There was talk a while back about Harley and Ducati getting cozy, looks like another Italian marque is in their sights. Forbes Magazine is reporting that Harley Davidson is in advanced talks to buy Italy’s MV Agusta!
the deal would see Harley-Davidson buy out most of the debt of MV Agusta, currently at around 200 million euros — 130 million euros held by banks and 70 million euros held by suppliers.
Thanks for the tip, Doug!
Link: Forbes
Related: Ducati Harley Merger?
Tom says
Will Harley change the name to MV Aermacchi? 🙂
Tom
CK says
Why? So they can hold the entire MV Augusta product line hostage to the Euros? (Reference the HD XR1200 that will only be sold in Europe)
Walt says
How will they fit highway pegs and sissy bar to the MV? And how can they convince the glowering lifestyle clan that a four cylinder inline ain’t necessarily a rice burner? Can’t wait to see . . .
todd says
I’m thinking Harley is reading the road signs and needs to diversify their portfolio before it’s too late. This acquisition will give them all sorts of in-house technical capabilities and knowledge.
I doubt there will be any cross branding, just a way to keep income flowing from a growing market while maintaining the sunset brand and image that is important to their heritage.
-todd
coho says
[begin foodgeek]
The MV actually is a rice burner, but the rice is Arborio or Vialone Nano rather than sticky long grain.
[/end foodgeek]
lostinoz says
Funny, I always considered them more “pasta rockets” than rice rockets.
So, If HD bought out MV, and the new initals would be HDMV right?
More importantly, which attributes would they decide to keep? The leaks? the constant break downs? the good cornering? the speed?
no they couldnt keep those good things, thats right HD is buying MV, not the other way around.
One thing I’m SURE theyre going to keep, the EXTREMELY high prices.
justpete says
HA! lostinoz beat me to it. They will still be the most expensive bikes around.
Loomis says
Maybe the bean counters at HD are expecting the american dollar to continue to drop like a pathetic useless rock. So they decided to dump a load of those pathetic useless rocks and buy a european company.
Smart move, I’d say.
hoyt says
time to counter some of the haters and sarcasm….
HD, whether you love ’em, hate ’em, or are indifferent, has some clever engineering and a quality-built product.
Separate all of the other stuff (prices, the black and orange crowd, posers, lack of model diversity, etc.) and you will see that it is pretty cool to be able to continue to build something like a Road King.
It is 2008 and the Road King still holds its own in the eyes of those who know what they are looking at. The engine has more engineering than many give credit.
I have bashed HD at times for their lack of catalogue diversity, but this move to purchase MV Augusta is very interesting. Have you seen the “turbo” video series called “Twist the Throttle” ?
There is impressive machinery and know-how in the Augusta factory. Add this to the impressive machinery and know-how in Milwaukee and the American motorcycle scene has a chance to raise the bar across many genres.
http://turbo.discovery.com/twist-the-throttle/twist-the-throttle.html
Trojanhorse says
@loomis – if you want to look at dollar vs. euro value, it is actually a very stupid move…there’s never been a more EXPENSIVE time to buy a European company. No doubt HD has other motives, although given the current state of the economy and slowdown in luxury good purchases, buying a high-end moto manufacturer is highly questionable. Either they dilute the brand to bring it to the masses, or they keep it as a niche player in a shrinking niche – either one is a losing situation.
Loomis says
Trojan,
I disagree.
The only way it’s a dumb move is if the dollar rebounds and continues that trend over the long run. It doesn’t matter what the exchange rate is currently. It’s what’s expected to be the exchange rate tomorrow and next year. HD apparently is betting the trend will continue to be in the euro’s favor.
Some of HD twincam engine internals are german built. Maybe HD is looking for a way to quit farming out their manufacturing to expensive outside sources. The incentive to do so will only get stronger as the dollar falls against the euro. I’d say HD is very smart. Look for a fancy new buel to not have rotax built engines anymore and instead start having MV built engines in the not too distant future.
Trojanhorse says
hmmmm….I see what you’re saying, but it DOES matter what the current exchange rate is, because that’s the rate applicable to the purchase transaction. And, a long-term dollar slide would only be relevant when HD eventually sold MV, because all else being equal it would be getting relatively “more” money than it had given up.
Also, buying the expertise of an engine company like Rotax is always cheaper (in anything but the very long term) than buying a company and production facility, and doing it yourself…why do you think companies like Aprilia and KTM use Rotax, Bimota uses Ducati, etc…….
Not trying to be a pill, but economically it is very hard to justify this decision without some additional info.
jaxl650 says
Maybe H-D will start a sporting dealership line for MV and Buell, and move its Buells out of the H-D FringeMarts. Buell owners often don’t like the H-D dealer experience (Buell? how do you spell that?).
Trojanhorse says
edit on my previous post: shouldn’t have said “only”, because obviously a dollar slide will affect the relative price of purchased engines. I just don’t believe that Harley’s engine cost on one model of Buell, and some internal parts, could possibly be enough to justify on its own the purchase of MV.
Mr. Tanshanomi says
Didn’t HD try to run an Italian company once before?
Loomis says
HD has shareholders.
If the dollar is going to continue to tank(and I think it will) then having some of the company’s assets in foreign currency will boost harley’s stock value(in dollars) as the dollar drops. I think, I’m not an investment guru. Seems to me this will make american stock holders think harley is doing something great even when the reality is they are merely holding steady. So a dollar slide will affect stock values IMMEDIATELY, not just when HD decides to unload MV for the profit(in dollars)
Also, if there’s an MV dealer network in place in europe, HD could force them to carry cheap imported american harleys(due to a weak dollar) and sell lots of them.
However, if the dollar is currently at it’s low, and from here on it only gets better…then HD is going to lose. I would say it’s a safer bet to bet on HD than to bet against HD. We can argue for a long long time on the merits of the product HD produces. But one thing we CAN’T argue(with any credibility) is that HD management is a bunch of fools that don’t know how to run a business or turn a profit. Ever since the company was taken back from AMF, it’s been nothing but one grand slam after another.
But I suppose every winning streak must end sooner or later.
OMMAG says
Hmmmm.. HD operating an Italian bike company …. didn’t we go through this once before ???
hoyt says
Hopefully this relationship will help bring the MV triple to market.
Nicolas says
Agree with Loomis, HD is probably not a model in the motorcycle industry in terms of “what you have vs. what you pay” but they certainly are in terms of commercial success and management.
There are certainly people who know wat they do at the HD’s HQ, but the overall operation probably doesn’t aim to benefit to the final customer (you) but to the stockholders …
Now, back to sarcasm, the midlife crisis guys who buy Harley are also seen on Ducatis … So if you’re HD, instead of losing the customers who finally prefer the italian stallion to the american horse, why not proposing them an alternative that you also own ?
atom says
I didn’t see this coming. HDMV is an interesting idea. I see Buell and MV Agusta getting along better in the same dealership than HD and Buell.
I really doubt there will ever be an MV engine in a Buell chassis. Erik Buell’s marketing places Buell as “real world” bike while MV’s live in a romantic (language) fantasy world so there would be little competition between them.
MV is probably running out of money developing the rumored triple and may be a relative bargain. If the dollar will be continuing to decline relative to the Euro, buying a Euro company is better sooner than later.
Over the last 25 years, Harley has done a good job of nurturing and growing a boutique sportbike brand into a distinct, prestigious, and cost-competitive brand. Hopefully, they can do the same with MV.
justpete says
Harley should be worrying about what they just did to their own Motors. I’ve read a few articles and talked to some mechanics about the new 96″ motor. Apperantly they removed the inner cam bearings and are running it off the a sleeve on the case itself. They run 10 degrees hotter and as we all know. Hot is not the way to go with an air cooled engine. Some company has already come out with a kit to put the bearing back in. But who wants to buy a new bike and immediatly fix it. Dont get me wrong, I own an H-D and would like to buy another one. Just not a new one anymore!
todd says
Not many engines run cam bearings. In a low RPM motor like a HD that doesn’t have cam chain tensioners (or cam chains) I see it as an effective cost saving move.
Removing cam bearings lowers friction, allows for lighter valve springs and less wear on the cam lobes. If the engines run 10 degrees hotter as you state that would most likely be due to a leaner mixture, higher compression, and retarded ignition timing to help with emissions compliance. I’d be more concerned with head gasket leaks than cam journal failure.
-todd
OnApaleHorse says
loomis-“…cheap imported american harleys…”
lol! Oh it hurts, buts those words are funny! I kinda choked on my beer when I read that… OW! shot outta my nose and even my eyes a little. Still funny… but OWWW!..