The Kneeslider

Doers Builders and Positive People

Motorcycle Kickstarters – No, the Other Kind

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Kickstarter - no the other kind
Kickstarter – no, the other kind
You’ve read the stories before, the lone inventor or small company has built a prototype of the next big thing, a revolutionary engine or a fantastic new design for a motorcycle, and all they need now are “investors” to carry it through. They should try Kickstarter.

Kickstarter projects, no, not the old lever kind, the money kind, have become the current favorite way to crowd fund new companies or individuals with a good idea but not much money. This isn’t limited to small amounts, Kickstarter can raise millions of dollars to start, or vastly expand, new companies, build new products, make an event happen, make a movie, write a book, almost anything. Here are some current projects in the technology category to give you an idea of what’s happening now.

Lots of money from lots of people

If you haven’t heard of it, the way it works is pretty simple, you tell your story, you set a funding goal of how much you need and donations are accepted at various levels, usually starting at $10 dollars or so. If you don’t reach your goal, no one pays. If you do, everyone pledged pays, you get the money and move ahead and contributors get whatever was promised in return for their donation based on amount.

With those motorcycle or engine projects, instead of looking for some venture capitalist to give them a ton of money, maybe they should ask you and me for a little.

Kickstarter is a great way to weed out the real from the fantasy. If a designer or inventor can convince enough people that the idea has merit, he gets to build it. If proponents of technologies, like electric vehicles for instance, really believe in them, they can fund them.

No more excuses, what’s your idea?

The bigger picture here is how the barriers and hurdles that used to exist are fast disappearing. In the same way that education is opening up at a furious pace with a vast array of free and low cost online resources, even the ability to fund a new business or build a new product is becoming easier. In the past, the old, “we don’t have the money,” excuse would get everyone nodding their heads at the difficulty and unfairness of it all, now the real hurdle is coming up with a good enough idea that will actually sell. Some people are finding their idea wasn’t as wonderful as they believed while others are dumbstruck to find enormous support. This is a fantastic way to get past the “no money” problem and focus on developing a genuinely good idea instead.

It should be interesting to see what shows up on Kickstarter in the future, but it will be even more interesting to see if some of the well thought out but underfunded projects we see here take their idea to that next stage.

Link: Kickstarter

Comments

  1. It will separate the talkers from the doers. Given a large enough sample of potential investors, a project will be vetted in short order. A valid idea with a sound marketing plan will attract attention and, by extension, seed cash. A pie-in-the-sky concept that looks like fun but has no practical plan will get shot down.

  2. The downside of this is the donor never gets paid back, its a gift to the project. Its not a form of investment, you cannot buy into the ideas. Though I like the thought of being able to buy a project this way. Maybe they have illuminated an niche

    • Carolynne —

      You’re right — there seems to be no return on investment, unless donors can make deals to get in on the game when (if) the project becomes viable and makes a profit. The way I read it, though, it’s a form of charitable donation to promising artists, artisans or fabricators. Donors are, in effect, patrons that might or might not want publicity and have no input into the effort. They wouldn’t even be able to deduct it from their taxes.

      • Amen to both of you . My additional take being it feels too much , on my part like you’re ripping the Donors off . I’ve had people beg me to let them ‘Kickstart ‘ a future musical project , but every time I consider doing so it leaves a very bad taste in my mouth . No matter how hard i try i cannot get my head around this ‘ Kickstart ‘ thing . Simply put , just because a ‘ fool ‘ wants to become parted with his/her money to be ‘ A Part ‘ of my project doesn’t justify my taking advantage of them . I say do it on your own / or with legitimate investors …… or you simply should NOT be in business for yourself . If you’re incapable of taking the first few steps ( financing finding investors etc ) WTH makes you think you can handle it when the REAL aspects of Business ( inventory / cost control / employees etc ) come into play ?

      • One of the terms of conditions is the project cannot offer a project as an investment, so you can’t (or are not supposed) to make deals like that. Though all the info is there, if you really liked an idea you could probably track them down.

        • I guess it’s mostly to help someone get an idea of the ground without the individual donors ponying up more cash than they want to. It’s more philanthropy than anything else unless the donors really want a copy of the CD or first shot at buying the bike/car/kitchen gadget that might result. Nothing wrong with this as long as everyone agrees with the terms. It would help get worthwhile projects off the ground. If it is a project with good profit potential and actually makes it to production, I hope there is a way for donors to become investors at a later date.

      • That’s screwed up. U can give money to Hamas and get a tax receipt.

        Neat program. I hope we see a lot more of it to come.

    • The donor often gets something in return for the donation. If it’s a small product, he may be one of the first to actually get one. If it’s a book or a video, he can get one of those. Sometimes he gets to meet the builder/creator, or something similar.

      This isn’t like a regular investment, this is more like kicking in to help start something (kickstarter) you think is neat or should be done because you believe in it. Besides, the amount is small, $10 or $25, more if you wish, but not thousands, you normally aren’t going to be looking to be a part owner for that amount.

      It’s a great way to see if your idea is valuable at some level and could dramatically decrease time to market compared to doing everything yourself. As a supporter, you get a chance to help something you want to be successful. Some very large companies started out very small, so it could be all that’s necessary to germinate the seed of something huge.

      • I’ve supported three Kickstarter projects so far and the person running the project has always given me something in return. People really need to check out the site before they start all the nay-saying and tut-tutting!

        • I have checked out the site and its not for me. I am not interested in giving other people capital to build a business on something they may or may not deliver on. Funny thing it says so clearly in the terms and conditions it is not to be used to start a business, yet in many cases thats exactly what the project leaders are doing. An ability to get interest free capital with very little accountability (kickstarter says your on your own in case of dispute which includes quality and delivery, they also do not monitor or bear any responsibilty if the project actually gets completed) If I am going to give my money to someone so they can develop a revenue stream, even if its only 10 dollars I expect to get in on the rewards. Otherwise I have zero interest in making someone else rich.

      • Kickstarter definitely is not an investment vehicle, but that doesn’t mean the donors get nothing. A kickstarter to publish a book, for instance, may offer donors the choice of an e-book copy for one price, a printed copy for another price, a signed copy for a higher price, and so on.

        At its most basic level, Kickstarter is just like pre-ordering a product. The two key advantages are better communication with the seller and a greater variety of options, especially for smaller donations.

  4. I’ve contributed to several Kickstarter projects and have had a great experience every time. As far as I’m concerned, it’s been a great bang for the buck. My little nephew loves his desktop trebuchet, and it’s extra sweet that he got an extra plaque with thanks for helping get the project started – a benefit for investors. That and the emails and videos of the startup process were plenty of return on (a very modest) investment for me.

  5. Kickstarter is brilliant. People get to buy the product at a good price. Normally an inventor or creator has to build the product, packaging and then market it. Often struggling and never succeeding.

    Now you can create the product, go to kickstarter or any of the other similar companies, seek funding, sell truckloads of product, immediately set up manufacture in volume, make good money and kick start your business.

    Sheer brilliance.

    These guys created the product and went look for funders and that’s with them already being successful. No luck sourcing funds. Kickstarter the product and they do over $10 million insoles.

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-e-paper-watch-for-iphone-and-android

    And this one from a couple of first timers making and selling their own product from Queenstown, New Zealand. They raised $600,000, the max they asked for.

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/syrp/genie-motion-control-time-lapse-device?ref=category

    If you filter through the product design category you see project after project that struck gold and got a product made that they would have struggled to get to the world.

    This is a key marketing structure for new and existing businesses that pulls in a pile of capital and allows you to get volume going quickly.

    A motorbike product would be brilliant to see.

  7. Iput a few dollars into a starter project for software,they got the funding for kids reading and math and not 30minutes ago they dropped off a new acer laptop for my son. Can’t wait to see his face when he walks in the door. We got the laptop for $199 instead of the normal $479.

  8. I don’t see a category on Kickstarter where a motorcycle invention would fit. Closest is ‘Design’ and they forbid ‘Automotive Products’ (which I would take that to include ‘Motorcycle Products’). Anyone see where our kind of creations would find a home?

  9. Something else that should be mentioned is that if the goal for a kickstarter project isn’t met, you are not charged for anything.

    • It may work in some cases and when it does congrats, but you are taking a risk with your money that the people are actually willing and capable to deliver. They are under no obligation to do so, all they are required to do is make a good faith effort. If you are willing to send your money to someone who is actually in no way accountable for delivering a product, thats a choice you are fully entitled to make. Here is an example of why I would never do this. I don’t enjoy being a naysayer, but in the world we live in this set up is just a time bomb. An ability to raise money quickly. No actual responsibility to deliver, no follow up no enforcement. You only option is to leave comments. You send money and that person doesn’t honour thier “promise” you are on your own

      http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zioneyez/eyeztm-by-zioneyez-hd-video-recording-glasses-for/comments

      • Carolynne —

        You pays your money and you takes your chances — that seems to be the ethic behind Kickstarter. Everyone goes into it knowing this, so I don’t see their beef. It’s not a catalog where you order and pay, and expect shipment. It’s pay first in the hope of getting something later. The idea of taking someone to small-claims court is ludicrous — the judge would throw it out. — And, as someone pointed out, Kickstarter isn’t for automotive projects, and I’m sure that includes motorcycles — anything requiring title & license. So really, this entire posting isn’t very relevant to Kneeslider. I know Paul likes to think outside the box, but I think the only reason he addressed it is the name “Kickstarter”. And when’s the last time you saw one of those on a new bike? BTW — how’s your search for a Virago going?

        • Thats just the thing, not everyone pays knowing that. Thats evident from just read the other comments above, Many believe they are buying the product and don’t read the the fine print. The glasses are only one example there are others like this one.

          http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/831303939/hanfree-ipad-accessory-use-the-ipad-hands-free

          As for the Viragio I am on a borrowed bike at the moment. I think I am paying the price for making my husband sell his bike years ago. He is exacting a little revenge. I have to admit it, its deserved. I never should have made him sell it.

      • Carolynne, you’re identifying a real issue with Kickstarter as it was designed to be used, but NOT an issue with how it is actually being used.

        Seth Godin, very recently had a very successful Kickstarter funding for a book he hasn’t written yet. You might think, why give him money? What if he doesn’t write it, or what if it’s a terrible book? What happened, is the large following he already has from his previous books and blog, donated in a matter of hours, far more than he needed. It’s trust and reputation first, funding later.

        The completely unknown person who comes up with a wild idea will have a far more difficult time getting funding, it goes back to all of those things we learned a long time ago that some young people today think you can abandon in this cyber age, things like a history of hard work and accomplishments along with a reputation for honesty and integrity.

        And B50, you say:

        So really, this entire posting isn’t very relevant to Kneeslider. I know Paul likes to think outside the box, but I think the only reason he addressed it is the name “Kickstarter”.

        You’re way off the mark on that one which you’ll see very soon.

  10. Someone has walked off with 343,415 dollars without actually delivering a product. This occured within the past year, this is clearly one of the ways kickstarter is being actually used and is not just a theoritical problem

    • If you want to dig in your heels and pronounce it as no good, you’re free to do so, however, we continue to use email regardless of the money lost to Nigerian scammers. People continue to buy those used “creampuffs” on used car lots from smooth talkers, some even after they’ve lost their shirts on real lemons before. Focus on the bad and you’ll lock yourself indoors.

      As I noted in my comment above, reputation and trust is already becoming enormously valuable and people will choose to deal with those who have it in venues like Kickstarter and avoid those who don’t.

      • I didnt say it was no good. What I said was be prepared to lose your money, you are taking a risk and it is completely about trust, I agree, and you so eloquently pointed out, there is good reason to be suspicious in the world we live in today especially in this case where the company Kickstarter insulates itself completely from any responsibility as does Amazon, and will in no way help you if you are dissappointed. For me, I am not prepared to take that risk unless there is a financial advantage to me to do so. Because you are “donating” to development as opposed to buying you are not protected through consumer protection laws. The delivery dates are guidelines as opposed to deadlines. I think its actually a very good idea, but there are some major flaws that have to be addressed. As you said yourself it would be hard for an unknown to get funding, and it will be especially difficult in the future after a few projects burn people. Doesn’t this defeat the purpose behind the site in the first place. If the project leaders were actually to be liable for what they promise its a whole different ballgame. In the end this can actually get in the way of future “crowdfunding” and honest individuals.

  11. I think everyone has focused on losing money however no-one has considered losing their idea by posting it in public.
    K

    • The Internet is awash in ideas, they are even cheaper than the proverbial “dime a dozen,” there are, literally, thousands for free. What is rare is the necessary ambition, know how and persistence to bring it to life. Those that have what it takes have their own ideas and won’t be stealing yours. Those that steal yours, won’t do anything with it.

      • I see potential in “Kickstarter” as a vehicle that enables an innovator to capitalize on his/her concept without the pitfalls of IP, trolls, infringements, etc. Quick and unleveraged development funding. First to market. Anticipated product with standing pre-orders among the early adopters. Beautiful. If they do it well, and do it ethically, then they can do it repeatedly. Lead the curve.

        • I agree with you from a project leader point of view about the unleveraged development funding, whats not to love about that? Free money. it is brillant for the developer. But how do you avoid the pitfalls of IP, trolls and infringements? and what exactly is an infringement? Wouldn’t you still have to deal with these issues? especially the trolls

          • Statistically, I believe that just three percent of patent holders break even or profit from their efforts. I’m in the small group that has actually made money from patents and I’ve got the grey hair to prove it. Patent filings are notoriously slow and expensive. Patent trolls and knock-off artists are parasitic life forms that take root and thrive in the shadows of glacial product development and marketing cycles. Those threats could be neutralized with a fast and hard-hitting program backing the right 0.833 cent idea.

            • I had a complete misunderstanding of the term trolls, I was thinking those guys that post inflammatory and insulting comments to help themselves feel better about their own pathetic lives. It would be interesting to hear the details of your experience. How did you go about getting backers. I have a cousin who invented and patented technology that allowed large underground mine equipment to be remotely controlled from surface, when he did the product demonstration he had the guys control a machine in a mine in Sudbury from head office in Toronto he subsequently sold it and made millions.

              • Wow! Your cousin did very well, then.

                I once had a very successful fitness product on TV. Ironically, I recieved my patent when it was already off-air. I’ve done stuff in other industries, as well. And there are also a few fish stories (you know…the real big ones that got away).

              • Yeah he did pretty well, he still is actually, surprized me for sure, I had no idea he was doing anything other than mining, then suddenly it turns out they revolunized the industry. It has saved lives because now they dont have to send men down to do the long hole blasting, I am pretty proud of him. You can check out his stuff on thier web page, his company is called Cast Resources out of Sudbury

  12. I have to agree with the other posters who urge caution about Kickstarter. There is a major issue in the lack of accountability. This is all very well for someone pledging $10 towards an art project, but if you’re going to shell out big money for a high-tech product which is not even in production yet, with no guarantees of delivery, then you are reckless at best! The “Genie” photography equipment which Mystic linked to above ( http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/syrp/genie-motion-control-time-lapse-device?ref=category ) is a prime example. The finished product is a high-end piece of equipment. They’ve had over 800 ‘backers’ contribute between $690 and $790 each with the promise of owning one of the devices, although we will still have to wait a few months to see if the deliveries come through. The truly fearless contributors are the five backers (presumably retailers) who have each stumped up $10,000 for a bulk-buy of 20 units. If you ask me, any business person who invests $10k into a product with no legally binding contract or delivery date is foolish. Hopefully, fortune will favour the bold.

    • And in this case we have a industrial designer with experience in bringing products to market and manufacturing in China and a business partner in the movie business. They have a well formed prototype and can demonstrate the results of that prototype in filming. The prototype appears to be the final design or close to it. Given 3D printing technology and the ability of model makers I’d take a et on this one. A close friend of mine has. We’re both based here in NZ and we are aware of the laws here.

      Time will tell.

  13. I was researching this topic recently to fund an idea I’ve got and came across this site: http://www.garagefunder.com/

    The site is still in pre launch, but I’ll definitely submit my project when it’s live, i think that there would be more of a chance of gearhead projects being funded by other gearheads.

    • Gary, I would be very concerned about that, from that site:

      “Keep what you raise!
      This approach allows you to keep all funds generated,
      even if you don’t reach your target!

      No upfront costs!
      At the end of each campaign we charge a commission on all funds generated,
      5% if you reach your goal, 9% if you don’t.”

      Would you contribute to a project under those terms? At least with Kickstarter, if a stated goal is not met, you don’t contribute.

  14. Paul, can you give some links to some cool designs? All I could see was a bunch of hipster junk projects. I’m sure that there are some cool motorcycle projects buried in there somewhere…

  15. Is there any connection between the amount of hysterical FUD spewed from the “doodooers/don’ters/do-notsies” above and the fact that they will never have any project featured here?

    Yeah, it really sucks to find out that people might actually want to give money to other people who, like, you know, do stuff.

    Now that I think about it, I can imagine some pretty stupid comments (no shortage of inspiration for that provided by, uh, oh nevermind…) and keep my projects to myself.

    • [quote]Yeah, it really sucks to find out that people might actually want to give money to other people who, like, you know, do stuff.[/quote]
      That is I think the best way to approach this type of kick-start funding: I.E. only invest what you are willing to loose, and if the project works out, then everyone’s happy.

      If fact, I wonder if a plain simple one-off donation would be a better way to fund smaller one-off projects such as a custom bike.

      The donation need not be much, nor should it cost the donor (Many online payment systems, like paypal, are free, if paying via a local account or linked bank account). Just one dollar/pound/euro would pay for many projects (I have a couple of small projects blogged on a couple of forums, if I had received just one cent/penny for each viewing, it would have easily covered my costs).

      All the donor need receive would be the thanks of the project author and the warm feeling of having contributed to the project.

      Bill

    • Are you crazy, or what? Give money to people who “do stuff”?

      Oh, c’mon. Those of us in the civilized western judaeo-christian world only GIVE away our money to “worthy” causes. Ya know, like to feed thousands of homeless drug addicts in the hope of reaching just one deserving military vet that lost his/her home to the corrupt wall street tycoons selling MCO’s and Risk Derivatives. Or by supporting our personal political party with donations to run wildly inaccurate media campaigns to convince others that our delusions are the right and proper form of insanity.

      Know what? I’ve got time to micro-blog and I’m staying home tonight so I won’t have to tip that cute 20-something for the pleasure of watching her walk away after serving a round of Tanqueray..so I also have a new found $20 bill. I’ll send it to some KickStarter wannabe, not in the hopes that it will make anyone rich or successful, but to save my liver.

      • Oh hell!, just heard that Benny Hinn needs a few million THIS WEEK to make payments on his mansions and fleet of Mercedes Limos and Rolls Royces…..all needed to do Gawd’s work and spread that Very Special Version of The Truth.

        Gotta give ma double ten spot to a “worthy” cause, so the KickStarter pledge has to go on the back burner.

        NOT.

        • Since it is obvious that you probably don’t get out very many evenings anyway, next time you take a break from posting political comments on news sites whilst shilling for OWS (do people actually get paid to do that too?), do some research (you know, on the internet, so you don’t get disoriented) on, say, how Erik Buell’s racing effort got its initial funding.

          Then waddle outside, adjust to the sunlight, and go to a race and find out what real people do with motorcycles.

          In the mean time, thanks, Doug (Kneeslider guest writer, all around good guy, and owner/rider of a Real Motorcycle) for telling me about “Kickstarter not too long ago.

  16. Great Article Paul

    While there are many that have pointed out the risks for buyers it’s still human nature to support people with new ideas and cool products. You may not be able to do a motorcycle but surely you can do motorcycle accessories and add ons.

    I think a lot of people support a project to help get the person going and the product to market. There is no excuse for poor communication as listed in the examples from Carolynne. Even “it’s not working, we can’t produce it, there will be a 50% return of fee and here’s what we spent.” would be better than nothing”

    I’m still a big fan of kickstarter and other funding options.

    Paul, hopefully your article has inspired some people to have a go getting a product out there. Some mentioned losing IP. The flip side is people spend $$ on holding onto IP and never selling the product.

    Sadly I can’t think of a motorcycle related product to build. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

    Okay I have one now… Paul perhaps you can have a follow up article issuing a challenge to readers to get a product on there and made.

  18. What a shame! If I would have known that! I could have made my UraldneprBMWDAFVWHondaSuzuki with chrome plated rims and should have sold a lot of them.

  19. Paul, all I want to know is more about the red-painted kick-starter on the Evo Sportster at the top of the page. I have an ’88 XL 1200 and really miss having a kicker. LedSled makes a kit which has a Sporty kicker, but requires a new output shaft and costs a grand. Is there a link to that, or is that one of the inventions being shown on “Kickstarter”? Is it a prototype, or available as a product? It looks like it could be built by a home fabricator with a few power tools and a welder. If there are plans available, I’d like to have a copy.