Harley Davidson released their 2nd quarter 2010 results, their profits were $139.3 million, somewhat higher than expected. Before the usual sales and earnings info Harley inserted a few introductory comments, and something jumped out at me:
Despite the decline in second-quarter retail motorcycle sales, we believe interest in the Harley-Davidson brand remains strong among riders of all generations. In fact, Harley-Davidson is the U.S. market share leader of on-road motorcycles among young adults. (emphasis added)
The U.S. market share leader of on-road motorcycles among young adults? What does that mean? Do more young adults in the U.S. own Harleys than any other brand, or are more of them buying Harleys or … what? Is it confined to the heavyweight segment? Come to think of it, what age category is a “young adult?” I’ve been having some difficulty getting a response from the Motor Company to my questions about that statement so, I guess we’ll have to … guess. Considering the usual thinking about Harley’s demographics, I would expect them to be making a big deal out of this. It does sound incredibly positive and I hope it is backed up by some statistics we can all agree on. I’ll let you know what I find out.
UPDATE: Just got off the phone with Harley Davidson and the relevant statistics are from R.L. Polk and were covered on the earnings call yesterday.
· . . . in the U.S., no one is reaching new customers better than Harley-Davidson.
· Based on recently provided Polk data, we have been the heavyweight motorcycle category market leader in new motorcycle sales to young adult men and women ages 18 to 34 since at least 2006.
· We have also been the heavyweight market leader since at least 2006 in new motorcycle sales to women riders, Hispanic riders and African American riders ages 35 and older. Of course, we are also the market leader among Caucasian men ages 35 and older.
· And when it comes to new motorcycle sales to young adults in ALL sizes of on-road motorcycles, Harley-Davidson has been the U.S. market share leader since 2008.
While talking to Bob Klein, I also found that a lot of this is directly attributable to sales of the Iron 883 and the Forty Eight.
This is new data and I hope Harley Davidson realizes how important it is to get this across to the motorcycle buying public as well as everyone else. It is EXTREMELY positive for HD and completely goes against the common wisdom that only Baby Boomers are buying Harleys. This is very good news for the Motor Company.
HARLEY-DAVIDSON SECOND-QUARTER 2010 RESULTS SHOW CONTINUED IMPROVEMENT IN KEY AREAS
Company Generates Earnings Per Share of $0.59 from Continuing Operations
Results Reflect Benefits of Restructuring and Continued Improvement in HDFS Performance
Retail Harley-Davidson® Motorcycle Sales Decline Continues to Moderate
MILWAUKEE, July 20, 2010 — Harley-Davidson, Inc. (NYSE: HOG) reported second-quarter 2010 income from continuing operations of $139.3 million, or $0.59 per share, compared to income of $33.4 million and earnings per share of $0.14 from continuing operations in the year-ago quarter. Second-quarter 2010 results include operating income from Financial Services of $60.8 million. Revenue from Motorcycles and Related Products was $1.14 billion in the second quarter.
Worldwide retail sales of new Harley-Davidson® motorcycles decreased 5.5 percent in the quarter compared to the second quarter of 2009, a sequential moderation in the rate of decline from the prior four quarters. In the U.S., retail new Harley-Davidson motorcycle sales were down 8.4 percent and in international markets, retail sales were largely flat, down 0.2 percent compared to last year’s second quarter.
For the first six months of 2010, Harley-Davidson income from continuing operations was $208.0 million, or $0.89 per share, a 28.9 percent increase from the year-ago period.
“Harley-Davidson is making steady progress at executing its strategy to deliver results through focus,†said Keith Wandell, President and Chief Executive Officer of Harley-Davidson, Inc. “We are seeing the benefits of our restructuring and continuous improvement activities reflected in our earnings performance.
“We are pleased with the continued moderation in the rate of decline of retail new Harley-Davidson motorcycle sales again in the second quarter. At the same time, we continue to believe conditions will remain challenging this year for new motorcycle purchases and we will manage the business based on that expectation, with a continued strong focus on managing supply in line with demand,†Wandell said.
“Despite the decline in second-quarter retail motorcycle sales, we believe interest in the Harley-Davidson brand remains strong among riders of all generations. In fact, Harley-Davidson is the U.S. market share leader of on-road motorcycles among young adults. We will continue to focus our resources on expanding the global reach of the brand and developing new products that will reach even more riders going forward,†Wandell said. “I would like to thank our employees for their continued hard work and support of our strategy.â€
Harley-Davidson Motorcycles and Related Products Segment
Second-Quarter Segment Results: Revenue from Harley-Davidson motorcycles during the second quarter of 2010 of $831.6 million was up 2.8 percent compared to the year-ago period. In line with guidance, the Company shipped 59,046 Harley-Davidson motorcycles to dealers and distributors worldwide during the quarter, compared to shipments of 58,179 motorcycles in the second quarter of 2009.
Revenue from Parts and Accessories totaled $231.8 million during the quarter, up 0.2 percent, and revenue from General Merchandise, which includes MotorClothes® apparel, was $67.4 million, down 3.2 percent compared to the year-ago period.
Gross margin was 35.0 percent in the second quarter, compared to 34.1 percent in the year-ago period. Second-quarter operating margin decreased to 13.9 percent from 15.3 percent in the second quarter of 2009.
Six-Month Segment Results: Through the first six months of 2010, shipments of Harley-Davidson motorcycles were 112,720 units, a 15.2 percent decrease compared to last year’s 132,849 units for the period. Revenue from Harley-Davidson motorcycles through six months was $1.64 billion, a 9.8 percent decrease compared to the year-ago period. Six-month P&A revenue was $380.9 million, a 5.0 percent decrease from the first half of 2009. General Merchandise revenue was $133.6 million, a 7.7 percent decrease compared to the same period in 2009. Gross margin through six months was 35.7 percent and operating margin was 13.1 percent, compared to 35.7 percent and 16.8 percent respectively in last year’s first half.
Retail Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Sales
During the second quarter of 2010, dealer retail sales of new Harley-Davidson motorcycles decreased 5.5 percent worldwide, 8.4 percent in the U.S. and 0.2 percent in international markets, compared to the prior-year quarter. Second-quarter retail results reflect a sequential moderation in the rate of decline from the prior four quarters, although the basis for comparison has decreased over that period. Industry-wide U.S. heavyweight motorcycle (651cc-plus) retail unit sales decreased 10.1 percent in the second quarter compared to the year-ago period.
Through six months, worldwide retail sales of Harley-Davidson motorcycles decreased 10.7 percent compared to the prior-year period. U.S. retail sales of Harley-Davidson motorcycles decreased 15.3 percent for the first half of the year while the U.S. heavyweight market segment was down 14.7 percent for the same period, compared to the year-ago period. In international markets, retail sales of new Harley-Davidson motorcycles decreased 1.1 percent for the first six months of 2010 compared to 2009.
Second-quarter-and first-half data are listed in the accompanying tables.
Guidance
The Company reiterated its expectation to ship 201,000 to 212,000 Harley-Davidson motorcycles to dealers and distributors worldwide in 2010, a reduction of five to ten percent from 2009. In the third quarter of 2010, the Company expects to ship 53,000 to 58,000 Harley-Davidson motorcycles. Harley-Davidson now expects gross margin to be between 32.5 percent and 34.0 percent for the full year, versus the prior estimate of 32.0 percent to 33.5 percent. The Company continues to expect full-year capital expenditures of between $235 million and $255 million, including $95 million to $110 million to support restructuring activities.
Financial Services Segment
Second-quarter operating income from Financial Services was $60.8 million, compared to an operating loss of $90.5 million in the year-ago quarter. Last year’s second-quarter results were affected by two non-recurring, non-cash charges totaling $101.1 million to establish a credit loss provision related to the reclassification of motorcycle loan receivables and to write off all HDFS goodwill. Through six months, operating income from Financial Services was $87.5 million, compared to an operating loss of $79.3 million in the first half of 2009.
Restructuring Update
The Company continues to expect previously announced restructuring activities begun in 2009 to result in total one-time charges of $430 million to $460 million into 2012, including charges of $175 million to $195 million in 2010. In 2010, the Company continues to expect savings of $135 million to $155 million from previously announced restructuring activities, increasing to expected annual ongoing savings of approximately $240 million to $260 million upon completion of these restructuring activities.
The Company and the unions representing its Wisconsin production employees are scheduled to begin negotiations this week on new labor agreements that would take effect upon the expiration of the current contracts in April 2012. Through the negotiation of new agreements, the Company seeks to close large cost gaps in its Milwaukee-area and Tomahawk production operations and improve flexibility to meet seasonal and other customer-driven production needs. If Harley-Davidson is unable to achieve those objectives through agreement with the unions by mid-September 2010, the Company has said it will move Wisconsin production operations to another U.S. location. The financial effects of a decision on Wisconsin production operations are not included in the restructuring costs and savings delineated above. The Company will provide updated cost and savings information at such time as it discloses a final decision on the Wisconsin operations. The Company will retain corporate headquarters, product development and the Harley-Davidson Museum in Milwaukee, regardless of the outcome of its decision on production operations.
Income Tax Rate
The Company’s second-quarter effective income tax rate from continuing operations was 29.2 percent compared to 59.9 percent in the same quarter last year. The rate decrease was generally due to the non-recurrence of a $28.4 million non-deductible goodwill impairment charge incurred in the second quarter of 2009 as well as the favorable conclusion of an IRS audit in the second-quarter of 2010 and, in connection with the settlement, an adjustment to income taxes payable. The Company now expects its 2010 full-year effective tax rate from continuing operations to be approximately 36.0 percent.
Cash Flow
Cash and marketable securities totaled $1.50 billion as of June 27, 2010, compared to $1.02 billion at the end of last year’s second quarter. Cash provided by operating activities of continuing operations was $726.0 million and capital expenditures were $45.8 million during the first half of 2010.
Discontinued Operations
The Company continues to be in discussions with potential buyers regarding its previously announced intention to sell MV Agusta. For the second quarter of 2010, Harley-Davidson, Inc. incurred a $68.1 million loss from discontinued operations, comprised of operating losses as well as a fair value adjustment of $61.5 million net of taxes. Including discontinued operations, the Company reported earnings per share of $0.30 in the second quarter of 2010. Through the first six months of 2010, Harley-Davidson, Inc. incurred a $103.5 million loss from discontinued operations. First-half earnings per share, including discontinued operations, were $0.45.
Sick Cylinder says
I don’t know what a young adult is either.
Sales to new riders of the “Iron” 883 have been very strong. Interesting that International sales are down only 0.2% so all the decline must be in the US.
In Europe Japanese bike sales have virtually collapsed, but HD is holding its own while Triumph, Guzzi, Ducati and BMW are doing well. Triumph is breaking sales records – the Bonneville is now one of the best selling bikes in the UK. The Jap bikes (and some of the HD ones are now simply too expensive in the UK – an R1 is now £14,000 whereas the European manufacturers offerings are now good value. I think HD needs to bring out more lower cost bikes like the Iron and Nightster to enlarge its customer base and appeal to “young adults”
HarrySeaward says
Sick – I also think people are starting to understand the concept of overkill. Japaneses bikes optimize overkill (as do some HD models like the Rocker C). This is evident in your statement about the Bonneville being a sales boon in Europe. The Bonne is an inexpensive, high quality, simple, yet fun bike. It does what a motorcycle needs to do without wasting a bunch of effort on extraneous considerations.
There are rumors of a 500cc HD product being in the works. Who knows.
Nicolas says
Wandell says “I would like to thank our laid-off employees for their (continued hard work and blah blah) support of our strategy, allowing to generate a 300% increase of the Earnings Per Share”
HarrySeaward says
Maybe this will help:
“Based on recently provided poll data, we have been the heavy weight motorcycle category market leader in new motorcycle sales to young adult men and women ages 18 to 34 since at least 2006. We have also been the heavyweight market leader since at least 2006 in new motorcycle sales to women riders, Hispanic riders, and African-American riders ages 35 and over. And of course, we’re also the market leader among Caucasian men ages 35 and over. And when it comes to new motorcycle sales to young adults, in all sizes, among road motorcycles, Harley-Davidson has been the US market share leader since 2008.”
– http://www.thestreet.com/story/10811833/3/harley-davidson-inc-q2-2010-earnings-call-transcript.html
HarrySeaward says
Nicolas – Would you rather they maintain the status quo and not adapt to market conditions? With slow sales (a reflection of the economy) a well run company must cut costs to be inline with revenue.
Nicolas says
Harry – one-time charges exceed several years of operating margin, not calling that cutting costs. Then I’d agree with you if you try and cut costs to stay afloat, but not to increase the size of the wallet of the shareholders.
But hey, who am I to comment on high level finance and industrial operations management …
Penectomy says
Looks like ‘young rider’ is defined as 18-34. That’s me for one more year! Sweet. On my 3rd Sporty and soon to trade up to the XR1200X.
Chris says
HarrySeaward: The problem is — and we’ve seen this countless times — that when the economy gets better, upper management is in no hurry to return employee salaries/wages/benefits to pre-downturn levels. That such sloth results in bigger bonus checks for upper management (for doing such a bang-up job of “managing”) is entirely an accidental side benefit, I’m sure.
cl
HarrySeaWard says
It also disproves the nonsense that all young riders want are Crotch-rockets AND that that Buell products were the key to future success at the motor company.. As sad as it was to see Buell close it starting to become more clear what the heck HD was thinking. It seemed retarded at the time but maybe they actually knew what they were doing?
MadDogXR says
Hey Penectomy, check out XR1200OwnersGroup.com And anyone else that is interested in XR1200’s and XR1200X’s
woodco100 says
JAMA (Japan Auto Man Ass.) reports motorcycle exports from Japan are down %70!!
Yes, seven zero percent!! Imagine losing 2/3rds of your business.
HD, Victory,BMW, Triumph all showing sales growth. The metric cruisers/600s have become the UJM of the times. You honestly cannot tell them apart from 10 feet away.
todd says
I would have never guessed. All the new bikes I see riding around are Ninja 650’s and 250’s. Certainly, the last time I’ve met a young rider on a Harley was my step-dad in 1976. Everyone I know with a Harley is the stereotypical “Old Guy”. I do see quite a large number of African Americans riding customized baggers in Oakland. Maybe the poll was largely conducted in the Mid West?
good new, regardless, for H-D
-todd
Tinman says
The local Metric dealers in my area(Mich)make no effort to reach out to new riders, closed on Sundays, no group runs or activities for owners at all. They sell on cheap price only. The area HD dealers are very customer orientated with extended hours and all kinds of activities for riders. Just like Ducati and Triumph, HD knows how to market their products. This info is no surprise, we have riders of all ages here on HDs, try being young buying insurence for a crotch rocket, the coverage costs more than the Bike!!
Burphel says
I hope Harley gets a hint from the fact that their smaller bikes are selling well and comes up with a 500/650ish bike. The 883 Sportys are good intermediate bikes and all, but they’re still quite a bit too heavy, expensive, and a tad too powerful to be a truly good starter bike for most new riders. Build a $5000 dollar standardish bike that’ll break the speed limit (but not by much,) doesn’t weigh a quarter ton, and looks good, and then you’ll see young riders really beating down their doors.
Mike says
Who cares about air cooled junk? Woo hoo, 600+pounds and 59hp.
B-o-r-i-n-g
Stephen says
I constantly see younger riders riding around on H-Ds here in Northwest Indiana. I thought maybe it was just a local thing – I never would have guessed that H-Ds were that popular among the 18-34 year-old bracket nationwide.
I’m still not giving up my Triumph America for an Iron 883, though. Why downgrade?
David says
883 to powerful! What? What have you been riding? A 883 is a beginner bike except for the weight… but that goes for all Harleys. Do not get me wrong I have had Harleys in the past and they are Iron deep heavy machines. A less powerful bike might be fine for parking lots but I would not get out on the road with less. You would get blown off and strain the machine. I had a 1200 and it was fun but not what I would call a power ful bike either much less a 883.
Some how I have my doubts about how they come up with their numbers. I think more clearity needs to be revealed. Numbers can be sampled to reflect anything you want if you take the right sample.
I ride a lot and I mean a lot and I do not see the trend that they are claiming. New bike sales are down but I see more young people on used bikes which there are a plenty. When the economy picks back up I imagine the new bike sales will reflect the same.
Still It is good to see an American company surviving.
matt g says
I went to an HD dealership recently prepared to hate the bikes and up close they relly do look the biz! A bike with a radio that’s awesome! I guess everyone hates a winner on message boards 🙂
They are heavy and slow compared to an R1 but at least I could ride on it and not feel like an utter poseur.
steve says
I think more young people are buying used. When i went to buy my first bike i tried to get one from a dealer. Even a used bike i could not get credit for. I didn’t have bad credit i just had no credit history. So i bought a used bike. I think the statistic is a bit flawed.
Epyx says
Steve, your one man account does not negate the Polk study. I know this type of information just rips the heart out of the Harley haters.
Tinman says
The only reason HD is bringing out a smaller bike is to supply their riders training course, the consumer sales will simply offset the loss from the trainer bikes. There is no profit in selling small bikes, No one can compete with the Asian imports in small bikes. The Harley brand is, and has always been, an Asperational product, Something to grow into as you grow in expierence and earning potential.
HorsePrivates says
Steve,
Did you not read the part that mentioned NEW bikes? Of new bikes purchases, the largest market share went to HD. Now you could parse that by doing a Cruiser Vs. Sportbike comparison and POSSIBLY show HD loosing ground. But who knows?
HorsePrivates says
TinMan
Dont forget India. 1B Indian consumers is a pretty big incentive to make a less expensive smaller displacement bike.
Also, the Asian manufactures USED to own the small displacement sector in the US. Now there really are no GOOD small displacement products available …. maybe the TU250.
steve says
im just saying you have to look at the whole picture. Im 23 and all of my friends are buying used for their first bike. Im not trying to hate on harley i just want to know the whole industry.
joe says
Where are all these young Harley riders ????????? Apart from a couple of young 20’s something tattoo artists i’ve seen with Harleys parked outside their city studio’s, I ‘ve seen no other evidence out on the roads. I traveled all over th country last year and all the Harley riders I saw where 30 upwards with most being 50 plus baby boomers. What are the younger riders doing with thier bike’s,using them as ornaments ? The report figures just don’t add up.
DoctorNine says
As an ex-racer, I kind of look at the ‘best in the heavyweight’ category something like the ‘guy best at bagging fat chicks’ title. Sure… but…
Mule says
Never under-estimate the marketing potential of skulls, “Badboy Image”, bandanas, bros and chained wallets. This stuff goes over big with non-riders!
All this information wants to make me run out and buy HD stock! Hmmm. Didn’t all this info come from Harley?
HorsePrivates says
Mule – Surprising to see the HD rage coming from a guy that makes money using HD motors and street tracker styling. Your seem like a creative guy, can you work on using said creativity to improve your disparaging remarks? At least make them more interesting. The sound like the rest of the negative comment heroes.
DoctorNine – Read the article again, its says “heavyweight leader” AND “when it comes to new motorcycle sales to young adults in ALL sizes of on-road motorcycles, Harley-Davidson has been the U.S. market share leader since 2008.”
Joe – The world exists outside of your peripheral vision and 30 to 34 year old riders are part of the youth segment (18-34). The fact that you see more older rides DOES NOT disprove the Polk statistic. Rather it confirms that OVERALL motorcycle riders are aging and fewer new riders are entering the hobby. HD still sells almost 2x as many touring bikes as it does Sportys. However when looking at only young riders the fact that HD has the largest market share is significant.
Epyx says
Steve Wrote “I think more young people are buying used. When i went to buy my first bike i tried to get one from a dealer. Even a used bike i could not get credit for.”
This is a good point and why HD having a captive financing arm is so important to their continued success.
BTW I am a 28 year old first time Harley owner. 09 1200 Nightster. …and Mule, no skulls, chains, tattoos, chrome, or flames here. How else would you like to pretend to know me?
Madison says
“In fact, Harley-Davidson is the U.S. market share leader of garaged and lawned motorcycles among young adults who promise they will go riding with you next weekend if they get their bike working by then.”
Just correcting to reflect real life experience. I personally don’t care for HD, but taste in look, feel, sub-culture association, and heavy price tag aside, I know a number of people who wish they had never bought a motorcycle and a HD was their first (and last)
Obviously the data above doesn’t support what I’m seeing personally, and what I am seeing is a much smaller part of the larger picture, but I do wonder what the retention rate is like. I’m seeing a lot of frustration, especially angled at the costs (buying, repairing etc) Now excuse me, I need to go soak up that oil under my Triumph 😉
(ok, not really but I couldn’t resist)
Steve W says
for those that see no evidence of younger riders, maybe you have blinders on or don’t go many places? where I go there are big numbers of younger riders on HD models. I do live in Wi. but I also get to other places. a lot of it can be, in my opinion, based on event happening. Every dealer in our area has a lot of events each season. Big numbers of riders attend and sure you can ride in on something else but do you really fit or feel like you are a part of the event? I live minutes from the states largest Metric dealer and you can go there and even find thier crowd wearing HD clothes rideing a Gold Wing or whatever because at least HD offers a full line of everything. You might not like it but it is fact.
OMMAG says
“….· And when it comes to new motorcycle sales to young adults in ALL sizes of on-road motorcycles, Harley-Davidson has been the U.S. market share leader since 2008….”
Not a bit self serving …. or unsubstantiated!
My prediction …. HD will be either out of business in two years or permanently on the public teat … like GM.
woodco100 says
I stopped at the local HD shop. There are hiring layed off cute young girls (former autosales) as salespeople. Granted, I would not buy a $20k big V twin for touring from one. I would need the experience of a seasoned long distance rider to for real world advice.
But the young, hip guy coming in looking for a financed first bike or metric upgrade would like to buy from a little tatooed cutie. She told me she sells lots of Sportys. I have seen it a several dealers. Seems to be working.
aaron says
“This is very good news for the Motor Company.”
…IS IT? It’s good they are selling bikes to a younger crowd, but this is the kind of thing that could backfire horribly…. i can see management types using this kind of data to resist entering new segments, to maintain the status quo, to keep doing things like they always have. I find it frightening… well, I would, if I were one of the “faithful”, or if it was important to me that american motorcycle companies dominate the market and live forever. It’s not. If, after this, they think they can switch tanks and trim on a sportster every time they want to reach new customers, I will have no problem rolling my eyes and looking at bikes made by every other manufacturer on the planet… like many bike nuts. seriously, good for them if there is a large number of riders that will not consider any other bike. but ignoring the large number of folks that will consider virtually every other manufacturer on the planet but them – that’s just stupid.
xcaptainxbloodx says
Leader in HEAVYWEIGHT class.
kids are picking Sportsters over Goldwings? Shocking.
john says
I have a cousin who recently financed himself a nighster. The requirements must be pretty low since he was collecting unemployment!! Now he is trying to sell to move to Cali. Tried to trade it in on a victory because it is way too uncomfortable. Kind of a goofball. In my old age(36) I’ve been eyeing those ‘glide models. They do good in bagger comparisons that i’ve read. Seems they would be the perfect fit for a long distance sightseeing vacation. I have a M109r but its a bit randy for sightseeing, but it sure blows out the cobwebs after work.
HootieWho says
xcaptainxbloodx 07.22.10 at 12:57 am
Leader in HEAVYWEIGHT class.
kids are picking Sportsters over Goldwings? Shocking.
Not good at the reading? Kids are choosing Sportsters over Monsters, GS1200s, R1s, Shadows, M50s, and Furys as well.
“new motorcycle sales to young adults in ALL sizes of on-road motorcycles, Harley-Davidson has been the U.S. market share leader since 2008.”
kneeslider says
@aaron: “this is the kind of thing that could backfire horribly”
I think Harley has made a lot of mistakes, as have all of the other companies since Japanese sales are down precipitously, too, or maybe the economy caught everyone with their pants down. But, yes, this is good news, they’re making improvements selling Sportsters to a younger crowd who may buy another Harley down the road.
If Harley wasn’t appealing to a younger crowd, everyone would be saying, “See, it’s only old guys buying, they’re finished.” So they get some younger buyers and the criticism is, “See, they’re selling the young buyers the wrong kind of bikes.” If they came up with new bikes they would probably get criticized for going out of their niche and competing with established players so they’re bound to fail. It almost sounds as if everyone expects them to fail no matter what they do. Some almost seem to be hoping they fail and that hurts a LOT of people.
No matter how HD or any other motorcycle company got to where they are today, no one can go back in time to change things, they can only move forward. When HD does something that begins to work, they still get slammed.
There are no guarantees, they may still fail, but, you know, they just might succeed, and I’m hoping they do, along with all of the other companies struggling right now. When I see signs of improvement, no matter how small or tentative, in a company that was definitely hurting, I smile and cheer them on. I would hope everyone else would do the same, even if you prefer a Honda, Ducati, BMW or anything else.
HarrySeaWard says
“If they came up with new bikes they would probably get criticized for going out of their niche and competing with established players so they’re bound to fail.” — The Kneeslider
For evidence of this please review the comments in the earlier post about the XR1200 racing series (or the comments that follow any XR1200 review for that matter).
Mule says
Horseprivates, Yes I’ve built many bikes utilizing Sportster or Buell motors. Other than a Sportster headlight and voltage regulator, I couldn’t or wouldn’t use anything else on their product. The nice paint jobs or new paint jobs don’t make up for the weight and minimal suspension development. The Japanese and the Euros especially, put a huge amount of effort into even the smallest details, which is why their bikes have more performance and weigh hundreds of lbs less.
I’m glad Harley is rebounding(?), but their bikes that they market and sell don’t fit my needs. Being a flattracker at heart, XR750’s are beautiful and fast, but have almost nothing in common with any other Harley. The motor is purchased as a kit and you have to source the entire rest of the bike yourself. Very expensive to maintain as well. I couldn’t afford to own one or campaign it. I could buy a used Sprint and build a bike, but that’s an Italian motor….and haven’t been made for 35 years.
I like Sportsters because they have the least amount of crap piled on them and are the lightest. I’m not anti-Harley. I’m anti-weight. 460-490lbs is where I have to draw the line for a street bike. 570-700lbs is ridiculous! Riding something like that dictates a certain riding style and its not mine. If it’s yours, buy one. Thats the beauty of this country. We each get to buy what makes US happy.
jarred says
I’m a 20 something harley rider! In fact I’m on my third new Harley. Sporty then I have a dyna and roadglide currently. Good job MOCO.
woodco100 says
There is a reason the first (and really only) rule to selling metric cruisers in the USA is. “Make’m look like Harleys!!
Look at any Jap cruiser line up. Fast selling classicly/custom styled. Slow selling muscle cruisers.
Merlin says
If I were to guess, I would assume there is probably a big difference between the 18-25 and the 25-35 demographics. This might be an oversimplification of the situation, but assume everybody from the 18-25 demographic buys sport bikes but has little to no credit. Assume everyone in the 25-35 demographic buys Harleys, but has more established credit. When a credit crunch hits (as in 2008) all the sudden, everybody who wants to buy a sport bike can’t do so, while everybody who wants to buy a Harley can still do so. Voila, Harley is the market leader.
As I said, thats probably a gross oversimplification, but I think there is a lot more complexity going on than “are Harleys awesome or crappy?”
If it does reflect a failure on anyone’s part, its probably the Japanese companies’ failure to produce attractive, midsized, competitively priced standards that are neither race bikes nor Harley wannabes. I think a $5000 CB450 with new-school tech and slightly upgraded styling, in the vein of the bonne would sell like hotcakes. Sale volume and owner loyalty would make up for marginal profits.
Horseprivates says
Mule,
I can respect and appreciate your opinion and response. I just get irritated with all the of tired and worn out comments about HD that your original post seemed to mimic. (If people want to get snarky they should at least be original) Your follow up was rational. I come to this blog (and avoid others like Wes and Grants) to avoid such things. I like reading about new sport bikes, your creations (good article about your garage, btw), new cruisers, new touring bikes, adventure touring etc. I just don’t like all the vitriol.
I don’t disparage R1-esque riders just because I prefer I different type of riding and bike, and I would prefer others acted accordingly as well.
HootieWho says
Merlin,
So you are basically saying that only 18-25 year olds with marginal credit like Sportbikes. If this was true (I dont think that it is), I would suggest that be a market worth avoiding as eventually those buyers would move out of the phase and into a different bike anyway (so you would not be missing much).
I completely agree with the rest of your comment. A CB450 priced competitively with the Bonne would seel like crazy (I think HD should consider this as well). The Japaneses Motorcycle manufactures are suffering from the same failures as the sports cars did in the 90s (300zx, RX7, Supra). What started out as fun, affordable, reliable, and essentially basic – became overly complex and expensive (yet still reliable).
fast eddie says
Coming soon used Harley’s at low prices. There will be an end to the real H D meaning
[Hundreds of Dollars] . Scooped up a Buell thunderbolt on the cheap .Boy was ever surprised how awesome the thing rides and get the job of motorcycling done. I’ve owned over 30 m/c’s over the years . Every size every shape ,the reason Harley’s sell is
people[riders] want them. Harley Davidson has stayed true to form. They made bad decisions time after time. The Buell rolled off the side stand broken clutch lever , broken
directional , OUCH ! The last new harley I owned 1979 FLH . Had the best side stand in m/c history it would lock in preventing the truck like bike from tipping and also would support the bike as a pivot to get a support under it to use a a stand to work on it [no center stand ] . After going to the dealership to get parts for the buell I was pleased
to find out the price of the replacement parts. New lever w/ perch w/ a electro switch 18.00 , new loaded directional 14.00 No wonder they went out of bussiness . Keep making poor moves harley it makes me smile $$$ . The new bikes look grate . the
back room makes alot less than before,the bikes have come a long way. They make it up on acessiores [ dealer wize ] . Long live ,Harley Davidson make some more moves, make more bikes, sell off the whole thing to China and then I can buy the bike that you perfected for Cheap $$$ ” bean counters don’t ride ”
Riders ,please remember “WE” are in a minority . Jap this Harley that , stick together
and ride. Safely of course FE
HootieWho says
Fast Eddie – Wow you were all over the place in that post. Good times!
mark says
It’s interesting how regional this phenomenon seems to be. Here in Vermont, it’s quite rare to see younger riders on Harleys, or any other cruiser for that matter. Lots of sportbikes, lots of SV650s, a fair number of Triumphs, Ducatis, and Buells, and the occasional dual sport. But very few cruisers. And this despite having several active H-D dealers in the area.
Will13 says
Interesting piece. It’s also interesting that, to my knowledge, the industry defines “heavyweight motorcycles” as motorcycles with an engine capacity larger than 700cc. Therefore, HD only builds heavyweight bikes and can claim such a title as sales leader in the class, as it does not matter if they sell a Sportster or an Ultra Classic, it all counts as a heavyweight unit in terms of a sale.
In my opinion, the economy hurt the Japanese the most, mainly due to the increase in price point for many of their products. Up to the end of 2008, I worked with Triumphs at a dealership in the northeast USA. We were all afraid of Triumph having to raise their prices. When the first price increase went into effect in April of 2008, we were terrified of what it would do to sales. When people still continued to buy, we were glad, but still a bit reluctant to be over joyed. The fact that Triumph slowed up production in 2008 I think played a large role in their weahtering the storm a bit better than their Japanese counterparts. When Suzuki did not ship bikes to the USA for 2010, this hurt all the Japanese manufacturers, as many potential customers figured if one maker in Japan was in trouble, the rest weren’t far behind. Harley Davidson also significantly damaged a portion of their market in the way they handled the Buell brand in late 2009. I tend to believe many of these customers went to Triumph and Ducati.
While there are many economic factors that can be used to spin things in a variety of tangents, I think the that seeing companies like Triumph and Harley Davidson being able to push forward amidst the growing economic confusion is a great sight to behold. Nice to see the XR1200 Challenge series and the Park’N’Go Triumph series in Europe enjoying some success as well on the road racing side of things. Small shimmers of light such as these give hope to the world of two wheels for tomorrow.
Now if we can only get Buell back to building street bikes…….
HoughMade says
From the for 10-K that H-D filed with the SEC, more interesting news:
H-D accounted for OVER HALF of all new “heavyweight” motorcycles in the U.S. in 2009- 53.3%. This is up from 45.5% in 2008. before someone says something ill informed and reactionary about the term “heavyweight”, the term is defined as an engine displacement exceeding 651ccs- we are not talking about Gold Wings and the like only. Chassis type is not part of the definition, only engine size. We are talking about the same classification as Bonnevilles (great bikes), CBR1000RRs, GSX-R 1000s (and 750s), Concours 14s, Triumph triples, etc., etc., etc. This means of all U.S. new registration in 2009 of ALL motorcycles over 651ccs, H-D outsold all others COMBINED. I don’t know how that can be bad news for them.
Over 651ccs, people. If you hate H-D for some reason, buy what you like and ignore this news. However, don’t use a bias to make unsupported assumptions about the numbers.
Perhaps more interesting is that H-D had 12% of the heavyweight market in Europe in 2009, up from 10.6%.
Granted, the same report shows an overall drop of new “heavyweight” motorcycle registrations in 2009 of 36.6% in the u>S. from 2008 to 2009, but this means that H-D is maintaining its position better than other manufacturers in a horrible market (the drop in Europe was 19.5%).
In sum- bad times for all motorcycle manufacturers, but less bad for H-D. It seems to be positioned well for these difficult times. The fact that it is still profitable when so many businesses of all types are just hoping for the smallest loss possible and trying to survive until there is an economic turnaround, is a very good sign for it.
Kurt Bennett says
Kudo’s for Harley. After reading all the posts its become evident that they can skew statistics to their advantage. Harley makes a good cruiser, good for them. Seems the Triumph Thunderbird beat them out in that category on the CycleWorld Top 10. I for one will wait until Eric Buell comes out with his next creation. HD loyalty to their customer base is questionable.
HootieWho says
“After reading all the posts its become evident that they can skew statistics to their advantage”
Random internet posters with subjective anecdotal observations are held in higher regard than a Polk study and the 10-K filing?
Kurt Bennett says
Hootie,
Always thought this was where we could share thoughts and comments. I wont debate 10-K filings, they show HD made money this quarter. Third party studies offer an opinion of current situations. They may or may not have anymore value than the random internet posters you refer to.
HD has been around a long time, I hope they survive. They make a product that fills the needs of the riding community.
Skizick says
Perhaps the fact that the Motor Company has slogged along with such devotion to it’s designs has a bit to do with it’s apeal. The rods out of my ’52 flatheaded sporster will fit in a new 883. I can see a direct link between them and that is to me reassuring. I pity Japster Shop keepers who’s parts inventory has to be revampted almost yearly because the bikes are like my computer. As soon as I got my puter home there was one that made mine look outdated on my screen.
Skizick says
I don’t see that anyone has touched on the most basic draw the Motor Company’s design has. The gait that the motor its self produces has a magical effect on the female of our species. Like riding a horse. I don’t mean any offence to anyone but that has been part of Harley’s mystique as long as I’ve been around. 60+ years..
woodco100 says
“The rods out of my ‘52 flatheaded sporster”
to Skizick, Duh, the Sportster (not sporster) came out in 1957.
Sick Cylinder says
some posters are saying they haven’t seen many Harley’s ridden by young riders – what I notice from the for sale ads in the UK is that the average Harley rider appears to do hardly any mileage – so could be a lot of sales, but not many seen because they are either in the garage or on the driveway being polished.
The HD clothing is interesting – because it isn’t CE tested it is effectively sold as fashion wear – even the leathers. I wouldn’t buy any riding kit that hadn’t passed the CE standards for abrasion and impact resistance.
woodco100 says
The Jap Metric stuff is dying hard. Pick up a cycletrader. Lots of new 2007-2009 models %30-%40 off list. Just blow off the dust and ride away.
HD, Victory, Triumph, BMW even Duc are show sales growth, exciting new products and stick to thier genre.
All Japan can say right now about thier cruisers is “Looks more like a Harley then ever before”
The era of fat old dudes with lines of credits and mid life crisises is long over. They have lost thier equity (if not thier jobs and homes), gone back to watching TV and parked the bikes. The wife is tired of banging her shins on the pipes and she can hang towels to dry on the treadmill behind the MC.
I just saw a low mileage (under 10K) 2005 Roadstar Midnight Silverado (MSRP $14,000) on Craigs for $3600. Figure 4 bones for a battery, tires and fliud change. You are riding a like new bike that has not changed (except for FI in 2009) since 2004 for $4K. Absolutley no reason to consider new on a machine like this.
Don’t ask what Craigs it was, every one I look at has deals like this. Just times it by 10,000 listing in every city.
Mule says
HorsePrivates, I will retract one one thought I had. I think if I was building a new bike for myself today, it would be a Sportster or a Bonneville/Thruxton. Tons of weight can be taken off both fairly easily as can power be easily increased. The Sportster is a “Double Hundred”. Meaning I could take a hundred lbs off and get a hundred horsepower without breaking the bank. And Sportsters can be had wilth low miles. We just bought a used 02 “Sport” with 10K miles, an 89″ “Super Hammer” S&S motor, a Vance&Hines stainless exhaust ($1000.00), a set of piggy back Works shocks ($950.00) and everything is new. We paid $5K for the bike!!! That’s about as good a starting point as you can get. The Bonneville stock is lighter and would handle better, but there is a power ceiling at under a hundred. After that, you’re spending large dough!
I look at every bike as a starting point for a project though.
Skizick says
Hey there Woodco 100, I reckin I know a K model from an X . I called it a flatheaded Sporty just so most folks that ain’t aquainted with 52 to 69 Harley Racin’ stock would know what I was refurin two. Parden my spellin. What do you think about how a group of Harleys and Indians goin’ down the road sounds like a bunch of bikes and then modulates into the sound of one big one. Like windshield wipers that go in and out of phase. Cool huh.
woodco100 says
The K was indeed an early Flathead Sporty, 52-56 I believe.
Skizick says
That look, that sound, and the feelings that exude from those V-twins has had a place in the hearts of gearheads from the very beginning of motorcycling. The fact that Harley has stuck with that style to me shows they realize the natural appeal the design embodies. Why else would they patten the sound they make? Other makes copy the look but nobody else goes potatoe-potatoe-potatoe, eh
HootieWho says
Skizick – They actually never patented the sound. The attempted to patent it for use with toys but it ended up being a failed attempted. That is an urban legend and actually one used by the haters to disparage HD.
aaron says
I’d say that rather than “sticking with the style” it would be more accurate to say “failed to develop” or “did not explore other powertrain options.” (would it surprise you to hear that my favorite HD bikes have the flat twin layout?)
it is it’s own thing… I’ll give it that. I’d recommend that folks ride as many bikes as possible to get a feel for the different types of machinery before forming an opinion. there is something comforting about straight line puttering on a cruiser. if I was confined to that kind kind of riding (by personal choice or otherwise) I might be checking out the HD lineup.
Byrd says
“We are pleased with the continued moderation in the rate of decline of retail new Harley-Davidson motorcycle sales again in the second quarter.”
Did they get this from the DC beltway? Because that’s just about the lamest double-speak I’ve heard this side of some idiot CYA’ing an elected official.
A 500cc “Harley”? What silly idea. Anyone who thinks an 883 is too much bike for them should never be the target demographic of HD. That’s just not who the company is. They tried that rout in the 70’s with ltalian “middle weight” bikes. HD should really just drop the 883, it’s a dog performance wise. It doesn’t cost a dime more to build a 1200 Sportster than an 883. They should just build the 1200 and lower the price if they want to sell more bikes. And for God sakes, they need to buy Buell’s version of the Sportser engine, and stick in a longer, sleeker, better looking bike a grown man can stretch out on, and price that one higher. IMO HD should be building their traditional, air cooled bikes that represent what it’s customers want.
woodco100 says
Exactly, don’t tell me what I want, sell me what I want. Personally, I think combining Buell with the V Rod the could have had an entire division of watercooled sport touring,Multi and sport bikes.
This could have competed with BMW/Goldwing/Connie1400 type touring sales without taking from UltraGilde sales.
They had the manafacturing in place, the know how, the product and the demand. All they really needed was the “aircooled only” wing of HD to get on board. Story is the 1125R that was supposed to save Buell was intenionally sabotaged. Beull built the chasis, Roatx built the motor but HD would only approve an outsourced motor if they did the engine management. Which in todays world, is what makes or breaks the bike. It was never right or what it could have been that 1st year. The press intro bikes were horrible.
I just stopped at a local dealer, not one Vrod on the floor.
Paulinator says
The 500cc Harley could fit in the Asian market if they could also shave off 150 pounds and a couple of inches in overall length (ouch). I don’t know how they’ll gain market access and still generate share-holder dividends, though. Actually there’s a segment of North Americans who would be less intimidated by (and more apt to buy) a smaller, lighter sibling to the big 883.
On another point, I know a guy that owes 8 grand arears on a Harley worth…maybe 10? He hides it every night. How many deadbeats are being carried by H-D right now? If they went collecting what would the used bike values drop to?
JoseFaliciano says
Paulinator – You make a pretty bold assumption based on 1 data point. Maybe you just have deadbeat friends :)? I don’t think ‘deadbeats’ are the sole domain of HD. Besides, I thought only accountants, lawyers, and Dentists rode Harleys, isn’t that how we are supposed to make fun of them? Paul hit the nail on the head, you guys will always find something to bitch about.
I agree the 500cc bike is a great idea for Asia. Not Japan but India. Japan is a small and shrinking market (for motorcycles over 250cc), 50cc scooters are king there. The Indian model would need to be knockdown and built in India to avoid the insanely high import tariffs. The same product could be also sold in the US, but it would be simply an afterthought for the Riders Edge Course. JMO.
Eaton says
Woodco – The Nightrod has a pretty good following. It is not the most popular HD product but it does ok. The original VRSC was a styling mess and thankfully was dropped for 2011. The Nightrod looks the business and does sell better than previous iterations (should have mids like the 06 though). Power-cruisers are not a great selling niche to begin with (by anyone), not surprising one was not available on the floor. I have been tying the get a test ride on the Muscle but no one has one around me. The two dealers I go to usually don’t keep Vrods on the floor very long and generally sell on order.
I don’t think HD needed Buell to enact your plan (I do think they should have sold the brand, but that is a separate issue). They can do what you suggest now. The Revolution engine is underutilized and put in a model that it not a fast seller. Why not expand it into the touring bikes? Seems like a logical fit to me. The long distance touring guys will get over the radiator, and its not like those guys are not the wrencher set. The Sportster, Dyna, and Softtail set would be the harder sell with water-cooling. EPA and Euro regs are going to force HDs hand eventually anyway.
HD does not need Race Replica (super sport) bikes (other than flat tracker types), it would be a very expensive undertaking to catch up (of course BMW did it). I think there is room for expansion into Adventure Touring (something like the Ulysses) and with smaller standards (hopefully to come) and a true XR650 like the XR1200. All of those options could be done in KC along with the Sportster.
HD may have 54% of the US market and that number may actually have grown, but why be happy with 54%? Go after 75% – 80% by adding a little diversity. No need to reinvent the wheel but hedge a little.
MikeyA says
Waitaminnit, did someone mention pushrods in a flathead? Uh…unless I’m from a different planet, I don’t think you’ll find any pushrods in a flathead, be it HD, Indian or a Ford V8, let alone pushrods you could take from a k series and put in an XL…
Let’s face it, any discussion of HD will bring out the lovers and the haters, and I’m no exception, but I’ll try to keep my personal bias out of this. The initial point of the article is pretty interesting. I never would have thought Harley could be the top selling brand in such a large category, so kudos, Harley!
That said, wasn’t there a 500cc entry-level bike a few years ago based on half a Harley engine being made and sold by a brand that used to belong to Harley? Is Harley planning to bring back the Buell Blast?
Eaton says
MikeyA ,
Rumor has it that HD is planning a replacement for the blast to use as both the Riders Edge Bike and as smaller displacement entry into the brand. (apparently they sold quote a few of the little Blast bikes to graduates). One could image the engine could be the Blast thumper but who knows?
Another (inferior) blog interviewed a marketing dude from HD that confirmed the rumor but gave no details. Just that it would be a smaller displacement, entry level bike, but that it would be desirable. Something most small displacement entry level bikes (available in the US) cant claim. (looking at you Rebel)
Hopefully it will not be a cruiser, little cruisers are UBER lame. Amazingly, cruisers just look stupid shrunken and covered in plastic chrome.
I am hoping for a standard or a flat tracker-esque bike. The flat tracker makes the most sense. It can be made small without looking shrunken( they are supposed to be small). It can have plastic bits to keep cost down without being cheap (tank cover, tail, mirrors, lights – just like the Blast and XR1200). Basically, keep the good things about the Blast but make it look much better. Flat Trackers pull from HD design heritage – a good thing.
A standard would be good but it may be hard to keep it from aping from the CB, TU, or Bonneville. That would be bad.
The way I see it, Street Tracker is the way to go. Sell them for $5K. I bet they do VERY well. Give em cool paint jobs, red, white and blue. Bring back the #1 logo for the tank! Wow, I’m getting excited. Do it HD!
Eaton says
Basically this with a HD plant: Yamaha XS650 Street Tracker by Cycle Sports——>
Mule says
Trying to “Instruct” Harley on what they should or shouldn’t build or sell is a waste of time. They’ve almost always made decisions counter to what most outsiders think should be done.There’s a ton of different markets and styles out there. Harley can’t cover them all. Honda can, but the Harley lovers consider them the enemy. The rest of the population just wants a bike that fits THEIR needs at a fair price. They’re not in the “War”. They’re just riders.
Harley is capitalizing on obsolescence veiled as tradition.They sell lifestyle and clothing and they do it better than anyone on earth, hands down. If you fit into that lifestyle or want to, you are their market. Every attempt through the years to deviate from that has ended in failure or disaster. They don’t know how to do it, but more to the point, they don’t want to know how to do it. The only thing that has been successful is for them to stick to the original plan and then get the consumers convinced it’s the best plan. You want offroad, sportbike, roadracer, sporttourer, adventurer or whatever else? Harley makes what Harley makes. You like it or you don’t. If you like it, that’s good. If you don’t, don’t expect them to change just to please 46% of the “Heavyweight” market or 100% of the rest of the market.
That said, a small bore entry level bike has no place in the Harley membership. It will cheapen the entire structure. If any knucklehead can get a smallbore “Chick-bike” and belong, what is membership now worth? Squat. Buyers should dream of getting a real Harley when they are ready and able. This keeps the brand exclusive. If the choice is a 500cc “Mini-Sportster or a Honda Rebel”, what good does that do Harley?
AND, I have never seen anything in print that says going to a Harley dealership to shop for a Buell was a positive experience. More often than not, the salesmen were out of their element, which is totally understandable, but a death sentence if Harley wanted to sell something outside their comfort zone. Harley’s comfort zone has a very thin band width. Paint, finish, lifestyle, exhaust note, cruiser, tradition. The other manufacturers are scramblin’ all over the motorcycle spectrum trying to keep up with each other and provide what the consumers desire. A daunting task. Harley has only to hire more models and take more pictures for ads to keep the lifestyle popular.
RJ says
@Mule – I agree – less weight
I’ve got a ’90 Sportster 1200, which was about 490 lbs stock. I put on aluminum flat track rims, stripped off everything not needed and fabricated a simple 2-1 header. I put the bike on the freight scale here at work last week and it weighs 467 lbs wet. That is 98 lbs less than a 2010 Sportster Iron 883. The newer bikes with rubber mounted engines weigh a lot more…. 565 lbs wet. The XR1200 weighs 580! With an aluminum swingarm!
Paulinator says
JoseFaliciano, the dude ain’t my friend – just an acquaintance. Is there a trend? I can’t tell from one data point. Does H-D Finance accept a high default rate in order to prevent market dilution with under-valued repos? Just a question.
I think a Sportster with 2 inch bores and 50 pound jugs would be ridiculous. Just add a 1/2 inch restrictor plate in the intake manifold for Christ’s sake. If they develop a new light-weight bike then the entry level will be easier for “chicks” and older guys will keep riding after their knee replacements. That’s all good.
Marc says
What a crock. Of course they’re the market leader, when you define the “market” as ” the heavyweight motorcycle category.” They may as well call themselves the leaders in the Harley Davidson category. Extraordinarily misleading to limit the “market” to heavyweights. If you really want to find out where the market is trending it should be ALL street motorcycles sold to young adults. I suspect you would find much more growth among sportbikes, standards, and scooters than heavyweights.
kneeslider says
Marc, please read a little closer and read all of the Polk findings.
“And when it comes to new motorcycle sales to young adults in ALL sizes of on-road motorcycles, Harley-Davidson has been the U.S. market share leader since 2008.”
Tinman says
Mr Kneeslider, Its nice to see you trying to keep things on a factual basis! I enjoy your site, but it seems any time you post HD news its like sticking your hand in a Hornets Nest. I guess it good to keep people involved, but Holy Cow!! What a varied responce.
kneeslider says
Tinman, yes, it gets a little turbulent every time strong opinions collide with facts.
Paulinator says
HEY, My opinions ARE facts (period)
Mule says
This is the Internet! Fact are “Created”.
John S says
If this is true, it’s very good news for Harley-Davidson. The main thing I’ve noticed about the Harley market is that we’re getting old. Take Laconia Bike Week, here in my back yard, it’s had a bad rep in the past including a full on riot in the 1960s that required the National Guard to restore order. Today the media talks about how calm it is. Sure it’s “calm,†we’re in our 50s, 60s, and 70s and need to get our bikes home before dark because we can’t see so well. (At least the aging bike women stopped flashing their breasts decades ago.) Unfortunately for Harley, young adults probably won’t be able to afford their products. Their careers will be impacted by the permanent recession. We old fogies bought our Harleys using money extracted from the dot-com boom and the housing bubble.
Winn says
If it took 50 years to modify a Sportster into the XR 1200, then the HD Motorcompany will need until 2060 to make an Adventure version of the XR1200. This means that it is true that Harley-Davidson is thinking in our grand children, in the mean while offering the young adult of today only a 16 inch front wheel for it´s Sportster.