You have to keep looking or you’ll miss the developments over at Motoczysz. They have new video of the E1 on the dyno, showing a slow roll on that makes 0-120mph in under 11 seconds. According to the blog entry on their site, a more aggressive roll on could have dropped the time by perhaps 2 seconds.
In addition, this first test utilized 75% of our total IOM pack and not at a full state of charge. If all of our estimates are correct, we could have a Digital Superbike with 0-120mph times in the 7 to 8 second range.
0-120 in 7 to 8 seconds? Nice. As Michael points out, this isn’t a drag bike, either, it’s a sportbike. With handling of the Motoczysz probably already well sorted, this should be quite a bike.
The video also shows the battery packs installed on the bike contoured to fit the fairing, the previous video used remote batteries. It’s looking good.
Link: Motoczysz via Autobloggreen
Mark X says
Yesterday my phone rang, and I was off on a 160 mile round trip jaunt. I jumped on my 650 Burgman, and blasted up and down I-95 at near triple digit speed. An uneventful trip. I am looking forward to the day when I can make the same journey on a zero emmision, reliable, smooth running and clean ELECTRIC motorcycle. I can’t wait. Go get ’em Motocycsz. Ride Safe, Mark.
taxman says
if they can make a bike that can put out enough power to get it up to 120mph (especially that quickly) and give it enough juice to finish a 35 mile (?) race track. how many miles could they get it to go if they limited the power output to say 80mph. isn’t the mission one bike a 150mph 150mile range bike? i’m sure motoczysz is comparable. those stats meet or exceed my daily riding requirements. i do occasionally take longer rides but not too often.
i can honestly say that if price was comparable and the style was acceptable i would choose an electric bike as my next ride. i know prices are steep now, but as demand increases and tech advances prices will come down. and i feel that it will happen at a very fast pace. i think a good comparison would be solid state hard drives (USB sticks) and other computer parts. it seems like every month things are either twice as big or twice as fast. i would think the technology for Ebikes will be similar once it becomes more fashionably acceptable to focus on them.
Bentzra says
I have got to think that this is going to be a serious machine. I hope that the competition is good for the TTXGP and I REALLY hope I can see some kind of coverage – even if it’s a one hour thing on Discovery.
I think Jamie Hyneman from Mythbusters is part of the Barefoot group that has a bike in the race – how about him hosting a show?
Jar says
Go man! Go! Is what I say.
The e-bikes make the most sense of all, to me, as a place to begin exploring such a powertrain.
I’m waiting for the day that one looks to such a machine without regard for its “green-ness”, without rationalizing acquisition based on “eco-friendliness”, but rather a consumer is able to select such a product from the myriad of those available based on cost, performance, and task at hand. Simply, that the e-bike rises to the level of performance and cost in every catergory used to measure conventional motorbikes, and is judged equivalent or superior within those catergories.
In short, the day that such a machine “works”, without excuse or compromise, that it is competitive without special rules, consideration, stipulations, or re-classification. When that day comes, well, at a minimum they’ll have the Buell product beat – nach…..
Scott says
Okay, I don’t want to be a downer, but isn’t this a bit of a pile of BS?
I mean having a wheel spin to the equivalent of 120 MPH and actually pushing the weight of that bike in the real world to 120 MPH are two entirely different things . . . aren’t they? Wouldn’t a 1000 lb bike perform exactly the same on this test as a 500 lb bike (with the same engine/motor). And not only is there no mass to push, but there’s no wind resistance.
I still wish them the best, but I just want to point out that I’m skeptical that this test translates to real world numbers.
kneeslider says
Scott, you’re correct, dyno runs are not usually reported as mph, if you look at the video, they’ve blurred the number which shows power output which they obviously want to keep under wraps.
I have a hunch, with a reasonably lightweight rider, this 3 motored (I think) electric will put down some pretty healthy acceleration numbers in the real world, maybe not what the dyno indicates, but pretty stout, nevertheless. We’ll know more very soon.
Scott says
Thanks for the confirmation KS. I wasn’t quite sure and I was a little afraid I might have been missing something.
I can’t wait to see how this race goes. In a way, it’s like the idea you posted a while back of having a completely open racing series. It seems the only restriction on this one is they have to be electric.
Should make for some very interesting racing!
Barilla says
@ Scott
This “rolling road” is usually set to mimic the kind of aerodynamic/tire resistance that tested machine is supposed to deal with. Otherwise there’d be no point in showing it.
This is how you test motor on a dyno to evaluate it’s real life performance.
Cheers
todd says
Dynos measure power output at the wheel, not rate of acceleration. If you know the circumference of the rear tire and the RPM it’s turning at MPH is a simple calculation. As Scott mentioned, it cannot measure how fast the bike would take to reach those speeds since it does not take into account weight of the rider/bike, wind resistance, or available (front wheel down) traction.
Maybe if it had wheelie bars and dumped its rider at the starting line.
-todd
PablodeChaves says
Anybody knows something about the engines and how they are connected between them?
I see that they have changed the rear twin springs for a conventional shock absorber.
The project is really interesting but only the price of the batteries must be higher than a Ducati 1198… We will have to wait to see something like this in the streets.
pabs says
this is very misleading its a wheel with little weight on it spun to a certain rpm translated to 120 mph. i can claim better with a wooden top and piece of string
seriously this measurement is accepted to mean from a standstill to a terminal speed with traction, weight, wind resistance and operator
its the same inflated nonesense that bilked investors out of millions on thier ice motor
better to underpromise and overdeliver than the other way around
regardless i can’t wait to watch this race
please dont edit my post lol its polite and accurate !
Kenny says
@pabs and scott,
I’m not sure if you are partially right or wrong (I’m not particularly knowledgeable about dynos), to calculate rear wheel power you need to know rpm and torque, rpm is easy to calculate especially if you have a rotating drum at the back wheel. With torque you need two bits of information, the distance from the centre of moment(radius of the wheel) and the force acting at that point. Not exactly sure how they get the force figures, but once you have all the data, it’s not exactly rocket science to write a program to take into account the torque, rpm, weight of rider and bike, the limiting friction of tires and pavement, the rolling resistance of two tires, and work out a fluid mechanics equation to approximate the wind resistance and any other factors. It would be one long ass equation and you could work out the speed at any given time to within a reasonable degree of accuracy.
And Kneeslider, keep up the coverage. I think the TTXGP is one of the most exciting things to happen to modern motorcycling, comparable to the early years of ICE racing and development, where everything was new. I wasn’t around for it then and i damn well hope to be a part of it now!
chaz says
As it is now only 22 days until the race, and the the bike is being tested on a dyno vs on the track, I wonder how prepared they –or any other contestant– will be. The technology is developing, the bikes won’t have the same throttle, handling and braking characteristics as gas engine bikes have, reliability is likely to be a problem, and the riders will have little testing time. This could easily be the most unpredictable and crazy race in a very long time. We need to see it!
pabs says
kenny your right they could have done that long @$$ equation but they didn’t !! so its purposefully nonsense and misleading
and props to kneeslider, i don’ see coverage anywhere else really and its absolutely one of the most exciting developements to come down the line, when is it anyways ?
FREEMAN says
Well, they test cars on dynos in a very similar fashion. I don’t see what everyone is crying about. Now I’ll admit that my knowledge of dynos is quite limited, but it certainly looks like they’re running that test not only safely but accurately.
I think the test is quite impressive. I’d like to challenge anybody to produce a similar time to 120 mph wheel speed on that dyno with their own motorcycle and show us their video if they think it’s so easily done. I hope there’s coverage of this race.
WillyP says
Dynometers have been around for a very long time and the technology allows extremely accurate prediction of real world performance. It’s not just a wheel spinning up to speed, it’s a weighted drum or a water brake (or both) being acted upon. In the either case, the inertial characteristics of the load device are part of the equation, and a computer is used to record, calculate and model whatever test parameters are desired.
FeezMo says
It’s about time….we need someone to start paving the way, in success or in failure. If this venture inspires one other person to try something different than it is a success.
Michael says
Nice… but when do they start testing on track?
Also, since going electric, maybe they could start exploring 2wd systems… It has been done using ICE + hydraulics, but having both motors in the hub would be less complicated i suppose. does anyone know how the motor is oriented? Is it like the C1 or sitting across the frame? Thanks
Nicolas says
You get the torque curve from the dyno, knowing the weight of the bike, you can easily compare that to existing bikes and extrapolate the actual performance in an acceptably accurate way, I guess … Friction of the pavement, force of the wind, weight of the rider, we don’t give a @#$% about that, they are the same wether the rider rides a ducati 1198, a GSXR or an E-bike.
At least they prove it’s not just a 3D model, the bike exists and can burn some tire. Keep on keeping on.
Nicolas says
why is there a gas tank (or stuff w/ similar shape) on the electric bike ?
todd says
In the real world you don’t get to strap your front end down to the pavement while accelerating. The point at which a bike wheelies is not a same-for-same factor. Depending on the amount and location of the Co’G (with rider) in relation to the rear axle vs. distance to the contact patch – the rate of acceleration can vary greatly between bikes. Sure, you can model this up but easiest way to figure it out is to do it. They probably already have by now.
-todd
Kenny says
Wow…. all I was trying to say was that there is a good chance that the reported 0-120 time could be pretty accurate.
JSH says
I would say that the controller and other miscellaneous wiring is under the fake tank. Regardless of what powers the motorcycle the rider will still need something to grip with his knees to keep from sliding forward under braking.
Bryan says
They are using a SuperFlow dyno which is inertia based.
http://www.superflow.com/dynamometers/index_826.cfm
The bikes rear wheel accelerates a large mass. This acceleration of this known mass (and the rate of acceleration) is measured and that gives you the RPM/Torque/Speed/Power curves. This has NOTHING to do with how fast the bike will accelerate, so saying that it achieved 0-120mph in less than 11 seconds is a meaningless number. Implying that the motorcycle will perform this way and posting it on their website further reduces the credibility of the company for the sake of some bad marketing hype.
Inaccurate claims like this are hurting the electric vehicle industry and these guys are not helping.
Nicolas says
RPM/Torque/Speed/Power has nothing to do with the bike acceleration … ?
It doesn’t give directly an equation where the nerdy engineer/scientist can put data and get a result, but once again noce you know the torque, power curve and the weight of the bike, a pretty realistic estimate can be extrpolate from existing bikes (I know, not the same CoG, blah blah, sorry it’s not 100% accurate).
They don’t do inacurrate claim that hurt the overall industry, they use the word “estimate”, read above.
Keep on keeping on, Motoczsyszchsic !
rohorn says
Once again, the “doers” get trashed on The Kneeslider by the ignorant. What does that say about the techinical literacy of motorcyclists, especially some self proclaimed “engineers” here who need to comment on everything?
Hey Bryan, thanks for the shortcut – here’s an important one you missed while misleading people:
http://www.superflow.com/dynamometers/index_1122.cfm
It is brutally obvious that the vast majority of you “experts” know NOTHING about more advanced dynos than the ones seen in the back of dealers, etc… Or how they are used for R&D.
I have no connection with these guys, but I think it would be safe to guess that they have enough datalogging info from the C1 to make a very accurate drag model. And if you are developing a racer, it is a whole lot more safe & effective to do this on a dyno rather than hauling it to the track and/or the street outside the shop.
Some of you keyboard riders really need to do some research before posting for a change.
FREEMAN says
@ rohorn:
Check this out http://thekneeslider.com/images/2009/05/motoczysz-e1.jpg
This is from the earlier post and that white box the guy in the background on the cellphone is standing on looks like your power absorber you linked to. Good eye, rohorn.
OMMAG says
Call me a cynic and you’ll be right!
The point … why not report the power/torque figures?
They should be bragging points for the Motoczysz… No?
Ben Fox says
The czysz dyno does have a load cell on it. It is an “eddy current” dyno.
Certain test parameters can be set up, PIDS, for test conditions of how fast the roller is allowed to spin up or to simulate loaded conditions and wind drag etc….
You can set the roller to hold a constant speed say 35mph and then twist the throttle wide open, and the roller wont go any faster than 35 mph.
You can also set up a test where you dictate the amount of time that the roller will accelerate, so lets say you have a bike that on the street will accelerate from 30-100mph in 6 seconds, you can set up a test where you sit there and hold the throttle wide open, the bike will go no faster than 30 mph and the roller will only be allowed to spin up fast enough to fall within that 6 second range, and at the end of 6 seconds you can see what MPH the bike is doing to compare to other data.
Come on guys. Motoczysz is a multimillion dollar corporation, do you honestly think they be doing testing on an “inertia” only dyno? Superflow makes the best “engineering” dyno’s (read, not just a HP # like a dynojet) in the world. Superflow equipment is sought after by the largest of manufactures and race teams.
If any of you think you can challenge czysz and do better or tell them where they are going wrong with their equipment, then I’ll personally pay for your plane ticket to Colorado Springs, (where, I live) and get you a days tour of the Superflow Dyno manufacturing facility(which happens to be right here in Colorado Springs, and I happen to know alot of the people working there) and you can have a meeting with some of the superflow engineers.
The mere fact that czysz is pouring his “own” money in this thing gives him “bragging rights”. Given the economy, Im amazed he’d go to that effort and I honestly worry the guy might put himself in the poorhouse because I personally know how dedicated he is. I was a little skeptical in the past but he’s proven he’ll be there in the long run through hell and high water, even if it’s his own money.
Ben Fox
todd says
Will this fancy dyno tell you when the bike will wheelie (or spin the rear tire)? I think not. That was the point of my argument. I guess I need to put it in the first sentence since that’s all some people seem to read.
-todd
ROHORN says
No testing, modeling, or simulation needed: Todd, if you know that a bike with similar weight, geometry, tires, and configuration will do a 1/4 mile in 1-2 seconds less and 10-20mph more (and there are such bikes, including the C1, right?), then there are no points to any of your sentences, other than to indicate a dire need for some education on the subject. Please.
Just how hard can this stuff be to figure out?
Bryan says
You certainly could setup the dyno to get real-world results, and you could take the results of the test, run it through some software and get some valid curves, but we have seen no evidence of that. All we have seen is one fuzzy number and one clear number on a digital readout “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” right?
The test hardly seems objective when they claim they could have done better if they twisted the throttle faster. How can you do do a valid test when you can’t even get the first thing required correct: control the input. This is voodoo engineering.
I want to believe (like Mulder in the X Files) that they are building a bike that can compete with ICE bikes, but I haven’t seen it yet.
Ben fox says
They’re not building a bike to compete with the ICE.
Do you even know what the TTXGP is?
Might want to google it.
There are many other companies building electric bikes right now as well. And you have to view all of them in competition with each other. Not with ICE manufactures like Honda or Suzuki.
WTF. Someone trys to build something that “good” to the evvironment and you guys want to tear it down. It doesn’t mean we all have to turn in our gas powered cars and bikes next week.
pabs says
mr kneeslider seeing as your bloggers are getting testy why not ask moto c ? exactly how their test was conducted