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Harley Davidson Completes Sale of MV Agusta

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Harley Davidson Completes Sale of MV AgustaHarley Davidson completed the sale of MV Agusta to Claudio Castiglioni, former owner of the marque.

UPDATE: An article in the Wall Street Journal has a few details from the 8K filing with the SEC. It’s probably a good thing they sold it, but as an investment, it certainly didn’t turn out well. Note to Harley, don’t buy Italian motorcycle companies.

In the filing Harley said it “contributed 20 million Euros to MV as operating capital” that was put in escrow and is available to the buyer over a 12-month period. The buyer is Claudio Castiglioni, who, with his brother Sergio, ran MV Agusta for years before selling it to Harley two years ago for about $109 million.

In the filing Harley also said it received “nominal consideration” from the buyer. In a subsequent interview the company said the specific amount it received was $3 Euros. A company spokesman said the terms of the transaction “reflect the realities of the current economic environment and the difficult conditions” in the sport-bike market.

Harley has previously write-downs totaling $162.6 million for the fair value of MV Agusta and began treating the unit as a discontinued operation after announcing its intention to sell it a year ago.

Press release:

HARLEY-DAVIDSON FINALIZES SALE OF MV AGUSTA

MILWAUKEE, Aug. 6, 2010 — Harley-Davidson, Inc. (NYSE: HOG) has concluded the sale of its subsidiary, MV Agusta, to Claudio Castiglioni and his wholly owned holding company, MV Agusta Motor Holding, S.r.l., effective today. Castiglioni is the former owner of the Italian motorcycle maker and has served as MV Agusta’s chairman since 2008, when Harley-Davidson acquired the company.

In October 2009, Harley-Davidson announced its intention to sell MV Agusta as part of a new corporate strategy to focus resources on the Harley-Davidson brand. Since then, Harley-Davidson has held discussions with various potential MV Agusta buyers.

“MV Agusta is a proud brand and we wish Mr. Castiglioni and the company’s employees well,” said Harley-Davidson President and Chief Executive Officer Keith Wandell. “Our decision to divest MV Agusta reflects our strategy to focus our efforts and our investment on the Harley-Davidson brand, as we believe this provides an optimal path to long-term growth.”

Posted on Filed Under: Motorcycle Business

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Comments

  3. What would be interesting to know is the selling price. HD paid about $100,000,000.00 for MV. I’ll bet that they sold it for a lot less.
    Brian

  5. Seems like this can only be good for MV. HD hasn’t known what to do with real racing for years, save for possibly flat-track.

  6. H-D Doublespeak.

    Kill off development and marketing of true Hi-Po division (Buell) and “concentrate on core business”.

    Sell off positive cash-flow investment for less than purchase price to raise short term cash (MV Augusta) and “focus ….on the H-D brand”.

    “one further… cut to the business model” i.e. kill the V-Rod

    Manufacture bikes in India to bolster the “made in USA” aura and mystic.

    I’m sensing a pattern here. Next stop, license the manufacturing rights to China and get a real H-D clone of the Sportster, and concentrate on the “core Big Twin H-D values??

  8. Thank God Harley has got rid of this Money Pit… MV Agusta builds a fine bike, but has never made money for any of its owners. This is the 1st move that the new CEO has taken that makes good sense. As much as we would like to think other wise, HD exists to MAKE Money, not to subsidize expensive boutique brands with hard earned American Capitol. Now bring on the new entry leval 500cc standard Blast replacement.

  9. Thank goodness!

    I was worried that Harley was going to go all “AMF” on MV Agusta, lord knows they can’t build anything but garish bloated retro bikes themselves.

    Well, there was the “edgy” XLCR, but they didn’t give it the development it deserved.

  10. any info on the size of this “gift” from H-D to CC? I think the underpants gnomes must be responsible for this “corporate strategy”…

    1) buy MV. pay all debts. develop new model lineup. sell at a loss to original owner.
    2) ????
    3) profit.

    you know what would make me laugh my ass off? a successful partnership between Buell and MV.

  11. @Brian Sheridan
    HOG just filed their 10Q (quarterly financials) with the SEC yesterday, the 5th. Obviously the MVA transaction isn’t included in that report. But it won’t be hard to spot next quarter, perhaps Kneeslider will remember to do a follow-up.

    MVA has had a few financial growing pains since 1945, but, does anyone remember AMF or the decades of owning a Harley being a curse of oil stains on the garage floor? Maybe it should be obvious, but HD isn’t setting the world on fire right now, either. A quick look at the cost of sales (units built) and sales revenue tells a grim story.

    And MVA did announce just a short while ago that sales were up 50 percent in the first 3 months of 2010 (as always the financials are time delayed and looking back). With a little digging, it can be found that MVA has come out better for each partnership it has entered into….now H-D has provided another debt restructure, investment in the production facilities it is now abandoning, and provided the moola for the R&D that resulted in the brilliant F4 bikes. And H-D is also abandoning the large MVA distribution network in Europe. And joint R&D benefits.

    Make no mistake, this is a “short sale” to raise capital rather than the strategic long term investment as originally envisioned. The question is whether there will continue to be a growing number of HD enthusiasts with extra cash to spend on those lumpy and loveable V-Twins over the next few years as the USA’a struggles out of financial ruin (with it’s own debt to “income” and management problems!!).

    Well, after looking at this quarter’s 10Q, I’d say it’s 60/40 to the positive. But the hope of HD becoming an innovative or performance brand is dead. It’s a living fossil that will continue to churn out romantic images in overdone chrome and excess steel weight.

    Just as it should, perhaps.

  12. My God, who ever expected HD to be an Inovative Performence brand? There are Inovative Performance brands all over the place, many of them losing money hand over foot. HDs mision is to make a Profit for Investers, A mission they perform very well. The Boy Racers love to rag on Harley, But as the old saw goes, If I have to explain, You would not understand!!

  13. Amen Tinman
    I never fail to be amused by the rants and raves of people that don’t ride Harley’s. Thank goodness Harley riders don’t feel compelled to answer in kind every time something is posted about some other bike on the market.

  14. @TinMan and David

    “Profit for Investors a mission they perform very well?”

    Watcha smokin?

    Last 4 qtrly earnings are $0.59 0.45 0.08 and 0.30…that’s a $1.42 on a current $28.00 stock and that’s a whopping 5 percent return. With a net income that is now 1/2 of what it was 9 months ago, and a stock price that is down from it’s high of three years ago ($75.00) by more than 50 percent.

    That’s not a mission well performed, that’s a major tax write off. A loss, a loooooser. Follow the money.

    As for who ever expected them to be innovative? Well I would guess that they did, since they embarked on the V-Rod, certainly a water cooled HD is not conventional by HD standards, perhaps by the joint engine development work with Porsche which is now languishing, perhaps with the intro of the misnamed XR750. Two of which were/are touted by HD in a performance light.

    And I’m neither a Boy Racer or an HD hater. I’ve owned em, loved em and hated em all at the same time. Like I said, perhaps it’s best if HD just keeps on buildin what they build. My beef is with the management. I’ve got an old iron 883 XLCH just waiting for this winter for a resto while I enjoy my Concours, and I don’t plan on selling it (the 883), but I sold my HD stock @$68 over two years ago and I have to laugh at it today ($27.92).

    But if I wanted to rag on HD’s, it wouldn’t be about the pork sized seats or the yacht style handling. It be for the well known frailties of an over-priced ride … from the over-sized ports on the old panheads that killed power above 3500 rpms, or the oiling and overheating problems of the Twin Cam, or the cam bearing problems in the early Evo’s, or the weak side bearing on the crank, or the lack of really suitable strength in the V-Rod lower end if pushed to anything over stock Hp. And that specialty prepped 170 horse V-Rod drag bike that could only make a single pass before a teardown? Or the Screamin Eagle big bores that last for a season?? Not my idea of a great way to go either.

    You don’t need to explain it, it just ain’t my cup of motor oil.

    But hey, that’s the fun of owning old-school and dreaming and wrenching it, just like an old 454 Chev or 426 Hemi. Both would get trounced by what you’d probably call euro-trash with engines half that size, but if you got iron in your shorts, enjoy it.

    Back to the MVA divestiture. In plain old simple terms of HD management skill, Msr. Castiglioni slipped Mr Wandell a nice big stick of Italian Sausage.

  15. Motorcycle company stalwarts buy back company from less than enthusiastic owners – sounds like deja vu all over again.

  16. @CantRideEnough
    Now I’m laughing not just amused. You have know idea what I own or ride or whether I think Harley has done a good management job. I only commented on two things: Tinman pointed out Harley is doing everything the can to stop the bleeding and make a profit. That’s still a good thing isn’t it? Secondly there is no end to people that want to belittle everything about Harley and no matter how mundane the news it’s cause for fifty post minimum about how stupid (fill in the blank here) Harley or Harley riders are. I looked at Paul’s post and thought to myself good for MV and good for Harley they both got what they needed to keep going. Why do you care if they made or lost money? As you stated you sold your stock at a good price and I assume a profit. What is the big burr under your saddle?

  17. Exactly, HD will sell over 200,000 bikes this year. BMW or Triumph maybe 50,000 world wide. The Japanese are struggling to export 40,000/month total combined! Speciality exotics, there will always be a market for Duc, MV, Aprilla, Benilli, KTM, Moto…blah blah blah. Low numbers, high cost, expensive and some would say kinda goffy looking.

    Let’em all talk, type and whine. HD sells lots of big, (relatively) slow primarily air cooled, fun to ride and (most importantly) profitable cruisers.

  18. Physically large people with huge, fat hands may not be able to perform brain or heart surgery, but that doesn’t mean they should have a distaste for people with smaller hands and high skills that can do these things.

  19. @David/cigarrz

    I’ve got not much to argue against your post, mine including your handle was prompted more by the apparent agreement with the “Boy Racer” and “rant” against the HD badge.

    ONE of my peeves is misinformation that is repeated as fact. Let’s look at some of the comments like Woodco posted. Here’s my source http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-news/statistics/motorcycle-sales-statistics.htm

    Harley WILL produce approx 200,000 units this year, a decrease of about 15 percent over last, which was another down year. Scroll to the end and you’ll see that Honda sold 22,994 in March, a 15 percent increase, and 12 x 22,994 is 275,00 units. This and other publications show HD sales in quarterly or semiannual figures and foreign production by month, and for some strange reason the HD supporters blindly can’t do 2x or 4x or 12x basic math calculations to compare apples to apples. Similarly, total Jap production in March was 64,711 or 776,000 units. My point being that opinions based on mis-reading and/or mis-quoting figures to support the HD brand only bolsters ignorance.

    My other really really sore spot is, listen closely, I’d actually like to own a new Harley again. If it actually represented a reality of a world class bike in current terms. But it doesn’t …hear me out. There was a time, in a land far, far away, where riding a ‘Glide meant you had the best road bike there was. That was my daddy’s bike. And a ‘sixties XLCH was the 2-wheeled rocket ship of the day, and even when the H1, the H2 and the CB750’s arrived, a set of 12:1 60 over slugs, a set of Sifton cams, Alum pushrods and Titanium lifters and a set of straight pipes would still set things right. That was my bike. Not so anymore.

    Now, the bikes don’t stand for what they are, but what they were. And the R&D development flaws to bring the breed forward through engine development have left performance and comfort stuck in the ’70’s. You can still hot-rod them and degrade the reliability, and that’s cool to a point, but not a very valid one when comparing stocker to stocker.

    Which is why I mentioned the old iron 883 XLCH waiting for my winter resto. Clunky as it is by modern standards, it is actually the real-deal of it’s day, not the shadow of today’s over-hyped marque. Same comparison with today’s ‘Glides…the level of sophistication, power, handling, and comfort are all far from the flag-bearing front runner of yesteryear.

    So the burr up my backside gets a bit more twisted when someone assumes that being critical of HD must be defended by denial (If I half to explain it to you) or by the assumption that I have to solely embrace crotch rockets (Racer Boy types). Hell, I still subscribe to American Iron and V-Twin magazines.

    But it would be really nice if I could buy American, ride American, and be proud that the ride really measured up to the image. It wouldn’t even need to be the best of the best, but it would be nice to be an honest image. It would also be nice to have more of a choice than big and heavy, and bigger and heavier. That’s a management problem, a fixation that killed Buell. My kid can’t buy a Scat or a Sprint as a first bike, the choices aren’t there. HD seems to assume that the market isn’t there, but the sales figures show that there’s a huge market.

    But hey, I’m just sayin. This is a blog/forum, right?

  21. sheesh, doesn’t the American Angst rehash act ever get boring for these guys?

    ps to CRE, the ElectraGlide was never “the best roadbike” even in it’s day, nor the XLCH, but they WERE great bikes, same as todays ElectraGlide and XL’s.

    Fact is Harley staved off what could have been a much worse recession outcome, same as they’ve done for over a century of ups and downs, now lets look forward. I hope the new Blast replacement is a winner for them, they’ve done some great work in the last couple years making the Sportster appeal to a new audience.
    And good luck to both Harley and MV.

  22. geeze can’t we just all get along.. H.D. is H.D AND ALWAYS WILL BE thats not so bad .. considering we have sooo many bikes to choose from… lucky us as motorcylclist . people who love bikes usully like all kinds for different reasons. a real musician likes all kinds of music. personnly i think ten bikes in the garage covers our needs..

  24. I was 100 times more surprised that they bought MV in the first place than that they sold it. Everyone saw a glimmer of hope. Was HD to focus more intently on performance and engineering? Wouldn’t that be something?

    I’m amazed that Harley sells any bikes at all. There are so many of the exact same bike available on the second-hand market for thousands less, many including all the necessary upgrades for free. I think the only thing selling new Harleys now is the fact that they offer such easy credit. Thanks to zero down and low interest they’re leading the rest of the industry in sales. Great strategy, I think.

    Hopefully MV can continue doing what it does best too.

    -todd

  25. Here is another amazingly simple fact; roads in the US are relatively straight wide and grades are strictly controlled in all most all circumstances. Sure there are exceptions and riders search them out. Deals gap would certainly be more fun on a BMW S1000RR riding the 1500 miles for me to get there would not. While we all dream of alpine switchbacks; the reality is we ride American roads. Comfortable cars, SUV’s and motorcycles that can cruise at speed limit for distances that in Europe would include several countries instead of states are what people gravitate to. Some prefer sport touring bikes some prefer Harley’s, both do it in style. The Japanese understand this completely they make upright and leg forward styles. Why anyone is offended that a particular manufacturer doesn’t make the style or level of technology they prefer when others do is hard to understand. I am not going to complain about Harley not offering a MX bike when I can go buy a Honda. If Harley doesn’t fit your needs don’t buy it and don’t complain about it. If Harley is what you want do the mods to make it fit your needs; the suspension the way you want it, brakes, motor, whatever. I have done this with every bike I’ve owned and never thought it was the fault of the manufacturer which ever one it was.

  26. What???
    “My other really really sore spot is, listen closely, I’d actually like to own a new Harley again. If it actually represented a reality of a world class bike in current terms. But it doesn’t …hear me out. There was a time, in a land far, far away, where riding a ‘Glide meant you had the best road bike there was. That was my daddy’s bike.”

    I have my daddys bike. (67 Electra Glide Police Special) I ride my daddys bike. I love my daddys bike, but you sir, have never ridden a 60’s Harley. Otherwise you could not make the above statement.

  27. At least MV came out ahead. When I first heard that HD purchased MV Augusta, I had nothing but thoughts of how they destroyed Aermacchi during the period when Aermacchi was a force to be reckoned with in small bore GP racing.

    Great for MV! As for HD, I still think the water is spinning in the toilet known as upper management.

  28. @jbog I think you have hit on the real disconnect. Fewer everyday know what sixty’s and earlier bikes of any kind were like. If you were riding then you had made the decision to live with the shortcomings and fix or work around them; for the joy of riding. Now if it not turnkey, 100,000 mile checkups somethings wrong. Buy the bike that gives you what you want and expect and let fellow bikers do the same.

  29. HD needed the cash due to the ongoing problems with low sales and picking up the tab for all those finance deals during the stupid time of people buying stuff they coudln’t afford, and sold MV. The deal was necessary for HD and a good one for Claudio Castiglioni. Maybe Erik Buell will go to MV, maybe not. It’s out of his comfort zone if you ask me. I hope HD and MV both manage to build on what they have. I wouldn’t want to see either marque disappear.

  30. HDs profits are, up. Go to JAMA site (jap auto man ass.) MC exotrts are down %70, 2/3s of thier business. Who cares how many 125s Honda sells in Europe.

  32. I don’t know, David/cigarrz, but I think that’s a misconception. I don’t live anywhere near those long, straight, wide roads and I live in the most populated state in the union (more than Texas and New York combined if you count all the illegals…). We also have the highest number of “riding days” per year. Last I checked it was 365. Manufacturers do not listen to the average rider, they listen to their dealers. The dealers tell the manufacturers to build more of what makes them more profit – large, fast bikes with annual incremental changes that render last year’s model “obsolete”.

    In California there were 732,547 registered motorcycles as of 2006 (close to twice that of Texas, the 2nd highest in the US). Most of those bikes are older models, i.e. less powerful, less expensive, smaller, etc. Many bikes aren’t even available in California, like the TU250, various Chinese brands, or Enfield, and we had to wait for the Versys, now available in very limited quantities. Maybe it’s just too hard to compete with all those perfectly good, $500 CB350s and EX500s that people seem to be perfectly happy with.

    Manufacturers are doing bad because they don’t offer people what they need. Instead, they try to convince them that what they already offer is supposed to be what they want. How could it not be? It’s the biggest, the “Baddest”, the fastest, most expensive bike you can buy right now. “That’s what you Need”. “These are not the droids you are looking for”. Cycle World and the likes with their professional riders who can discern 10mm of lateral engine weight shift just continue to feed the lie (or maybe they make it all up for good print. I’m beginning to wonder.)

    -todd

  33. I wonder how many years the above motorcycle business experts have spent in the motorcycle business.

    Spending cubic hours on Craigslist or working on charity case bikes in your garage is not qualify.

  34. Think Iron, as in Iron But Rally. In 2009 one FLHT DNF, in 2005 one H/D placed 70th, with the best result in 2007: the only H/D rider places third. BMWs and Hondas seem to rule. In 2003 seven H/D’s and One Buell, none better than 31st.
    2001 was a good year for H/D, placing 12th, right behind four BMWs, six Hondas and even one Triumph Tiger.
    B.T.W: the best thing about the old bikes was you could fix everything yourself.

  35. This story was about HD selling off MV Agusta, Can we agree that this was good for both companys?? Lets find some common ground here. Most of us thought HD was Nuts for buying MV in the 1st place, Most of us thought HD was wrong to dump Buell. Its all behind us now, let us hope HD, Buell and MV all prosper in the future!! We have a world of choices, we should rejoice in this fact!!

  36. Well Done.

    Aside from a few remaining misconceptions about reliable sources for investment criteria and perhaps a minor inability to read a 10Q as filed with the SEC instead of reading from 3rd party sources … I’d say it turned out to be a pretty decent exchange of ideas instead of the usual one-liners and quips. A decent response, and appreciation to all whether you agree or disagree with this particular rider.

    One last comment to @jbog… my dear man, the 1966 XLCH sitting in my garage waiting for a resto this winter is a one owner bike. One owner, got that? And “my daddy’s” E’glide was a hand me down that I traded in for it at Warrens Harley in Salinas California. Bud, I rode em and raced em on the street, at the Salinas Drags (home of the Winter Nationals), and at the Salinas Ramblers dirt course when Marvin Heath was president of that fine club of riders.

    Wouldn’t want to rant on, so just let me say I’m glad I logged on here and hope to engage a few more of you with future conversations.

    With respects.

  37. @Todd even the roads in California are relatively wide and straight; true less so than prairie states. I think they all can be traveled at the speed limit by any road bike. Canyon racers are hardly concerned with speed limits. I agree manufacturers seem less than responsive for the reasons you stated but if the dealers don’t sell them they wont ask for them so somebody is buying.
    @Bob Nedoma The fact that few Harley’s compete in the rally is no measure of the road or ride worthiness of a cycle. It is a specialized event and is done by the most dedicated LD riders. You could compete in rally racing with a F150 but a Focus rally car is a better bet. I think you will find lot’s of Saddle sore and bun burner certificates awarded to Harley’s as well. I agree

  38. CantRideEnough,
    I think you are missing my point. I think your 66 XLCH is a wonderful motorcycle, one owner or not. “Your Daddys” E-Glide was a wonderful bike even though it was a hand me down. You imply that Harley managment has taken the wrong path, made monumental mistakes, and now produces something less than the bikes they built in the good old days. I assure you I could agree fully with the first 2/3s of the above sentence.
    Look at it this way, If Harley produced say a 1966 Electra Glide today to cash in on the “nostalgia craze”, and made it exactly the same as they were made in 1966, with same engine, trans, componets, suspension, etc. Can you honestly tell me you would be enamored with the mile long throw between gears, along with the resounding clunk, the pitifully underpowered motor in stock form compared to todays Harleys, the Chris Craft like handleing, especially with a full sheild?
    For todays Harley, or yesterdays Harley, they are what they are, and they are freakin fantastic……if its what you like. I’ll admit I’m weird. Enough tourqe to affect earths rotation, while still nearly being able to count the power stroke of each piston is something that turns me on.
    10,000 rpm, or lean angles that will let me lick the pavement turn me on also. Harleys can’t do that. I have a bike that will do that. I won’t mention the brand for fear of taking this thread on a whole new tangent.
    With three DIFFERENT bikes, you can enjoy just about any style of riding that you like. Eack bike does what it does well. None of them do all three well. sallimsayinman!

  39. The Harley/Japanese/Euro battle will never be won and is sure to go on for the rest of time. We all are motorcyclists with a passion for two wheeled vehicles. Can we agree on that?

    Harley will do what THEY think is the right thing to do for THEM. They do a lot of things right. They have a style, a loyal following and for the most part, large, attractive dealerships.

    The Japanese rule the world of technology and have developed bikes behind our wildest dreams. They change so fast, customers can barely keep up with them.

    The Euros have been at it for ever and their roads and passion have spawned bikes renouned for handling, braking and finish quality.

    There are trends, buyers, roads and magazines to suit all the different choices. I’ll buy what I want, when I want it. I may change my mind next week and the following week, change it again. Who cares.

    I’m not a soldier in Harley Holy war, but I like some of their bikes. The Japanese bikes at this point in time bore me. I always enjoy looking at the Euros bikes just because of the way they make even the smallest details important and good looking.

    I hope everybody stays in business and prospers. And I hope nobody gets hurt riding whatever type of bike suits them. That said, let people that ride a different brand or style of bike just ride the bike of their choice. Give the Harley/Jap thing a frickin’ break.

  40. Good read and enjoy most opinions, but what was the original question? (grin)

    Business strategy is business strategy…

    Wait until (if) they leave WI, that will get some attention.

    I still ride a AMF Shovelhead and love her, EVO and up never tripped my trigger anyway.

  41. Mule,
    Exactly. Love em all for the features you like and exploit each at will!! Hate none, (it’ll eat you up in the long run). I never met a motorcycle I didn’t like……at least a little bit!

  42. a word of advice, the word “Jap” is a pejorative term here in the U.S. and is not considered as an abbreviation for Japanese.

  43. To those who have vented from there heart(?) and not their brain, you have missed the big picture. It’s about money and business, about survival in the business world.

    Fact: Buell , the VRod and MV were not making money
    Fact: Harley Davidson is trapped in a self perpetuating business model of their own creation.
    Fact: To radically change that business model would cause the “faithfull” to raise up in defiance and there ends the cash flow. No cash flow, no company.
    Fact: Buell as a subsidiary of HD is no more, Eric Buell is still working with Harley Davidson to produce racing bikes not far removed from production street bikes.

    I used to ‘Hate” on the Black and Orange, I said all the cliches and nodded approvingly when someone slagged off the Company. As I’ve gotten older, just like life in general, there is more to it than what you can see.

    There are really smart engineers working for HD, just as there are for most major motorcycle companies. There was “transfer” between HD, Buell and MV. which will benefit everyone. No, it may not smack you in the face that the 2012 HD FLHTRI has combustion chamber technology derived from a MV Agusta design or that the next Brutale will use shock absorbtion technology in it’s primary drive derived directly from work done on the V-Rod Muscle but it is/will be there.

    Live and let live people, the reason they make chocolate and vanilla ice cream is so people can eat strawberry!

    As riders we need to support the entire community, not tear at it from the edges. There are those who have no idea what riding in any fashion is about who want nothing more than to rid the world of motorcycles.

    FWIW, in my garage right now is an R65 and R1150RT, a GSX1300R and a FLHT, they will be soon joined by a Tuono.

  44. Thank the Gods of Speed (from the worlds fast Indian) that MV is no longer a part of HD. To qualify bullets people like me aim at HD.
    In Australia you can buy a great Jap cruiser for $15k to $20k, A HD is $25k to $40k plus ! People will say “but HD is better quality” I have seen brand new bikes with 4 different shades of blue, weld splatters on frames and frayed sleaving on oil lines. Add to this that you always see utes (you guys changed the name to pickups, see were they were invented before commenting) following groups of Harleys to pick up the break downs. Now if HD were priced at what there worth and I didnt have to hear the one eyed dribble that you always get from those wearing HD T shirts I may pull my head in and shut the f#*k up ! HD’s are great for what they do but pathetic for what I want, thats why my Suzuki GSX1400 is perfect ! A bike never sold in the USA (your loss)

  45. sdrider,
    The older you get, the more you’ll realize that there is a higher probability that you’ve misunderstood or misinterpreted something that was said, than that someone was trying to intentionally insult you.

    Part 2 of that is, “We do more harm by mistake than we could ever do by intent.”

    In my posts I always refer to Japanese bikes, parts, engineers, my many Japanese friends, co-workers and/or cars as “Japanese”. In using the term “Give the Harley/Jap thing” a frickin’ break”, I was using that to describe a condition, opinion, persuasion, prejudice or how ever you want to term it that it needs to stop for the good of humanity. Not to disrespect any persons of any race, religion or national origin. Comprendez?

    Richard “The Round-eye” Pollock

  46. “Look at it this way, If Harley produced say a 1966 Electra Glide today to cash in on the “nostalgia craze”, and made it exactly the same as they were made in 1966, with same engine, trans, componets, suspension, etc. Can you honestly tell me you would be enamored with the mile long throw between gears, along with the resounding clunk, the pitifully underpowered motor in stock form compared to todays Harleys, the Chris Craft like handleing, especially with a full sheild?”

    I think you completely missed the point… In ’66, what could you have bought that was better in it’s class than the ‘Glide? Maybe a ‘Wing or a Voyager? Sorry, you’ll have to wait almost a decade to buy a ‘Wing. I love my ’88 Concours but sorry, nothing even remotely resembling a Connie until ’86. Personally, I think if I had bought a new bike in ’66, it would have been a Bonnie, but have to admit it’s not in the same league as the ‘Glide.

    Can’tRideEnough was not saying the ’66 Glide would compare to 2010 models, Take a look at what was available in 1966, the ‘Glide was a very high end machine for it’s day. To compare a ’66 Glide to say a 2010 BMW or Concours or Honda ST is pointless. But how does the 2010 Harley stack up against these bikes? Then think of a ’66 Glide compared to a ’66 BMW or any ’66 British, what else was there for large touring bikes in ’66? … forget the Japanese, there was nothing even remotely comparable in ’66.

  47. cant ride enough – you are incorrect on your information on the VROD Destroyer
    They can go much more than one pass without being torn down, if you dont beleive me then go to an AHDRA race like I was just at yesterday.
    One of my friends has one and the tranny took a crap Saturday during qualifying, almost three full years of racing out of it, never opened the motor up or anything.

    Glad to see harley get rid of MV, shame it was after they cut buell.

  48. My understanding is that the sale price for MV was the grand sum of 1 euro or $1.32 at todays exchange rate. Harley is writing off the $39 million purchase price, an additional $70 million in debt they assumed with that purchase, and the cost of modernizing the MV production facility. Total loss around $125 million. You add in the $125 million writedown of Buell and you’re looking at a quarter of a billion dollars over two years. Much of this was totally unneccessary. Buell was at break even financially with some innovative product in the pipeline that could have been a gamechanger. CEO Wandell has acknowledged that no financial analysis was done in support of his decision to close Buell, a possible breach of GAAP (generally accepted accounting principles). As for MV, Harley paid Castiglioni millions to take over MVs debt and spend millions more on production infrastructure and then sell it back to him for a buck thirty two? How does this make sense financially? Consider that Harley also owes Howard Buffet $600 million at 15% interest. I don’t hate Harley but I question whether their present business plan is sustainable over the long term. Yeah I know they had a good quarter, last quarter. Norton Villiers Triumph had a good year in 1968 right before the precipitous slide into oblivion. I sincerely hope I’m wrong, but Harley looks more like the British motorcycle industry all the time.

  49. boy just mention harley davidson and look what happens. that says something right there.. i love em all owned all kinds. as i grow older still like em all for so many reasons comon!!! screw the bizness end of it enjoy the ride. since i srarted riding in 1973 i can’t believe the candy store of bikes they build today . we only dreamed of most of these bikes back then. the youngrer bikers today have manufacturers and builders throwing lthe latest and coolest stuff ot em, this is what motorcyce dreams are mad of. wake up and smell the espresso!!!!!

  50. So why did’nt they brake up M.V like they did Buell ? Now there was a really nice u.s made bike !

  51. @kneeslider

    You sir are the arch flamer:) Put anything about Harley on your site and people get their pants in a gordian knot. This weekend I rented a pair of Harley’s and am taking my dad riding.

    Cheers!

  52. Hey, I’m a Jap, and it’s OK by me if you guys use the term “Jap”.

    Only here, though, right? lulz

  53. It’s my dream to someday own a JAP speedway bike. I want to restore it to jewel like perfection and park it on a wooden stand right next to a restored 360 sidepipe CZ. Then my life will be complete. Well on second thought, there’s this girl that goes on our Saturday bicycle rides………..never mind!

  55. WillyP beat me to it…
    David/cigarzz & jbog, CantRideEnough was speaking in relative terms.

    CantRideEnough – entertaining, man.

    CalH – don’t forget to factor in the millions HD turned down from Bombardier + the money you can’t count in lost sales from legions of Buell fans/owners.

    I don’t dislike HD, but their method of painting themselves into what will become a high-priced niche corner* in a relatively short timeframe is puzzling, regardless of any short-term turn-around.

    *Wandell says HD needs to “focus” on their core. Is the big twin, air-cooled “core” going to sell enough units on its own in 15-20 years to sustain the size of the current company & investors? Even the big 3 saw how complacent they’d become with the SUVs. Innovate in good times and bad or fall behind.

  56. Well Guys, HD must be doing something right, Every Cycle maker on earth is trying to copy their bikes and marketing program!! Are there any Yamaha haters here, they are now trying to sell the lifestyle with their chrome plated cruiser Harley Wanna Bees. Triumph has brought out a Giant Cruiser in the HD style, BMW tried and failed a few years back with their “cruiser”model. Only Ducati is sticking to their own path, and of course the Ducati imitators are legion.

  58. Hoyt,

    I don’t think Wandell could care less where H-D is 15-20 years from now. I think all he cares about is what will keep the board & stockholders impressed ’til he retires in a few years or less.

  59. According to the Wall Street Journal, ” (…) the Securities and Exchange Commission revealed the company essentially paid MV Agusta’s former owners to take it back.
    In the filing Harley said it “contributed 20 million Euros to MV as operating capital” that was put in escrow and is available to the buyer over a 12-month period. ”

    I’m not an expert in high level business, but that really looks like the MV episode has been miserably managed by HD … that’s not hating, nothing against the bikes or their riders, just questions about how this company is managed …

  61. Tinman – “HD must be doing something right”.

    “Something” is the key word and the point. Many think there is much more they could & should be doing with the last decade+ worth of hundreds of Millions in net income, each year.

  62. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, All the metrics know that the only way to get your cruiser to sell is to make them look as much like HD as possible. Roadking…Roadstar, hmmm. Suzuki suddenly changes thier model names to cubic inches sizes (M109, C50), The Kawasaki Voyager and Honda Shadow RS are basicly fake (poor selling) HDs.

  63. woodco100 – is that all you got? “x, y, z company copies one bike from HD.” What are those other companies doing while Wandell “focuses” ?

    The point (again) is that HD has done very little with the 10+ years of consecutive Hundreds of MILLIONS of NET INCOME.

    It seems foolish for a transportation business of this size to have a narrow source of revenue, particularly with uncertain transportation energy factors that will likely influence style, engineering, & sale$ on a macro-level.

  64. … it is comical that while HD “faithful” proudly walk around with 105 years on their badge, T-shirt, or vest, that most are oblivious to the next 30-40 years, let alone the next hundred.

    Can you seriously see a Road King selling in higher numbers using an a-c big twin 40 years from now? Do you prefer HD eventually dissolves into a small company producing only cruisers in very small numbers, akin to some small businesses producing 1900s-era motorcycles today?

  65. It’s not all imitation. Though I don’t quite care for any of the bikes you mentioned but they do sell… a lot of them. There must be something different enough to be considered “better” to all those tens of thousands of people who chose the metric cruiser over the Harley. I don’t know what drove those sales, be it price, style, image, power, comfort, quality, availability, options, or whatever. Harley should be looking at how they can address those things that lost their sale. If Harley builds twice as many cruisers than all their competition combined then they stand to increase production by 50% if they can win back that portion of the market they lost.

    Maybe that’s an oversimplification of market forces but they would still stand to gain a larger market share (of a segment they understand) doing that than owning a specialty performance brand like MV.

    BTW, if I would have known the details of the MV sale I would have bought it myself, offering at least DOUBLE what Castiglioni paid.

    -todd

  66. Well Harley lost 125 million killing Buell, 165 million on MV and they owe 650 million to Warren Buffet at 15% interest for there failing HD Financial Services Division. Can Harley survive without HDFS? They were giving loans to anyone who could crawl in the door. That is all in the past now. Harley sales were always inflated as they count a sale when the bike goes to the dealer – not the customer. Harley Davidson motorcycles are overpriced. Why would I pay 2010 prices for a 1960 technology? I do not want to dress up like an idiot in a pirate outfit and ride a motorcycle with no mufflers just to try and get noticed. When the baby boomer quit buying Harleys they will be out of business because very few young riders are stupid enough to buy one.

  67. WillyP………or could that be WillieG in disguise????
    “I think you completely missed the point… In ’66, what could you have bought that was better in it’s class than the ‘Glide? Maybe a ‘Wing or a Voyager? Sorry, you’ll have to wait almost a decade to buy a ‘Wing. I love my ’88 Concours but sorry, nothing even remotely resembling a Connie until ’86. Personally, I think if I had bought a new bike in ’66, it would have been a Bonnie, but have to admit it’s not in the same league as the ‘Glide.”

    Oh, I don’t know….BMW, Triumph, BSA, Moto Guzzi. All have strengths and weakness when compared to the Harley, or each other. What’s all the “hate” about? That’s all I don’t understand.
    Cripes man, Fred63 here sounds like nothing would make him happier than a total collapse of a company he personally dislikes, who produces products, that he doesn’t like which attracts buyers that he doesn’t like, who dress in ways that he doesn’t like, and ride with out mufflers…..gasp…..What about all the union pukes who build the damn things. You forgot to rag on them.
    I speak only beauty, truth and love for my fellow man……AS LONG AS YOU AGREE WITH ME WE WON’T HAVE A PROBLEM HERE…..OK?!?!?!

    Trying to be humorous here folks, hope it reads that way.

  68. I’m over the ” I hate HD for tossing the Buell brand ” Smart to cut your losses and move on . But I won’t be buying a HD simply because they don’t build what I like . since I’m getting older and grayer I’m keeping my XB12R just for short hops and adding a BMW GS for long ones . Good luck HD .