If only Erik Buell had had the opportunity to develop the Buell 1125 before being unceremoniously shown the door, especially since the 1190 was waiting in the wings, we might have seen something like this, the Typhon 1190, developed by the Pegasus Race Team and Gruner Engineering over in Germany. Pegasus races an 1190RR in Europe and looked at the design with fresh eyes, coming up with something that could have been the logical evolution of this bike. While Erik is working hard to bring the 1190 to the street, Pegasus and Gruner reconfigured the old design moving the radiators from those huge side pods and came up with a solution that slides them behind the front wheel.
A radiator up front certainly isn’t a new idea unless, you’re really pressed for space, so they squeezed it tight against the engine, so tight, the center of the radiator has to be opened up to fit around the exhaust. The end result is a much cleaner side profile and a narrower front.
The 1190, as installed here, puts out 185 horsepower in a package that weighs 355 pounds before fuel. I guess that’s what happens when racing guys do the buildup. Grins all around.
Our friend Sabine Welte, who we’ve mentioned many times, took all the photos here.
Thanks J.E., for the tip. I’ve had my head down on a lot of technical work and might have missed this for a little while.
Link: 1000ps
Link: Gruner Engineering
Link: Pegasus Race Team
More photos below:
Walt says
Neater and less bizarre than the Buell approach, and probably more marketable. I think Buell’s openness to innovative and different engineering solutions turned on him with those original radiator pods. Motorcycle people appreciate engineering innovations but in my experience are rather conservative when it comes to aesthetics.
kneeslider says
Walt, it was Harley Davidson that kept the Buell from being fully faired, something that would have given it a much more conventional appearance. Harley only allowed minimal funding for the liquid cooled bike and management thought a fairing would make it look like they were competing with the Japanese, which they didn’t want to do, so it was side pods or no bike.
This is one of those interesting bits from the Cycle World article I wrote about.
BobG says
“so it was side pods or no bike.”
I think I would of went with it looking like the Japanese competition. Those pods were not pretty.
Doug says
The side pods are brutal. Ironically, the bike ended up looking somewhat fully-faired due to pod size and the massive frame.
Great job on the bike above. Go Buell
FREEMAN says
Not a bad looking derivative. The more I look at this bike however, the more that empty space under the seat jumps out as another solution to hiding those rads.
Mule says
Now THAT”S a good looking Buell! All except the front view. Eric had a knack for bizzarre styling and this bike has addressed most of the original weirdness.
But with 185 HP, all you’ll see while riding is bugs and birds expoding on your face sheild anyway.
Rashomon says
The radiators are the production radiators from the 1190RR, as sold by Erik Buell Racing. They were designed at Buell for the homologation Superbike version of the Barracuda 2 before the shut-down.
hoyt says
HD not wanting to compete with Japanese? 185 hp with the linear power curve from the Helicon will compete with anyone …for a long time. Now, the looks are great too. Put them in a dealership network that “gets it” and you’ll have sales success.
monkeyfumi says
“If only Erik Buell had had the opportunity to develop the Buell 1125 before being unceremoniously shown the door”
Don’t you mean “If only Erik Buell had developed the Buell 1125 properly before releasing it, he may still be in business under his own name”?
kneeslider says
monkeyfumi, you really should take a look at the Cycle World article I mentioned in the previous comment. You’ll learn about the many influences affecting the 1125 before it was introduced.
kim says
Better than the stock radiators, but why not up under the seat as on the Britten?
Tom says
Ummmmmmmmmmm, yeah. This is the ticket.
christopher says
first Buell gets shut down. that sucks. then i have to look at what could have been over and over again?!?? BRUTAL!!! this example is very easy on the eyes. i sincerely hope Erik brings something to market for the street. SOON.
tim says
Yes. just yes.
By the way, is there a reason you couldnt have TWO of the ZTL perimeter discs on any given wheel? Does it twist when you brake hard (i.e. in racing) could you do two smaller lighter thinner discs instead of one bigger one? Does it matter that all that weight is at the wheel rim, rather than closer to the centre, where it spins?
In terms of crash protection, you’d want some case savers too, I’d think.
Sorry, they’re just things I wondered when looking at that bike, or any Buell.
tim says
By the way, that Cycle World article is the best stuff Ive read on Buell. Very very good.
Kevin says
This is great. I read in MotorcycleUSA that Pegasus asked Buell about a Street Fighter like this. Buell said they wanted to make one but their priority was getting the 1190RS ready for production. Once that is done then they could work on a street fighter. Pegasus offered to work on a concept model so Buell sent them CAD parts of the bike and Gruner came up with this in a short time. So the Typhon 1190 may follow the 1190RS. Some sort of street fighter will and Buell liked this so expect something similar.
Kevin says
tim
About the ZTL. There are many things that it does. The whole point of it, as you probably know, is to reduce weight while not affecting braking power. One ZTL is much lighter than 2 regular disks/calipers. So adding a second ZTL, even if it were thinner, would add another disk and another caliper likely adding weight and cost. Now, the second benefit of a ZTL is there is not torque being applied through the spokes, so the spokes can be designed much lighter. As the rear has the power going through it this would add no benefit for that and increase by having a larger disk in the rear. Yes, having the weight farther from the center of the wheel does increase the moment of inertia, but I think the benefits of one light disk plus a lighter rim outweight that.
Bob says
Nice looking bike. That is one huge radiator though. I prefer the looks of the Magpul Ronin.
Thom says
I like it. A lot. Just adds fuel to the fire of my hatred for Harley Davidson for not seeing how great Erik Buell’s designs COULD have been if they had just let him run with it. I am STILL boycotting Harley.
Scott says
Very cool bike! I think there are some misconceptions floating around though. My understanding (and you can find this for yourself on photos of the 1190RR) is that the radiator is pretty much right off the 1190RR. The Pegasus/Gruner contribution seems to be the framing of the radiator (more appropriate for an unfaired bike), the air baffles, rear fender, and guage. Other than those things, it seems to be basically a stripped down 1190RR. The cool thing is I think this bike gives us a good look at what the 1190RS will look like beneath the fairing. The actual fairing of the 1190RS is still a secret but is likely to be similar to the 1190RR and Barracuda.
As for things like ZTL, people still seem very skeptical, but the brakes didn’t seem to be bothering Geoff May in Superbike last year. Next year, when he has the whole package, I think we’ll FINALLY get to see what Erik Buell’s ideas can do when all the pieces are in place.
Can’t wait for Daytona!
Scott says
Also regarding ZTL, let’s not forget that Pegasus BLEW THE COMPETITION AWAY with the ZTL on their 1190RR.
Scott says
. . . and a suggestion for anybody who isn’t already hooked up but has facebook. Hit the ‘like’ button at the EBR facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Erik-Buell-Racing/197762537495?ref=search&sid=1399203865.2018288789..1 and you’ll get updates as they happen.
I think there’s an AMA tire test at Daytona toward the end of December and I’m hoping EBR will have a couple 1190RR’s there. . . though I haven’t heard for sure they will.
mustridemore says
Is there anywhere that you can read the Cycle World article online?
kneeslider says
mustridemore, just follow the link in the post I refer to above and you can buy the single issue with that article and read it online immediately.
4Cammer says
Mama always said that I should not hate, but seeing stuff like this makes me hate HD management/board even more. Why build a competitive (class leading?) US made sportbike when you can just rehash the same old bikes with denim paint and tractor seats….all the while taking a gov bailout and shedding employees.
dcm says
i actually like the view from the front, in my head the look matches the name nicely. Great bike
tim says
Sorry about this, but just on the ZTL brake again, how does the torque NOT go through the spokes, enabling them to be lighter. (I’m as good an engineer as I am a plumber or electrician, so please bear with me). Here is my thinking: the force is applied to the wheel rim, sure, which is close to the tyre contact patch. Fantastic. and the two parts that are connected are the fork bottom and the wheelrim. but what you’re topping is the motorcycle and rider who are attached to that wheel via the spokes, hub, fork and rest of the motorbike.
My thinking is the force is applied at the tyre contact patch, and it must travel through that system, including the wheel.
Sorry to be dense. If one of you good people could help me out I’d be grateful. Imagine you’re talking to a 12 year old kid, that’ll give you an idea of my level of understanding…. thanks 🙂
tim says
edit: “What you’re [b]s[/b]topping is the motorcycle………”
joe says
Get rid of that ugly tractor muffler hanging under the bike and fit some nice flowing pipes.With that taken care of, I think they have a winner.
Scott says
Tim,
Larger diameter = less force needed. I’m dating myself, but I remember in my high school physics class our teacher illustrated with an old fashioned (it was just normal at that time) record turn-table. If you tried to stop or slow down the turn-table by putting your finger down near the center, it was very difficult, but much less force near the outer rim stopped the turn-table with ease.
That’s what’s happening with ZTL. Less force applied near the edge gives the same stopping effect. In either case, the force its passed through the spokes . . . in the case of ZTL, there’s simply less of that force being passed through, so the spokes don’t need to be as beefy.
tim says
@Scott
Thank you. I am one of those strange people who still owns a record turntable, so your example is absolutely appropriate. Ive also been thinking about bicycle rim brakes too.
Thanks again
Kevin says
@Tim
Scott’s explanation more explains why you only need 1 ZTL disc brake as opposed to 2 standard ones.
Here is why the spokes can be lighter. The tire is in contact with the road. With a traditional brake setup the brake is located on the hub. When applying brakes it puts a torque on the hub. The torque must travel through the spokes out to the tire contact patch.
Now in ZTL the brake is attached to the rim. The torque is applied to the rim and travels directly to the tire contact patch. The spokes are not connecting them. There is zero torque being applied to the spokes. As the hub freely spins on the axle there can be no torque applied to the spokes.
The force that will be applied to the spokes is pure compression, which is a much easier force to deal with.
Hope that helps.
strong robert says
Replace the clip-ons on with bars and lower the footpegs and you have ‘S’ model. Which i’m sure would be a hit with those that want at the bike but not the racer riding position.
Maxhell says
will this one come to the market ? or is it just the one prototype modell ?