Indian Motorcycle Company has announced plans to set up shop in Kings Mountain, North Carolina. This attempt to restart the brand under the current ownership of Stellican Limited of London will be difficult as so many resurrections are. The company is counting on the strong Indian brand name to give the company the extra edge necessary, combining it with a well designed and well engineered product.
There is a considerable consumer base for a premium line of motorcycles under the Indian Motorcycle brand, which has an almost cult-like status amongst many consumers.
I wonder if that’s true. There are some riders, well up in years, who have a reverence for Indian based on first hand experience, however, those riders are few and far between. Younger riders, and I would classify that as anyone under 60, have limited experience with the brand except as a well known marque from the past. Having the opportunity to buy an original, restored and brought back to life, would be a treat. But does that affection extend to a brand new Indian? Under new ownership and with brand new motorcycles, what is the connection to those originals except for names like Indian Chief and copies of those beautiful fenders?
Somewhere along the line I think motorcycle buyers develop “resurrection fatigue.” One more company buys a trademark from the past, extolls the virtues and colorful history of the brand and a new motorcycle is built, figuring they will repeat history, after all, it was popular before, why not now? It’s an exciting idea, and swept up in the emotion of bringing back the brand they love, the idea gets a life of its own. From the builder’s view, it’s all about their brand which dominates their thoughts, but from the buyer’s view, it’s one more old brand trying to restart vying for their attention along with all of the current and new motorcycle companies out there now. Unless the restart is truly extraordinary, buyers might step back, wait and see.
Over in the automotive world, there was a recent announcement that MG was coming back to the U.S. Words like “the beloved MG returns” were used to describe this resurrection. But “the beloved MG” that most of us remember was the British sports car from the fifties through early seventies. This returning MG is a Chinese company building brand new MGs in several locations, among them both China and Oklahoma. To me, and probably many others who remember and love the old MG, these new MGs hold zero appeal. I wish them much luck and I hope they do well but if the “beloved MG” idea is a major component of their marketing plan, they’ve got a problem. And I wonder if Indian is going to encounter the same disconnect between idea and product.
Motorcycles, perhaps even more than cars because they are less necessary, are an emotional purchase. Getting the emotions right can make or break a brand. How many buyers have the emotional attachment to Indian the company is counting on? I have no idea and most likely, neither does anyone else. Perhaps the question the company needs to ask is, “Will these motorcycles stand on their own without any emotional attachment to the past?” Will Indian be able to attract brand new buyers who never had any exposure to the originals? If you’re restarting an old brand, I would think that’s a big issue because the number of consumers who hold Indian in a “cult-like status” is most likely small. After that, you’ve got some selling to do, but then, maybe lightning does strike twice.
Link: Indian Motorcycles and press release (pdf)
The Kneeslider: Motorcycle Companies Reborn
The Kneeslider: Indian Motorcycles for sale
Spicciani says
Wasn’t Triumph in a similar situation; a company that would be best described as nostalgic coming into a modern market and finding a niche for its self.
kneeslider says
I added a link above to an earlier post where I specifically address Triumph in one of the comments. Indian has been long dead, except for a recent brief restart, Triumph was only out of business a short while. Triumph had many current owners, riders and supporters, while Indian has almost none except for a few collectors and restorers.
As I mentioned in my comment on that earlier post, Triumph has probably been responsible for many of these other attempts to bring back a dead company, ignoring the differences that made Triumph’s rebirth, while still a great comeback story, slightly less risky.
mark says
Have any resurrected companies besides Triumph actually survived? Because I can’t think of any.
And I don’t think Triumph is a very good comparison — the company was out of business for less than ten years before it was resurrected. The old Meriden-based company folded in 1983, John Bloor bought the brand, and by 1990 the new Hinckley-based company had entirely new bike models. What’s more, Bloor is a shrewd businessman and didn’t try to overstep his new company’s abilities. The first bikes they put out were modular in design, so by changing a few pieces, they could leverage the same engine and major components to create several different models. The economies this introduced in manufacturing allowed the company to produce bikes efficiently and cost-effectively. Once the company was back on firm ground in the mid-’90s, they were able to re-enter the US market, bring out more models that departed from the modular design, and grow the business further.
The other thing is that Triumph makes a full range of bike styles. They don’t limit themselves to a particular niche. And their bikes are competitively priced; in some cases, they’re even exceptional values.
It would be nice to see the Indian brand revived in the same way Triumph was, but I’m very skeptical it’ll ever happen. The Indian brand is too much like Harley-Davidson — that is to say, associated with classic cruisers. Harley-Davidson is stuck in the position of being unable to bring out any bike that’s sportier than the V-Rod because its customer base wouldn’t accept it; I expect that Indian will be in very much the same position, so in order to distinguish their new bikes, they’ll need to try to make them more stylish or more technologically sophisticated (like Victory has done). Keeping the prices down would help too.
RATTSBIKES says
Well I am from the old school, I guess? I never had an Indian, but my Uncle did, and I had quite a few rides on it out at our farm in Alberta, Canada. I think it was an Indian Chief or maybe the little Scout, again not sure, it was a very long time ago. (40yrs).I myself have been into bikes since then from HD to Triumph, Norton, Honda, Kawasaki, and even a Matchless 500 twin.
So I guess you could say I have had a rounding out with lots of different bikes. I was glad when Triumph came back into the fold, but like above it had only been out of business for ten years or so. As fro when Indian made thier first come back well, they were nothing but (S&S) motors, with HD tranny’s and frames wrapped up in tin that looked somewhat like the older Indian models. Yes they were newer in thier technology, but hell they were not an Indian?
Do A bit os google searching and you will find Kiwi Indian, this guy has the real stuff but engineered to todays metalurgical tollorances, and quite a few improvements on the older designs. But you get a REAL INDIAN, in my opinion.
Here is the link to his web page I hope it works.
http://www.kiwi-indian.com/
Rats Bikes
stacey says
I’m a younger guy (38) and I bought a Kawasaki Drifter because I couldn’t afford a Gilroy Indian. (‘sides, they look a little better, IMHO). I love my bike, I wish I could have the real thing. There’s an elegance, a beauty that the old Indians have that (to me, anyway) H-D don’t.
I’ve been following Stellican’s progress over the last couple of years and I think they deserve a shot. They brought back Chris Craft and other legacy brands and since they’re a privately held investors group, they’ll be careful not to burn through their money foolishly.
You are correct about one part of a ‘revival’ and that’s the weight of the past being a drag on ‘progress’. For me, it wouldn’t be interesting for the new Indian to merely wrap the old look around new tech. But as I understand it, the old Indian was rather innovative in a lot of ways (e.g. the in-line four) and if they can follow Triumph’s example in establishing a solid product, then carrying on with interesting new ones (and keep it all affordable), they could succeed!
I don’t think having more options is a bad thing. I want to stand away from the pack. I believe that one’s choices in music, clothes, drink and ride are all reflections of one’s individuality. If the new Indian can appeal to that, it’s on!
zipidachimp says
triumph came back with bikes that DID NOT relate to the old models. the new ‘old models’ were put on the market after they proved they could compete alongside the japanese with triples instead of fours etc. that was the smart way to come back.
if the new ‘norton’ had succeeded initially, they would be back in bankruptcy after the novelty wore off, unless they came out with different models.
being a niche manufacturer is not easy. the niche has a finite market, after it’s filled, what do you do next?
someone just bought the ‘matchless’ brand. how big a market is there for singles?
once you fill the pipeline with ‘indians’, what do you do for an encore?
Larry Kahn says
Try bringing your Gilroy “Indian” to a vintage (real) Indian meet and see how much respect it gets. Can you guess? On a cosmic level, the Indian name was used in 1901 as a sign of respect to Native Americans. Using the name on a Harley clone thing can’t hold up because of the lack of respect to anything. At least the attempt by Mr. Dreer of reviving the Norton name was done on a project of great efforts and was a new machine with the basic attributes of the old Commando. Had the Norton line continued with progressive upgrades it may have evolved into the machine he has designed. BTW, I ride a ’48 Chief just to keep the current Harley sissies quiet. Works well. And I’m faster than many of them too. Hey, GREAT website you have.
wigman says
Many outfits have tried to ressurect the Indian name but without much success. While it’s true about a cult like following, most riders who have ever had original Indians are no more. The mystique however, lives on and I would like to see a successful return of the real thing. I was impressed with the “Indian” 100 inch engine. They were starting to make advances unique to the name. Before Gilroy became the winner in the Indian “race’, there was a Canadian outfit that had designed a nice looking Indian that was very impressive. It looked like a flathead but was a modern engine. It had many original Indian features such as the rear axle slung between upper and lower shocks. I’d have bought one of those. Maybe Stellican Ltd. can get up with those designers and come up with a winner. Indians forever.
dave says
We were talking today about this, and the subject of the Gilroy Indians being CMC’s with fancy sheet-metal called Indians…
At least they tried to get their own motor off the ground, but they ended up just like so many other “American Others”.
Then we said “What if Indian never died in the first place?” What do you think the Harley’s and Indians of today would look like? Think about that… If H-D had to compete against another big American company, how would that have changed the accepted “American” motorcycle? Big-Bore V-Twins on sport chassis? They would be racing, and fighting for street-credibility. VR1000’s and the like would be the bikes that would be pushed to the forefront. Both companies would be forced to fight the Japanese.
I think that the new Indian should focus on this thought, much the same way Triumph has. Why is Triumph successful now? Because they created NEW motorcycles, and pushed the boundaries of what Triumph was… Now they can offer ‘Retro-Inspired’ motorcycles to recapture the heyday of the company. Personally, I looked at the ‘new’ Indian website, and was dissappointed. They’re just Gilroy Indians. The same, bland, souless bikes they tried to sell the masses just a few short years ago. Customized Harley Clones. Indian should be better than that. It should be a Great American Marque. Not just an “American Other”.
Dudel says
A better comparison is Excelsior-Henderson. There is obviously some demand for an American-made retro-cruiser but this really amounts to nibbling away at Harley’s market share. I understand some of the designers of defunct Excelsior-Henderson are working for Victory. Great plan Polaris; rather than positioning yourself as a real motorcycle company you are going the ‘nibble at Harley’ route.
Note to Polaris – my completely lay advice is build a fleet of fun, punky, wild, macho-styled bikes in the 500 to 900 range with the auto-tranny from your AVTs and promote them to the ATV consumer segment (put your ATV designers on this task and get rid of the E-H guys). This would bust open a whole new market. By the way, you are on the right track with the Vision but it needs a front sport-bike fairing.
Note to Triumph – I like the Bonneville but decided not to buy it because it is carb’ed and not enough HP for the weight. When VW decided to create a ‘modern classic’ of the Beattle they didn’t use the original air-cooled engine and flat windshield.
Willie Schmitz says
Good luck to them. Hopefully they’ll generate enough income to last for a while. Be nice to see something a little sportier then the skirted fender cruisers.
WALT BAUER says
Dear Kneeslider,Here we go again with another companay that will take yet another wack at riding the coat tail name of the Smartest Machine ever built,THE INDIAN MOTOCYCLE.They’ll buy prefabed frames,aftermarket wirering harness,Hardlyableson knock off motors like 130″ S&S V Twins,or some other monsterous Frankenstine Monster shoehorned into an a abortion,with the unmistakeable front and rear fenders.Kawasaki’s Driffer 1500cc & 800cc (made from 1999 to 2006)are so far the best clone,with modern updates since the close of the Springfield MA. plant.The Drifters greatest asset being the push botton starter,for us older farts.If you want to see the history of the 1901 to 1953,Stop by Bob’s Indian/Honda in Etters,Pa.They have 10’s of thousands of parts,and the owner Bob has forgotten more the anyone could ever begin to know about the REAL INDIAN MOTOCYCLE.Bob and his son Robin are always willing to helpsome one doing a totale rebuild,to what size plugs to use.Then there’s the west coast GOD to me,A Kiwi transplant.Who can build or sell you not just 1 but 2 type of Bikes,1946 to 1953 Cheifs and a Bobber kit,built with the highest quality modern parts that have to meet his standers or they don’t sell em’.What My personal wish is for a 1941 Indian 4 cylinder. In 41 you could get a Scout(750cc),A 74CI Chief,or the Bonaville,with an 80CI engine,which was the predesesore of the ROADMASTER built from 48 to 53.I was at the Olly,Pa. meet a few years back and here it was a fellow from England which at first glance looked to be a 1941 4,but neay this fellow had built from scrach a brand new 4 with a 12 volt system,eletric starter and all.There are to many companys running with only the V twins in their minds.But the old Injun 4s were only 1000CC and you could get on US Route 1(east coast side of the country) stick her in 3rd and ride from Philadelphia,Pa. to Maine and Back with $55.00 in your pocket,and come home with $7.00 left in your walet.SOMEONE out there PLEASE make a inline 4 w/a 6 speed overdrive tranny,that anyone can work on without a computer & a PHD! Triumh has a 3 inline2300CC,why can’t an American company make a 500CC inline twin,half of a 1000CC inline4? I bid you all peace,and safe Rideing,if you face is in the wind you are my brother or sister,Walt Bauer
JOHN COLLINS says
In late August o8 I was involved in helping move over 50 vintage Indian Manufacturing Co. products. These items included motor bikes, bicycles, motorcycles, snowmobile and an automobile,of which there are only two left in existence. A building is being remodeled to fit this purpose,on the campus of the Springfield Museum in Springfield Mass. After this moving event all involved were fed sweet corn on the cob, ribs,chicken, hamburgs and mixed vegetables. The people helping were from all over New England and myself from Wilmington, n.c. About Sept 09, the official opening of the new Indian Motor Cycle Museum is scheduled to be opened. About 35 people in all were involved with this emotional event. My wife took over 200 pictures showing all items and their arrival into the new home.