The Kneeslider

Doers Builders and Positive People

Kick Starting in the Fuel Injected Age

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A beautiful kick starter on the Nortley FartsterMechanical nostalgia is a powerful force, if you love old machinery of most any type, you know what I mean. Just looking at it, gazing at the wheels, gears, levers, gauges and even the materials and methods of construction can bring a smile to your face, it certainly does to me, however, there’s a point when nostalgia can interfere with judgment concerning anything new, if the new doesn’t stir the same emotion for lack of features no longer necessary, it must be wrong.

Case in point, the kick starter. Our recent article about the new Royal Enfield Classic C5, shows a motorcycle styled like a 1951 British single but without a kick starter. No bike of the day would have arrived without one but here we are, it’s 2009, and a number of comments point out the missing kick lever as a serious omission. Is it?

Royal Enfield, like any other manufacturer, is trying to expand their market while meeting current emission laws, the new fuel injected engines address those laws and the new transmission is aimed at making the outcome of gear selection something other than a game of chance. (Shifting the old Bullets requires … patience) It’s a nice change that gives the new owner the old look in a new and reliable bike. A side effect of the new fuel injected engines is the ease of starting that does away with the need for old kicking skills and turns it into a push button affair anyone can master.

Since few riders of electric start equipped motorcycles revert to kicking unless pressed and the reliability of motorcycle engines today makes the necessity somewhere close to zero, the kick lever moves ever closer to the visual and emotional appeal of all of the other gears and levers found on old machinery. It may be fun to show others you know how to kick start your bike, having the kick lever there might complete the bike visually in your mind, you may feel reassured that if the battery ever fails you, you can still kick away, but the argument that it’s necessary is hard to make.

There is no shortage of old motorcycles for sale with kick starters, or foot clutches and hand shifters for that matter, and they’re cool. If the new RE wants to compete with old used motorcycles, a kick lever is probably necessary, but, at least in this case, they seem to be aiming at attracting a new generation that might like the look but have no more skill at kick starting than the average teenager has with a manual transmission in a car. The kick start connoisseurs out there may find it harder to satisfy their mechanical desires going forward. Next thing you know, they’ll start installing automatic tranmissions, … hey, wait a minute.

Comments

  1. It takes skill to kick start a bike?

    I’d never had a bike with a kick starter until recently when I bought a dirt bike for my step son. Don’t see how there’s any special skill involved.

    I liked the article. And IMHO I don’t feel that the lack of a kick start lever detracts from the nostalgic appeal. There are many bikes that I would like to see brought into the current century with as few changes cosmetically as possible.

  2. If you like kick starters, try a bike with TWO of them! They engage the rider far more than any kickstart thumper. They have a lever on each side of the bike – just push down on each pedal to get going. Some people call them “bicycles”. They are very simple machines.

    Howe many people here drive cars with hand crank starters?

    What’s next, the charm of acetylene headlamps?

    Trying to stay positive here, really, I am………..

  3. I grew up working on a 57 and mid 60’s (I can’t remember the specific date on that one) Harley Sportsters with my father, both of which were kick starts. When everything worked right he could start either with one or two kicks. When things weren’t working right it made for a miserable 5 minutes. I tried to kick start one and I could never quite get it right. One of my goals is to go back there and keep trying until I get it down right.

    However on my actual ride anywhere do everything motorcycle I’m so very glad to have fuel injection and a push button start. When you start out you’re going to stall and having that push button made it a lot easier to learn. If I had to pull over and kick start every time I stalled when I first started riding I’d either have gotten very good very quickly or I’d have given up.

  4. taxman: There’s a bit of a difference in kick starting a 125CC dirt bike engine and a 1200 V-twin engine.

  5. It all depends on what you are kickin’. A 125cc two stroke isn’t a big deal. A 650cc four stroke is a big deal. There’s a point or a reality where the weight penalty of a starter and battery are well justified.

    Try kickin’ a big four stroke single on a slope or with muddy boots and the thought of an electric starter isn’t such a big idea. Another consideration is a leg injury. If your kickin’ leg gets injured then things get very interesting.

  6. I ride a 1975 honda cafe racer every day to work, the kick start works pretty well even when the bike is cold, there is no special skill required, it cranks up my bike even when the damn battery is dead, it’s part of the fun, and I wouldn’t ride this type of bike with no kick start.

    Now, when I miserabily stall the bike at the green light in this slightly climbing road at rush hour, with all the cars pushing behind me, I wish my electric start would be as reliable as the modern bikes to save me the embarassment … 😉

  7. kickstarters aren’t just vestigial or antiquated features. They’re lighter than electric, and on a smaller displacement bike are hardly any trouble at all – a “new generation” with no skill (as if any is required) at kick-starting? Are you joking? Have you ever been to a motocross track? Motorcycles aren’t generally about NEED and convenience, they’re about WANT, involvement, and desire. I think kickstarters are a perfectly legitimate request for a RE type of bike.

  8. In the UK there are basically two Royal Enfield models available now. The Electra EFI has a kickstart which uses the new fuel injected motor housed in the older frame. The new Classic with the solo seat does away with the kickstart altogether. This model also has more detailed engine covers and rocker box cover than the Electra EFI. Personally I would have put the kickstart on the Classic simply for the look of the motor.

  10. oregonlocal: If the engine was stock you’d be right but it was bored out to a larger displacement. I think it was probably closer to 1100cc now that I think about it. My father’s a machinist so everything on those bikes is tweaked somewhat. He made his own plate adaptor thing so he could run two magnetos and two sets of spark plugs on the mid 60’s one. He drew up blue prints for his own custom headers with the hole for a second set of spark plugs.

  11. I had a permanent bruise on my leg from a particularly aggressive kickstart. I don’t really miss that, or trying to start the blighter with muddy/slippery boots!

  12. “It takes skill to kick start a bike?”
    I rather think it does. try kicking over a 250cc stalled dirt bike with a seized decompresser, unless you know what your doing it will lash back like a mule. Bigger bikes would break your ankle.
    And the older the bike the more complicated the starting procedure.gets.

  13. “Howe many people here drive cars with hand crank starters?”

    If you reason along those lines, why would you even bother riding a motorcycle? If you have a car why ride is what that implies. When They perfect the Star Trek Transporter why would anyone ever bother riding or drive a car again?

    There’s a certain level of attachment to the ride or the journey. Every step that it takes to initiate a ride involves the rider. As those step are removed the involvement is diminished. Why do you think car drivers are so bad at noticing their surroundings? They are driving fully automated, climate controlled, environment-isolated cages. The less involvement there is with the vehicle, the more involvement there is with the mind (or the cell phone).

    I like cars with manual everything; windows, locks, transmission, seats, whatever. The heater doesn’t work in my truck (1958 VW pickup). When it’s cold outside, I’m cold – I wear a jacket and a cap. It’s very easy to fix but I could care less. When it’s warm I slide open the window. Same goes for my bikes; kick start, no heater or AC, manual transmission, etc. I definitely involve myself more with the experience of the vehicle and the journey. It allows me to climb out of my head and removes me from my comfort zone; it requires sacrifice and hardship. I wouldn’t change that for anything.

    -todd

  14. I think the real question is whether a street bike with a kickstarter would sell suffciently well to justify producing one. You do need an electric start one since too many wouldn’t buy it without one. So, how hard/expensive is it to produce a second model?

    I have a 2005 Sportster wiht a carb but the newer ones are fuel injected. I know many folks who complain about not having a carbed bike, but I think most new buyers prefer the FI version. It all comes down to the what the majority of the buyers want.

  15. I remember the collective gasp when the Laverda 750 SF was introduced in, I think, 1971, with no kick starter. This was at a time when even Honda used the belt-and-suspenders approach on the world-beating 750 four. If Honda felt it needed a kick starter to back up the electric starter, who was Laverda — a bike with Italian electrics! — to think it could get away without one? Of course, the Yamaha XS 650 I bought that year came only with a kick start. No problem; it fired up on the first kick every time. But I can’t say I miss the ritual. Welcome to the age of electricity, Royal Enfield.

  16. My first bike was a 1979 XS650 Special. I bought the thing for 400 dollars from some dummy that never took care of it. I bought it to learn how to ride and also to learn how to fall on a motorcycle. The battery was always dead and I had to kickstart it two to five times to get it running… every time. I came very close to falling over on that thing many times while trying to kickstart it. I used to ride a 2001 Gas Gas trials bike for fun. No electric starter. Had to be kickstarted every time. You had to lean over the handle bars and kick the starter to the rear… much like a kicking horse… in order to get it started. It was an extremely hard bike to start. If I didn’t do it right, the kickstart level would lash right back into my leg or launch my light butt off the bike. I would have to agree that on certain bikes, it does take a bit of experience and or patience to kickstart them.

  17. Years back, I had a BSA “Alloy Clipper.” Since no one knows what that was, it was a 500cc Gold Star, small head & barrel engine mounted in a trials frame. Spark was from a magneto. Petroleum jelly meant that it would “usually” start after being dumped in a creek.

    Anyway, a bunch of us came out of a cafe to find some little punk trying to steal my bike. He didn’t know about retarding the spark or decompression thingys …. He took a mighty heave on the lever, straight legged, of course, which, halfway down, went back up and pitched him face first onto the pavement. Oh, it was delightful to watch. But a very funny thing happened …. before he could get to his feet, he somehow got a few boot-marks in the groin ….. Of course, those were the days when the attending cops made “on the spot” assessments and decided that he must have fallen on someone’s boot.

    But yes, it did take a bit of skill to start that old beast ….

  19. i was impressed by the RE. but was let down that there was no kicker….it adds a certaint character to a motorcycle….perhapps there is a kick start kit out there for some modern HD and such…?

  20. Being a gen X or Y(I am not sure, every article I have read gives a different age range!), the only bikes I have kick started were sub 250cc trail bikes I rode as a youngster. In fact I only remember my father kick starting a road bike once when I was very young, it was to start his belt and braces BMW r75/5 for a trip to get a new battery.In my 13 years of road licensed riding I have never ridden a bike that was equipped with a kick start (I have driven cars equipped with cranks though, but that’s another story.) and I would probably do myself an injury if I were to try and start a large displacement bike with a kicker.

    The Idea of no kick starter has no effect on a purchasing decision for me, but no electric start certainly does.

  21. …continuing; I would buy the new Enfield if I had the spare dosh as it is a traditional continually produced bike not a done up retro like some others (some of those bikes are quite nice too though), these modern conveniences are welcome for a day to day bike, if you want an enfield with drum brakes and a kick starter buy a vintage or second hand one, it is probably cheaper!

    An old school bike would be great to own but with only one spot in the garage I would not want to have to deal with the “charming quirks” this entails on a day to day basis. When I win lotto on the other hand…

  22. anyone using tales of their beastly OLD 3000cc magneto bike, or ones with a “seized decompresser”, or doing it on a hill in the mud, is telling a nice but irrelevant story. Modern, low-displacement, in-working-order engines can be easy to kickstart, no special tough-guy skills required. SteveD hit the nail on the head, and the answer is, it’s not very hard at all.

  25. Todd,

    You would probably have loved my old VW 181, aka Thing. I sure did. It spent the summers with no top at all. Heck, it even had a phony hand crank slot in the rear bumper. The windows didn’t wind down; you just yanked them out and threw them in the back seat. While I owned it, I also had an RZ350 – the RZ was the one that went on all the trips away from the local area (The bike was far more comfortable) – and it was a kick start. Any idiot can kickstart a 2 stroke. But like 2 strokes, window curtains and kickstarters belong in another era I’ve lost desire to tolerate.

    It seems that every generation has some that find charm in the previous generation of technology, but never any further back than that. I’ve worked on – and kickstarted – enough Panheads and Flatheads to know which direction to twist the LEFT grip – or – twist the spring loaded distributor. I don’t know anyone who misses manual spark advance. It does involve rider skill, but nobody can see it from the curb – and I’m convinced that kickstarting is, especially among the cafe crowd (sic), so much curbside theatrics AKA posing, which is, I’m told, a bad thing, unless they are doing it.

    Do some reading on very early motorcycling and you will find that there were single speed motorcycle clubs – they looked down their noses at the pointless complexity of, gasp, transmissions!!! Ever hear anybody lament the demise of total loss oil systems? Now that is rider involvement and curbside theater! Dump that sump! Light the headlamp after doing that carbide pellet thing! Adjust the oil drip feed! Retard that ignition while rolling on the throttle to leave the curb! What’s the matter, you can’t handle that level of involvement?

    An awful lot of companies realized many decades ago that kickstarters are an admission that their starting system isn’t dependable and that they really don’t want to sell a whole lot of bikes. But if that is what both the company and a few dozen clients want, hey, great! I have nothing against a few dozen people getting what they want. But is no company will ever sell a new bike that makes all or even any of the retrobates happy.

    In the mean time, Walnecks, Craigslist, eBay, etc.. have a far larger selection of Real Old Bikes ™ to choose from – no company is even remotely interested in competing with that at the mass production level. There is a good reason why even perfectly good CB750/XS650/etc oldies go for far less than anything you can buy new – and they still have electric starts. The kickstart singles from the same era sell for even less. Even early KTM Dukes (no E-starts) sell for a lot less than the newer ones.

  26. The scars on my leg say electric start might be a good idea. I Ride an XS650 with its miserable starter system.

  27. I have a ’78 KZ1000 that is about the easiest bike to kickstart in the world. I usually just tap the button, but I appreciate having the option. . . . especially if my battery is dead.

  28. Has anyone realised that without battery power the kickstart won’t work anyway?
    A fuel-injected bike needs plenty of electricity to supply the fuel, and a kickstarter
    doesn’t generate enough power for that. So why have a kickstarter that
    doesn’t even work?

  29. I always loved kick starting my older bikes, and have the crunchy knee to prove it! Turn on the petcock, twist the throttle a couple of times, give ‘er a slow dead kick, turn on the key, and kick ‘er again and listen to that lovely loping v-twin. Or vertical twin. Or thumper. Except when you’re on a date. Ah yes, the little lovely smirking at you, while you are stomping on the damn thing…..

  31. Ace,
    You hit upon another reason that kickstarters are no longer the norm. Not one person has mentioned trying to fit a kick starter to say a duc 1198 or a kawa zx-6r. The reason, now correct me if i’m wrong, but none of the bikes mentioned had a 13:1 comprssion ratio like modern supersport. For comparison a Norton commando 750cc had 10:1 ratio and these bikes were renowned for their difficulty to kickstart, so much so that Norton introduced an electric assist start system. I imagine if you tried to kickstart a modern sports bike you’d find yourself thrown over the nearest building

  32. Okay, several folks have posted this but it doesn’t seem to be sinking in:

    SOME FUEL INJECTED ROYAL ENFIELD MODELS HAVE KICK STARTS.

    BTW, Yamaha’s fuel injected C3, which has been on sale in the USA for several years now, has a kick start. Where’s the fire? There’s nothing to see here folks; move along.

    Oh, and also, electronic fuel injected machines can be engineered to kick with dead flat batteries. Honda pioneered this years ago.

  33. I remember the collective gasp when the Laverda 750 SF was introduced in, I think, 1971, with no kick starter.”

    Ted, the gasp was the idea of trusting Italian electrics to work consistently.

  34. The Laverda was a superior bike to the 750 Honda in every way except sales. The Honda was a fad bike that was highly overrated and very cheap for its size, thus very popular. The Triumph and Kow triples were faster and lighter, the Laverda was more reliable The Honda was priced low and easily accessable to the common man, but it was a truck.

  35. If I remember correctly, Honda’s original Goldwing, the GL1000, came with a kickstarter assembly that was stored elsewhere on the bike when not in use.

  37. A shift to Hot Tube ignition, would save the expense and weight of those complicated and expensive spark plugs, with their weird wires and mysterious ‘black boxes’. A constant fuel drip onto a waste cotton wad would eliminate that pesky fuel injection system. Solid rubber tires are also cool. (No flats or bothersome air checks and filling). Mechanical linkages are the way to go to eliminate those nightmarish cable adjustments. Come to think of it, why do we even need a kick-starter. Just run it down a hill, and jump on. RideSafe, Mark.

  38. i had a first year honda gl1000 and it did not have a kickstarter at all. i sold it to my father who then has sold it to my father in law (soon to be). so if i need to go double check i can. one thing it did have was points. and boy was that a pain. i’m glad i no longer feel the need to carry spare parts when i go for a ride so that if needed i can fix it to get home.

    i guess for some people a kickstarter adds flavor to the experience. not for me.

  39. When one of my friends got a new Bonnie, I asked him why he doesn’t kick start it, and he told me that it didn’t come with a kick starter. I mock-scoffed and said I wouldn’t own a bike without a kick starter.

    Of course, then I went and bought a Buell, haha.

  40. If I remember correctly, there’s a simple mod for the Kawi W650 which allows the real purist to remove the electric starter,leaving only the kickstart…

  41. It’s interesting to see which Kneeslider articles get the most posts.

    This kickstart discussion is, I think, related to the broader high-tech vs low-tech debate.

    I don’t mind high tech if it is reliable and affordable; my 1992 car is fuel injected, has 295,000 kms on it an is still going strong, so that’s cool. But a friend had a fuel pump failure on his TL1000 Suzuki and the dealer quoted him $1100 (yes, eleven hundred dollars (Canadian)) for a new one. Carb’d bikes use gravity to get the gas to the float bowls and I can still get all the free gravity I need by standing directly above the center of the earth.

    What I don’t like about some high tech stuff is that I can’t fix it myself and so when I buy a bike or car with fuel injection and a computer-controled engine management system I have to surrender a certain amount of independence.

    On a positive note, Kawasaki’s 2009 KX450F is kick-only and has no battery; enough juice is generated by kicking, to get the fuel injection and spark giong. The best of both worlds, I’d say.

    I’d be happy to own a new Royal Enfield sans kickstarter. I wouldn’t even mind if the battery died. I’d just do the run-and-bump thing. Side-saddle, of course. Soooo Cool.

  42. A lot of different views on this subject in here. Well heres mine,an old school T-shirt say’s you ain’t a biker unless you limp.Seen more than my share of guys launched over the handlebars of a bike. A majority of the kickers their refering to is the old magento ignition type in witch you don’t have a battery. Timing ,choke, and fuel needle valve have to be set pretty close ,or you end up with a sore leg.Most new big bikes, when I say big I mean more then 1200 cc won’t have a kicker simply for the fact you’ld have to be a 300lb. football player to kick it hell some of these new customs with 125 ci. or more have compression releases to help the electrics start them. I started on a 650 with a kicker and used it when the battery didn’t have enough. And I ‘ve had to push start kickerless one’s and it’s a bitch.

  43. I broadly agree with the comment above, I had some hand in starting this debate although I know that gives me no authority I just want to make it clear when I complained about the lack of a kickstart I was referring to a low compression 412 pounds, 27 hp bike styled to look like a fifties bike fitted with (with the greatest respect) Indian electrics. Which if I remember my logarithmic scale of electric stereotypes correctly makes them 100 times better than italian electrics, 10 times better than British electrics, 10 times worse than German Electrics and 100 times worst than Honda. I wouldn’t advocate sticking kickstarts on all new bikes I just think that the kind of person who would buy an even more retro styled Enfield might like the lever on the side of it especially when it seems to be on every other bike with this engine along with the electric boot. Yes lots of us have moved on to high compression and or high capacity bikes which would be difficult and dangerous to kick start but I don’t think people buying Enfeilds are doing it with many concerns about engineering excellence I suspect most want the look of a classic and the experience of a classic without trying to work backwards through 50 years of other peoples bodges, good enoughs, that will dos, running repairs and interminable afternoons at autojumbles failing to find the crucial cast bit that you just cant machine up yourself. I also think that for the extra weight they add to a bike as long as that bike is suitable for them i.e. not too difficult or dangerous I would want one if I was buying. I have a 1983 K100 without a kick-start that I have once or twice had to bump start and it wasn’t fun, I also have a small commuter bike with a kick start and which frequently needs kicking if it has stood for any leangth of time I appreciate the kick start on that just as I would on a endurance bike, on a battery less lightweight special or as part of a classic bike experience. Besides the kick start is there to remind us that riding in flip flops is unwise.

  45. I think they should make the bike with a kickstarter as an option seeing as most Enfield buyers are into the nostalgic retro image of the bike. A small crome cover over the shaft could be removed and a kick starter lever fitted for those that like the look and backup.I know modern bikes have reliable electrics but when I venture on remote outback tracks on my BMW1150GS I would love to have the backup and piece of mind of a kickstart,especialy one that can be carried in the toolkit as a slip on emergancy fit. A low battery in an isolated remote location can be life threatening.

  46. I would love the option.. saves me from having to push the bike down a hill when that crappy battery wont start in the cold. My wife’s Hondamatic has a quite pleasant kick start, and will start with no battery in the bike. (no choke either… that thing just runs.)

  47. Garage queens don’t need a kicker, but a commuter isn’t legit if it doesn’t go when you need it, and in the worst conditions.

  48. I ride a CB750K2 and have a kickstart. It is probably the most fun I have on a motorcycle when I’m not moving. It adds to the nostalgia and for the most part it is pretty functional. Like I’ve read above, the only time it is a real issue is when the bike stalls out in traffic and you have to kick like a madman.

  49. how’s this? a knockoff of a honda engine, with option for kick, electric, or pull start. cvt. the on sale engine i’m looking at, has pull start, if i want kick, i can design the frame with one to pull the cord. so, i certainly don’t need a kick start on any bike i own, though my first started way easier on kick.