Motoczysz has developed an electric drive system, the MotoCzysz Electric D1g1tal Dr1ve, and will be offering it for sale to teams that want to take part in the upcoming electric racing series. The ability of small teams to develop class leading drive systems is getting out of reach so in an effort to fill the grid, these setups will be for sale in 2 configurations, one has the motor, controller, suitcase chassis, 8 battery packs, the other without the ESS (energy storage system), which is the 8 battery packs.
The batteries are “hot swap” which, I guess, means you can pull into the pits, swap out the discharged packs and head back out on the track. If that operation goes smoothly, it could make electric racing somewhat viable.
The Motoczysz system basically gets you into electric racing without the need to reinvent the wheel. You get most of the basics for a competitive bike, all you do is finish it and show up on race day.
This is an interesting direction for Motoczysz since moving away from their C1, which I would have really liked to see fully developed. They have some pretty nice engineering here, though how far this can run under racing conditions and at what level of performance remains to be seen. I wish them the best of luck.
I received several tips on this, from Joek , Harlan and others. Thanks guys!
Link: Motoczysz
QrazyQat says
Looks interesting. Guess they figured there was a choice between being one of the crowd or getting to be one of the founders and a good chance at being the leader. Electric vehicles are certainly far more interesting and further along than I dreamed they’d be even 10 years ago.
HowardsCustoms says
Glad to see they are still alive and kicking. Their C1 bike was radical. I hope they were able to license at least some of their concepts to the large manufacturers. The counter rotating cams to promote a neutral balance was just one of the many small enhancements they had on that bike- really neat stuff.
Gitan says
Complete Electrical D1g1tal Dr1ve System W/ 10kWh ESS $42,500*
(motor, controller, suitcase chassis, 8 battery packs)
Complete Electrical D1g1tal Dr1ve System W/O ESS $24,500
(motor, controller, suitcase chassis)
Battery packs are neary half of the price.
I guess they found a good thing ! I hope so…
todd says
Interesting but I imagine the main focus of creating your own electric motorcycle is developing the power pack for it. Now you’re left with designing a frame to fit his components. Sure, this is much like the old pioneer days of JAP or Matchless (or current Rotax) proprietary motors in your own cycle parts, but it doesn’t translate that well to the current era. Electric vehicle manufacturers are racing to develop and prove their own technology, not someone else’s. Hopefully he’ll find a ready market.
-todd
Bigshankhank says
I must agree with you Todd, this isn’t like homologation racing, but rather more akin to F1 or motoGP, more teams should be pushing the technology further. Not that I fault Csysz, they are trying to make the races more viable for a larger group of teams, and of course make a little money, but I don’t think electric vehicle racing is at a point where we should be determining the best riders on similar spec’d machines.
GenWaylaid says
Todd and Bigshankhank,
Bear in mind that in racing conditions the performance will depend heavily on controller hardware and software, both of which can be altered on the MotoCyzsz system without any outward indications. If you think your team has an advantage in battery technology, you can order without the Cyzsz packs and spent some time in the shop replacing that oddly shaped “suitcase chassis” with the appropriate shape for your pack.
To my mind selling an entire ready-to-race bike would be even better. Then there would be teams running only lightly modified versions; teams that tinker with the controller, batteries, or motor on a smaller budget; and teams that build their own bikes on a larger budget.
johnny says
I really love the modular concept, he is a really gifted designer, but it seems rather underpowered-100Bbhp doesn’t sound like very exciting racing.I would have thought at the very least it would have 150 bhp, considering the weight it’s carrying
pabsy says
this is dead on arrival for so many reasons but the design as always is exquisite if not the most practical
a more interesting story may be their new customer, a large asian manufacturer of motorcycles i think, where he has a deal with the founders son
this seems like a great fit whereby they can add style and direction to the factory resources
anyone know about this
Prim3r says
So, is the C1 project officially shelved?
Joek Hondius says
I love the “open development” vision.
This could work out in a new era of engenering.
I would like more manifacturers take the same route.
Esp. in the motorcycle world.
Nick56289 says
Electric vehicles will not be viable until there is a huge improvement in battery technology. There will not be a huge improvement in battery technology until the market demands it. The market wont demand it until we run very low on oil. This is cool but its not going anywhere yet.
pabsy says
nick56289
respectfully your wrong about demand, as demand is not limited to vehicles, the demand for a denser engergy battery is epidemic in electronics for examples, and soloutuns will migrate across industries instantly
your right that e-vehicles are not ready for prime time, if we can see a 10 fold minimal increase in energy density which we certainly will and more this decade then its game changing
cnc says
Does anyone know the supplier for his motor and controller?
Harlan says
We need to see a minimum ten fold increase in energy density? Are you kidding?
That 10kWh battery pack is probably good for anywhere from 50-150 miles of range depending on whether your going balls out on the freeway or cruising around town. Not sure how much gas your motorcycle tank holds but it certainly doesn’t hold 10 times that range.
nortley says
Let’s see, a burnt out dual sport, a Czysz pack, and a sawzall… Is there any inherent feature of the Czysz pack that restricts it to the track? No noise or emissions are there? I see a really cool power pack for more than just racers here.
WillyP says
Quote= Johnny: but it seems rather underpowered-100Bbhp
Keep in mind that an electric motor delivers power differently that an internal combustion motor. Generally there is a 2.5 ratio ‘rule of thumb’ applied. That means that a 100 horsepower could do the work of a 250 gas engine. Of course, there are some variables involved, so the 2.5 may not be accurate. And of course you are correct about the extra weight.
Cycleguy says
Electric motor HP is rated at continuous, not peak, since peak power depends on the ability of the motor to cool itself. In industrial applications, the peak power is typically 5 to 10 times the continuous rating. In this case, since it is liquid cooled, it’s continuous power is closer to it’s peak power output. The controller has an output of 240V and 350+ amps with is roughly 85Kw or 114HP at peak.
I think this drive package is a real step forward, however it’s much too expensive still.
It won’t be until larger companies start producing these high voltage AC (or BLDC) controllers in volume before we see a significant price reduction to the point where small volume manufacturers can start producing high powered electric motorcycles at reasonable prices. It’s a chicken and egg situation, need volume to lower the price and low prices to increase volume.
todd says
WillyP, I’ve never heard of this “rule of thumb” for electric motors and I’ve been involved in the electric vehicle industry. Horsepower is horsepower. If the D1g1tal bike is indeed producing 250 HP at peak then why one earth wouldn’t Czysz use that to his marketing advantage? What everyone is forgetting here is that the bike does not have the same advantage (nor can it use it to its advantage) of a variable gear reduction system like the typical ICE bike. Big torque at low RPM is in every way the equivalent of low torque at high RPM. Give a motor the additional benefit of high RPM and ratio-overlapping power bands (and light weight) and you have a fast bike.
Cycle guy, “peak power” is often very difficult to achieve since applying it has a negative effect on available energy to produce it. A battery only has its full capacity when; A) it is new, B) it is freshly charged, and C) when environmental conditions are “just right”.
I’m not playing down the major feat it is of producing something like this, market ready, this early on. Nor do I think electric vehicles, motorcycles included, are a waste of engineering effort. I am just sharing my opinion that the only way to judge the performance of an electric motorcycle against an equivalent ICE version is through real-time testing. So far the TTXGP has shown them to be the equivalent of a nicely tuned 250. And that ain’t a bad thing.
-todd
Harlan says
Notice that in the specs it says “100hp (continuous)”. This is not the peak horsepower, but what it is able to put out on a consistent basis. Electric motorcycles do not need a transmission because they have such a wide power band. Transmissions were invented to compensate for the deficiencies of an internal combustion engine and its narrow power band.
Horsepower however is not really as important as torque on a windy racetrack. The torque is what helps the bike accelerate and get up to speed after coming around a corner. An electric motor is able to produce peak torque at zero RPM. The MotoCzysz is able to produce 250 ft-lbs of torque. Even a Hayabusa does not produce half that torque when its torque curve peaks at around 8000rpm.
Nick56289 says
pabsy
I hope you are right. I should have said that if we put as much funding and effort into engineering better batteries as we do into getting more oil we would already have adequate batteries for EV’s by now.
Everyone Else
We already have the electric motor technology down. Electric motor vehicle have small outputs because they can not store much energy.
turbohead says
This is interesting, technically. However, the price they ask is a joke. Have a look at Agnimotors.com and check their prices for the motors most teams use. There must be some very revolutionary control electronics involved here to justify the jump from the humble (Indian) prices to $42.500!
WillyP says
Todd, I never said 100hp=250hp, nor did I say the bike is producing 250hp. And I knew someone like you would try to dispute what I wrote which is why I wrote “Of course, there are some variables involved, so the 2.5 may not be accurate.”. The 2.5 rule of thumb is well known in most industries that commonly use both gas and electric power. My experience in this is in the hydraulics industry. Electric motors have a much broader power-band than gas motors. So even though the maximum continuous power is the same, the electric motor has more ‘power under the curve’ by a factor of about 2.5. My response was directed at someone’s comment about the 100hp seeming to be too small. All I am saying is, if you are going to compare apples to oranges, there needs to be some adjustments for the basic differences.
todd says
What many are missing is that the typical ICE has a huge advantage with gear reduction. The comparison with the ‘Busa is most amusing. In first gear the Suzuki Hayabusa can produce 993 lb-ft of peak torque at the rear wheel, 735 in second, 579 in third, 488 in fourth, 431 for fifth, and 396 in top gear.
Not enough info is provided on the D1g1tal to make decent assumptions. The 250 ft-lb of torque is at (or very near to) ZERO rpm. This equates to ZERO mph (or nearly ZERO). Its claimed HP is 114 (85kW controller) and continuous 100 HP @ 77 ft-lb. We don’t know what RPM the motor is spinning at top speed (assumed 120 mph) so we can’t determine overall gear reduction. Considering that the torque production is fairly linear it can be easily determined that the D1g1tal motor is producing around 164 ft-lb of torque at 60 mph (stacking assumptions for sure). The Hayabusa has all of six choices of gears for 60 mph, potentially producing close to the 993 ft-lb of rear wheel torque at that speed (in first gear for maximum acceleration). That means the D1g1tal would need an approximate 6:1 gear reduction to match the acceleration of the Hayabusa at 60 mph. Considering that the typical electric motor spins closer to 4500 rpm, with a 6:1 reduction it could only reach 54 mph as its top speed…
All that to say; “not even close”.
-todd
Dr. Gellar says
I’m excited by this. It’s really good to see MotoCzysz coming out with their own electric racing drive system for sale, as an alternative to the Agni-powered Mavizen. The competition to get potential race teams to use either brand should only help to push electric racing development further. It’ll be interesting to see what comes next, as this is supposedly the first in a family of electric drive systems from them. And their 2010 E1pc will no doubt use a similar drive system as well.
I hope this works out for MotoCzysz, and that they can start to truly grow their company from it. Maybe then they can find a means to reignite their original quest to enter MotoGP in 2012 (when 1,000cc engines will be allowed) or soon after, developing a variant of their C1 and the E1pc concurrently Now that would be sweet!
todd says
Of course, better time could be spent comparing something more equivalent, like a 600cc inline-4 since it make nearly identical HP. If both bikes are geared for approximately the same top speed they should be fairly even acceleration wise (discounting weight and traction / lift handicaps). This is highly impressive to think that an electric motorcycle is currently nearly on par with the typical inline-4 gasser. Give it the range of a tank of gas at highway speeds and it’s now a viable alternative.
I’m glad there is a company like MotoCzysz pushing this envelope and leading the way – not just the usual players (ie Honda, BMW, Yamaha, etc).
-todd
Miles says
First 10 for $32,500