Many visitors here, probably you, are a lot more technical than most folks and I bet more than a few of you can build your own computer. If you can, you know a computer is made from very few and very standard parts and those parts can be purchased from a wide variety of sources. Once parts become standardized, producing your own version of the finished product is easy and so is large scale, inexpensive manufacturing. Companies may put their own name on a computer but they only assemble parts from somewhere else. A computer case may be designed to look unique but inside, it looks the same as every other computer.
Now, think about motorcycles. Think of each of the parts found in the average motorcycle and you can probably think of someone making and selling just that part. How unique is each motorcycle manufactured today? Swoopy bodywork removed and what do you have? The engine and frame are the most different but frames can be designed outside the major companies as evidenced by everything from the explosion of choppers to the lower production and one off sportbikes beginning to appear. Engines from the major brands tend to be different but there are other companies building capable engines today, too.
In my earlier posts about a sportbike build off, I alluded to the same idea, but my thought here is this: Why can’t we have a large scale component motorcycle industry? The street rod and kit car guys have a lot of this already and some of the kits you can buy are spectacular. Why isn’t this a bigger business for motorcycles? Lots of bikers are very hands on, it seems a natural. Lots of homebuilders even design and build their own airplanes so why don’t we see more motorcycles built from scratch or from kits? Motorcycles should be as easy to build as a computer, well, relatively, and lots of guys could build a basic (and non chopper) bike for little money. Spend a little more time or money and you get something more unique or higher performing. Is this really huge and I just missed it or is something different with motorcycles? I don’t get it.
Doug says
This is my favorite topic covered by the Kneeslider, and I must say you do an excellent job (hopefully the magazines will follow suit and do some of their own in-depth coverage…then, Discovery, etc.)
The subject matter of this post ties in well with other topics that you have covered. For example, the ability of the solo wrench using modern technology with their own talent to create highly capable tools, parts, & machines.
These 2 topics also tie in with the post earlier in the week, motorcycle niche marketing.
Motorcycling will be much better for everyone once the kit bike niche (beyond cruisers) takes hold in the US market. Ideas generate other ideas & the manufacturers will pay attention (example – Victory, Triumph, & H-D now have a standard or optional wide-tire bike). Bimoto had to start somewhere and they have created great projects that influenced aluminum & steel chassis development. The end result can be manufacturers and smaller shops advancing the performance & style for all bike styles.
The magazine, “Wired”, had an article on fabrication eventually getting to the do-it-yourself at home level…. a major, non-gearhead magazine covering that subject is another good step in the right direction.
Kipio says
Not really relevant to your post, but I believe that one of the big reasons why kit airplanes are so popular is because a major portion of the expense of small airplanes is their certification and lawsuit costs. These don’t exist at the same level with kit airplanes, which makes them a lot cheaper. In fact, some “kit” manufacturers have an assembly facility to which the buyer can travel where they will “assist” him/her in assembling the kit.
RATTSBIKES says
Hi All;
Comments on kit bikes, well why not, for many years us backyard or shade tree mechanics have been fabricating and building all sorts of things from many manufactures. As can be seen in the new metric cruiser markets and the older American Iron motorcycles. If the parts are out there then the builders will build. All I would like to see is connections for parts alot of parts, they don’t have to be fitted to any specific make of bike but they would have to be able to be fitted with motors from major manufactures. After that you could add in anything you wanted as long as it would fit with your idea of a build. If parts were availible WOW I wonder just where this would go, you can buy kits for American iron and never use the Harley name or brand parts and come up with a bike everyone thinks is a Harley, why not with any other brands?
What is the hold up why is this not happening?
aaron says
while crate motors are not available, gsxr based streetfighters would have to be up there as a significant “kit bike”
harris, moko, martin, martek, spondon all make or made “catalog” frames for gsxr 1100 air/oil motors (bandit 1200). many others may have done so and slipped my mind, or just built them as one offs. companies like bakker and steelhart would fall into this category.
as the most long lived (and suitably potent) motor, this makes sense. i know that in the u.k. several shops specialize in reconditioning them with several states of tune available. but last i saw, a spondon frame and swinger cost as much as a year old sportbike. add extra costs, and for a princely sum, you may own a beautiful but foul running and poor handling bike, if the components chosen do not work well together, or are not assembled right.
sport riders have high expectations, and the technology moves too fast for small companies to keep up in the traditional catagories (600, 750, 1000)
seen next year’s r-6? (17,500 rpm!) in 1998 you could have sold several of these to the rc-45 type crowds at $50k a pop. in 3 years clean ones will be around under $5k (U.S.$)
and if your “ahead of the times” r-6 went wrong, or handled poorly, or had too much “personality”, a factory could find lawsuits or recalls worth several times the net sales of a limited run bike.
or, in a different way of looking at this, hundreds (thousands?) of chopper buyers this year alone will splash out a claimed $100k plus for the very “best”, most “unique” bike to be seen during bike week – yet morbedelli sold less than 10 motorcycles in the late 90’s – AN 850CC V8 based heavily on THE COSWORTH F1 ENGINE!
not the kinda thing you see a sweating 50 year old trying to kink over at starbucks every sunday morning. and at $85k, a bargin (in my mind) next to any of these bikes.
todays kit chopper buyer wants a particular bike: a big, air-cooled, pushrod, non unit twin. one of 3 frame types. big rear tire and monster rake looks cool, so poor handling will be tolerated. lots of buyers for these few focused products means many vendors can meet these needs without the need to worry about utter failure if the product is of the same quality, using the same design brief.
a kit sportbike market may have enough customers to warrent a crate motor. but we may want: an air or water cooled, 1,2,3,4,5,6,8 cylinder in a v, boxer, or inline layout. 2 or 4 stroke? some will want a busa class 500 pounder, while others want the same motor to fit a 340lb motogp replica.
now, if a big enough market can be found for one of these several dozen motors, will buyers want a steel tube, alloy tube, alloy beam, carbon beam, or carbon monocoque frame? a slice of the sportbike market big enough to support a motor can support maybe 2-4 frame designs. will your choice of the above be built to accomodate a telescopic, swingarm, hossack (duolever), or saxon (telelever) front end?
whew. so far we have tens of thousands of components, and we have to pick the right design from these (not the best, the best selling) -or financial collapse will follow. and the engineering will have to be far more intense than a hardtail with no weight limitations, no comfort constraints, that can handle poorly (by our sportbike standards) and has to handle only 80-120 real rear wheel hp.
and if the motor is the wrong choice, the frame companies will collapse due to lack of interest. if the frame companies do a bad job, the engine will be a lost investment. try selling that to investors.
AND IN 3 YEARS OUR EFFORTS WILL BE CONSIDERED OBSELETE.
sigh.
(which explains why i’m studying engineering instead of manufacturing, and why my dream is now small scale exotica rather than the kit and modified market)
Doug says
yeah, yeah….challenges are around anything worthwhile.
Obsolete is a relative and vague term when describing streetbikes.
A skilled builder can create a bike beyond most streetriders’ skill level [or beyond our roads’ civil engineering limits].
This custom performance bike could be built using current suspension components, engines from the last 10 years, & various chassis geometry specs.
Obsolete in terms of the racer boy’s perception after reading the magazines’ hp, weight, & 0-60 numbers? yes. Those riders are likely to be interested in splash graphics and could still get smoked in the corners by a custom special with a big twin.
kneeslider says
Aaron, engineers need to recognize problems and you’ve done a good job of pointing out some of the challenges and pitfalls, but engineers also solve problems. That’s the point of engineering. A well defined problem is better able to be solved so you have a good start. Don’t stop halfway.
Suppose you were employed as an engineer and your assignment was to engineer kit bikes or parts for eventual production. Given your outlined problems, take your assignment to the next step and think about possible solutions. Maybe you need to redefine the problems a bit or just say, since (this problem exists), why don’t we try (this possible solution)? Be a problem solver, there’s more money in it. Critics often work for free.
aaron says
not pouring water on any ideas, just looking at some issues that will be raised by investors. look at the new norton commando. the initial run has been sold out for quite a while now (over a year?) but I don’t think one has been built or delivered yet. to make the expensive limited run feasable a production line has to be set up for the standard model.
and for doug, i don’t argue with your point at all, and it’s very sad that so many spend a grand or two on their bike to improve performance, when some instruction would go a long way… most bikes can only use their performance on the track anyways, a big single is most suited for public roads in my mind if you want to tear it up.
curt says
You guys all have very valuble points. The kit bike thing has realy blown up, particularly with the Harley crowd. Since the American V-TWIN is the most coppied engine on the planet it seems only natural to use them. After all, they make great power, and lets face it, there not the oil leakers of yesteryear. It seems as though people are interested in kits, being able to build your own bike and have something uniqe is what its all about. Now imagine building your own bike that was as uniqe as a custom painted chopper, but with the ability to give any modern sport bike a run for its money the minuite the road took a few turns. Thats what Im talking about.
BIG TWIN RACERS.COM
Scudracer says
We need something cheap and cheerful, like the Aermacchi Racers featured on kneeslider but with Honda Cub style powertrains which are so plentiful in Asia! Kawasaki and others make very similar units. The configuration is virtually identical to Aermacchi but in 100, 110cc and 125cc. The latest Honda Wave 125i in Thailand comes with Honda’s PGM-FI electronic fuel injection!! Takegawa sells kits to convert transmissions from 4-speed to 6-speed.
larry poch says
i just want to know if there is a place were you can build a v8 bike and not have to buy the roller all at one yime for 10.000.00 dollars buy what you can afford and make what you can i have built 6 bikes made frame and most all parts but if i had a tran. that put the tail shaft out to yhe left or right i would be in tall cotton but i have been looking for 3 years and nothing that can handle any hp got a tip on something let me know thanks larry