The Mission One electric motorcycle, brought lots of comments about styling, range, sound (or rather the lack of it) and everything else but only a few of you were interested in the torque numbers. Mission Motors cites figures of 100 foot pounds of torque everywhere from zero to 6500 rpm which translates, according to their figures, to speeds of 0 to about 60 mph. How much torque is that, exactly?
The March 2009 issue of Motorcyclist magazine has a cover story comparing the new 2009 V-Max and the 2009 B-King. Here’s what they say about the V-Max:
Acres of bottom end torque make the ‘Max feel ridiculously quick on the street but overpower the phat rear Bridgestone at the strip. Nothing else cuts a swath of triple digit torque this wide.
They might soon have to qualifiy that statement with, “nothing gasoline powered cuts a swath of triple digit torque this wide.” The V-Max delivers 109.7 foot pounds at 6500 rpm but it doesn’t break into triple digit torque until about 4500 rpm, below that, the Mission One has more, while the B-King, tops out at 97.5 foot pounds, never breaking 100.
The V-Max, of course, brings just the right mix of muscular looks, lumpy idle and the exhaust sounds bikers expect, the Mission One, on the other hand, at idle, … well, it doesn’t idle, it just sits there making no noise whatsoever, with maybe a light to tell you the power is on, there’s no aural symphony for the senses. There’s no indication that you have more torque instantly available, should you decide to call on it, than the big, hulking V-Max. The styling is hi-tech sportbike not muscle bike, it’s more Dr. Jekyll, Mr Hyde is well hidden.
Think, too, about where that torque is available on the Mission One, right down there at low speeds where you really want to roll on hard, down in the speed range where you often find yourself wanting to accelerate, with no need to stab at the shift lever to get some revs up, you just twist and go.
Is there a drawback to all of this torque? Yep, I see a big one, initially the torque will be so irresistible, range will suffer, constant hard acceleration will bring big smiles to the rider while drawing the batteries down faster than really necessary but that may be something owners adjust to after a while and with a restrained right wrist, the range will be fine. (As an aside, the V-Max doesn’t go much over 100 miles before you need to look for a gas station …)
Personally, I like pipes that sound good, a deep rumble is always satisfying and the right looks can add a lot, too, but the approaching era of electric motorcycles may require an adjustment in thinking, motorcyclists may soon have to get their heads around the idea that quiet can be quick, … really quick.
netjustin says
Pardon the ignorance, but a detail that would be important to me is this; Do electric bikes actually make any noise? If they do, is it loud enough to be audible to other vehicles on the street, and on-highway? This to me is a critical safety consideration as anything other than an audible motorcycle is a death bicycle on our public highways.
The blind driver ratio might only be 1:100 in other states, but here in California, and especially in my neck in the central coast region the ratio is much, much higher. It’s somewhere along the lines of 2:100 or even 3:100. That’s three blind, dumb, or otherwise inobservant automobile drivers for every 100. Much less of those drivers are deaf, and having ridden 10-15 hours per week for the last seven months, without a loud exhaust I would have been mauled or killed by now after being dragged for miles under the chassis of a vehicle, the driver still unnerved over the “speed bump” they hit while swerving into the fast lane.
Enough of these run-on sentences. I want to here some noise from a battery bike.
Marshall says
I know these things can come and go, but I’m incredibly excited about the fact that I’m starting an engineering career (currently undergrad ME at University of Michigan) at a time like this. I just wrote up a cover letter and sent my resume off to Mission. I’m trying to get an internship this summer and I would do just about anything to work on/near that machine! Enertia already blew me off, but I’m a California guy anyways…
I think many of the comments posted about the other Mission article were spot-on. The question of what the world’s energy infrastructure and usage will look like in 50 or 100 years is an incredibly interesting one and impossible to answer now. Still, these circumstances provide an awesome opportunity for people to try out their ideas. I think this one is a pretty big deal.
daddyc479 says
I believe they are quite, I read an article where the blind (not pc correct?) asked for some sort of noise maker for the Toyota Prius as they could not hear it approaching….i’m guessing in a city. Also the guy that built the elec. drag bike, his video shows him crashing but it didn’t sound that loud to me.
As for this bike… why do all these things look SOOO RIDICULOUS!
I get the idea to make it look new… but form should follow function. This thing, no matter how cool tech wise… I would never look at to buy, because it looks like someone threw it together. Design… IMO… should be sexy… so you what to be seen on it not ashamed to be seen near or on. Look at the Tesla… cool…right…Prius not so much…
greybeard says
Don’t think I’d want to ride anything with only 2 wheels that developed 100 lbs.ft of torque from 0 rpm.
Talk about pounding yourself into the ground!
Jeff Banks says
The real difference is that the V-max actually exists outside of a rendered jpeg-looking picture. And it doesn’t cost $70,000 theoretical dollars either.
kneeslider says
Jeff, go back and check out the Mission One post, scroll down for the video from the TED2009 conference. There seems to be someone sitting on that jpeg rendering.
Chris says
The other question is how rapidly does the torque curve fall off after 6500 RPM? Electric engines have tons of torque in the low range, but torque rapidly falls off on the high end of the RPM scale, which blunts overall horsepower ratings. That hurts acceleration.
Bruce says
Has anyone considered the fact that the VMax has a six speed gearbox to amplify it’s 100 ft-lb of torque in the lower speed ranges. I don’t know what the ratios are, but even at low rpm, the toque to the rear wheel would be huge.
Ry_Trapp0 says
give me the slower bike with the engine. i could have just as much fun on a 50 as i could a liter bike, its the visceral experience that makes it enjoyable, not just the speed or acceleration.
paulinator says
I says 100ft.lbs to 6500 rpm. HP = torq
paulinator says
It says 100ft.lbs to 6500 rpm. HP = torque x rpm / 5252 or 123.7 HP….devide that by efficiency, then multiply that by 746 and devide by voltage. I bet that machines has got some big copper parts in it.
C.P.T.L. says
Considering the current sophistication of audio equipment, especially in the realm of deep bass, I imagine it would not be too difficult to synchronize digital sound to the RPMs of an electric motorcycle; with the appropriate speakers, a subwoofer… such a system could be quite realistic.
And you would have a volume control or ‘silent mode’ driving; downloadable sounds – George Jetson’s car sound, for instance. I’m surprised the Japanese haven’t heavily developed the idea for hybrid autos, or, at least, that we haven’t heard of them doing so.
Chris says
I don’t know what I would say to the idea of fake noise
Ry_Trapp0 says
i dont care how realistic it sounds, im still going to know that im on an electric bike. besides, your also missing the little “problems” with IC engines that add to the experience, all of the vibrations and subtlies. ‘call me old fashioned’, but, while electric is definatly becoming viable, i just couldn’t get my self to replace the good ol’ dino juice burner. i would love to have an electric for the daily commute, but i dont know if it coulkd ever replace the ‘toys’.
Dave says
They have more in common than torque, they are both souless pieces of tripe. No one will be trying to find either one in 100 years.
QrazyQat says
Pardon the ignorance, but a detail that would be important to me is this; Do electric bikes actually make any noise? If they do, is it loud enough to be audible to other vehicles on the street, and on-highway?
Have a listen: Killacycle on a 7.89 s @ 168 MPH run.
Thure says
Killacycle, dragracing as a silent sport. Kind of odd, but prolly just because we are accustomed to loud exhausts.
The comparison of Vmax vs electric bike torque, I would like to point out that a conventional bike has an app. 3:1 reduction in first gear hence three times more torque available at takeoff. Going up thru the gears this advantage disappears. I would still like to try an electric bike to see if that theory is correct though.
FREEMAN says
All this crying about a noiseless electric bike is just ridiculous. There’s no proof that suggests whether a motorcycle is safe based on how much noise it makes. Don’t be ridiculous.
T-Ray says
One of the common excuses 4wd owners state for owning their Urban Assault Vehicles is the higher vantage point. Of course, this vantage point is at the expense of anyone who happens to own a lower vehicle. I feel like the same argument can be applied to noise – it’s already pretty hard to hear a bike’s pipes over your generic cage engine. Now imagine the roads of the future where transportation is near silent and our safety is augmented by all of the locust-swarm mimicry technology, infra-red/radar object tracking etc that we can bring to bear…I like it! With all due respect, I must confess to some amusement at those who will “miss the vibrations” and if 100 ft/lbs of torque from go to whoa isn’t visceral…
Hawk says
Awww heck … Just put two Stebel horns on it. Watch the inattentive cagers turn into the nearest laundry.
Motoxyogi says
From what i remember of my electrical engineering, induction motors like the one specified for the mission one suck up a huge amount of juice going from zero to whatever rpm, at idle i imagine that it would be spinning at maybe a couple of thousand rpm and use a cvt to get those torque figures. I know the prius uses two different electrical motors for different speeds. if anyone knows more i’d like to hear from them.
Spartandude says
I used to be incredulous about loud pipes and safety, but going from a 600cc honda shadow with stock pipes to a 750cc honda shadow with cobra pipes (much louder) I stopped getting cagers swerving into my lane. I commute in Houston traffic at rush hour and used to have a crash avoidance from inattentive cagers approximately twice a week (horns do help, but the bike’s horn is wimpiy). Now I have had one cager (Ford F-250 with nobby oversized tires, lift kit, talking on a cell phone while eating a McDonald’s burger) encroach into my lane.
That being said I would gladly trade for an electric as long as the range is >110 miles and the price is under 10gs.
As previously mentioned the transmission of the VMax should allow more force and accelleration, but there is the shifting blip that has 0 acceleration that will allow the electric to make up time.
As for generation of the electricity; here in Texas you can opt for all wind/solar/biomass electric production and then not care about the energy used (from a CO2 standpoint).
Duke says
All you need is a playing card and a clothes pin.
ep says
i’m curious as to how the throttle operates? is it linear i.e. 10% throttle yields 10% of the max torque (10lb/ft)? if so how many positions does the throttle have? what is the minimum input?
with 100lb/ft of torque on top from the get go, i’d think TCS would be a given.
very exciting though. if we’re talking about fake bike sound effects there’s really only one answer. tron!
JSH says
The whole “loud pipes save lives” crap is just an excuse used to annoy everyone around you. Loud pipes have very little effect in front of your motorcycle where it counts. Unless you have something behind you to reflect sound waves forward all loud pipes do is annoy people behind you. This effect can be clearly heard as a motorcycle with open exhausts passes you. As the motorcycle approaches the noise is audible but the intake noise is more pronounced than exhaust. As it passes and pulls away those open pipes are deafening and very noticeable. If loud pipes were really to save lives one would point forward and one back.
I’ve had obscenely loud motorcycles in the past. My 1996 ZX-7rr had a full titanium race exhaust without a baffle. Riding without earplugs was simply out of the question. I sold that motorcycle to buy a BMW R1150R. The stock exhaust is less than 70 dB as measured with a meter or barely more than the 65 dB ambient noise in the industrial park I worked in. Going from obnoxiously loud to barely audible exhausts had no effect on drivers not noticing me. (At the time I commuted daily on the motorcycle as I didn’t have a car.)
Burphel says
In the absence of a real study showing that loud pipes actually help, I’m gonna have to put myself firmly in the “disbelieve” column. Cages are designed to isolate outside noise so you can concentrate on your music, cellphone, or a nice nap. A driver with their windows up and Britney/T-Pain/Metallica/Rush (Limbaugh) playing at full volume is going to be just as oblivious to this as they are to a hog with straight pipes. I’m a recent convert, and I sure as hell don’t remember ever hearing a bike that I didn’t already see.
As for electric bikes in general, this is an interesting proof of concept, and manages to even pass for practical from a commuter or pure sport rider point of view. I think they’ve got a ways to go in terms of range though, before anyone who does even short road trips is going to want one. 150 miles is great on a gas bike because you can fill up anywhere and it takes under 5 min. When charging times are measured in terms of hours, and you have to find a place to plug in for that time, they’re going to have double or triple that to make the daily range of even a casual tourer. I would imagine it’s doable with current tech by “re-gearing” the bike for a top speed of 90 or so and adding more batteries. I can’t help visualizing an extension cord strung out of a motel window to something that looks vaguely like a sport-tourer, to charge it up for the next day’s ride.
The other question, is how much of an improvement in environmental terms are electric bikes compared to simply making more efficient, cleaner gas engines? Sure, the bike itself is zero emission, but what about the power plant that’s charging it? I’d love to see a comparison of the emissions from a coal or natural gas power plant needed to run one of these bikes for a day vs. the emissions for the day of a modern gas bike that meets CA or Euro standards. It may be that the electric bike works out thanks to the economy of scale, but it might just be that the tighter tolerances and small-engine efficiency of the gas bike is still more environmentally friendly right now, along with being more practical. If you’re really concerned with conservation, I’m willing to bet the world would be better off if we all rode Ninja 250’s or something similar.
Dangerous Daveous Dave says
Of course if these bikes ever become mainstream, the aftermarket techies will develop sound systems as “fast and mean” sounding as you like. Alternate sound tracks for the situation, or mood of the moment. 2-stroke, 4-stroke, singles, twins, triples and more, radial aircraft, jet, rocket…you name it. Surround Sound, Bose speakers, big booming woofers with rap syncopation…yeah, that’s it. Latin rhythms, C&W, classical & opera for the elite, Reggae for medicinal marijuana devotees, German marching songs, Buddhist chants, the possibilities are endless!
spanler says
I have ridden electric motorcycles and I welcome the silent ride. It is much more like sailing, skateboarding, snowboarding, other un motorized high speed activities. It feels much more organic and free. As far as other drivers not hearing you, nothing has changed, pay attention, continue to drive defensively and don’t rely on your exhaust to pronounce your existence. Most drivers have the radio cranked up and can’t hear you anyway. Motorcycling isn’t about wanting people to look at you and hear your machine. It’s about having fun and enjoying yourself. With silent machines, I predict more people will want to ride in scenic areas and enjoy the natural beauty without the noise pollution.
QrazyQat says
All this crying about a noiseless electric bike is just ridiculous. There’s no proof that suggests whether a motorcycle is safe based on how much noise it makes. Don’t be ridiculous.
Besides the fact that, as the clip I posted shows, electric bikes are not silent (at least powerful ones) I agree with this. In fact, I’d not be surprised that loud bikes can cause a problem as often they cure one, by startling drivers.
Now drivers should definitely not be in a startling mood, just like they should pay attention to bikes, but then they should anticipate more of everything and they mostly don’t do that well at all (if at all). Having spent some time riding bikes in Thailand (and lately Bali too) it’s refreshing to have car and truck drivers who are aware of bikes. I find it comfortable to ride there (much less so in Bali due to the dangerous passing style used mostly by bikes) even though they really don’t pay much attention to traffic laws. For the most part they are at least aware of bikes and the idea of bikes and what they do.
OT but while I’m mentioning riding in those places, it’s also nice to not have to worry about dogs actively trying to screw you up. They sometimes do wander across a road at the wrong time (although most don’t since they don’t survive if they do it too often) but it’s nice, compared to my experience in the USA, to see a dog in a yard or lounging right by the road and not worrying about the mutt chasing me when I go by.
todd says
The VMAX has a first gear ratio of 2.375 and a final drive ratio of 1.509. In first gear that 97.5 foot-pounds of torque is multiplied to 349 lb/ft at the rear wheel. The electric bike must have a final drive ratio of 3.25:1 if it can do 150 MPH at 6500 RPM with 190/55-17 tires. So that means it has around 325 lb/ft at the rear wheel, pretty close to the VMAX. The MAX has a published wet weight of 680 pounds, the M-One is estimated around 480 pounds (“30 to 40 pounds heavier than a normal sportbike”).
MAX, 1.95 pounds per pound/foot (excluding rider)
M-One, 1.48 pounds per pound/foot plus you don’t have to waste precious time shifting.
Mission One would beat a VMAX at theoretical acceleration – assuming it can use all that torque without spinning the tire or lifting the front end. That brings up the problem that we would need to consider more factors…
The Mission One would make plenty of noise; a large contributor of noise on a stock motorcycle at speed is the chain and tires.
-todd
Walt says
I’d guess the “loud pipes save lives” effect gains maybe a 1% safety advantage for loud pipers. I have as much statistical evidence for my view as I’ve seen from the loud pipe advocates. For all the reasons cited — other highway noise, car stereos, cell phones, sun glare, sloppy Big Macs, cage windows up, intoxication, yadda yadda — crap drivers will keep turning in front of and merging into riders, loud pipes or not.
I ride with a headlight modulator and a Bad Boy (Stebel) air horn. I don’t count on either one to keep me safe. That’s what the lump between my shoulders is for.
And the irritation loud pipes cause among the citizenry hurts all riders.
Len says
100lbs torque thorughout the rev range does not sound correct for an electric motor and since it has only one gear I think that means poor acceleration no matter where in the rev range you are
paulinator says
Hi Len,
The flat torque is actually typical of a 3-phase motor coupled with a variable frequency (VF) drive. This type of drive can take a DC current and manipulate it into the required sine wave output. The narrower the wave spacing-the faster the RPM. 100 ft.lbs of uninterupted torque at the small sprocket will make any bike (or small car) very motivated.
Spaceweasel says
Thanks for the math, Todd. It is interesting to see the (theoretical) specs of this e-cycle matching up with the real world vmax.
Count me in the anti loud pipes contingent. If nothing else, the damage they do to the bikers place in the mindset of the public at large is reason enough to tone it down. Being obnoxious is the quickest route to getting outlawed. Whether thats silly speeds or stunting on populated roads, or straight/race pipes on your bike… if we want to keep riding, we need to respect others.
Azzy says
Meh, if you want noise.. cram in an extra battery, a speaker, and an ipod or some other source.
Kaze says
We are just going to have to figure out what to do about the sound, or lack of it. It is the look of the thing that I don’t like. Though I am not really riding along with any environmental band-wagons, even a goofy bastard can see that the world’s health and resource drain require us to either stop driving our beloved internal-combustion cars and bikes REALLY soon, or keep riding them in an ugly world not worth touring through. I for one would rather just switch now and enjoy riding an electric bike and get on with it. If we switch now, in about 10 years most of us riders who can’t afford new bikes will have some good used ones to choose from, and more variation in style and design will appear.
Sound and look are a big thing for a lot of us. However, somehow I ended up on a BMW K100 (not my preference, but it was there and was cheap) and with barely any sound at all, and not really a look I preferred, I just had to focus on something else — namely more on the places I wanted to go, the wind in my face, etc. Not really sure how extreme things are going to get for us in terms of environment in the next 50 or more years, but I would rather ride a soundless bike and still be able to ride one than say, view the old roads from a train seat because there ARE no more bikes…that would suck the most.
roberto says
hey, beware bali is going to change soon, I just took the dealership for a brand of electric motorcycles here.
Interestingly enough balinese people always say it is dangerous when told about the lack of noise. Dogs as well have a strange stare when you pass (provided you are the only one passing…anyone who has been in bali knows how often is that…)
I think that is just a residual paradigm and can be healed…
About installing speakers…You could as well install some smoke pipes to polute if you are missing those things of the past…