Are you willing to pay more (assuming you have the cash) for high quality (premium) parts and pieces that substantially boost performance and handling of a new motorcycle even if no one else notices the difference? If it makes the ride better, handling surer, acceleration quicker and increases durability but leaves no outward sign, is it worth it? How about a premium version of a more common model, again, very little outward difference?
Seth Godin brings up a distinction between luxury and premium goods and I thought it was worth exploring, particularly now when companies are struggling to find customers. Godin describes the difference this way:
Luxury goods are needlessly expensive. By needlessly, I mean that the price is not related to performance. The price is related to scarcity, brand and storytelling. Luxury goods are organized waste. They say, “I can afford to spend money without regard for intrinsic value.” …
Premium goods, on the other hand, are expensive variants of commodity goods. Pay more, get more.
What’s a luxury motorcycle? I think you know, you can probably name quite a few right off the top of your head, but are all high priced motorcycles “needlessly expensive,” to use Godin’s phrase? Some motorcycles are priced at $50,000, $75,000 or more but I would argue, some may very well be worth every penny, others, not so much.
Many custom chopper builders took the luxury route, famous builder, flashy design and often, not very functional as a motorcycle but very high priced. You buy the image and it’s on display even when parked. It’s the equivalent of designer clothing and it’s easily faked, just like a cheap “designer” watch. It also seems to fade fast in a tight economy as everyone starts looking for value. A particular builder can go out of business and over time fewer are familiar with the surrounding image and hype that attracted buyers to the brand in the first place and the bikes fall in value. Not good.
Low volume motorcycle companies of all types have to be careful, it’s easy start as a premium builder but drift into the luxury segment and lose focus, when real premium quality is a better bet. If a company builds a motorcycle with the intention of building something really special, … the best components, high quality construction, excellent design, … they have a great chance of capturing the knowledgeable buyer looking for that premium motorcycle that delivers on the promise. Even if the company eventually folds, the bikes continue to carry forward in the used market, staying in demand because enthusiasts recognize the quality. If demand and residual value are likely to remain high, a buyer sees the odds in his favor and might be more likely to take a chance on this new bike which, oddly enough, raises the chances of the company staying in business in the first place.
The major manufacturers are in a tough spot, they have to sell in high volume to stay in business which necessitates lower price points. How can they step up to really premium component and build quality without losing most of their customers? The majors are almost required to produce commodity motorcycles. Lots of critics complain about what is offered but fail to see the dilemma the big companies are in, especially when those same critics think the standard new bike is too expensive to begin with, let alone the high end performer.
This current business environment can be brutal on the luxury segment, but I think the real premium market has the opportunity to do well. Any company in the premium market must be very clear about who their customer is, what they are building and it must be made very clear in their marketing. A distinctive image may be part of the package, but buyers have to know it’s more than that. If their price is on the high side and their marketing is a little muddy, buyers will see just another image brand and the company will die.
Where do you stand? Assuming sufficient funds to make the choice, do you look for the premium bike that will stand the test of time even if very few will know what you’re riding, the luxury motorcycle that everyone will recognize, or the commodity motorcycle that performs well enough?
verbal says
I’ve definitely paid extra to improve performance in non-visible ways– I had an SV650 and got better springs and fork oil put into the front shocks. No visible change, but the handling was a lot better afterwards.
Then again, I’m probably not your typical consumer: When I bought the bike (used) it came with a Yoshimura slip-on. It may have increased performance (and definitely weighed more than the stock pipe) but I hated how loud and flashy it was, so I traded it to someone for a stock muffler.
The Ogre says
Ducati already does this with a bunch of their models, with the “S” option. Granted, it is visible – both in the badging on the bike and the different color of the suspension bits. In my opinion, opting for the S option on my Multistrada was very much worth it.
lostinoz says
Personally, when it comes to motorcycles I prefer to buy things that:
(a) I’ll never have to replace in the lifetime of the motorcycle
(b) Will improve the handling immensely
(c) Will improve the performance of the bike
While I don’t particularly care about the “looks” of a bike, if the things I upgrade give it an enhanced look, great, if not, so be it.
I had seen on a TV show where a guy wanted to put a old model charger body on a new model charger frame and running gear. That was a great idea, but Ill go one step further: Give me the Volkswagen bug in looks, give it the handling and power of a Ferrari, and the reliability of a tank.
I personally dont care WHAT you see when you look at it as its parked, I care about WHEN you dont see me on the road and I can avoid the accident due to superior handling, braking, torque, and horsepower. If it was proven that the worlds ugliest bike was the BEST QUALITY performance machine ever created, and that its limited production would NEVER be recognized, AND that its going to be “a tad bit higher” cost than anyone could imagine for said ugly bike, assuming money is no object I would be buying two.
Quality over quantity,performance over perception. Any thing less and I’ll leave that for those that ride on sunny sunday afternoons in june to the nearest bar.
pbxorcist says
Actually I disagree with your statement about custom choppers. Most high end custom bikes (Vtwin) are build with fairly high end component. Using components like S&S or TP engines and Baker transmissions add up quickly. Its not uncommon for those bikes to have over 10k in the drive train alone.
The problem is the cheap custom bikes (the ones in the 10-15k range). They get the price down that low buy using cheaply sourced components that arent exactly known for the manufacturing quality or durability.
What really drives the cost up on custom bikes is the labor that comes from fabricating custom parts, and most builders end up taking a bath on that. If they charged full time for how long it took them, the bikes wouldnt be affordable at all.
John says
I would pay a premium for a motorcycle if fit and finish were better, performance enhancements and extended warranties were in place. Maybe even for a better customer experience like a loaner bike when bringing in for service. Ducati Triumph,and BMW seem to fall into the premium category. Their bikes sell for slightly more but not ridiculously so. They offer something different as well. H-D is closer to the luxuery side. A buyer is a little more enamored with the whole lifestyle aspect. The bikes themselves do have good fit, finish, warranty and the dealerships are usually impressive. I always shake my head when looking for classifieds and seeing a 10 H-D trying to sell for at or 500 less than original MSRP. With the big 4 there is great value for money especially in the performance market. Fit and finish sometimes is lacking in the cruiser mrkt. warranties are shorter. resale not as high and customer experience could be better.
Tin Man 2 says
Does any one make a poor quality bike any more? Aside from the China made Honda Knockoffs. In this market no junk will survive the market, bad news travels fast. Ducati and BMW are probably the only high end performance bikes that turn a profit, But BMW is now starting to sell down the brand and compete in the high volume market, Docati has always kept a low cost Monster in the lineup to hold up sales volume. HD is in a league of its own, Top quality fit and finish, great chrome, premium sound systems and controls, A high End Expierence not based on high performance, but on a realistic premium cruising experience. ( High performance Chrome? ) How about the New Indian, Truly a High End bike with premium content. If all we wanted was a ride, We would all have a UJM !!
B*A*M*F says
Quality is up, but so are expectations. Not just from buyers, but from regulatory bodies as well.
I’m typically willing to pay a little more for something more durable, better performing, and easier to take care of. The price gap does make a difference, but usually, I come down on the side of having something I like for a very long time, and I hope that the value equation works out in my favor.
todd says
I wouldn’t pay more for more performance. Actually I would like to be able to pay less for less performance if that option was available. I have never been in a situation where my skills can out-perform stock components. It’s just silly to think that I would go around turns faster just because I had gold colored suspension components. I’m no faster on a 1000 than I am on a 600.
Speaking of gold colored suspension products, Ohlins probably wouldn’t sell too well if they looked just like the stock parts they replace. Most people are pretty vain; a red Ducati looks pretty dang awesome with gold suspension. Who cares if the person riding the bike could never maximize the potential of a stock EX500.
Now when I consider paying extra for QUALITY that’s another matter. It doesn’t take much riding skill to notice bad paint, rusting chrome, and flimsy plastic – but then, there’s not much of that going around now-a-days.
Too bad some companies are selling the PERCEPTION of quality and banking on their reputation. I don’t think modern BMWs have the sort of quality or durability that the older air cooled bikes had. Put two side by side and it’s easy to see the difference. BMWs have the name and the reputation and I understand it costs a lot to build one (due, no doubt, to all the extra gimmickery) but they are no longer two or three times better than other bikes as their price would suggest.
-todd
Slash says
I’ll take quality over looks any day of the week. As long as those pricier parts are what’s keeping me on the road instead of in the shop. There are a lot of riders out there who are too focused on what kind of lifestyle people think they have based on what kind of bike they ride; i.e.: “What kind of person do I want people to think I am? Harley or Gixxer,? Hypermoto or Bobber?” I say, who cares what other people think? Does it really matter to you if you can convince a nose-standing ricer that an XS650 can be just as much fun? To answer the original question though, I’d absolutely pay more – besides, that way I get to tell you about how cool it is even when you can’t see it.
dan says
The big 4 are the greatest value in most cases however the so called higher end brands deliver on bikes people identify with like the Supermoto with upgraded bits for 20 grand. Why can’t the big 4 build the same bike in an inline 4? They proved they can build a nice chopper, with a smallish engine and plastic bits. Can’t have everything. What’s the perfect price/value maybe a Triumph Sport Triple, the one based on the 675 Daytona. If I was a better wrench, a bobber style from a good used ebay bike. Those 2 bikes would give you the best of both worlds and but not break the bank!
zipidachimp says
honda/acura, nissan/infiniti, toyota/lexus. wouldn’t be a big surprise if it happened in bikes. what would truly be a surprise would be if they actually made bikes people wanted. kawi is still the only major brand with 500cc sport and cruiser bikes.
what I want? sv/vstrom 650 in a cruiser frame. I got arthritis, the M50 is a bloated joke!
kim says
I’ll make the argument that any motorcycle not bought mainly to be used as a working tool – police bikes, Rossi’s race bikes, courier bikes, ride-to-work-while-saving-gas bikes etc. – is a luxury item, only some of them more so than others. While we can discuss from now until eternity to what extent riding a bike is a therapeutical experience – thus also making it ‘practical’ in some sense of the word – we buy the motorcycles to make us feel good. Standing in the showrooom with you wife at the side, the sales rep will look at you while talking horsepower and acceleration, but look at her talking fuel economy and resale price, but in the end we buy the bikes we can afford for the way they look and feel, and possibly because of the image. Not because we bloody ‘need’ them.
Best bike I ever had was a cheap 150 cc two-stroke East German MZ, the ultimate two-wheeled tool (by modern standards just a glorified 10 bhp moped), but it made me love two-wheeled freedom. Had dozens more bikes after that one was stolen, many of them the best bikes ever I had too. Even the ironhead XLX – a rolling disaster as far as reliability was concerned – was my best bike ever, although at app. 30 times the price of the MZ, I won’t claim it was a 30 times better bike.
I didn’t ‘need’ any of them, and I don’t ‘need’ the 5 relatively inexpensive bikes currently in my possesion, the youngest of which is from 1969 (an MZ250ES outfit – try googling it). So they’re my luxury items.
Given the choice, I’d spend my money first on practical upgrades, then on appearance. Make that a 75/25 % ratio. Tyres first, suspension next, then whatever will make it more practical in everyday life. Like a handlebar fairing or a tank bag, if I didn’t already have a lot of those already. That taken care of, I’d tart the bike up with a nice paint job or chrome bits.
Schneegz says
Yes, I’m willing to pay more for higher quality stuff, but there’s a limit to how much I’ll pay. There’s no way I’d buy a Ducati 1198, for example, but I’m more than willing to pay $12000 for a bike with good adjustable suspension as opposed to $8000 for the same bike with non-adjustable suspension.
steve says
I buy a commodity bike like an current HD and then throw what I don’t like away and replace it with quality parts from S&S and others. But it wouldn’t be just that bike. It could be anything on a showroom floor. I don’t and have never liked showroom bikes so I change every bike I have ever owned to suit me. I can do that and have on over 70 motorcycles I have owned. A high end bike or dealer options will never be for me as they have no idea what i want. Even my current Streetracker T120 Bonniville shows the trend. Why not restore it? Oh no, never liked the stock look! For marketing, sure a high end bike or quality can work just not for me. Having read Kneeslider for some time I too know most everyone is into buying what the think they like so surely it must work but high end or Quality first with a price tag will always be low volumn and you can’t make as much on the bottom line.
Phoenix827 says
I work in a manufacturing facility. I see every day the problem for a manufacturer. We need to cut cost without sacrificing quality. I personaly would love to buy a high quality motorcycle. I am unable to because the economy is just too tight. I will continue to ride my 30 year old cm400a. Its cheap on gas, fun, and reliable. I see many new bikes that are well made and look great. If I get to the point I can buy, it will be the best quality I can afford.
OMMAG says
Some dealers do this all the time.
Back in the mid ’70s a good friend of mine had a booming business with installing performance parts in Honda fours. He’d build bikes using the parts available on the market and some with custom bits he’d make in the shop then use these as marketing tools. By cleaning up at drag races and embarrassing everyone at street gatherings he made a real name for himself. Customers with the bank roll to pay anywhere from 50% to 500% of a stock bike became second tier marketing reps just by riding the machines. The dealer would even assist in financing by partnering up with a financing company.
The customers would order the bike and the mod options up front and then the bike would be pulled from it’s crate and given the once over by the shop’s experts.
Another good example of a dealer shop / builder is fast by Ferracci.
So could a manufacturer do the same thing? Not on their own because of the overhead associated with special parts … things like inventory and specialized processes in the plant.
Like Mercedes with AMG … partner up with a third party specialist builder and it’s a snap.
petep says
Nope, not me. My skills cannot approach the limits of most of the bikes on the street and trail right now. My best performance mod is to get the most out of me, not the bike.
As far as quality, I haven’t bought a new bike in 29 years. My best dirt bike is 9 years old, and I have yet to open the engine, or replace a major component. My street bikes just keep on ticking. Better quality? Are you sure you’re just not asking for more bling?
True performance mods I’d like to see:
Longer lasting dirt tires.
Better economy.
More legroom on sportbikes. (old man knees)
Cruisers with “normal” seating positions. (more dirtbike like).
Gawd Damn. Do I sound old, or what?
todd says
petep, you sound very reasonable. Not too long ago I was with a group of riders doing our best to keep up with… a Ninja 250. That bike doesn’t have much power but when physics keep anything from going around some corners more than 50 mph you don’t need power. It has simple brakes – don’t really need them if you don’t plan on stopping or slowing down. It has non-adjustable, simple suspension (pretty much). It’s carbureted and had a stock pipe. What it did have is something you can’t buy at the local powersports shop no matter how much you could afford to spend: a good rider.
It’s funny, some of the conversation from the slower people after the ride was about upgrading to a “faster” bike. As if it was the GSXR750’s fault it couldn’t keep up with the little 250.
-todd
Kenny says
I disagree with the comment that better parts and components or even bike’s wont improve your performance.
My first bike was a 1979 XL185S, an old Honda dualsporter, not in the greatest shape, the bushings were so worn that the rear wheel had about an inch of lateral play, but I haven’t ever encoutered a situation on that bike that it could not handle.
I eventully upgraded to a ’91 XR200R, not the bleeding edge of technology, but it was a substantial improvement over the XL, everything was smoother, easier, and faster. And it wasn’t just the 12 odd years of development, I also rode a 80 XR185 the proper off-road version of my first bike and found that there was a similar difference, not as large but still an improvement over the base model. And I still haven’t found the limits of my bike.
Grant says
I refuse to be categorized! I am admittedly frugal, and look for the best value for my dollar, but I am just shallow enough for looks to make a difference, and care enough about performance to make modifications that have no outward signature. But looks are spectacularly subjective, and the parts of the “performace pie” that I care about may not be the parts someone else cares about. (I rate handling and brakes over top speed, for example.)
If you must have numbers, put me down for 50 pecent commodity, 40 percent premium, 10 percent luxury/looks.
Jim says
I’m on board with Todd and petep, I wouldn’t pay a dime extra for go fast sh__. But performance can be defined in another way and I will pay a premium for longer wearing tires and chains, greater service intervals, better gas mileage, lighter weight and fit and finish.
George says
I have owned Moto Guzzi, Ducati, Honda, Suzuki, Moto Morini, Yamaha, BMW R69S, R100, K100 and K1100 over the last 35 years. There are premium motorcycles available like Bimota, the Ducati V4 and Patrick Godet’s Egli Vincents to name a few and I expect I will pay for to enjoy that premium. But I confess, my all time favourite motorcycle is the Bultaco Metrella. It was a single cylinder two stroke with barely legal lights and the essence of simple functionality. Perhaps I should chase down the TSS people for a two stroke twin.
Azzy says
I will pay a bit more for something that makes my back happy, and my rear happy as well. If it can keep my pocketbook happy (and my wife happy, ie, safe) then all the better.
Nicolas says
I’d pay less for premium … not an option ?
The problem in the axiom/question ” Will You Pay More for Quality if Only You Know the Difference? ” is the “if you know the difference” part. Just as a few other folks here, I’m humble enough to recognize that I’m not a good rider enough to appreciate the difference between a gold serie ohlins and a std shock on a ducati, the stock ducati’s potential is way beyond my limits, I think … And most of the punk I see around and ride with are good not either, whatever they pretend.
Now about the “adjustable suspensions”, how many of us are really masterizing the art of tuning up a suspension, how many really got improvement in handling and how many ended up making their ride more dangerous, just for the fun of messing up some stuff because that’s what they do in motoGP or Superbike ?
I’m willing to pay more for a Honda, because my son and maybe his son will still be able to crank it up when they are old enough to do so.
Walt says
“The major manufacturers are in a tough spot, they have to sell in high volume to stay in business which necessitates lower price points.”
On the contrary, the volume of the bigs enables them to cut the unit cost by running more bikes through the manufacturing facility, spreading the design and engineering investment over more units and so on. They can (don’t always achieve it) produce a quality product for a reasonable price.
Those looking to sell exclusivity or cachet may find an outrageous price helps them create that luxury or high-performance image. “If it costs that much, it must be good!”
Great topic, Paul!!
Walt says
Here’s another reply: I spent less than $150 putting a pair of Hayabusa three-pot calipers on my Triumph 955 Sprint. They are considerably more aggressive in braking than the original (not bad) units. They are gold in color. The originals were black. I could care less if anybody sees it but me. Stopping is good. Running into stuff is bad.
todd says
Wow, I have drum brakes on my BMW and they work fantastically well. I’ve never had to worry about running into anything. I don’t think the topic is about replacing worn out components like sloppy swing arm bushings either.
If vanity didn’t play a part in deciding performance and quality everyone would own a Hyabusa. That bike pretty much has the starting place for the most performance possible and is right near the top for quality. Vanity is what makes people buy something that looks good even if it has lower performance / quality. I believe some things are more than adequate even though there are somethings given up. I ride cafe racer bikes. I don’t have clip-on bars and a hump-back seat because it improves the performance or makes the bike last longer. I didn’t fit a smaller rear fender because it made the bike handle better. I did it to make the bike different and, while I was at it, pay a little homage to the history of racing.
I think there is quality in the experience and sometimes you can even pay less for that quality. Take Royal Enfield for example.
-todd
clone5 says
I’d buy a Ghezzi Brian if I could actually find one to buy!
That would be only my 3rd bike in 20 years of riding.
Doug McDaniel says
It depends on what the upgraded areas are. When I buy a bike, I pretty much research everything about it. The weak points I address with aftermarket (supposedly better) parts pretty much for reliability, but sometimes for performance. If there was an upgraded version of a bike, I would lean toward buying that instead of what I normally do (DIY).
tim says
I DID!
My latest streetbike (Triumph Scrambler 900) I loved the look of the thing, but it needed some tweaking from stock. So it got Ohlins shocks, a fork rebuild with cartridge emulators, I changed the handlebars, added some other bits and pieces (oil cooler guard, longer seat bolts, a pillion backrest and rack). It has made the thing more what I want. Next on the list: fit my new pipes (that is primarily an aural/visual upgrade): but unless you know what you are looking at and for, my bike appears near stock.
I would like the floating disc from a Thruxton but dont want to buy new. Or one of those Beringer motard setups…..
dan says
My favorite bike was a KZ1000 bored out to 1100cc, flowed heads and a kerker which I painted flat black but the megaphone was chrome. Then I put a fork brace better spings and fluid in them. Then rear got Progressive lowered slightly. I got the widest tire possible on back a duel tread Bridgestone. Painted it dark green with ghost flake. That thing was so solid I could ride it from Wisconsin to Ohio with 1 hand and dust any car on the road except this one Mustang must have been blown! People gave it respect at any event or outside any shady bar! Go figure!
My next keeper after a few failed attempts at trying new styles was a Suzuki RF900 but it was built for endurance racing but never raced, likely cause it had a steel frame and was a little heavy. It had Kelein carbs, bored to 1000 with a cam, a Yosh pipe and Fox shock with GXR front end, not to mention upgraded brain box and PM Wheels. I paid $4500 and was the first bidder on ebay it had 300 miles on it. I rode that thing all over New Mexico and had a blast and never opened it up but dusted anything in my path. After meticulously maintaining it for 4 years I sold it to an unsuspecting hispanic kid from Espanola for $3400 cash with 5200 miles on it. I gave him my helmet and jacket and told him to be careful! That bike was absolutely perfect for that era in my life!
Bjorn says
No question, I will pay a premiun any time for quality and I don’t care if you know it’s there. I buy good tyres, highest quality affordable chain and sprockets because anything else is false economy. Making a motorcycle handle better or run better is one of my great joys in riding so I choose better quality equipment whenever possible.
I was lucky enough as a twenty something to work for a Ducati dealer and I rode everything I could get my hands on, including some pretty special stuff. That said, any standard bike will out perform a Tarts Handbag. (A collection of expensive parts thrown together without being balanced.)
Ken says
Would you pay more for an SP version of a cooking model from a big manufacturer? An FZ-6, Z750 or CB1000 specced up with Ohlins, Brembo, billet and steroids for a 35% premium, Aprilia or Ducati style? I think I might, provided they still undercut the Italians. But I’d be nervous and so would the manufacturers.
Why? Because, premium or luxury, it’s ALL marketing. Most bikes are fit-for-purpose out of the crate, and if you’re tying them in knots, good on you, you’re obviously a bloody good rider. In truth, the only quality the vast majority of us ever will notice is how quickly the damn thing rots, wobbles or squeaks.
Which may indicate there’s a potential market out there for a two-wheeled Lexus. That’s your bag, Honda.
Daniel says
Whats wrong with being please by the eye? usually looks are everything with symmetry,proportion..so…handling.
I want a bike that is light, low, powerful enough..lets say 50HP and up ? and pretty
I use to drive an XR and got tired of riding stand up and jumping in and out of the bike ,or whising nice cruising speeds…then I got a Shadow and want it better acceleration, handling, braking, etc…then the next one and so on..
there is no perfect bike no real dualsport or multi purpose thing..they are all fakes or mild products without personality or attitude( ie Transalp?)
Conclusion, I would love to have many..one for every mood.what’s the connection with the current subject? I don’t know…But I demand reliability, reliability, reliability, so if I decide to work on a bike is beacuse I want something from the machine that was not available stock…yep!, because manufacturers not always get it right, … or sometimes don’t want it to get it right, or they cant get it right,..just have alook at the head lights of all the new bikes from Kawasaki so say something…I’m too old to find beauty in “the transformers”…or the lovely new Triumphs classics , can they make them more vintage?, or the new Triumphs can’t they stay away of the Mantis theme headlight (sorry its an obsession), or the Ducatis can they just make them last, …on the road …C’mon guys ..is like women…or ice cream …or pizza….can you choose a style ?only 1 flavor ? wouldn’t you change something on the recipe ?…paying extra for your favorite bit, sure…if I got the money ? ..but in luxury, I don’t think so, is not my game, there will be alway somebody with more money..ha!..ha!..ha!, you are doomed to loose there, and by the way who told you whats more beautiful than this other one…is very subjective