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Triumph Small Displacement Single Cylinder Rumors

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Triumph 350cc Street Single
Triumph 350cc Street Single

As noted the other day in comments on the post about Triumph heading to India, there are rumors of Triumph planning a new street single in the 350cc range. I notice the August issue of Motorcyclist picked up on an article from Motociclismo, reporting on plans to assemble a motorcycle in Manuas, Brazil from knock down kits manufactured in Thailand. It would show up sometime in 2012.

The engine would be a liquid cooled 4 valve single, displacing anywhere from 267cc to 350cc depending on the market.

As rumors go, this one is getting a lot of traction but no one is confirming things one way or the other.

True or not, would a 350cc street single work in the US? In many other countries, yes, but here? We’ve tossed the idea around before of everyone thinking they need a big bore bike, even though something in the 350 range would be perfectly suited for newer riders and even some who are just looking for a casual weekend ride. Lots of us “men of a certain age” who fondly remember the 60s, when a 305 Honda was a lot of bike, have to admit those days are long gone. A 350cc engine today would do everything those early engines did and a lot more but attitudes have been shaped by the big engines now stuffed in everything from beginner bikes to super bikes. Then again, one of these singles would be pretty affordable and it might get a foothold on cost alone.

If this Triumph appears in the US, getting a few riders to try it might be enough to generate decent sales and it might help reestablish the idea that bigger isn’t necessarily better. Interesting.

Link: Motociclismo

Posted on Filed Under: Motorcycle Business

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Comments

  1. I just downsized to a new CBR250. It’s a great little machine, I love it, and I’d trade it in a heartbeat for a 350 Tiger Cub – c’mon Triumph, do it and recycle that great old name.

  2. I hope it takes off, but I am not sure that us Yanks understand that sometimes “less is more”

      • Actually, you would be amazed. I feel like the generation of new riders is starting to pick up the small bore flag. CBR 250’s and Ninja 250’s are the fastest selling bikes at the shop I work in. A lot of guys who 4 years ago never would have considered a 250 now realize how perfect it is.

  3. My Sprint ST is loads of fun, but not so practical around town. A smaller Triumph would be great!

  4. I’m in my 20s, but I haven’t owned a bike bigger than 550cc (3 and counting), and I don’t really ever plan on it. I’m a small guy, so I can’t manhandle a half-ton bike, nor do I need the extra power to haul me around. 350-450ccs is really ideal, especially with modern engine tech packing more than enough power and efficiency.

    I love the triumph aesthetic, and would definitely be interested in this engine, especially if they are willing to port it into their other “modern classic” styles. A 350cc thumper Scrambler would be just fantastic. The “small” 865cc mill is just overkill for me, not to mention the 675 and 1050 race engines and the nigh-on-ridiculous 2294 Rocket III.

    Either way, I think this bike, priced around $5000, would sell very well to beginners, short people, women, and well-endowed gentlemen with nothing to prove.

  5. A 350cc single would be cool but how about a 500 twin Triumph ? Keep the price around $5000 US and I will put down a deposit

    • I’d love to see a bike like the Triumph T100 resurrected. I saw a green one for sale on Ebay recently; it was in really nice shape. What a beautiful motorcycle! 500 cc’s would be great; I commute to work on a 1980 Suzuki GS450E and it has plenty of power to go highway speeds. I love small bikes, because they are light, easy to handle, and go faster than a lot of people realize. That’s why I may look for a Monster 620 someday, but I love the small twins. I’m currently fixing up a 74 Honda CB200, which is a fun little bike, but something in the 400 to 500 cc range would be more practical as far as highway ability is concerned.

  6. I ride a 400cc motorcycle regularly. The only riding it does not handle well is 4 lane or more limited access highways where everyone is running over 65 mph all the time. 55 mph 2 laners are perfect and it will cruise at 60+ mph all day long. It will run over 70mph, but it is not where the bike is comfortable. Back roads with curves is where it shines. My 400cc bike accelerates faster than all but the most aggressive traffic and is light and nimble in a way that many younger riders have never experienced.

    I imagine the proposed 350cc Triumph would have these positive characteristics and a bit more speed given that my bike is over 30 years old and has a finicky CV carb. I’m all for the new bike….but given that I have my smaller bike, I will not be in the market until the supply of oversize pistons and rings runs out.

  7. I don’t think it would sell well here. As someone else said, a 500 or so twin might do better. I also think it would better in a more classic looking package, but that is just me.

    I am old enough to remember when Honda came out with the 750 and it was considered big. And when I had a ’72 Tiger 650 I didn’t think more was needed. And I owned that bike for 20 years or so. But having owned a 1000cc Concours for four years now, I can’t see my self going any smaller.

    There are some situations where a 350 would make sense. As a first bike a 350 would be perfect, but can Triumph convince kids of that? For a fifteen minute commute to work, a 350 would probably be just the ticket. But how many buy a bike just for that? I don’t think the sales would justify the expense of making the bike available here.

    • with gas prices being the way they are, I think there is definitely a market for small bikes like this. They are cheap to purchase, cheap to insure, and cheap to run. They may not go 100 + mph (although my 450 probably could do the ton), but they are light, flickable, and a hell of a lot of fun to ride.

      • If Triumph brought this to the US, would it be cheap compared to the Japanese bikes? If not there might still be some interest, but I don’t think enough to make it worth it for Triumph to go through the hoopla required to make a bike legal in the US.

  8. I think it might sell but it would be a mistake to make it look to racy. Sheep in wolfs clothing thing. Make something easy to customize, and with a comfortable seat for a passenger and it should work. Take a hard look at CB350 or HD Sprint Kawasaki Avenger etc. These bikes were fun.

    • Mel, I couldn’t agree more. I can appreciate the technology of modern sport bikes, but I want to see the engine! Even modern so-called naked bikes hide too much of the engine. Something like the old UJM twins of the 70’s, or of course the Brit twins from the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s and would be perfect, especially if it had a kickstarter 🙂

  9. I think perhaps something with a bit more of a classic aesthetic would be more appealing here in the US. It might be just the ticket for someone who would like a BSA but wants better reliability. Yeah, I know that sounds like a Royal Enfield, but hey Triumph can do it too, why not?

    That said, I’d be surprised if they brought it to the US.

  10. “Back in the day” I remember a friend who bought a BSA 650 Golden Flash. He couldn’t insure it without going on the “assigned risk” program for high risk drivers, despite a clean record. “Too big”, they claimed.

    Now, I see many riders who equate massive torque with “horsepower”. Keep the revs low, the pipes snarly and the chorme shiny. Stump pulling torque in your right hand. (surprising that HD haven’t come out with a diesel, eh?) seems to be the idea.

    Since surgery precluded me getting back on the old Wing, I’ve gone to a 650 which is plenty fast enough to get me into the criminal code. A 350 or 500 would probably do just fine unless I wanted to carry a 300 pounder on the pillion …. I don’t.

    HD and presumably Polaris/Indian serve a segment of the market very well and competition is probably suicdal. But if Triumph and others produce good handling bikes that are comfortable to ride (Think Corbin) and don’t need a crane to pick it up, there is a whole new segment of the commuter market out there just waiting. Gas at $5 a gallon …. who cares? A king’s ransom to park …. hey, 6 in a stall makes you smile! Much of the US has great weather for biking too.

    In my opinion, keep the costs down and don’t use $5,000 throw away computer boxes.

  11. I think it would be a great alternative to, or a stepping stone up from, a twis and go scooter.
    For me, I mostly commute on two, and for that I have one of three rides to choose from. A Ducati ST3, a Ducati 900SS, and a chinese GY6 scooter. My commute is slightly less than 10 miles of surface roads, no speed limit above 45, so I normally take the scooter. As much as I love the Ducs, they are just too much for such a short ride, my old commute was about 45 miles of mixed highway/surface, well suited for bigger machines. That being said, something is missing in riding a twist-n-go scooter, and I would love to get a cool looking small bike to runabout on. I would’ve pulled the trigger on a ‘Zuk TU250 but having just gotten off the unemployment rollercoaster fundage just wasn’t there.
    Then again, talk is cheap. I say I would love to buy one, and I truly would, but more likely I will be stuck just dreaming.

    • I can say that I’m new enough to thekneeslider that I didn’t know that existed. I would have loved to take it for a test drive! If the frame was solid enough, source some sportbike suspension do-dads from ebay and hit the road! If it was a steel frame, you can cut and weld as you please to make it what you want.

  13. At 250 pounds I would personally never purchase a small single for myself but I think that there is a market for such bikes in the US. As the cost of fuel rises there will be more and more people considering 2 wheeled transportation and not everyone wants a crotch rocket or large cruiser. Small bore scooters work nice to zip around in the city but aren’t that well suited for longer commutes.

  14. Considering the smashing success MZ had, I’m sure Triumph is in a big rush to go down the same path.

    I wonder how many of those whining for a light twin actually bought one of several that were/are in the market: EX500/GS500/ER-6N/SV650/etc…

    There is very little difference in weight between a low spec 500 twin and a higher spec liter bike. I own both a Ninja 500R (later version of the EX500) and a later ZX9R – the 900 is every bit as maneuverable and nimble as the 500R – and more so as the speeds and effort go up. The 900 feels bigger between the knees – that doesn’t effect the handling one bit.

    I am thoroughly convinced that those who cry/whine for a light affordable new single wouldn’t buy one anyway – the appeal mearly lies in the fact that the keyboard daydreamers would find the fantasy of buying such a bike a little less far fetched than what else is parked in the fantasy alley.

    If you really want to know what a single would feel like, just pull the plug off a twin – singles usually have 90% of the weight of a twin with 50% of the power. And the appeal of that is…?

      • I agree. I had a Bandit 1200, and when the missus got her license, she got a Zephyr 400. She broke that bike in in no time at all, and wanted something more like a CBF600. The idea of a small bike is nice, but that CBF600 is so light nowadays, not even a 5’4″ girl finds it difficult to ride. It also has the pep to keep with the Suzuki, which the 400 simply didn’t have. I rode it a few times. Nice to tool around on, but constantly revving the snot out of the motor to keep with traffic gets old quick.

      • I don’t think either of you guy’s have ridden anything fairly new in the single cylinder market. I have a 1996 900 Ducati monster and a 2003 450 KTM EXC. The KTM is faster from 0 to 60 mph than the Ducati. Oh and don’t even start with the crap about my Duc having something wrong with it, it is in perfect condition and tune. The KTM is simply a fantastic example of modern single cylinder technology. I

        • I agree that the KTM 450 is a great bike with a powerful motor. Unfortunately I don’t believe that it would make a good motor for a commuter or learner machine. The service intervals on this type of ‘competition’ engine make it expensive to maintain unless you can do this yourself. Most people here seem to be wanting a cheap, simple, economical and retro styled bike.

    • I’ve owned both an SV650 and a GPz500 and really liked both of them. Ive also owned a GB400 and an SRX-6. My next bike will be a Triumph Street Triple R: I did a lot of miles on an RZ350 in the late 80’s and the 675 reminds me of that.

      There’s something great about a light nimble flickable middleweight.

      Of course, I don’t live anywhere near the U.S. so perhaps I just answered your point?

  15. Everyone always says how much they want a small displacment bike but in reality few actually buy them. To make it cool it would need to be made well with very tight fit and finish yet still be much less expensive than a comparable larger engine bike. So if a 350 Triumph Bonne somes in at $5K it would have a shot but a full on Bonne costs less than $8k so it could be a hard sell.

    I dont know. Cheap would be the only reason to get the smaller bike, no? Either that or the US would need to adopt a tiered licence program. Honestly the reason these bikes are popular in other parts of the world are A. tiered licenses. and/or B. they are cheap.

  16. With cheap gas, generally lower than elsewhere prices of new bikes and pretty mild speeding laws, I’d say no … this bike would never take off in the US.

    In Canada it might be different, especially in Ontario where 50 over means bike seizure on the side of the road. No judge needed.

    People in North America generally prefer to ride huge cc bikes slow, instead of slow bikes fast …… so not this single 350cc four stroke will not work except for few enthusiasts.

    • The Ontario fines are about $10,000 too. In BC you get impounded for 40 over and a load of fines, fees and insurance hikes totalling about $1,400 …. if you’re polite to the cop.

  17. I appreciate the comment about the 60’s and a 305 being a lot of bike at the time. I remember my first ride on a “Super Hawk” and thought OMG this is powerful. A modern lightweight 350 single would be a good machine for a lot of folks. Newbies and geezers alike… Keep the cost down and it will sell … Go Triumph!

  18. My personal requirements for a bike? Light and nimble as possible while being about to do 60-65 mph comfortably. After that, I just need enough haulage ability to carry my lunch and a spare pair of boots to work.

    I ride a Shadow 600 and that works fine for me so far, but I’ve been eye-balling old P-twins to strip down and lighten up. Also been thinking about a modern Enfield with an engine tweak or two.

    A lightweight trump? Sure, I’d like to broaden my choices. 🙂

  19. i think its a great idea. i like big displacement bikes, too, but theyre big and heavy like sitting on a locomotive. small bikes are more fun. triumph please bring this here!

  20. I ride a 1984 xt 600 with 140000Km on the clock on the original rings so I would guess its now putting out about 30bhp. In the UK on our motorways the speed limit is 70 (there are no signs saying this but its easy to tell as its the one speed no one goes) cars and bikes go 80 and lorrys go 60. My old single has no problems keeping up with the 80mph crowd. I imagine a modern 350 single would keep up fine with a US free-way.
    Rohorn I think your % values are a bit off If well made I think 80% weight 75% power would be about right but sometimes 20% reduction of weight is important. I would never want a bike that weighs more than 150Kg dry. I used to have a bmw K100 and I don’t want to go back to that ever, ideally i want to feel like the 8 year old me with cards in the spokes of my bike.

  21. In the 60’s 350 was a lot of bike. But 200lbs was a lot of a person. Now, not so abnormal.

    Go wander around any shopping plaza (or look down).

  22. I’m all for it. A nice state of tune 350 would still be enough for highway use, at least occasionally. Just remember that 600 cc sportbikes have more than enough power for most adults.

    The interesting question is whether a highly tuned 350 would get better or worse fuel economy than a torquey 600?

  23. ” … this bike would never take off in the US.”

    That is the exact same reasoning used to explain “why” US riders would never buy cafe racers, especially in the midwest. And I guess that’s why you never see any sport bikes in the USA now, especially in the midwest, right?

    It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy, until someone acts aggressively to break the cycle (no pun intended) and in the process makes a lot of money. Sure, these wouldn’t be sold to many people who’re presently out to buy a really big bike, but the bike companies are missing out on a great many customers through short-sightedness. As I’ve said before, this is one of the reasons the Japanese companies were able to gain a big foothold in North America: the European bike importers did the big bike route almost exclusively, because they thought North Americans wouldn’t buy smaller bikes. They were wrong, and it bit them bigtime. The Japanese are making the same mistake now, doubly stupid because they already have the bikes ready. This has the potential for a big mistake and handing a big segment of the market over to the Chinese (and/or Koreans) if they can manage to get their act together.

    There’s a market; it may not be the biggest segment of the market or the most profitable, but then the “cafe racer” market was — apparently — positively tiny when Kawasaki, Honda, and BMW took their first tentative steps into it in NA. Now it turned out that was a huge market. It’s what Honda ran into, attitude-wise, when they first brought in their step-throughs, when importers figured no one would buy them in numbers because no one did then… but they weren’t for sale.

  24. I really don’t understand why so many people limit the matter to money.
    Maybe because I am a short guy, or because I’m getting old, or simply because I am a minimalist, but I think that the fun of riding a bike is first of all about lightness, agility, speed in bends.
    There is a lot of fun to be had in a good 350 cc bike, and I am not sure that a big bike could be so much better on the road, even about speed. Track is another matter: you could have a lot of fun in an Indy or Nascar car on a track, but could you really enjoy it on the road? And could you easily stop and restart at a downtown traffic light? And would you be faster than an opponent on a small, good, sports car?
    Or, in your everyday run, would you always feel more comfortable in a motorhome than in a good, well made sedan?
    Cheers. Claudio
    Many years of races in Europe have clearly demonstrated that small capacity bikes have as much appeal than big ones.
    So, IMHO a 350 cc bike would be a very good option for an open minded rider. Maybe sometimes a two-wheeled toy can be more entertaining than a two wheeled truck.
    And if you even spare some money, all the better for you!

  25. Sorry for my typo. Of course “Cheers. Claudio” should have gone to the bottom

  26. Hmmm, make it a 350cc twin. Keep the weight on par with a ex250 and I’d buy one. Then again I own GL1000, EX250, T500 suzuki and frankly if a motocycle weighs more than 550# it’s bloated pig, if it’s got more than 800cc you ARE compentsating for a lacking in your life. But that’s just my learned and superior opinion.

  27. I had a Suzuki 400 bandit. It was a 4 not a single, but it was fast enough to scare me silly!

  28. I think it’s a great idea just give it, and all bikes, adjustable ergonomics (adjustable seat height, pegs, handle bars etc) so it fits more people! At 6’3″ way too many bikes feel cramped, my 3 teenage boys are worse off, the youngest is my height already, the oldest is pushing 6’6″!

  29. please! I’ve been hoping for a 350 single, sans plastic parts, ever since I sold my ducati single. Give us an aggressive looking, naked single, full frame. the home rebuilders are doing exactly this with twins from the seventies. the market exists for the smart designer. just do it!
    (take the plastic off the ninja 250 and cbr250r and the look is pathetic).

  30. For decades Americans have voted with their checkbooks, 4 cylinders and lots of power won, singles and twins with lots of appeal but less power lost. Those bikes were imported to the US but only for a couple of years most of the time. Remember the beautiful Honda GB500? Or the 650 Hawk V-Twin? Even the Suzuki VX800 wasn’t powerful enough. Those are just a few sales flops that come to mind.
    Sorry guys, a 350 Triumph, if it will be built, will be for the Euros and the Asians!

  31. A little tiny parallel twin would be cool, although I love thumpers.

    But… forget all that…. we need a 350-450cc triple triumph!!!!!

  32. Bring a 500 single in at less that 300 lbs and you’ve got a great all around motorcycle. Properly promoted anything sells.

  33. Years ago Roger Reiman and I were at a Yamaha dealer meeting in Las Vegas and happened to be riding on an elevator together (no I didn’t really know him that well) and were discussing him being a Yamaha/HD dealer. He said he needed smaller displacement bikes at his shop to get his customers started at his dealership to better enable him to sell them the larger and more profitable bikes. Harley had no product that was market competitive at the time and Yamaha did…..
    No doubt Triumph is not directing this single at the US market but the world market where in some places there is an age/horsepower/cc limitation.
    It would be great if some of the manufacturers would bring out some product with great mpg potential. Sucks when the Toyota Prius gets better gas mileage than most cycles……

  34. Once you’ve become accustomed to riding a bigger and more powerful bike, it’s easy to dismiss the small singles, and while you might find them highly flickable, fun and easy to toss one way or another, the easy roll on of most any larger engine is pretty seductive. If you’ve been riding for a long time, you’ll be a hard sell.

    Younger or newer riders might have a lot of fun on one of these but when is the last time you saw an ad for something that wasn’t oriented to extreme performance. I guess everyone is supposed to be Ben Spies. You never see a “You meet the nicest people on a Honda” type ad anymore. I guess everyone is so fast and cool they can’t slow down and enjoy the ride like we used to and that’s sad.

    I would be surprised to see this show up in the US or sell in any numbers. But, what would really shock me, would be to see an advertising campaign from Triumph focusing on how cool it is to just go for a ride. Maybe a young guy takes his girlfriend for a Saturday cruise on the back roads or a few young people each ride their own Triumph and enjoy the freedom many of us felt those long years ago.

    Have people changed that much? Can today’s young people here in the US still have fun just riding and feeling free without going 100mph? I bet they can, but they won’t buy what they don’t want and if they don’t see a 350 single as a way to do something fun, it will sit and gather dust in showrooms everywhere. Show them the possibilities, show young people riding everywhere, something they can imagine themselves doing and you could have a winner.

    • I hadn’t noticed….except maybe to laugh and point that is. 8^) I’m getting old, all I care about is “comfort, lack of stuff not needed, weight”. Keep it simple keep it light and I’m happy. I can do multiple 1k days back to back on a EX250…so WHY would a I need some litre plus POS with more plastic than a Bayliner boat dealership? ABS? No thanks, more junk to break that doesn’t work. GPS? heh, I use actual maps and I find 4 lanes loathsome.
      So somebode explain way this triumph is a bad idea? When FJR’s and GL1800’s such are really bad ideas with no practical purpose?

    • “Have people changed that much? Can today’s young people here in the US still have fun just riding and feeling free without going 100mph?”

      Sadly, I think the answer might be yes, and today’s marketing trends, (highly effective in our modern, lemming like world) do everything they can to enforce this mindset. Independent thought is rarely thought of as wise in todays world.

      I would love to see a 350 twin modeled after the Bonneville, or the original 3TA, (sans bathtub bodywork). These were fantastic little bikes, but didn’t sell well here even in their heyday. I rode many miles on a 21 and it was one of the sweetest running motors I ever owned. No one takes the time anymore to find the joy in that certain sound, feel, or feeling of a well running machine, whether it’s making 1hp or 100hp. I realize I am only re-enforcing the sterotype that my “Oldtimer” moniker implies, but many are so wrapped up in whatever is the hottest new trend, they rarely have time to explore the finer and in some ways more enjoyable sublties of any machine. Sometimes too busy finding and probing every possible real or percieved fault, and sometimes just too wrapped up in ego or prejudice.

      As far as Triumph’s marketing, or starting another “you meet the nicest people” type approach, don’t hold your breath. As a Triumph owner, and a very happy Triumph owner, I must admit, I still cringe every time I open the mail box and there is my latest version of the Tri magazine/advertisement, and staring back from the pages are one after another angst filled beautiful people who are just so damn cool, how could I NOT buy another?!?

      • “No one takes the time anymore to find the joy in that certain sound, feel, or feeling of a well running machine, whether it’s making 1hp or 100hp”
        I like this. even though my age is probably below the average reader in this blog, i found out that my 28 years old bike has a very entertaining sound, from the broken front disc brake that makes a clink sound everytime my bike hits a bump to unfastened chain cover on the back, the sound of small and noisy engine with loose valve coming from chrome steel pipe on the back. I LOVE IT! makes me relax after a full day in office going home on that little bike of mine.

  35. I’m six feet tall and 200 pounds. I commute on a small-displacement single (scooter). I bumped it up to 185cc and added a bunch of other performance modifications after it blew up. It’s comfortable at 45 to 50 mph…exciting at 55 to 60…and dangerous at any higher speeds, due to the risk of it exploding and locking up the rear wheel (again). Doubling the power thru a displacement increase should make it comfortable at 60 to 65 mph (???)

    My first bike a quarter-century ago was a 750 Brit. My venture into small displacement scooters has been a lot of fun. It’s also been an eye-opener. I sense a nearing end to the “cheap” scooter craze, here in south FL, as a result of flakey dealers and awful products. If Triumph can provide a RELIABLE product with a low initial price and reasonable true operating costs, they may be able to capture much of that vanishing market segment.

    But they’ve got to make’em cool…like scooters.

  36. Small displacement bikes are the compact pickup trucks of the motorcycle world. Everyone says they want one, and is jealous of what people in foreign countries get, but, at least in the past, the sales haven’t been there. That does seem to be changing though, and it is a lot less expensive to make a motorcycle meet federal regulations than a pickup. Is there still a retaliatory tariff on small bikes from Europe over cow hormones (similar to the chicken tax the pickups face)? Obviously ifthis was made in Brazil or India that issue woul be avoided.

  37. This would be very cool. BUT- it would never sell in the US. Everyone knows it. Marketing could help a long way, *IF* the mfg’s were so inclined… but, unfortunately, the staus quo will prevail in the US. Big displacement, heavy bikes, or high-horsepower missiles… That’s all that sells. At least, that’s all that the dealerships are *willing* to sell…

    AS far as Hanks’ question: That bike was a styling exercise.. Nothing more.

    • I absolutely agree. A 250 to 350cc bike is considered a big bike here in Asia, where 90% of the bikes range from 100 to 125cc. There are some CBR150Rs and some 200cc choppers on the road, some 250 Ninjas or KLX, but mostly in higher developed areas. The new CBR250R generated as much buzz as a new liter bike in the US. Personally I ride a 125cc half-automatic with 9 horses every day because you can’t beat them for practicality and economy. This is a world Americans can’t imagine if they haven’t seen it. In the US a 650 is considered a beginner’s or girl’s bike!
      A foreign Triumph with 300cc is a dream for an Indian motorcycle enthusiast, which only very few people will be able to afford. But India is developing rapidly and offering a bike that size is s mart move.
      In Europe riders appreciate smaller bikes and it should sell there, depending on nthe price. Offering it in the US would be a mistake. Honda is giving it a try with the CBR250R – I wonder how it’s selling in the US, that should indicate if there is a growing market for simple, low-priced small capacity bikes.

  38. My thoughts are NO it would not work, unless they plan to add MX bikes to their line up. There are already very capable lightweights out there (250 Ninja, CBR) but they sell in very small numbers.

  39. If Triumph give this bike the go ahead, I hope they don’t try to emulate the Japs or the Austrians.
    While the CBR250R and the Ninja 250 are decent bikes, they just don’t have the appeal or the performance to tug at the heart strings. You just have to take one look at them to see that they were designed with European learner laws and the Asian small bore market in mind. The end result is a great cheap little bike, but that is all it is. A cheap bike that will hopefully bring you back to the dealer for an upgrade.
    The KTM Duke 125 is another matter. It is a quality bit of kit that stands head and shoulders above it’s competition, except maybe the Aprillia RS125 . It looks spectacular (if you like KTM’s angular design philosophy, which I do), like it was made to carve up corners with attitude.
    But…and it is a big but. The baby Duke only makes 15 horses…..again falling foul of European learner laws.
    If KTM were to stick a version of their 450 or 300 powerplants into the bike I would buy it in a heartbeat.
    So Triumph. If you are considering a small-bore bike, please oh please make a little performance bike.
    Not a budget entry level Trumpet. Something that will tug at our souls after we park it up, make us turn back, smile, then go for another spin just for the hell of it.
    Because, after all, if we all used our heads instead of our hearts we’d be driving Smart cars and wheres the fun in that.

    • Kenny, have you actually ridden a Ninja 250? I agree that they not much to look at, they don’t have upside-down forks or Oehlins shocks, but therefore they are cheap. I’ve owned a ZX9R, an Intruder 1400 and several K100RS, and once you’re used to them, considering about a 30hp bike is a just a joke. But here in Thailand where everybody rides 125cc bikes a 30hp bike is like a rocket! I’ve had a VTR250 and couldn’t believe how much fun it is to blast on that light bike through the countryside, revving the hell out of the little engine. I can split lanes, get through tight spots and change lanes in a second.
      If you’re not a horsepower junkie or have the need to show off with the latest superbike, a 250 can be a hoot to ride! Kind of like a go-cart on a track can be more fun than a Corvette in traffic.

      • Hey Klaus, no I haven’t ridden a Ninja 250, I own a CBR250R, the 22 year old one. 160 kilos and 45 hp @ 16,000k rpm, assuming it’s still making that.
        So no I’m not a horsepower junkie, though I may be a rev junkie.
        I am essentially hoping that triumph will build a bike catering to me. A high quality little corner carver with at most 50hp.

        • 160 kilo – whoa, that’s heavy! Just kidding. The Hornet 250 would be the bike for you, if you can get it in your country.
          If Triumph will build a small bike it’ll probably be a simple 350 single for the Asian market. Not too many goodies to keep it cheap, 35hp max, good looks and the Triumph name.

  40. I’d love one to share with my wife.

    People don’t think a 350 can handle highways? I used to have a 350 single (modified as a cafe racer) and it could do highways just fine, even higher if I twisted the throttle. I think the people who say that a 350 is too small have never ridden anything less than 883cc. No matter what bike you are on it is only putting out around 15 hp to do 75 mph or so. A bike that has a 30 hp potential can easily put out 15 hp.

    The most favorite bikes I’ve owned (or still own, like my GB500) have been “small” bikes. I also have a big Ducati but it’s not as much fun to ride. It’s just more impressive to show up on.

    Kawasaki sells a tremendous amount of 250s. I read that Kawasaki sells 30 Ninja 250s for every ONE Honda Interceptor. I wonder why Honda wants to sell a CBR250 now?

    A 350 Triumph would be on the top of my list. I think I’ll hold off on buying the CBR250 to see if the Triumph pans out.

    -todd

  41. I commute to work on a Buell Blast. I personally love my bike. It’s simple, cheap, reliable, get great mileage, and I can do all the work on it myself. I bought it for all those reasons. When I pull up at work and park in the motorcycle lot, most of the time I am the only one under 600 cc’s. There are only a couple other’s that have small displacement bikes (a few street-legal dirt bikes, but sometimes scooters). The other riders at work usually only talk about how awesome they ride fast. What kind of performance mods they want to do to their bike, that kind of stuff. I haven’t modified my bike except to make my own saddlebags so I can actually take my lunch with me to work. My point is: people are going to buy whatever they will buy. If I were to forecast the potential market for a bike like this in my area, I would say it would not sell well. It just simply isn’t what many would buy. Most riders I know just want to ride like a speeding idiot. Not many just want to get where they are going like myself. Personally, I like the bike, but then again I’ve already got one just like it.

  42. I think a 350 Triumph would make sense assuming a few ifs can be met: If they are already making it to sell in other markets; if they could sell enough here to cover Federalization; if it will not damage the brand perception they have built up in the US.

    Nobody but the Japanese big 4 sell anything modern below a 500. It could be a good feeder for them if the folks who are comfortable starting out on smaller bikes get started on something other than a Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, or Kawasaki. Again, without those other ifs being met, it probably is a really uphill business case to make for the US.

  44. I like the idea of smaller bikes, and thumpers are fun. But I’m sticking to my Street Triple. In 30+ years I’ve yet to need anything over 750cc, but there have been times when that extra power got me out of a bad situation.
    That said, I think a 350 single would be a great starter and commuter bike.

  45. Sometimes less is more. I currently have a Honda 230l which I use many times a day for around town transportation and for dirt road riding in the winter. I’ve owned it 8 months and racked up 4,000 miles. I have 3 larger bikes and a pickup truck. If Triumph came out with a 350cc single that could run 65mph all day I’d buy one in a heartbeat. The best urban streetfighter I ever owned was a drz400s which I could corner faster on these rough streets than I can with my 08 Street Triple. Also considering the TU250X suzuki for my stable as I love retro bikes.

  46. “This would be very cool. BUT- it would never sell in the US.”

    As I said before, this is exactly what was said about sports bikes, back when I was searching out clipons and such for a cafe racer in the early 1970s. Such bikes would simply never sell in the USA, especially in the midwest where twisty roads were rarer than places on the coasts. Now you see these bikes in huge numbers everywhere in the USA you look. The view that they wouldn’t sell was wrong. The view that they wouldn’t sell was predicated on the fact that few people bought any such bikes in the USA back then and that fact was because they weren’t for sale.

    It just is not true.

  47. Haven’t seen the RZ 350 mentioned so far in this discussion. Was it a sales success?

    • In the USA? No.

      I bought a new RZ350 (with KR paint!) that had been sitting on the showroom floor for several years for $2000.00 back in ’86. The reason why I went to that dealer was so I could look at the then new SRX600 – he didn’t get one since he figured it wouldn’t sell.

      Fast forward to 1992 – another nearby Yamaha dealer says I can have the new SRX600 that has been sitting on his showroom floor for $2000.00. Having since ridden several “big” singles, I passed on it.

      • Yamaha sold around 20,000 RZ350s in its short, two years in the USA. Dealers had a hard time sourcing them. The only thing that killed them off was the EPA (and CARB).

        -todd

  48. Small bikes are good for limited riding. A short Sunday spin …. a quick commute. If there is a market for that ….. then that will prove itself in sales.

    For my money … I’ve ridden and owned a fair share of small displacement scoots and I have not kept any of them for the simple reason that they were unsatisfying. The only interest they hold for me now is the nostalgic memories of people and places where I played on the little bikes.

  49. the other thing will be that these bikes will look great, but they will be built down to a price. Thats another thing an experienced rider will notice. Stuff like budget forks and shocks would be the biggest thing I would imagine, but maybe stuff like castings not finished too well, cheesy plastic or cheap thin paint or whatever.

  50. @ todd
    “I think the people who say that a 350 is too small have never ridden anything less than 883cc”.
    That says it all really….

  51. My favorite motorcycle off all time is the Suzuki Goose 350, a bike that never made it to the States. I had plans to buy a Hyosung GT250R. The most fun I ever had on a bike was on my ’89 GS500E. I’ve run the gamut, from old CB450’s and GT380’s to VF1000R’s, to a Radian 600, to a 9-second-quarter-mile Buell with a wheelie bar. People don’t realize they can’t (safely) use even a fraction of the capabilities of most modern motorcycles.
    Point being, I would be extremely excited to see this bike in American showrooms, but not many people would. Ours is a culture of excess, and while it would be a fantastic bike for America, the subtlety would be lost on us. Marketed properly, I think it could be a huge success, but I won’t hold my breath.

  52. Not too long ago I sold my Suzuki SG350 “Goose”. It was a 350cc single Cafe Racer-style bike that could reach 100mph (160km/hr), cruise at highway speeds and return approx 65 mpg (Imperial). It was also torquey and handled surprisingly well. I miss it although I always wished it was bigger!

    If Triumph made an EFI 350 single I would be interested.

    • Googled the Goose. Saw one in NZ for sale in a 2009 ad. Tube frame, nice suspension, modern looking. Thanks, I needed that. Like my old USA 1987 SRX250 but newer and better and larger. Looks like a dry sump motor with oil tank located down in front of crankcase. Odd but cool.

      The triumph won’t sell in great numbers in USA. I hugely admire Triumph mgt for even thinking of it though, shows the right spirit. If I owned such a company I would devote a measured dose of lost profits to casting pearls before swine.

      I would buy one, probably after two years, used, me being cheap, if they sell it here as a 350. 267cc is a bit light for what it looks like. So just drop in the bigger parts and jump past CBR250r.

      Wake up Yamaha and bring in sr400s. And SRV250 upsized to 535.
      .

  53. I still don’t see Triumph move away from it’s Triple and twin engines.
    Do they shoulder the cost of developing a new engine for a cheap bike with little profit margins? Or just take a Speed engine and cut two thirds off it? Or half a Bonnie?
    Or do they buy in a engine from Rotax or some similar manufacturer?
    Or contract it to a Chinese firm and keep control on the quality?
    I agree this fixation with high horsepower is silly as half the riders cannot ride bikes with so much power and where do you use it in real world road conditions? 180 mph on the roads here and you are going straight to jail or the cemetery.
    Out on the gnarly English twisties my 600 Hornet keeps getting held up by Sportsbikes. They turn the wick up a bit when they realize that what they consider a “girly” bike wants to overtake them. But even if they can get away it’s not for long.
    My Street Triple R is the most amazing fun and the most most beautiful looking bike. And that 675 Triple engine is one of the wonders of the world. I like naked bikes I like to see engines, not plastic.
    I went from a 1970’s CL450 to the Hornet in 1999. Now that 450 was a great engine as well.
    I cannot justify having another bike. But I do hanker over a single thumper. Saw one the other week a BSA Goldie 500 in a featherbed frame done as a stripped down trails bike – no lights/clocks etc. Beautiful.
    But I still don’t think Triumph will make one.

  54. A lot of great comments here. I think that should Triumph decide to pursue building the 350cc machine sketched out in this article, that it indeed would be beneficial to them in terms of building brand loyalty in the North American market.

    Much like Honda had done in the 1960s, a 350cc machine by Triumph today would be the icing on the cake in terms of gathering new riders to the marque, and with a line like they currently offer, continue to have these new riders progress through the ranks of Triumph product.

    Will it sell in the US? It’s always a dicey question, but honestly I think yes, because fuel prices are doubtful to come down any and the current economy is in rough shape, making it a more attractive bike in terms of financial ownership. Insurance and maintenance would be low, and if Triumph can keep the price at $5000USD or a bit less, while continuing to offer the same widely acclaimed build quality that they have come to be known for over the past 2 decades, the 350cc machine will be a sure bet to win.

    Many folks have commented on performance, and this is something that Triumph have always dialed into their bikes since their rebirth at Hinckley. The chassis are excellently engineered, often giving better handling than what you may expect, and the engines have long been the showcase of the brand. Triumph pushed to transition to fuel injection across their range, knowing that it was the way forward to comply with growing global emissions concerns, as well as deliver increased performance to the customer.

    Knowing Triumph, it would not surprise me to find out that this new 350cc will be sporting direct fuel injection, as a way to continue to evolve the technological side of the marque and to raise the bar in terms of competition with its Asian counterparts. A direct injected 350cc I would imagine offer the performance of a 500cc power plant, maybe even more. Placing this in a light weight chassis that offers incredible handling and the ability to be clothed in either modern or retro aesthetics would offer a double barrelled shot of fun from one of the greatest manufacturers of all time.

  55. Motociclismo is a joke.
    Half of the bikes that they say will be released, never even went to the head of the plant to go into production or even to import. Generate material on speculation and unsubstantiated deductions.
    Just for example. In 2007 published a story with the launch of 20 models for 2008 and of these only a single model was implemented five years later.

    • Even with my basic Portuguese I got the impression that there was a lot of speculation/hot air/waffle/bollocks with this site.

  56. Too late. KTM beat them too it.

    The 2012 KTM 350EXC is 50 state legal. FI, Water Cooled, Elactric Start goodness.

  57. My first ever motorcycle ride was on the back of a Yamaha 305 Big Bear behind another big guy. It was exciting. I later owned a Bridgestone 350 GTR which I rode from Okla. City to Chickasha (mixed 4 lane and 2 lane roads) every day at and above freeway speeds (separation being very important to survival). Before my buddy left for Vietnam and I was a svelte 200 lbs we went 105 two-up on an expressway at night ( cool air and slightly downhill) with no problem. I could take anything under 750cc up to about 70 and scare the hell out of the rest. I worked at a shop in Tulsa which sold Norton, Ducati and others but was never as impressed as by that GTR.

  58. Small is Sweet. I have a 250 WRX and a 750 “retro” Guzzi. People honestly think I am a mental patient to ride those instead of an R1 or some giant hog. I bought both my bikes on a huge (40%) discount because NO ONE buys a sensible bike like that. So maybe I am a bit mental?

    I’ve riden a liter bike and a hog and they are horrible city bikes and not much fun on the highway either. They are magnificent acheivments in engineering and marketing repectively but you can stuff that and the massive insurance cost thanks.

    • Here in Britain sports bikes and custom bikes really limit your riding to well surfaced major roads which are invariably very congested and frustrating. We have lots of great minor roads but they are pretty tight and rough. A supermoto or lightweight naked such as the Street Triple are ideal for country lanes and town streets. I don’t think people here in England would consider you odd at all for your choice of bikes and it seems obvious from a lot of comments here that people are changing their attitudes and enjoying riding lighter and less powerful machines. Small is indeed sweet. And I think the discounts will be on the R1’s soon!

      The new Guzzi V7s is a really pretty bike.

  59. The Ryca CS-1 built using the Suzuki S40 looks like the perfect bike to please all the people here looking for a cafe racer style single. Looks really cool and has a simple good looking engine which will no doubt be very economical. I know its bigger than some people think they need but you will love the torque and it isn’t going to weigh much more than a 350 anyway.

    http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2010/05/19/ryca-cs-1-suzuki-s40-cafe-conversion/

    http://www.rycamotors.com/

  60. I want the new Speed Triple. Not because I’m not well-endowed. Not because I’m incapable of slowing down and enjoying the ride. Not because I want to show off. Not because I think any of you are wrong. But because serious acceleration is what sets my mind free. Cognitive dissonance. Worth a wiki.

  61. I think that small displacement(500cc and 350cc) motorcycles are going to make a big comeback.
    Traditionally, the 500 and 350 were the most popular sizes of bikes.
    There is no real reason for that to not still be true today, besides the fact that we have been “marketed out of them”, by companies and magazines seeking to raise the prices of motorcycles by increasing size and complexity for 40 years.

    Now, the marketing game just doesn’t have enough punch to overcome the new economic conditions.
    The 500 and 350 are going to return to claim the crown jewels of motorcycling again. Nice little standard motorbikes that people can afford. Whoever gets out in front of that trend, will make alot of money.

    • The displacement race gets all the young guys hot about magazine specs and they never try anything a little smaller because it’s not manly enough to bother with.

      If you look at the later post here about the Morgan 3 Wheeler, look at that thing run with an S&S V-Twin, and it’s bigger and heavier than your average motorcycle by a long shot. That’s a motorcycle engine driving what’s really a little car, and there are a lot of those out there. A lot smaller engine could be a hoot in a light bike.

  62. After all of these coments not one person mentions the bike that is already available that answers the dilemmas.
    What it has sounded like is people here want a LIGHT weight bike but don’t want to sacrifice at least some usable POWER. So you either get a 35hp, 320lb bike or a 100hp, 420lb bike.
    KTM sells the bike already that answers everything that people here are asking for.
    690 Duke. 65hp and 327lbs. The 690 Duke R even has 71hp.

  63. I used to think the old saying, “It’s more fun to ride a slow motorcycle fast than it is to ride a fast motorcycle slow” was BS, until I discovered Suzuki’s TU250. Yeah, ok, I won’t be racing any squids out there, but what a blast! Even with my 200+ lbs on it, it handles great, it’s as easy as a bicycle to move around,and it’ll do 70 mph all day and still get 80 mpg!!

    Forget about who’s got the biggest… well, let’s this is a family publication, so let’s say, “ego,” and enjoy the simplicity and fun of a little bike!

  64. I hope (pray) Triumph makes a 350-500cc bike, BUT if they make it look like a “spacecraft” like the one pictured here, they miss the mark by many miles!

    The world is waiting for a classic small cafe racer with ALL the iconic gingerbread: clipons, CR tank and tank pad, rearsets, flyscreen, grill over the headlight, slotted exhaust covers, etc.

    If they offered it, Bloor would sell every unit, payment in advance, and there would be a waiting list for more.