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Harley Davidson (NOT) Upgrading Assembly Plant in India to Complete Factory Using Local Components

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Harley Davidson bulding complete factory in IndiaBased on reports from publications in India which have been accurate in the past, Harley Davidson is already upgrading their four month old assembly plant in India that currently builds motorcycles from knock down kits shipped from the US. After the upgrade, the factory will become a “mother plant” which will produce complete motorcycles from scratch using components delivered from local suppliers. Indian tariffs levied on imported bikes is 110%, on those assembled from kits it’s 60%. If the Harley cruisers are completely built in India, one would logically assume there is no import tariff at all, making them considerably cheaper when sold in those markets. The Indian plant is aimed at serving all of the Asian market.

The company has asked its global vendors in the US and Thailand to set up manufacturing units in Bawal. It has also given expressions of interest to Indian component makers for supply of vehicle parts to its Haryana unit, which would commence its operations in mid-2011,

Now, if I were watching how quickly HD went from imports to knock down kits and, it now seems, to full production in India, I’d have to wonder how long it would be before they took one more logical step. Hmm, … remember when Royal Enfield was a British bike?

Link: Financial Express via IndianCarsBikes

UPDATE: Harley is denying this report as rumor and says there is no plan to turn the assembly plant into a full factory.

Link”: Milwaukee Business Journal

Posted on Filed Under: Motorcycle Business

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Comments

  1. An interesting thought Paul, but I’m not sure if Harley could survive the public outcry if they went to full production of even their US-market bikes in India, if that’s what you’re implying.

    • I agree. No matter the dollars and cents, they could not count on demand remaining the same, or even close, if they tried to sell foreign made bikes here. In America, one of the big selling points of Harleys is that they are American. Give that up and they will harm themselves here, possibly forever and possibly terminally.

    • Harley is dying in the American market. They don’t have a vibrant long term future there. Like many other companies today, there is no loyalty to the US. Hmmm, didn’t a philosopher president say a thing or two about merchants…..?
      Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.

      Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. – Thomas Jefferson

  2. OK, let’s see :
    JohnDoe says “HD are overweight underpowered porkers built for people who like to dress like pirates”
    Gunman says “HD has the best quality of any bike on the market, and if they were so bad why are all the japanese manufacturers selling copies ?!?”
    BobbyBob says “well, I used to ride japanese sportsbike, now I’m older and I bought a Harley”
    and so on …
    Now that this has been said here in this post, like in any and all other posts about HD, no need to say it again, right, let’s move on and discuss constructively for once …

    What would be interesting is see how/if HD adapts his models to the indian market … what would it look like ?

    • I don’t know you people should really be worried about Indian Harleys being brought back to US. The same process is already being done here in Brazil for many years now, and all the production is sold locally. I can bet labor is cheaper here; it would take 4.5 years to buy a sportster on the minimum wage – if you can skip eating. But usually local demand is greater than supply.

      At least where I live the “allure” of owning a HD bike is still essentially the relationship with US and (north) american culture and tradition, so I don’t know if they would sell if they divert too much from their basic appearance and characteristics. But I know many HD owners who have changed the bike’s shocks to deal with our gravel-like asphalt.

  3. Won’t be long now before we see a new entry level Harley “made in India” offered for sale here in the USA. I wouldn’t be surprised if it ends up being a 2012 model.
    BTW, I wonder if HD is getting a tax deduction for all the money they are investing in India? My guess would be yes.
    I don’t blame HD, and actually think they are doing the right thing by entering the Indian market, but I don’t think for a minute that they’re only interested in the Indian/Asian market. Those bikes are almost certainly headed to our shores which means more of our own workers will be getting their pink slips soon.
    The only way to stop this from happening and to save our jobs is to learn from India and put a 110% tariff on these incoming Indian built bikes. But since our government is owned by our own multi-nationals, I can almost guaranty this will never happen, we are doomed!

  4. Quoting myself from the Victory thread on Feb. 18, this is all about labor costs. Harley or Victory, the motivation is the same:

    “Next up, the parts will be cast/stamped there. The day will come when those India built bikes will be sold here. There’s no similar import tariff stopping India produced bikes from making their way to the U.S. The Big 3 didn’t shift their auto production to Mexico for the nice weather.”

    Some argue Americans won’t accept an India built Harley in their garage. Maybe not today, but they will eventually. Paying $35k for a U.S. built Heritage Classic or paying $20k for one built in India will go a long way to that. Harley won’t start out there, they’ll start with the Sportster line to “keep costs down”. It won’t happen today or tomorrow, but I can set my watch for five years.

  5. Well, I can say from experience that there are some very good parts made in India, and some very bad parts made in India.
    Everything comes down to keeping a tight lid on quality control over there.

    If you go over there and try to accent on getting it done cheap, they will give you cheap parts. If you are willing to pay more for the quality, and reject anything not up to par, you will get good parts.

    The problem comes when the companies go there to find the cheapest prices they can get, and then they get burned.

    • And Tom Lyons knows what he’s talking about when India and what they make and how they make it comes into the conversation. After all he is one of the partners in the Ace Fireball/Royal Enfield bolt on power kits. I am sure he’s seen some real beauties with foreign manufacturers.

  6. Very sad, but not unexpected I’m afraid. I think HD will have to be cautious in that the brand they have created, the brand marketed to American riders, is one of pure unparalleled American pride. By shifting production to India would seemingly go against their brand image, thus making the last two decades of American sales success a complete and utter loss.

    I will say as I have in the past that Triumph seems successful with building the twin cylinder line in Thailand. I was working at a dealer in 2007 when we received the first Thai bike and we all simply dreaded the direction that was being taken. However, few customers seemed to care, as they were more enthralled with the end product apparently.

    As an American, I sincerely hope that HD will retain North American market production here in the U.S.

  7. The issue of how to prevent the Indian made bikes from tarnishing the reputation of the HD brand, is exactly why the CEO of Levi Strauss is now on the HD board. He’s been able to successfully avoid that from happening to Levi Strauss, and I’m sure HD brass wanted him for that reason.

  8. As a Canadian, I’m angered by this development. I’ve said it before here, that the way the Commonwealth Games were recently hosted in India was appalling. The quality of standards in construction for the site buildings was reported to be terrible. Some may find it cultural charming. I do hope Americans will respond with tariffs of their own! I do own a Harley, and after hearing this I’ll definitely be looking elsewhere with my hard earned dollars. Maybe from a brand that pays a living wage, and respect for that of the society in which it operates.

  9. I agree that the Sporster line will be the first to be outsourced. I believe that the majority of people who buy a Harley do so for the Brand Image. The image that HD sells currently has little to do with “American Pride” and more to do with being seen, being part of The Crowd, Big and Tough, making a statement, etc. These are pretty non-country-specific marketing ideals that H-D has tried hard to create and maintain. I don’t see the allure fading much with a shift to India. People will continue to ignore the fact that most, if not all, of it is made somewhere else like they do now.

    As mentioned, Triumph is a good example as is Porsche. I see 10 to 1 Boxters to 911’s. Very few people know that the Boxter is not German; very few (only the snobs) care. It really does not hurt their reputation and the huge surge in sales can only help their bottom line. There is no appeal or mystique lost to owning a Porsche.

    Please don’t add a U.S. tariff to imported Indian bikes, I’d hate to see Royal Enfield give up on our tiny market.

    -todd

  10. For the near future, maybe another thought for Harley Davidson is to publicly give up the American Made image. No more American imagery from that company. Stop wrapping a lie around the product. The people of India may be happy. Not sure about the American workers.

  13. The events of the last few weeks at the Wisconsin capitol just go to show what Harley and every other employer in the area have been dealing with for years. When you have to pay a premium wage and benefits to every employee including unskilled labor, you can’t compete on a global market. For that matter you can’t even compete in a domestic market if you allow it to be flooded with cheap imports. Even if Harley doesn’t import bikes back from India like everyone is speculating, how long do you think it will be before they move some or all of American production to a right-to-work state in the south like the auto manufacturers have?

    • Harley has already made contact with a number of “right to work” states and has made no bones about their plan involving moving the main engine factory to Tennessee, a right to work state. This tactic was used as a lever to get the unions to accept less in the last rounds of negotiation. Harley has historically been anti union. There are always some uninformed individuals that see the worker as the evil and will seldom look further down the line. I have no doubt that Harley will be bringing in bikes from India there is no doubt. They will also continue bringing in finished assemblies from all over the world as they have been doing for a number of years now. In fact, when a survey was done a few years ago it was determined that Harley was only 46% American made while Goldwing, made in the US at that time, was 52% American.

      But the problem here is not exclusively the worker and it never has been. The problem here is greed. Greed on the part of the manufacturer and their share holders. Greed on the the part of the workers seeking ever higher compensation while productivity decreases. Greed on the part of the consumer seeking an inexpensive product. All of this is coupled with a bloated and ineffective government that is controlled primarily by lobbyist groups fueled by corporate and interest group money. The end result will be Harley will build and import from India improving the bottom line and making the share holders happy for a while. Consumers will be happy initially with the cheaper pricing. Labour not so happy, but hey those “union bums” should have known better that to fight with the big guys and they will get another job somewhere else right? (Being facetious here about “union bums”. I am union labour myself.) And the US government, well they will do as they have always done and take credit for the successes and duck the flack as it comes.

      But give it ten or twenty years and see where it will go. As a result of global out sourcing no one in the US except the rich will be able to afford any bike or car from anywhere as the jobs have all been exported along with the product and the factories. The middle class who have historically provided the majority of the tax base the government needs to function will have all but disappeared into the mire of welfare, food stamps, and poverty. The few who did make the grade and became wealthy enough to reach the upper climes of the social economic scale won’t give a damn cause hey, they got theirs didn’t they. And the US government will do what they have always done…….

      In a way it’s almost laughable. In fifty years Harley and others like GM will look down from their corporate headquarters in Bhopal or Karachi or Tapei City and think to themselves, gotta cut costs to keep the share holders happy. You know, there are a lot of people in the US that would work for virtually nothing just to get a job and we could export the cheaper products back here to satisfy the needs of the new world middle class that we helped to create in Asia. Let’s get rid of these expensive lazy workers we have here and replace them with those great but poor folks in the US. And the US government will do what they have always done…….

      Lee Iacocca forecast exactly this scenario in the early eighties and no one listened. Marshall McLuhan forecast it in the sixties and no one listened. John Kenneth Galbraith in the fifties and no one listened. And the US government will do what they have always done…….

      If you are really concerned with what Harley is doing start bitching now and let them know that you will not buy their product if they continue along this path. Write your congressman. Write your senator. Write your president. You see the power is really with you if you care to wield it. But I have a feeling that this will not happen. Why? Because people will do as they always have done and that’s why they have the US government that they have……..

      There is nothing wrong with protecting what you have but you have to be willing to fight for it and pay for it. But if you just lie down and let them take it, well you git what ya got.

  14. “The events of the last few weeks at the Wisconsin capitol just go to show what Harley and every other employer in the area have been dealing with for years.”

    Ha! It’s that classic argument for a race to the bottom. If some workers have a decent life it’s a problem! Hell, let’s skip all the in-between stuff, and everyone can live in a tin shack outside the factory. Those evil unions, puleez! Some people just need a dvd player dipping in lead, and sold for two bucks to feel good about their lives. The middle class of the new third world.

  15. The primary difference I see is that Triumph was resurrected after a period of nonexistence. So the continuity had already been broken. So much of the Harley-Davidson mystique and iconography is wrapped up in being American, and from Milwaukee.

    If Harley-Davidson plans to import foreign made bikes, they will almost certainly have to lower their prices here. I can see people buying their products, even if foreign built, under the circumstance of affordability. Keeping the prices the same and pocketing the rest at the expense of American jobs won’t go over well.

    Back to the Triumphs, I’ve had test rides on both British and Thai built models. My rides were not exhaustive, by any means. That said, I would be hard pressed to recall any perceptible differences in quality or experience.

    • That was one thing that the Triumph factory kept reassuring those of us at the dealer level on, and that was that the quality will be the same from the Thai built bikes as those built in the UK. A factory rep even went as far to say that they hadn’t shut the twin line down completely at Hinckley in case there were problems with the Thai bikes.

      We had no idea which bikes coming in were Thai built until one day when a crate showed up and took a bit longer to break down. The wood used in the crate could literally be bent in any direction without breaking, but still this was the only indication something was different until we got the Bonneville out and looked at the tongue on the tank where the painter signs his intials. Needless to say, the chap wasn’t from Hinckley.

      I think there is something to the theory that Triumph had stopped production for a brief time, just long enough to let the wounds slightly heal over and for the consumer minds to relax and welcome a new Triumph motorcycle company.

      In terms of Harley Davidson though, I worked at a Harley dealer prior to going on to manage a Triumph dealership, and I can say that Harley has indeed taken the term “American” and melded it together with their name and product line. Anyone that says other wise just hasn’t worked in the industry and spoken with the people that buy the products.

      I realize full well that less than 50% of the components in a Harley are made in the US, however it goes back to the way they market the product. I’ve had people scream and shout at me while working at the dealer because they had to use a metric wrench to take apart their forks, or that the sticker on their axle nut cover said “Made in China”. Why did the verbal abuse I was subjected to occur? Because Milwaukee created an image that the ENTIRE machine was made in the USA, and to now pick up and move to India will simply destroy the ethos that they’ve built their entire product on in terms of marketing.

      I wish Milwaukee the best, I just feel sorry for the Americans that are going to potentially lose their jobs because this.

  16. Anyone else find it interesting that HD:
    “has asked its global vendors in the US and Thailand to set up manufacturing units in Bawal.”?

    Really?

    It’s easier, better, more cost effective, faster, or whatever other adjective you want to use to BUILD a new support system/supply base half way around the globe, than to manage the one you currently have…..man….the Chinese will soon be out of work if that is the case.

  17. I agree with what most of you are saying. I think the biggest issue is that now HD will no long be considered exclusive. Remember when you had to have a huge Harley to get into Hells Angels haha. Well not any more considering the made in India sticker would be a less than intimidating. Its no longer just American, but its now shared.

    Its like my girlfriend is hanging out another man (with a much much bigger market,) but dont worry she says, “We are just friends.” Sorry Harley, this was a serious commitment I made with you. We seriously went through so much together. I’m not cool with you going overseas when this motorcycle market gets ‘soft.’ If any other American brand did something like this I dont think I personally would care. Business is business. But when you supply the US police force with rides and you have all of our military history together it becomes more personal. Its more than business. You played into our image to create sales. But now when ur consumers are getting to old to ride, or dont have any money because of the recession, youre planning you escape route.

    The very reason why I longed for a Harley is completely thrown out now. The brand image doesnt stand for the same things any more.

  18. Makes me wish I had a tattoo removal business. The problem is you cannot suck and blow at the same time. Unions have driven business out of North America with outrageous contracts. You can’t get $30.00 per hour for putting the red bolt in the green hole and expect the end product to be competitive anywhere. In 1970 you could buy a pick up truck for $3000.00 and now $45,000.00 is common. Everyone wants to be rich-nobody wants to earn or create. Shame, but every part of the world has it’s time on top. America has had hers.

    • Maybe you’re ignoring that much of this has occurred despite the fact that many manufacturing jobs moved over seas years ago. There is little correlation between lower cost to the end user and overseas manufacturing. It is, at best, a stop gap measure to protect corporate profits.

      One of the reasons that the typical US worker can demand a higher salary is that they are more productive than just about anyone else, anywhere else in the world.

      Right now we’re in a transitional phase, whereby, the playing field is becoming more level. It’s been tilted for years in our direction (wrt standard of living). The rest of the world deserves the right to move up. Maybe we need to come down. Most of the growth that the US (and the rest of the West) experienced over the last 20 years was done with money that we did not have. That is to say, we fueled growth with debt. This happened while wages (unions or no) stayed flat (when corrected for inflation). Meanwhile, the top 1% of wage earners exploded, controlling 30% of the wealth, the top 10% control 90%. The top 1% has more than the bottom 90% combined!. (How did that happen? Are they unionized? NO!)

      The focus moving ahead is not to diminish other, but to work on improving the quality, rather than the quantity, of our experience. It’s not about being rich (it would take someone who makes $50,000 / yr 20,000 years to earn a billion dollars) but about having a rich experience.

    • Let’s go for it Mel. What we need to do is set up offshore tattoo removal franchises. Package tours to the Cancuns of the world with ink-erasing included. Everything done on the cheap, and no legal worries about the occasional botched job.

      I can understand Paul’s frustration about getting the same arguments every time this comes up. Still, several facts need to be repeated. Union and non-union jobs alike went offshore. Factories in Mexico, where workers got $2 a day, were moved to China, where workers got $1 a day. Because China is a communist country, workers were able to survive (barely) on those wages because basic housing, food subsidies, health-care costs, etc. are paid by the government.

      Does anyone know what the average hourly wage is at Harley? How about at VW, the 3rd largest car maker in the world? I’m guessing wages at VW are higher, the work week is shorter, more vacation time, health benefits, etc., and yet VW seems to be going gang-busters.

      My understanding is the entry-level union wage at GM is below $15 an hour, and less than the beginning pay at non-union plants in the South. In Wisconsin the public employees agreed to a wage freeze and lower wages, and already were making less than those in equivalent position in the private sector. So the dispute is not about saving money. That has all been widely reported, even on Fox, but I guess it still hasn’t sunk in everywhere.

      Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Indian companies, as well as those in other parts of the world, including most of Europe, seem to be planning for the long-haul. In the U.S. the short-term view prevails. In 10 years, if Harley is successful, it will be paying more taxes and higher wages in India than if it had stayed in WI. If it’s still around it will be looking for another move. By then the quick-buck execs behind the India strategy will be at other corporations, retired, or dead.

      If Harley were a Japanese company it would have branched out into tractors, lawnmowers, snowblowers, ATV’s, snowmobiles, generators, outboards, etc. That would have ruined it’s image, of course, but so will foreign-made bikes. Yamaha started out making musical instruments, but wasn’t afraid to try its hand at other things.

      • Sorry bblix, you post must have come up while I was writing mine.

        I wouldn’t have bothered repeating what you said so much better had I seen it.

        • Your comments are well stated and I appreciate your perspective and willingness to put it out there.

  19. I’m always hesitant to report on these developments because many of the same comments keep popping up, one side targets Harley, the other side targets unions, some mention the US government and everyone has a point, but the obvious issue that starts the whole process in motion are those huge import tariffs I mentioned. As long as those are in place, nothing else will have as much of an effect on Harley’s ability to sell bikes in international markets as moving the factory over to those countries, which is the whole reason those countries put those tariffs in place.

    Some advocate defensive tariffs of our own, which just escalates the problem with higher prices for everyone and the only beneficiaries are the governments collecting the fees. The only way to truly fix it is for every country to drop import tariffs (don’t hold your breath) and let the citizens of each country buy the best product from wherever it may be made, and then the other underlying problems that may exist, whether poor management or high labor costs or simply low quality products, can be addressed as necessary.

    Every country needs a vibrant economy with businesses creating products and services and the resulting jobs necessary to provide them. Every country should be willing to compete with every other country without tariffs, every company should be willing to compete with every other company without special regulations or tax benefits, every employee should be willing to compete with every other employee without special privileges.

    When any country, company or individual is unwilling to compete with their counterpart, it’s usually because they realize their counterpart is willing and/or able to do something they can’t or just don’t want to do and they demand special favors or protections instead of getting down to the hard work of demanding more of themselves.

  20. Most, if not all, automotive OEMs produce vehicles in the markets they are intended to be sold. Why should H-D be any different. While it may be the case they will build bikes in India, and possibly the case that some unique vehicle produced there may be brought back here, the vast majority of motorcycles sold in NA are likely to be built in NA.

    It would be difficult, knowing the dynamic demands of H-D, to move motorcycles from Asia to the US in a timely and cost effective manor.

  21. Does anyone see the irony in an Indian Harley?

    When this story first broke, the consensus was that H-D was merely looking to avoid the stiff Indian tariffs. Valid enough, but there also was the argument that they soon would source and build complete bikes there, ship them back to the States and still save money. Part of that argument seems to be coming true. H-D will go wherever costs are lowest. Considering the current battle in Wisconsin over labor costs, I wouldn’t be surprised if one day Harley employees found a padlock on the gates with a sign “Moved to India” taped to the guard shack. Would the Faithful buy an Indian-made Harley? Why not? H-D would have to vilify its American employees, saying they had no choice but to move. They have a great model for that kind of behavior in Wisconsin’s current governor. H-D is a master at public relations; they’ll pull it off and sell more Indian-made Harleys than they ever sold American-made bikes.

    • Here’s where these arguments fall flat: Labor is, overall, a SMALL percentage of the cost of a vehicle. The vast majority of the cost is in the materials, NOT, the labor. The cost of oil is the cost of oil everywhere. Same goes for Zinc, copper, nickle (you know, all that stuff that makes the bling on a H-D). Now, this get’s a little polluted because some countries manipulate the valuation of their currency, or tweak tariffs to make certain commodities for certain companies a monopoly. Or they hide costs by ignoring scrap OR changing quality standards (paying more for less essentially).

      • The majority costs of materials is labor as well. Getting that ore, copper or zinc out of the ground involves people, machinery, smelting and transport. African and Russian raw materials are going towards feeding Asian and Russian factories… it’s been shifting for many years. People in the East will make in a month what a North American factory worker makes in a few days, with the added factor of no pensions. The cost difference goes into the pockets of the corporations, it’s not passed down to the consumer. This is all done with the sanction of the U.S. government. They don’t care who does the work in the world, as long as the commodities are traded in U.S. dollars. (If you have to borrow U.S. dollars to trade your goods, then the U.S. bankers are making their profit.) When the U.S. dollar ceases to be the de facto international currency of trade, then we’ll see the reemergence of import tariffs with the U.S.

        The middle class has been dying in North America over the last 40 years, and it’s not coming back.

  22. This has happened before – Rikuos were made in Japan starting in the 1930s, a license built 45. Of course, H-D stopped receiving royalties and fees after December 1941. while the Rikuos proved to be sufficiently useful that production continued for a while after 1945. My gut reaction is that they should have sliced the nose off of that Indian camel the moment it poked through the tent flap.

  24. You want to know who will buy a Foreign Manufactured Harley? Ask the person who ownes a Harley, not those who hate on Harleys every chance they get. Contrary to internet opinions most Harley buyers care very deeply where they send their hard earned Dollars, And furthermore, the vast majority of valuable parts on a new Harley are made in America by American workers. Harley should be very wary of alienating their core customers just to attract a few wannabees who only buy on a supposed lower price. Harley prices are right in line with all the other premium manufactures like BMW, Ducati and Triumph and even the Gold Wing. The Sportster is $500 more than the Honda Shadow, but at least the Sportster has Disk Brakes on both ends.

  25. If H-D sells a cheap (under $4000.00) beautiful little single cylinder entry level bobber/cafe/tracker/(fill in the blank fad bike) that’s imported from there, NOBODY will complain where it came from.

    Considering the who and how of the current H-D regime, that makes too much sense to happen.

    • H-D tried the little cheap single route with the Sprints from their partner plant in Italy. Do you see them in the showroom today? Nope. They also sold two stroke singles. Both were a total disaster for Harley financially. They have also tried golf carts and snowmobiles as complimentary products. Do you see them in the showroom today? Nope. Also disastrous financially. They have also produced two opposed twins, one like a Douglas and the other virtually a straight copy of a 1934 BWM. Do you see these variants around today? Harley’s market has traditionally been the big Vee Twin. Sportsters are the entry level bike that they produce. The problem Harley will encounter should they try to sell Indian made bikes here is simply brand loyalty. They have spent a century wrapping themselves in the flag. It’s been a key part of their corporate identity and advertising. Now they want to modify that image and change the once proud statement “Made in Milwaukee USA” to “Partially Assembled in Milwaukee USA from Parts Made God Only Knows Where”. Are their customers are likely to accept that change or will they go elsewhere? Only time will tell.

  26. I should add that if anyone complained about said hypothetical cheap H-Ds coming from India, H-D would ask if they would prefer that they came from China instead. There’s little doubt what the answer would be.

  27. I have to agree with you, An entry level small single would have appeal here. Its the big, higher price models that would meet resistance. Who really can guess what the Corp. Big Shots will screw up next.

  28. It’s interesting to read the comments that Harley owners bought their bike because it was “American” and they would not buy another if it was built somewhere else. If that was the case then Victory should be doing far better than they are right now.

    Are Harley owners so fickle that they’ll jump ship once the playing field is leveled? I think you are underestimating the brand loyalty (maybe because of the tattoos) and the amount of work that Harley has gone through to maintain that. We also need to consider that the H-D demographic is supposedly changing from the old-school blue collar / war veteran to the hip, young upstart that questions authority and “American Values”. His iPod is made in China, so what’s the big deal? This new Harley buyer does not rely on The System to ensure he has a job. He (or she) went to school and is flexible enough to change careers mid flight and likely does so often to keep pace with the changing times. It’s in this market that Harley needs to improve its quality and performance, increase its brand identity, and romanticize its legacy to keep up.

    The times, they are a-changing.

    -todd

  29. I think this whole argument is missing the point. Harley is undoubtedly going to produce motorcycles in India because they’re trying to open up new markets. I don’t see how it could possibly be cost effective for them to produce bikes in India and import them for sale here, or even why they would want to do that. It WOULD make sense for them to buy Royal Enfield’s production plants in India and both sell them there and here, because it would give them an entry-level bike (roughly) similar to the Italian-made Sprint and Pacers that they used to sell (and which most people here are probably too young to remember) and they could do so, if they chose to, under the same iconic Enfield name. I think that would actually be pretty cool.

    As to the whole American-made, union/anti-union thing, I ride Harleys and a large part of why I ride them is because they are made in the USA. It is not, however, the only reason. (I have ridden other bikes, among them Hondas, Yamahas, BMWs, Suzukis, Kawasakis, and Triumphs over the past 40 some-odd years.) I am not an outlaw or an outlaw-wannabe (I wear an Aerostich Darien and a helmet when I ride, and although I do have a lot of tattoos, none of them are motorcycle-related ). I do not ride my Sportster 1200L because I want to project a certain image. I ride it because it provides a visceral experience that other brands do not provide and because it happens to be a good motorcycle that suits the way I ride. As for unions, they have their good points and their bad points, but unions are not responsible for corporations outsourcing their manufacturing to other countries. North Carolina, where I live, is a right to work state, but ask my fellow North Carolinians what happened to the furniture industry that used to be here. Ross Perot was right when he spoke about the “giant sucking sound” you would hear when NAFTA passed and jobs went to Mexico, only no one listened to him and now those jobs are not only in Mexico, but in China, Pakistan, India, etc. It’s all about corporate profits. Blaming the unions is a red herring. Bottom line: you can’t run an economy based on service industries and selling retail. You have to actually produce something. Obama can’t create jobs. Congress can’t create jobs. But legislation CAN be passed that gives significant tax breaks to companies that produce things domestically and tax penalties to those who don’t. And when the average CEO makes nearly 200 times what the average worker makes, it’s kinda silly to blame the worker, isn’t it?

  30. You non Harley riding haters just don’t get it. Harley will always build the bikes sold here in the U.S. in the U.S., they know what would happen if they didn’t. You guys that say you don’t care where something is made, well that’s obvious, you don’t like or own Harleys, good. And for the argument that the only reason guys like me own a Harley is because it’s made here well, it’s just too tireing to explain why that is wrong, I love my bike because it is exactly what it is and what anyone else thinks is a non issue to me.I had a guy tell me today that he had a Honda that is an exact replica of a Harley Davidson. I said what is it, he didn’t know what model it was. People like that naturally don’t care about a machines heritage. Probably doesn’t know much about his own.

    • John, you know that “live to ride” t shirt and breather cover that you bought at the dealership and sport so proudly? Where were they made?

      • Real secure with what you think you know aren’t you? And smug too, you know what will get a “right on” from your fellow Harley hating know it alls. I don’t have a Live to Ride Tshirt or any of that crap, and I don’t wear clown suits like you probably do. Don’t care what people like you think, ride what ever you like. And go on with your feeling of superiority because you’ve figured it all out and anyone riding a Harley is living in the past or whatever it is you believe, don’t care.

      • You’ve got it all figured out don ‘t you? You know what to say to get a “right on” from fellow Harley haters.I don’t have any of that stuff you claim I probably have nor do I ride in a clown suit like you. Don’t care what you think of my bike choice either.

        • John, I like all things mechanical – bikes, boats, planes, steam engines, typewriters…whatever. If you think that you`ll command my respect (or loathing) based on the motorcycle brand that you choose to ride – well, your going to get my pitty instead. Get an old junker and make it run…that`ll earn you points with me.

  31. Harley is denying this report from India and saying it is just rumor. Please see the update above.

  32. Haha … nothin like a good rumor to act as argument starter …. eh?
    FWIW … HD is no different from any other business …. in spite of how they try to market themselves.

    Oh yeah …. and labor is just a commodity like any other … if you do not have capital … then all you have is your ability to provide labor.

    If some other guy can provide labor at a lower cost than you …. guess what.

  33. Victory is doing poorly for the same reason you can hardly give away Metric Harley clones, Those who want a Harley buy one and always will… Harley is GROWING its market share in the U.S., Yes, in a slow economy those with money and credit still choose a Harley street bike. Just as those who want a Sports Bike have bypassed the HD XR1200R in favor of BMWs, Ducatis and the Metrics. Ducati may have some success with its new power cruiser, It more or less fits their image, It fits much better than Harleys V-Rod, or the silly looking new V-Max that flopped for Yamaha.

    • Exactly my point; Harley’s are not bought because they are American, they are bought because they are a Harley. You can’t take that away regardless of where they’re built. Victory is also an American motorcycle with the same (or similar) styling appeal and comparable (if not better) performance and pricing to a H-D. Why doesn’t it sell just as well as a Haley? Well, because it’s not a Harley. Concise marketing is a very powerful tool, one that Harley has wielded well. I doubt they will have problems coming up with a marketing strategy if something like this were ever to come true.

      -todd

  34. One theme that keeps popping up here is that H-D has their market niche because they aren’t retro, they’re unchanged (except for all the details). I wish Triumph and Norton had twigged to that concept, alongside their modern offerings.

    • It’s more likely they chose India because no one at Harley could speak Chinese.

      -todd

  38. If you take all the foreign made parts of off todays H-D you can`t ride it !. Asian manufactures have built cruisers that didn`t look like H-Ds. They developed more power per cc, cost less, weighed less, & were more durable. They got panned for looking “Japanese”. So now they give the market what it wants & get panned by the Harley crowd for being “clones”. They don`t engineer for weight reduction because American cruzer riders equate heavy with quality.

    Harley re-built it`s self by convincing the Nixon gov`t. to put tariffs on imports, citing employment, & “Made in America’. It was not that long ago that buyers paid more than MSRP to buy a new H-D because of the Co. limiting production purposely to create a shortage. Like all business it`s about the bottom line.

    I`ve owned H-Ds & enjoyed them enough at the time. I just didn`t want to ride the same bike all my life. They just haven`t changed enough since the iron head Sportster I had in the late 70`s. While some may revel in styling, nostalgia & patriotism I`m more interested my riding experience.

  39. Harley isn’t all made in the usa- showa front ends, etc., its been that way for years. My “83 wing will outrun my “91 bagger w/out using 5th gear, but my ‘ol’ lady feels more in the mood after a ride on the Harley. Is in just the vibration? She won’t even get on the 1100 Kaw, so I can always get a solo ride. Quit sniviling ’bout brand and enjoy whatcha got, the IDEA is to be in the wind, then worry about the profile you cut. I don’t care what anyone thinks so I don’t have the image/ego problem. Tariffs? HELL YES! lets bring the jobs back. Tennis shoes, tools, motorcycles, Everything that comes in should be charged and charged hard for the chance to be sold here.Make it more attractive to hire than outsource. As far as right to work states, lets try to live within our means, I could make it on whatever the prevailing wage is-others are doing it.