The Kneeslider

Doers Builders and Positive People

SYMBA Honda Cub Replica by SYM Coming to USA

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SYM Symba Honda Cub replica

According to Steve from TheScooterScoop, SanYang Motors of Taiwan or SYM, is going to bring the SYMBA, a Honda Cub replica to the USA. SYM used to be part of Honda of Taiwan before it split, another part of that split became Kwang Yang Motor Co or KYMCO. The SYM scooter appears to be an exact a somewhat similar Honda Cub clone. No specs or price are available yet but if you’re familiar with the Cub, you’ll agree, this looks like the same machine.

This isn’t some company that just decided to replicate the Honda Cub, SYM made the Cub for Honda for 40 years so they probably have it figured out. I don’t know what arrangement they must have with Honda but I would think this is being done with Honda’s knowledge and permission.

I wasn’t familiar with SYM until I read Steve’s post, evidently it’s big overseas and they’ve been battling with KYMCO for the Asian scooter market and it also has some connections with Hyundai Korea for the manufacturing of cars in Taiwan. SYM is also connected with Bombardier Recreational Products and the Kinetic Motor Company in India. Its USA presence is small right now but growing.

For all of the many Honda Cub fans who miss this little machine from years gone by, you may get a chance to own one again, or for the first time, in the near future. I’ll be curious to see what kind of reception this receives over here.

Thanks to Steve from TheScooterScoop who left a couple of comments over here about this yesterday.

Link: TheScooterScoop
Link: SYM

Related: Honda Cub Special Site
Related: Honda Cub over 60 million produced

Comments

  1. It might be derived from a “real” Cub, but many the details look different (and decidedly cruder) than the C70 Passport last sold in the US 25 years ago.

    The bigger problem with third-party clones is that many parts are not interchangeable with the original, so for repairs you are dependent on, in this case, SYM’s parts pipeline. That is not the same as being able to go to any Honda dealer for parts. And it’s enough in itself to turn me off from owning one.

  2. I was thinking about the “not Honda” aspect of this. If a machine is like or almost like the original in every way except there’s no Honda badge and there’s no parts support from Honda, does the appeal dramatically decrease? That was why I said I am curious about its reception here. I’m not sure it will engender the same magic as a real Honda Cub but who knows? Price might play a big part, too. I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

  3. i think if they sell them in honda dealerships, and honda dealerships will do maintenance on them, they will sell very well.

    i think if they sell in little scooter shops they will still do ok, but not spectacular.

  4. SYM is a well established company with quality products. They currently manufacture ATV’s for Polaris and others that are sold in the US market. Over the past couple of years SYM has been busy establishing a dealer base in the USA to sell their products directly. I’m been looking at their CVT scooters but I think I’ll wait a bit.

  6. I talked to the SYM folks at the Dallas Motorcycle Show a few weeks ago about their Cub. They were chatty, knowlegable and enthusiastic. They told me the Symba is indeed on its way. It will have a one-piece, bench saddle instead of the split seat pictured.

    There’s a great hope that many of the parts will interchange with those on the C50/70 bikes, because support for the old bikes is now done – not at your local Honda dealer – HA! – but through a web of NOS garages and overseas parts houses.

  8. Also, here’s a quote pulled from http://www.kitaco.co.jp:
    Recently we have been receiving many inquiries asking if it is possible to install KITACO original parts on replica models. We actually know some people who put our original parts on replica models through the websites and magazines, but our current applications are only for the models listed on our catalog. So we hesitate to advise about the inquiries about the application of replica models.

    　We are not responsible for any complaints, damaged / broken products or accidents caused by installing our products on replica models.

  9. Nice little bike, it should be interesting to see how something straight out of the history books will fare in todays economy though. Parts availability or interchangeability could make or break the company just as easily as quality control, both things the Asian markets seem to have issues with here in the U.S.

    Could someone explain the Asian market’s fascination with the 110 and 125cc engine? Is there a ban on LARGER small displacement machines? They could have so much more of a market in many countries if they could fill the niche that the Japanese have forgotten. The 50-125cc scooter market is already saturated, even the 150-250cc market is full of more brands of scooters than I’d care to count. Why is it that almost every offering of a motorcycle is the 125cc class? If they can rip off the cb125, why not rip off something a bit bigger like the cb350 and create a bike that has been long forgotten?
    Being a big fan of the half-liter bikes and under, I would love to see and get my hands on a current production 350 or450 machine. The 250cc bikes on the market are considered beginners bikes in the U.S. but are competent capable machines, unfortunately the bikes are a bit small for me to fit on comfortably. I’m sure I speak for more than a few people when I say theres a market for half liter bikes in the U.S. and other countries.

  10. lostinoz, I lived in S. Korea for a year 10 years ago, and what I was told is that there is (or was) indeed heavy taxes on bikes larger than 125cc. You could get bigger bikes, but they were a lot harder to find, as well as being much more expensive. Where I lived there were a bunch of motorcycle dealerships too.

    I’m with you on manufacturers bringing in some nice small-middleweight bikes to the US. I really wish they would.

  11. This is what the comments were about regarding the chopper style bike Honda is apparently intending to build. Honda should be reintorducing this bike here, going back to the whole, “you meet the nicest people on a honda” campaign. I understand thgat with the tort liability laws being what they are here, and the fact that personal injury lawyers will be handing out cards to people as they leave the dealership, but I still think this is what they need to do rtight now.

  12. Is this too marginal a market for Honda to get into? Passports and their CT cousins seem to have a pretty dedicated following. Whenever they show up on Craigslist in Seattle, titled running bikes are rarely less than $1200 and usually closer to $2000.

    Pssst! Honda… bring that fuel injected Super Cub to the states.

  13. Could someone explain the Asian market’s fascination with the 110 and 125cc engine? Is there a ban on LARGER small displacement machines? They could have so much more of a market in many countries if they could fill the niche that the Japanese have forgotten.

    In Thailand bikes over 250cc are subject to a very large tax (Vietnam also has a tax like that, something like 90%). In addition, most traffic and roads work wonderfully well with bikes under 250cc; most are 100-135cc. They work very nicely. The 110cc water-cooled auto-trans Honda Airblade we’ve rented the last two years goes fast, goes far, has no problems, even with two up which is about a 300 lb load. These bikes also cost from $1500-2000 (Chinese bikes in Laos cost them about $500). The median family income in Bangkok (which is higher than the rest of the country) is about $500/month. Many people, like a cop for instance, make about $200/month (and cops have to pay for their own uniforms, guns, ammo, and motorcycle). Where do they come up with more than a couple grand? (Mind you, some people do have money, but regular folks do not.)

    I think the market the Japanese are missing is the potential small bike market in North America. The various CVT bikes they sell here (Honda Airblade, Yamaha Nouvo, Suzuki Hayate) are far more stable than scooters, powerful, reliable, easy to ride, and unavailable in NA. They’re leaving the market to the Chinese, who at present aren’t geting it right. But expecting them to always falter is foolish. The irony is that the Japanese are doing exactly what the Europeans did in the 50s and 60s which allowed the Japanese to enter and then dominate the NA market. And they’re doing it when they have appropriate bikes ready to go; they’re in a potentially far better position than the Europeans were in the 50s and 60s but are choosing to leave the market to the Chinese. I think this is really dumb, surprisingly dumb.

  14. The Passport 70 was the first bike I ever rode at the awkward age of 14. I was amazed when I rode one again nearly half my life later that the fond memories were still reality. Granted, it was no longer as fast, but I got a lot bigger and the Cub didn’t change.

    A Passport, or possibly even a Taiwanese Cub with a 125 would be a lot of fun.

  15. It would be downright silly and irresponsible for them not to use compatible Honda spec components. There’s such a glut of aftermarket “Honda” 50-70 (up to 125 water-cooled w/super charger) parts available.

    These little bikes are perfect around towners. My ’69 trail 90 would better 55mph, happily all day long, high 40’s with the sidecar…

    -todd

  16. The Symba is going to come with a 100cc engine. I’m not really sure how many part are going to be interchangeable, but there are obvious differences. A couple of them would be the Honda has a linked front suspensions whereas the SYM has telescoping. The transmissions are different, the lighting/handlebars are different and if you look closely, even the frames between the two are different.

  17. Come on guys, this bike for the 20 to 40 pound, on your back or rack short-haul load in the UNITED STATES rural areas is the best solution to efficiency and climate change. It will not work in NYC etc. but in 40% of places under 3000 in population this machine is GREAT. I’m not BS’ing, the U.S. as a GREAT NATION, in challenging times, can benefit from this bike as a Rebublic.It runs, it carries 100 pound loads, it gets great MPG. Come on guys, this is our chance to take Asian bike stuff and use it to make us as a Nation ECONOMICALLY stronger. May to October small towns can really benefit from these bikes. In winter we’ll use our RV’s for safety etc……..

  18. Henry is right about “small town America” A few of the smaller towns here in Illinois are issuing permits for golf carts, as long as they have the correct lighting and seat belts. Its nice for the older folks going to the coffee shops. I’m waiting for the first golf cart/electric scooter pile-up though. Better than setting them outside for the polar bears to eat, I guess!! hahaha

  19. I would love to see Honda bring back teh Hondamatics. My wife has a CM400A, and its a great bike, you just cant stop it. A small update to the transmission would solve teh top speed issue and these things could roam around all over. I take it out for rides through the country all the time, what a nice, light fun bike.

  20. At a glance:

    I may be too critical about retro repro designs and details. It has a similar look of the C100 but is not even close, in my opinion. Personally I like the looks of the original Honda C100 as is. The non-telescopic forks, separate gas tank/seat arrangement, shaped handlebar assembly, etc. Oh yeh…And real geared transmission. All the early design features that make it original and give it a unique character and absent.

    Also, this repro looks to have no clutch lever. So a wimpy CVT instead of real gears, shift and clutch? Not for this cyclist.

    One point I do like is that that the newer technology with EFI probably makes for a more economical, environmental friendly powerplant. Whether or not it will be as durable, reliable and have the longevity of the original……..time will tell.

    One question is why just a 50cc bike? Why not a little more power, say a 100 or 150cc engine? That would seem more conducive to riding style and traffic commuting in the United States. You really need to be able to accelerate to speed quickly in order to keep up with traffic flow here.

    In the end, it is not a Honda Cub 50, and bears only a slight resemblance to the original. Thanks but I’d rather get another original old used Honda 50!

    This bike (moped really) may have more appeal to younger nub’s, not old enough to be acquainted with or appreciate the original design.

    Nice try SYM, but no cigar!

  21. That’s why I think they should bring it those 110-135cc CVT bikes. They’re very stable (not scooter-like), very easy to drive, super good on fuel, great brakes (front disc) and plenty comfortable enough except that they should have more padding in the seats. We recently went up to the Burmese border and back, through some steep hills/small mountains; did the return (170 mile) trip in an afternoon, on an AirBlade, the 110cc CVT Honda, riding two-up, and we brought along some cushions we’d bought which gave us an extra 2″ of padding. No problems at all, in fact it was more comfy than the 600cc V-Twin Honda we’d rented for the purpose last year.

    These bikes cost less than $2,000 in SE Asia; even if they added a big premium in NA they could be less than $3,000. Under seat storage (big enough to stick a helmet in unless it’s a full face dealie).

  22. Could someone explain the Asian market’s fascination with the 110 and 125cc engine? Is there a ban on LARGER small displacement machines?

    I just wanted to add a little cause I realised I didn’t get all I should have said down about this. First, as I said before, it’s a lot about money. Many people, most really, in SE Asia don’t have loads of money, and there’s a huge jump between a $500 used Honda Dream or a new $1500 125cc Wave or $1900 for a new AirBlade, and then when you get to the bigger small bikes it’s another $1,000 or more and that’s a huge number for people making a few hundred dollars a month.

    There are some of those bigger small bikes here in Thailand, the most popular of which are the Honda CBR150, which is a fantastic sport bike, with performance almost exactly that of the last RD400s, and the Honda Phantom, a 200cc cruiser. But it’s a big money jump unto one of those bikes. Most riding is relatively low speed and around towns. We travel two up on an AirBlade and keep up with any traffic, usually going between 40-70 km/h, up to 80-90 km/h outside of town, and there’s a lot of weaving in and out of traffic. Outside of town a car will beat you; inside of town nothing will.

    Just today we were going around the moat here and a Harley (they have a big bike meeting in town) was trying to make time, honking its horn (not a lot of horn honking here in Thailand) and weaving through traffic as best he could. We were going a bit slower than our usual speed because my girlfriend was refusing to wear her helmet, and in several miles the Harley managed to get about 20 yards ahead of us and the rest of the riders around him (some outran him). The Harley rider wasn’t doing badly, really, it’s just that the smaller bikes are plenty fast enough and maneuverable as all get out.

    So the answer is A) the average rider in SE Asia doesn’t need the extra power and size, B) they don’t want the poorer maneuverability of most of the bigger bikes, C) they can’t afford them.

    BTW, one thing people ride around here is the Kawasaki mini bike, the KSR110. They ride them on the street, actually it’s one of the few Kawasakis around (Kawa doesn’t have the presence of even Suzuki here, Suzuki doesn’t have the presence of Yamaha, and Honda looks like it has about 90% of the market). Here’s a pic of one; it’s a bad-ass mini bike.

  23. Webscrounger:

    On Sym’s Taiwan website they show the Magic 110, which is a Cub based bike. It’s got a 4 speed gearbox. I’m guessing it’s probably much like the C70 Passport my little brother had when we were young. It had no clutch lever, because it did not have a manual clutch. Shifting, however, was still mandatory. The SYMBA likely has gears and a centrifugal clutch. I’m pretty familiar with modern scooters and the engine in the SYMBA doesn’t appear to have a CVT attached.

    I would love for Honda to bring the original here, as a 125. However, that is not very likely. I once read that Honda’s North American motorcycle division sold fewer units than any other region, but was by far the most profitable. The explanation was they are selling a number of high dollar, high margin machines. As opposed to in Asia where they sell millions of bikes, but at much lower prices and with tighter profit margins.

    QrazyQat:

    That mini bike is bad-ass indeed. Looks like fun.

    The picture you paint of riding in SE Asia demonstrates how different American motorcycle showrooms might look if riding 2 wheels were a serious mode of transport for many people rather than a hobby for a relative minority.

  24. I would love for Honda to bring the original here, as a 125. However, that is not very likely. I once read that Honda’s North American motorcycle division sold fewer units than any other region, but was by far the most profitable. The explanation was they are selling a number of high dollar, high margin machines. As opposed to in Asia where they sell millions of bikes, but at much lower prices and with tighter profit margins.

    I dopn’t see why they couldn’t have it both ways. I’ve been looking around at small bikes in Europe and I see that Honda sells a 125cc bike similar to the AirBlade there for the equivalent of $3500-4000 (when they’re $1900 here in Thailand). I think they could do that in North America too, although I’d prefer they didn’t put that big a premium on it. That means, let’s say, an extra $1000 in costs to sell them in NA (I doubt the diff would actually be that high). This means they’d be looking at a $500-1000 of pure extra profit, for no doubt 10s of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of bikes.

    They already do something like that in Canada, where they sell a CBR125 I’ve mentioned before. It sells for far more than a CBR150 does in Thailand, and the 150 is a much fancier bike (bigger and better everything, aluminum frame and the like); the CBR125 looks to be a Honda Sonic with a fairing. This is a whole lot of extra profit.

  25. Note my comments suggest they bring in their newer bikes, modern bikes which already are likely to meet any standards that NA wants from small bikes.

  26. webscrounger Says:
    “Also, this repro looks to have no clutch lever. So a wimpy CVT instead of real gears, shift and clutch?”

    The SYMBA is is a clutchless shifter, just like the CUB.

    These bikes are similar but still not the same. I look forward to a Cub styled scooter available in the USA, especially if it’s from Japan or Taiwan. No more Chinese Cub clones please.

  27. Those old step-thru’s had great economy and toughness but dangerous front forks and brakes – Honda make a modern version of their step-thru in 100cc and 125cc sizes that is also tough and economical BUT has proper front forks and decent brakes (disc front in some models) as well as looking much more modern. Their best one is made in Thailand for local and export use, the 125cc Wave. They also have a fuel injected model. Local Thai emission laws are actually amongst the toughest in the world, so there is no reason why they can’t be exported to the USA in huge numbers for around 1800 dollars a pop (local price is less than 1200 dollars inc VAT)

  28. My mechanic has this to say about the SYM experience…

    “I saw this machine last Feb at the dealer expo in Indy. That one was powder blue with floral pattern. Nice looking little machine, just wondered why they couldn’t have put a simple disc brake on the front. Would have made for a much more capable machine and certainly wouldn’t have added to much more to the cost. Ok it may not look as period” with a discs brake, but it would be nice..
    The other issue I Had with SYM is they don’t provide any tech support. None! I’ve got a 2007 sym scooter here in the shop. Not 250 miles on it and some mysterious electrical issue keeping it from running. Not so much as a spin of the starter or spark of the plug. Nothing. Traced every wire, checked every switch, everything seems to be in place. Contacted sym a dozen times and not once did I get a response. Sad!”

    The builders in the Orient can create anything they want, but it’s still buyer beware once you write the check. Solid dealer networks with real support usually don’t hurt you too much!

    Randy

  29. Local Thai emission laws are actually amongst the toughest in the world, so there is no reason why they can’t be exported to the USA in huge numbers for around 1800 dollars a pop (local price is less than 1200 dollars inc VAT)

    Direct compariosn of USA and Thai prices: We were in Carrefour today (in Thailand) and there was a Yamaha display with Yamaha Finos, which are sold in the USA as Yamaha Vinos (why the change? who knows). The Thai 125cc bikes went for 43,000-45,000 baht for base models, which is about US$1,226-1,283. In the USA they sell for $2,899. You can’t tell me that’s all required money, an awful lot of it must be extra profit, which means they could make plenty selling other small bikes (Fino/Vinos are a bit too scootery for my tastes, a bit smallish of wheel). So the above-mentioned Honda Waves, or AirBlades, or Sonics, or Yamaha 135cc Nouvos (TB 57,250 list=US$1632) would be marketable with probably an extra $1600 tacked on to the price; there’s gotta be a few bucks in selling several hundred thousand of those at that markup.

    Why they aren’t doing it beats me.

  30. BTW, I notice the Vino has smaller wheels than the Fino, I suppose to make it look more retro-Vespa-like. It would be much better as the Thai-style Fino. The other bikes mentioned even better.

  31. We carry the SYM line and to tell you the truth, our mechanic cannot recommend them ENOUGH!

    “The fit and finish is top notch. Engineering is outstanding. Set up is a breeze. I almost never see one back in the shop except for scheduled maintenance work. Any issues we’ve had have been resolved VERY quickly.

    The only problem I had was needing to hire another mechanic this last Summer to help prep all the sold bikes!”

  32. Sure, I’d much rather have an original – but Moto Guzzi has shown no interest in importing new Gallettos to the USA!

  33. webscrounger and other naysayers-
    . . . don’t forget to look up the diverse history of SYM as a company and it’s long partnership with Honda. The Passports and Cubs (rated as #1 motorcycle of all time, by Discovery Channel Documentary) were only really produced fully by Honda for a few years, then contracted SYM to make the engines (“Engine Of Life” slogan for SYM). Huh, say what? Honda, whose entire reputation for reliability has had engines made by SYM for almost the entire model duration of the Cub/Passport? That alone says something about SYM. Just ask anyone in Taiwan, a country of people who know their 2 wheelers better than even the Europeans. Sym is tops even over Kymco in Taiwan.

    A scooter that I’ve thought about buying–the SYM HD 125cc–compares more with the Kymco People 250S than it does with the 125S in every regard, top speed, performance, etc. A 125 that competes with a 250 from Kymco?? The technology: 4 valve, ceramic coated cylinder, liquid cooled, same paint as Mercedes-Benz, and premium headlight bulbs (55/60W!!! on a scooter!). All of which don’t exist on the Kymco People 125/200. I have full confidence in SYM.

    I think that the SYMBA will appeal to the retro-grouch types and mybe even just some looking for and economical way to commute in the city. Really, we need more of these types of vehicle choices in the US. Every scooter shop in Minneapolis was selling faster than they could get ’em last summer. I only wish the SYMBA would come with the original 4 speed cyclical/rotary tranny (N-1-2-3-4-N. . .), great for stoplight to stoplight city stuff for what it was designed. The laws in the US won’t allow it, however (riding down the road, forget it’s in 4th, shift up again, now you’re in N, oh sh*t! Shift up again, now you’re in 1st while going 50mph, OH SH*T!!).

    I even found a video on youtube of a bunch of English guys riding through the French Pyrenees, fully loaded with gear, and the bike pilot couldn’t stop giggling, racing his friends up and down those mountains. Very capable machines, ahead of their time.

    That Sachs Madass 125 with a 160cc bolt on kit looks tempting, though. . .

  34. I will be adding Carter/Sym to my shop because of the Symba…the Cub design will surely be a hit in the USA and I do not want to miss the buying frenzy

  35. The sym symba has been very long in the making. For the last two years sym has been discussing bringing the sym wowow (as it is called in Taiwan) into the usa. The symba is actually an improved version of the honda cub. Amongst other things it comes with a telescopic fork. sym’s quality and reliability is amazing. scooterstation has been selling sym scooters for almost three years now with almost no warranty issues what so ever !
    As far as the sym symba “only being a clone” goes, that is not quite so: SYM has been manufacturing for honda since the late 1950’s ! they have a long history of actually engineering and developing engines for honda products. They have long made the sym wowow their own and in terms of quality it’s easily comparable.
    we are expecting the sym symba in our store by mid april of 2009. Feel free to come visit us in the shop or on our website… ther is a lot of informtion about sym on our site.

  36. So with all the ramblings on this Symba, does anyone REALLY know of the seat configuration to be expected in the USA?

    Will it be that nasty “chinese” looking 2 pc for miniture people, or the banana seat of the original C70? All the preliminary pics show the 2 pc crap, but one poster here said he heard at the Dallas show they are importing the banana seat version. Anyone REALLY know for sure?

  39. That Wolf Classic is fantastic! If I didn’t already have my little Honda, I would certainly be interested in that, or Suzuki’s TU250 (though the Wolf looks way sportier).

  40. I love it. So what if it’s not identical to my ’83 C70 Passport. Who cares. Do all ’60’s Mustangs look identical? Didn’t think so. I’d buy a SYM any day.

  42. I recently purchased a Symba. I am pleased to share how such comfort and functionality is in such a compact (low ccs) bike. If there were more of a campaign in US cities to “stop by and give it a spin,” more Americans would be opting from the heavy metal vehicles they currently drive to the “sexy but fun” bikes. I enjoy the stability of this scooter and the price was great. To another’s point, I hope that SYM has secured appropriate parts fulfillment in order to void any bad and unnecessary publicity.