heavyweight american made bike!
mobilussays
This is about labor costs. Next up, the parts will be cast/stamped there. The day will come when those India built bikes will be sold here. There’s no similar import tariff stopping India produced bikes from making their way to the U.S. The Big 3 didn’t shift their auto production to Mexico for the nice weather.
HoughMadesays
If either H-D or Victory tried to sell Indian made bikes here, I believe they would damage their brand more than help their bottom line (regardless of quality). I think the management of both companies is smarter than that. Cars and bikes are very different. Fewer people care where their bland econobox or family people mover are assembled. Many, not all, many people buy H-D and Victory because they are American. Many others don’t buy for that reason primarily, but it is a factor. Take that advantage away, and lose many more sales than any cost savings could recoup (especially with the cost of transporting the bikes here).
Tomsays
“I guess if the home market is soft, you go where the growth is.”
There was a time when the USA was a gung-ho place, and we went anywhere we could to do business, sell what we could and make a buck – even when the home market was booming.
Chris Rsays
Considering the tariff structure for completed products, this “kit” structure makes sense to help keep US manufacturing healthy as long as it stays this way. This could be a win-win situation, but this will also affect the semi-skilled assembly line worker in the US that gains nothing in a soft US market. I am sure we will see this tariff work around happen more often.
Kensays
The Japanese care manufacturers have been doing it here for years. They have plants that do the final assembly here and import parts from Japan. This creates American jobs and keeps things competitive by bypassing those expensive tarriffs.
Marksays
I have no problem with the move of both HD, and now Victory opening assembly plants in India. But, I don’t believe for one minute that we’ll never see those same bikes being sold here. It’s only a matter of time, there is nothing stopping them, other than the damage to their brands.
This makes the addition of John Anderson, CEO of Levi Strauss to the HD board of directors so interesting. Levi Strauss, a once proud American brand managed to maintain their brand image, despite not making anything in this country any longer. I’m sure HD wants his experience in how to make that happen.
This also raises the question, Why aren’t we doing the same thing as India? We would see 1000’s of foreign corporations flocking to the US to open factories in order to sell their products here. We are the largest consumer market in the world, and need to start taking advantage of that for our benefit. This would include our own companies like Apple, Dell , IBM and yes Levi Strauss. Yes, prices of goods will increase in the short term, but who cares, no one can afford to buy anything anyway, but over the long term this would generate millions of higher paying jobs and put money back into the hands of consumers and rebuild our wrecked economy.
However, I don’t have much hope of that ever happening as long as our government is on the payroll of these multi-national corporations. This is exactly how they want it and will do everything necessary to keep it this way.
menormehsays
If you read the former head of Chrysler Lee Iacocca’s book Iacocca, you will find that he prophesied exactly what is happening today. He said that with the movement of more and more out sourcing that eventually America would only be producing the Sayings on t-shirts (not the t-shirts themselves) and hamburgers in the not so distant future. He also said that protectionist legislation by countries like India and Japan served to undermine the American economy as there are unfair practices and that the American Government in it’s love affair with Capitalism and “free” trade would be inherently slow to adopt the same type of legislation resulting in the demise of many American businesses. Another thing he cautioned was everytime a consumer purchased something from overseas that they were in reality exporting jobs. Good book well worth reading.
woolyheadsays
I’m good at reading product labels….. I looked up quality control in both an Indian and Chinese dictionary also……seems no such term exists. If possible these products go back on the shelf. Japan and Taiwan found out how to make quality part of the equation……look where they went !
This isn’t just about the Indian market. All the asian markets are close to India: Japan, China, Vietnam, Thailand, Pakistan, and the Persian Gulf States, too. It gives both manufacturers an alternative supply route if (a) some countries get upset with the US and impose giant tariffs, or (b) our feckless Congress manages to do something unpleasant to the dollar.
Tinmansays
If American consumers are Foolish enough to buy Goods without regard to where they are sending their money, Why would anyone think the US government would impose Tarrifs, until its to late?? Your Dollar is power, How you spend your Dollars will determine the future of the economy. Frankly, I think short sighted Greed will continue to erode the US economy until its to late to recover. Anyone watch daytime TV lately? The country is becoming a bunch of Morons.
Chris Rsays
We only have to watch CSPAN to see a bunch of Morons. When we remove the government from our business, US business will thrive, that would be the start.
Will Silksays
Amen to that brother!
Cowpieapexsays
Perhaps we should prefer to remove business from our government? See the definition for fascism.
The morons you disparage are not too stupid to parlay sub $100,000 political salaries into multi million dollar corporate campaign donations. Is it really any surprise that your jobs go offshore with their profits?
.
Danosays
Woolyhead, my guess is that they will be utilizing the Toyota Production System. Quality control is built into the process of ‘assembly’, which is what they will be doing there. I believe that the engines, trannies and complex componenents will be built, assembled and tested on this side of the world, prior to being shipped there for ‘assembly’ into a frame. This would be the same thing H.D. has been doing that for years, engines in Wisconson and assembly in PA or KY. I’ll bet that all of the standards that Victory demands must be met prior to release of a vehicle. They will be as stringent as the ones required in the U.S. of A. or the intended country of sale. The same as it must meet for the ones built here for sale in other markets.
Using the TPS method of ‘assembly’ they will use the kaizan method of continuous improvement to insure that all of the units are produced with Q.A. built into each operation. They present only the products they need in the quantity they need for each build at each operation (station). That includeds nuts, bolts, washers etc., fool-proofing each opertion.
EASY!
Marksays
@ Chris R, the large multi-national corporations will never allow the government to get out of their business, it’s been way too profitable for them. So far they have been successful at eliminating their competition and monopolizing their industries, rigging the our trade policies for their benefit, creating tax loopholes which see’s the most profitable corporation on earth (Exxon/Mobil) which not only didn’t pay a cent in taxes, they received a $156 million tax refund!
This country has become a corporate welfare state, and that’s exactly how the corporations want to keep it. When money gets tight, we just print more for them and take it away from the regular working class Americans.
Chris Rsays
An employed American worker pays taxes. Most second tier suppliers to multi-national corps are US owned, and pay taxes. Thriving communities have secondary businesses that pay taxes, create jobs and support communities. Demonizing large corps. (not all fit the catagory you discribed), only eliminates US opportunites and US jobs and destroy communities. If we can thoughtfully look at tariff laws we can keep our Manufacturing base and not give away the farm.
Tomsays
Wow, countries that don’t try to commit economic suicide via the lie of the \free market\ are seeing economic gains and job growth. Imagine that. Wow. Meanwhile, in the US, Conservatives who claim to be rational businessmen continue to cling to a failed dogmatic ideology.
Its not that the American dream is slipping away. Its that its being boxed up and sent overseas while the rank and file working people are told to attack the Lib’ruls as the culprit for this march toward neo-feudalism.
toddsays
99.9% of my money stays in the US and I don’t look at labels. Half of my income goes to taxes (coming in and going out), little over a third goes to the bank that truly owns my house. The rest goes to public utilities and farmers. The remaining 0.1% is what I get to spend on STUFF. Even though much of that stuff is manufactured in China most of the money that is spent to buy it pays all the Americans that make sure it’s made and sold to me.
So, really, maybe 0.01% of my income goes out of the country. Think about it a little.
-todd
Mehul Kamdarsays
Harley Davidson have an interesting strategy in India – they sell Indian assembled bikes which are Indian market only at entry level prices and US assembled Harleys at a premium. That makes reasonably priced (by Indian standards) Harleys available there for those who want to begin owning Harleys and high end US built Harleys as aspirational models. Nothing wrong with that at all and I think this is a strategy that will work well in the long term. Victory are good bikes too and there is no reason why they should not sell there. Their product range is much more limited than Harley Davidsons’s though and it will be interesting to see what kind of marketing strategy they adopt.
Klaussays
Of course they will sell their bikes in the US eventually. The Indian market is not big enough to build a plant just for their market. Save $$ in the assembly process, ship it to the US and most people wouldn’t even notice the difference.
Same with most other items on sale in the US and Europe – local brandnames on the top, \Made In China\ on the bottom! There’s no way around it.
Paul Crowe - "The Kneeslider"says
Based on a number of the comments above, it seems many of you have strong political views but this is not the place. No one changes their political view based on a blog comment and any discussion of politics in blog comments descends rapidly into pretty vicious garbage. Thank you for your thoughts.
HoughMade says
As I said when H-D made a similar announcement, I hope it works out well. It’s good to see products from here being sold over there, even if the final assembly is there. The components are from here so, more sales, more jobs. Bikes completely assembled here would never sell because of the tariffs, so some new jobs are better than none. Good move.
Will Silk says
I agree with HoughMade. However, it would be interesting to see a domestic (US) market report on Victory. They build a good product, albeit at a price that’s not really in my ball park. I would be interested to see how they are fairing on home soil against Milwaukee, as well as how their sales in India compare to HD.
Ken says
I grew up in MN and during college I worked for small town machine shop that made parts for Polaris and other companies. As Polaris grew, that machine shop grew right along with it. Hopefully, they can continue to manufacture here and assemble there. It would be a win-win for both countries!
On a second note, I hope this means that Victory will develope a smaller displacement bike for use in the Indian market. That would mean a more affordable choice for those of us wanting that non heavyweight american made bike!
mobilus says
This is about labor costs. Next up, the parts will be cast/stamped there. The day will come when those India built bikes will be sold here. There’s no similar import tariff stopping India produced bikes from making their way to the U.S. The Big 3 didn’t shift their auto production to Mexico for the nice weather.
HoughMade says
If either H-D or Victory tried to sell Indian made bikes here, I believe they would damage their brand more than help their bottom line (regardless of quality). I think the management of both companies is smarter than that. Cars and bikes are very different. Fewer people care where their bland econobox or family people mover are assembled. Many, not all, many people buy H-D and Victory because they are American. Many others don’t buy for that reason primarily, but it is a factor. Take that advantage away, and lose many more sales than any cost savings could recoup (especially with the cost of transporting the bikes here).
Tom says
“I guess if the home market is soft, you go where the growth is.”
There was a time when the USA was a gung-ho place, and we went anywhere we could to do business, sell what we could and make a buck – even when the home market was booming.
Chris R says
Considering the tariff structure for completed products, this “kit” structure makes sense to help keep US manufacturing healthy as long as it stays this way. This could be a win-win situation, but this will also affect the semi-skilled assembly line worker in the US that gains nothing in a soft US market. I am sure we will see this tariff work around happen more often.
Ken says
The Japanese care manufacturers have been doing it here for years. They have plants that do the final assembly here and import parts from Japan. This creates American jobs and keeps things competitive by bypassing those expensive tarriffs.
Mark says
I have no problem with the move of both HD, and now Victory opening assembly plants in India. But, I don’t believe for one minute that we’ll never see those same bikes being sold here. It’s only a matter of time, there is nothing stopping them, other than the damage to their brands.
This makes the addition of John Anderson, CEO of Levi Strauss to the HD board of directors so interesting. Levi Strauss, a once proud American brand managed to maintain their brand image, despite not making anything in this country any longer. I’m sure HD wants his experience in how to make that happen.
This also raises the question, Why aren’t we doing the same thing as India? We would see 1000’s of foreign corporations flocking to the US to open factories in order to sell their products here. We are the largest consumer market in the world, and need to start taking advantage of that for our benefit. This would include our own companies like Apple, Dell , IBM and yes Levi Strauss. Yes, prices of goods will increase in the short term, but who cares, no one can afford to buy anything anyway, but over the long term this would generate millions of higher paying jobs and put money back into the hands of consumers and rebuild our wrecked economy.
However, I don’t have much hope of that ever happening as long as our government is on the payroll of these multi-national corporations. This is exactly how they want it and will do everything necessary to keep it this way.
menormeh says
If you read the former head of Chrysler Lee Iacocca’s book Iacocca, you will find that he prophesied exactly what is happening today. He said that with the movement of more and more out sourcing that eventually America would only be producing the Sayings on t-shirts (not the t-shirts themselves) and hamburgers in the not so distant future. He also said that protectionist legislation by countries like India and Japan served to undermine the American economy as there are unfair practices and that the American Government in it’s love affair with Capitalism and “free” trade would be inherently slow to adopt the same type of legislation resulting in the demise of many American businesses. Another thing he cautioned was everytime a consumer purchased something from overseas that they were in reality exporting jobs. Good book well worth reading.
woolyhead says
I’m good at reading product labels….. I looked up quality control in both an Indian and Chinese dictionary also……seems no such term exists. If possible these products go back on the shelf. Japan and Taiwan found out how to make quality part of the equation……look where they went !
coho says
They speak Chinese in Taiwan.
BigHank53 says
This isn’t just about the Indian market. All the asian markets are close to India: Japan, China, Vietnam, Thailand, Pakistan, and the Persian Gulf States, too. It gives both manufacturers an alternative supply route if (a) some countries get upset with the US and impose giant tariffs, or (b) our feckless Congress manages to do something unpleasant to the dollar.
Tinman says
If American consumers are Foolish enough to buy Goods without regard to where they are sending their money, Why would anyone think the US government would impose Tarrifs, until its to late?? Your Dollar is power, How you spend your Dollars will determine the future of the economy. Frankly, I think short sighted Greed will continue to erode the US economy until its to late to recover. Anyone watch daytime TV lately? The country is becoming a bunch of Morons.
Chris R says
We only have to watch CSPAN to see a bunch of Morons. When we remove the government from our business, US business will thrive, that would be the start.
Will Silk says
Amen to that brother!
Cowpieapex says
Perhaps we should prefer to remove business from our government? See the definition for fascism.
The morons you disparage are not too stupid to parlay sub $100,000 political salaries into multi million dollar corporate campaign donations. Is it really any surprise that your jobs go offshore with their profits?
.
Dano says
Woolyhead, my guess is that they will be utilizing the Toyota Production System. Quality control is built into the process of ‘assembly’, which is what they will be doing there. I believe that the engines, trannies and complex componenents will be built, assembled and tested on this side of the world, prior to being shipped there for ‘assembly’ into a frame. This would be the same thing H.D. has been doing that for years, engines in Wisconson and assembly in PA or KY. I’ll bet that all of the standards that Victory demands must be met prior to release of a vehicle. They will be as stringent as the ones required in the U.S. of A. or the intended country of sale. The same as it must meet for the ones built here for sale in other markets.
Using the TPS method of ‘assembly’ they will use the kaizan method of continuous improvement to insure that all of the units are produced with Q.A. built into each operation. They present only the products they need in the quantity they need for each build at each operation (station). That includeds nuts, bolts, washers etc., fool-proofing each opertion.
EASY!
Mark says
@ Chris R, the large multi-national corporations will never allow the government to get out of their business, it’s been way too profitable for them. So far they have been successful at eliminating their competition and monopolizing their industries, rigging the our trade policies for their benefit, creating tax loopholes which see’s the most profitable corporation on earth (Exxon/Mobil) which not only didn’t pay a cent in taxes, they received a $156 million tax refund!
This country has become a corporate welfare state, and that’s exactly how the corporations want to keep it. When money gets tight, we just print more for them and take it away from the regular working class Americans.
Chris R says
An employed American worker pays taxes. Most second tier suppliers to multi-national corps are US owned, and pay taxes. Thriving communities have secondary businesses that pay taxes, create jobs and support communities. Demonizing large corps. (not all fit the catagory you discribed), only eliminates US opportunites and US jobs and destroy communities. If we can thoughtfully look at tariff laws we can keep our Manufacturing base and not give away the farm.
Tom says
Wow, countries that don’t try to commit economic suicide via the lie of the \free market\ are seeing economic gains and job growth. Imagine that. Wow. Meanwhile, in the US, Conservatives who claim to be rational businessmen continue to cling to a failed dogmatic ideology.
Its not that the American dream is slipping away. Its that its being boxed up and sent overseas while the rank and file working people are told to attack the Lib’ruls as the culprit for this march toward neo-feudalism.
todd says
99.9% of my money stays in the US and I don’t look at labels. Half of my income goes to taxes (coming in and going out), little over a third goes to the bank that truly owns my house. The rest goes to public utilities and farmers. The remaining 0.1% is what I get to spend on STUFF. Even though much of that stuff is manufactured in China most of the money that is spent to buy it pays all the Americans that make sure it’s made and sold to me.
So, really, maybe 0.01% of my income goes out of the country. Think about it a little.
-todd
Mehul Kamdar says
Harley Davidson have an interesting strategy in India – they sell Indian assembled bikes which are Indian market only at entry level prices and US assembled Harleys at a premium. That makes reasonably priced (by Indian standards) Harleys available there for those who want to begin owning Harleys and high end US built Harleys as aspirational models. Nothing wrong with that at all and I think this is a strategy that will work well in the long term. Victory are good bikes too and there is no reason why they should not sell there. Their product range is much more limited than Harley Davidsons’s though and it will be interesting to see what kind of marketing strategy they adopt.
Klaus says
Of course they will sell their bikes in the US eventually. The Indian market is not big enough to build a plant just for their market. Save $$ in the assembly process, ship it to the US and most people wouldn’t even notice the difference.
Same with most other items on sale in the US and Europe – local brandnames on the top, \Made In China\ on the bottom! There’s no way around it.
Paul Crowe - "The Kneeslider" says
Based on a number of the comments above, it seems many of you have strong political views but this is not the place. No one changes their political view based on a blog comment and any discussion of politics in blog comments descends rapidly into pretty vicious garbage. Thank you for your thoughts.