While on Mark van der Kwaak’s site looking at the Harton, I also noticed a photo of the V-Rage, an interesting bike with a 147″ Engenuity reverse rotating engine and 2 speed automatic transmission by Bertrand Dubet. The ergonomics are not very rider friendly but I thought the engine and transmission combination was pretty interesting. Hmm, a custom with an automatic transmission. They’re coming and I wouldn’t be surprised to see a lot more of these popping up.
Link: V-Rage
Related: Honda DN-01 Human-Friendly Transmission (HFT)
Related: Harley Davidson Automatic
Related: Automatic transmissions in motorcycles
Jeff says
Out with the old in with the new . Looks like the auto craze is here .
aaron says
why a reverse rotating crank? …oh wait, the chopper crowd are in awe of the handling advantages this setup provides to the yamaha m1…
guitargeek says
Blurf.
Clive M-Sanders says
I dont know why, but blurf made me laugh. And it seems to be a good summary of my emotion twords this bike.
What are the advantages of a reverse rotating crank? does that effectively make it a 145 deg engine?
Clive M-Sanders says
wait… that doesnt make any sense.
Bryce says
As a rolling sculpture, it’s fascinating. As an actual motorcycle, I’m not sure I get it.
seattle says
How exactly does the 2-speed automatic work? Does it use a torque converter?
kneeslider says
I think jeff and seattle are the only ones that got the point of the post, maybe I should have cropped the photo down to the engine and transmission. Forget the bike, focus on the transmission, a 2 speed automatic. I couldn’t find any information on the builder’s site about it and I’m a bit curious myself about how this works. For all I know, the reverse rotation could work better with his transmission setup. If I can find more about it I’ll update this.
Remember, focus on the transmission.
Chris says
Judging by the look of the transmission, I’m guessing it works on 2 seperate cones, similar to Nissan’s continuously variable transmission but has two gears to downsize for motorcycle applications.
Richard says
Yes, an automatic makes sense for the chopper crowd. They are typically more interested in the look and sound than they are interested in the ride. But they might have a problem if they can’t rev up their engine to make noise at a stoplight!
This bike looks beautiful, BTW, but useless.
RH says
Probably the cleanest & most compact primary & transmission setup I’ve ever seen on a big twin. With 147″, who needs a shift pedal?
the reverse rotation allows it to run a countershaft output without running a geared primary.
It makes me wonder what that would be like in a Confederate or Ecosse style bike.
LOTS of bikes have “reverse rotation” cranks – nobody notices them. Championships have been won on such engines. But when they don’t, some motojournalist hacks still like to mention that as if they know something about the subject.
Benyen Soljax says
you know, im not so curious as to how it works so much as i am curious as to the impact of automatic trasmissions on the clientell who will be drawn to motorcycles if such transmissions find their way onto something like the GSX-R. theres already a lot of people who should not be riding as it is, and many more who shouldnt have gotten a bike in the first place. will this increase the number of people who ride just because they cant shift a vehicle? or will this be something that only goes so far as people want it to, like to cruisers and touring bikes?
RH says
That transmissions determine rider skill is one of motorcycling’s biggest myths.
Semi-automatics are making their way into racing – it is the current clutch/shifter system that is obsolete – that hasn’t made its way into the ad copy yet. Or into the JENTTSNYB (Just Enough New Technology To Sell Next Year’s Bikes) marketing plan.
As usual, keep an eye on what BMW races and sells in the near future before the “innovative” (Hah!) Japanese companies release them.
Richard says
“That transmissions determine rider skill is one of motorcycling’s biggest myths.” Well, when you over-simplify it like that, then it’s obviously false. The correct idea is that learning to shift a manual transmission takes some effort, so it simply isn’t possible to just hop on a bike and take off without at least SOME instruction and practice. There’s a good chance that if someone tries to ride a bike without ANY instruction and practice, then they’ll fall off in the first few feet and they probably won’t actually die (though I know there’s no guarantee). So, in that sense, a manual transmission probably does enforce a minimum level of skill.
Bryce says
Ah, I get it now. I’ve been riding automatic scooters for several years now and the novelty has worn off. I still enjoy the ease of a CVT around town.
RH says
Yes, there’s the “dimbulb filter” effect that manual transmissions have – not a bad thing – but that doesn’t make the BIKE any safer to operate, does it?. Manual advance, hand shifts, kick starts, etc…., dodn’t make bikes any safer to operate, do they? They certainly do keep the RUBS & squids off machines so equiped. Hmmm – maybe there ought to be a law……..
We all know that getting on the throttle can get one out of trouble, right? How many bikes need a downshift or 4 to get out of their own way in an emergency? NOBODY would tolerate a front brake that requires a game of Simon Says before it was effective. An automatic, done right, would downshift far faster than even a prepared rider in such a situation.
That said, the only automatic bike I’ve ridden was the old Honda 750 – I hated it. But that is a terrible example of what is possible here and now.
Stirring a shifter is satisfying in the same sort of way as popping zits – once you outgrow that stage, you don’t want to go back. Which is why I’d rather ride than play flight engineer.
Speeking of which, there was a hilarious article in “Hot Bike” by Buck Lovell around 17 years ago about “Tweet ‘n’ Clangers” – it mostly mocked the whole dysfunctional chopper thing (Yeah, in Hot Bike – no kiddin’), but it applies to a far broader spectrum than anybody wants to admit.
Richard says
RH, you’re right about the dimbulb filter, that it doesn’t actually make the bike safer, but I don’t think that’s what you originally said, which is why I said what I said.
I have to wonder about that “downshift or 4 to get out of their own way in an emergency”. You don’t ever need to downshift quickly unless you need a smooth, controlled acceleration immediately after a emergency reduction in speed, one that left no time for matching engine speed and choice of gears. That does happen sometimes, but it’s really extremely rare on the road. (It happens all the time in racing, but I don’t think that’s what you were talking about.) If you were talking about fools who ride around in the wrong gear, well of course you’re right, but such people shouldn’t be riding manual transmission vehicles, and maybe not any vehicles, at all.
I’ve been riding bikes, manual transmissions every one, for almost 40 years, and I still enjoy “stirring a shifter”. However, I don’t enjoy contantly up and down shifting through start and stop traffic. So I wouldn’t ride my bike if that’s all I had to look forward to. A motorcycle is not my only means of transportation, so that’s not a problem. And I am almost never stuck in that kind of traffic, anyway.
SO, I’ll keep enjoying the manual transmissions, thank you.
guitargeek says
I’ve said it once before, but it bears repeating now:
Auto… matic??
Why???
I LIKE the fact that one has to learn how to operate a manual transmission in order to ride a motorcycle. It represents a level of commitment.
JC says
One advantage of losing the clutch is you can move the rear brake from clumsy foot to finely controlled hand brake!
There have been a few examples of thumb operated rear brakes in racing, and it is an actual advantage.
I’m not sure I would want an automatic or CVT to gain that advantage, but I’m willing to try a test ride!
How would an automatic or CVT effect engine braking?