Head out to your garage, be very quiet and listen carefully. Is your motorcycle making any promises? If you bought a Honda or a Harley, or any other brand, I bet you had some expectation of what you were getting based on the name, or if you didn’t this time, perhaps there was a time in the past when you did. The company name, the brand, told a story about what the company was supposed to be, at least that is what the marketing department wants it to do, so the question becomes, did the bike make or break that promise?
Seth Godin, who writes a lot about such things, defines brand as “a promise made over time.” When you think about it that way, you quickly realize some companies have no idea, or simply forgot, any promises were ever made while others take it very seriously. That promise is why old names are resurrected, the new owners either want to benefit from promises made in the past, deliver on them today, or ideally, both.
New motorcycle companies just starting out should think very carefully about what promise they intend to make, since no time has passed to make it clear, they have to tell prospective customers who they intend to be and then make sure they fulfill that promise. Established motorcycle companies need to think about it, too, their intention may be one thing while the bikes delivered have shown they promise something else, entirely. Is it a promise of cutting edge engineering, reliability, power, performance, economy, tradition, great design, a combination of the above or something else altogether?
I began thinking about this because of an interesting post I read this morning, and a few comments there have some other ways of defining brand:
” … they are what is said about you when you are not in the room.”
“Replace the word “brand†with “reputationâ€, and you have a much clearer picture”
“Your brand is not what you say it is. Your brand is what your customer says it is.â€
It’s something to think about. What does your Honda or Harley, Suzuki or Triumph promise to deliver? What do any of the many brands out there want you to believe? Do they keep their promises? Forget what the company thinks, what do you think the various motorcycle brands promise you?
skizick says
Having ridden a DOT (Devoid of Trouble) for a bit I can surely say the brandname has little to do with what one really gets
Mike D. says
I think Honda’s company totally reflects there product..on the other hand HD sells there idea to the people…
Tin Man 2 says
Anyone who buys a Harley, (it is the best selling Big Bike in the world) gets exactly what they expect. Same goes for all the big companys, Try to change your Image at your own risk, look at HDs less than stellar sales with the XR1200, or Hondas Fury, both decent bikes that just dont fit the Image of the parent companys.
Kenny says
Any product in the late 80’s and 90’s with a honda logo on its side lived up to their reputation for reliability, a lot of things since then don’t live up to their rep
Jar says
Brand is huge.
The struggle between what they want us to believe vs. what we actually believe, is a battle waged on all fronts and at all levels within corporate America – from the marketing and sales hodges, to the product development guys, to the assembly folk, to the service techs, and down onto the retail floor. All encompassed within the driving “Brand Experience” thought. When it comes to bikes, I think most manufacturers have earned their reputation and it largely serves their brands well – the customer’s expectation is met whether he buys a Honda, HD, KTM, or Duc.
To me, the more curious question, is at what price point does brand matter to most consumers? When a guy buys a toothbrush, does he care if it’s Colgate or OralB? Does a Sunbeam toaster or a GE model make a bit of difference? Jump into the electronics side of things, and does the Emerson name on the LCD mean more or less than the Toshiba name? If so, what is the name worth, and what is the premium one is willing to toss out just for the name – or rather, the percieved value based on a given brand’s reputation?
Beats me, but I bet if a guy could answer that one accurately, consistently, he’d likely have a whole lot of free time on his hands with a great big bankroll to help him figure out how he’d like to spend his days……
coho says
All three of my (1980s) Hondas required minimal mechanical attention and were smooth, quiet and reliable. Both of my (1990s) BMWs provided many tens of thousands of (mostly) trouble free touring. The Yamaha I’ve only had since February, but for a 16hp 200 its fun factor is right up there.
So far my experience has been more or less what I expected from each maker. Not to say that I wouldn’t have had years of fun on Suzukis and Husqvarnas, but I got what I perceived I was paying for.
Lane says
I was in a convenience store wearing a Triumph tee shirt when the Lady behind the counter asked me if that was a motorcycle or an attitude ? I though for a second and said both and then I told her that a Triumph is more than a machine it is a message. She laughed and said that’s cute ! ….I am fifty eight years old and have not been cute in a long time.
Tin Man 2 says
Jar, I think the “brand” means more in the upscale market. Take Automobiles for example, an economy car buyer is looking for function at a low price, While an exotic buyer is going for Image, The new Vette at 100K will outperform most European exotics at 3 times the price, Still the well healed want a Ferrari. An Asian 1000cc Sportbike is fast, But the wealthy want an MV Augusta. It seems marketing works best on the wealthy? Who would have thunk it?
todd says
I’ve met quite a few of the nicest people riding my Hondas. My BMW, despite the perception, was very inexpensive ($200) but is now still running fine at 100,000 miles. Like coho says, I’ve had the most memorable fun on my Yamahas too. Every other brand of bike I’ve owned has never let me down: BSA, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Peugeot, Vespa, etc. I haven’t yet owned a Harley or a Ducati so I don’t have any first hand experience on whether or not I will become more well endowed.
-todd
Boog says
I have been riding Hondas since 1963 (Honda “50”). I got over 7000 miles in the first year without a trip to the shop or anything. It just ran, and ran, and ran….all on dirt and gravel country roads.
Next was a 250 dream. Over 18k miles without so much as a hiccup (and this was from a throttle-happy teenager). It was fast enough to get me thrown in jail my first time at the tender age of 15, ha! When I started to College, my ride (almost 500 miles one-way away from home) was a Yamaha 305. Nice looking, and fast as hell…BUT, some dork at the factory left a loose 12 mm nut in the crankcase (NO KIDDING), and it caught in the gears and broke the crankcase…warranty repair was a nightmare, not done correctly by a redneck shop in the hills of east Tennesse,. to make a long story short, I got about 2,300 miles of VERY poor service from that damn thing. I never again bought a Yamaha anything, including musical instruments. (yeah, I know, so what?) I have had the odd Norton, Ducati, Cushman, and a few others, but when I needed a reliable ride, it was Honda…(CB 750, what a GREAT bike…)
I still have a Honda and it carries the tradition on in fine fashion…
Yeah, my brother in law had a Harley Dyna-Glide…he says that all should have at least ONE Harley…He now has a (brand name deleted) Japanese V-Twin copy…for those of you that have the T-shirt that says, “I would rather push a Harley than ride a Honda”, you will get your wish many times over…
People that ride a Hardly, NEED a Hardly…
Get a REAL motorcycle, a Honda inline 4….they are STILL delivering on that promise…
Scotduke says
Well, I’m glad you guys enjoyed your Hondas. My late 70s Honda twin was a basket of problems from the word go, it frequently didn’t.
But yes, I think brand image has a lot to do with motorcycle purchases, far more than with cars for instance.
FREEMAN says
It’s silly that many will rag on a brand name motorcycle even if they’ve never own one for any length of time. It’s hard to take their word seriously if they can’t even be unbiased. It’s like racial slurs, but with motorcycle brand names instead of human races. Your opinion is based on your perception rather than your experience or some fact.
Nicolas says
So what’s the brand promise …
– reliability ? I’ve had 5 honda, 4 kawasaki, 2 yamaha, 1 suzuki, so far, and none of them ever let me down, probably because I always took a great care of them. So it’s a tie here. (Well, except the yam TDM who let me down twice … but I still love this bike).
– performance ? The performance oriented ones of this list are anyways way too fast for me, so I can’t really judge …
– fun ? I had equal fun with all of them
– technology ? if I can’t fix it myself, I don’t buy it (or I can’t afford it)
– lifestyle/show-off factor ? well, I think I equally looked like a dork on all of them, but still less than if I was cruising on a HD … lol
– “je ne sais quoi” factor ? my kawis always had this little grnargly mean kick-in-the-ass I don’t know what that separate them from all the others …
Tin Man 2 says
PR must really work, During the 70s Japanese Motorcycle wars some of the worst Bikes of all time were sold to the public. Yamis with crank failures due to foaming, Hondas with rectifiers that lasted a month, Chrome that was a joke, with built in rust. Now all is forgiven, Thanks to PR that pushes “reliability”with no regard to the facts. If not for Japan Government intervention both Honda and Yamaha would not exist today. “Get a real motorcycle a Honda 4”, after laughing at V-Twins for 25 Yrs, Why are the Asians building cheap copies still trying to imitate Americans?
Highspeedhamish says
Ive owned 19 bikes over the past 22 years. Most of them were Yamaha’s. I didnt buy them because of a brand or reputation, they were purchased because of function or design. Many 70’s-80’s Yamaha’s were poor in fit and finish. Everything under the bodywork was painted black and cheap paint at that. However, I like most of them because they had a certain handling feel to them and wasnt concerned about quality. My 05 R1 is much much! better than all previous Yamaha’s Ive owned but I still dont regret buying the older ones.
Honda? years to avoid 79-89. I consider Honda the lemon factory, Interceptors, Sabers, Magnas all pieces of junk. All should be scrapped and never spoke of again. Honda cam chains? The CBR 600 series had defective ones for over 14 years!!!
That being said, I liked my Hawk GT, Shadow and CBR600RR. Id say Honda has some of the better built machines these days.
My Suzuki GS 500 was a good bike but the fit and finish were poor. Id say Suzuki concentrated too long on the GSXR line and forgot about the rest. The Marauder et others now called M series are fine machines. I rode a 97 Marauder for 500 kms and loved the engine. The clear on the wheels was coming off though… but still a fun bike to ride.
Never owned a Kawasaki… dont plan to. Only ever thought the Meanstreak was a machine I would consider buying. Ninja has been done to death!
Harleys… nothings changed in 107 years. They dont need to change. They tried once, the VROD. Best bike they ever built.. Hog riders think its stupid..
Gerry Jette says
In Canada, any product must perform at least once as advertised or you get a refund. So any promises are in the specifications. The babes draped over the products do not come with it. The carefully prepared racer is not the production bike you are buying. Despite the old joke about the military parachute being a product of low bid, many parts and sub-assemblies on equipment are subcontracted out on low bid basis. I had a new Korean Hyundai Excel that had a timing belt made in the UK. I suppose that what you are really looking for is a perceived promise of quality but all that glitters is not gold. Perfectly sewn seats do not assure you of long engine life. Yes you can argue that if they don’t care about the seats, do they care about the rest? Perhaps the seat was the only thing contracted out. I once believed that Suzuki Swifts were the best car built. I had 4 at one time and owned a total of 6. The maintenance lists were 5 pages long for each. Then I bought a Monte Carlo. after 4 years the list is less than two pages long. Promises of quality, like beauty is only in the eye of the beholder – and usually only skin deep. If you believe their quality hype, the babe is in the crate.
Norm May says
I used to have Harleys and for years I said that Harley didn’t sell a motorcycle they sold a lifestyle. In 1984 Willie G. publicly stated in a speech that Harley sold a life style……and vindicated what I had been saying for 20 years. Now I own a Honda Goldwing. It is the first bike that I have ever owned that does exactly what the manufacturer says it would. Brand names do count for something and your choice of machine says a great deal about who you are. Unfortunately, all of the manufacturers have made turkeys over the years and never once did they apologise for their errors. I guess the only thing you can really do is your homework and hope it pays off.
Todd8080 says
Ask any owner of an oriental bike and they’ll tell you that all Harleys leak, that they shake your teeth out, lose parts going down the road, break down constantly, etc., even though they’ve never owned or ridden one.
From what I see, the people who badmouth Harleys the most are the ones who own fake oriental Harley imitations. Amazingly, the irony of that is lost on them.
But all the BS stops at resale time. Check Kelley Blue Book and see which brand has the highest resale value, as it consistently has for decades.
If I were Japanese, I’d ride a Honda; if I were German I’d ride a BMW; if I were Italian I’d ride a Ducati. But I’m an American and I care where my dollars end up.
In 1991 the U.S. had a trade surplus. In 2008 the U.S. trade deficit was $695.9 billion. Guess where most of those dollars went?
Of course, none of that means anything to someone who just wants instant gratification at [what they think is] the cheapest price. More irony is that many Japanese bikes aren’t cheaper than comparable Harleys yet become worth very little very quickly.
For example, a 2010 745cc Honda Shadow Phantom (typical fake oriental Harley) is exactly the same price as a 2010 Harley Iron 883 Sportster. Fast forward five years and check the worth of both.
So to answer the question, “Does your motorcycle brand make any promises?”, yes, they all do. But Harley delivers.
Incidentally, mine has well over 200,000 miles and has never been on the side of the road, except for a flat tire.
Byrd says
My 1200 Evo Sportster promises two main things, delivers on one, and fails at the other:
Torque up the wazzoo. Promise kept. Then, some kind of identity that represents “Individuality”. Fail on that one. But no company which mass produces anything, can promise that. And that’s what makes the Motor Co’s advertising so absurd, and such an insult to intelligence. It’s why the only major original part of my bike that’s left, is the engine. But what a fun engine. If HD just sold the engine and a frame title to the public, at a proportionate price, they’d probably still have a market.
Mike D. says
Own a cadillac for more than 100K miles and it becomes a crap-illac..and you will pay through the nose for service..same can be said for HD, this is why there sales are aimed at only upper middle class instead of everyone. Don’t get me wrong i’m pro american made, but like most americans i just can’t afford it..besides i’m into sportbikes and we just don’t make one…
nortley says
I’m with you on the sportster, Byrd. Mine was good for most anything – up to about 100 miles. By then the ride was so unpleasant I wanted to get off and walk. It was certainly a Harley, though, whatever that means – I never did quite figure it out. My BMW fulfills any reputation they hold, official or un, from utter reliability to first gear clunk to all the personality of yesterday’s oatmeal. I can’t imagine a riding season without it, nor could my dogs who also function as a bike alarm. Then there’s the Velocette. They certainly contributed their share to Britbike lore, and share much of the reputation. So, once tinkered and fettled into shape this spring, the Velo starts right up (uncharacteristic of sporting Velos, mine is a non sporting model), bleeds 50wt, the electrics are total loss and home wired, so Joe Lucas’s ghost doesn’t haunt it, and delivers a riding experience which might be described in Victorian language. So yes, if one went back to the literature of the day and used that as a reference, the Velo keeps its promise.
Todd8080 says
Mike D, you’re right, you will pay through the nose for Harley service. But I imagine no dealership works cheap these days, regardless of brand.
I avoid Harley dealerships as much as possible, except on the rare occasion that I need a part I absolutely can’t find elsewhere.
My Harley’s never been in any shop, not even while under warranty. That’s the secret to keeping any vehicle running strong – do your own work.
B*A*M*F says
‘”Get a real motorcycle a Honda 4″, after laughing at V-Twins for 25 Yrs, Why are the Asians building cheap copies still trying to imitate Americans?’
Generally speaking, old people like cruisers. The big 4 will make their versions of those until folks stop buying them. I’m curious to know what the Motor Company will do when that happens. The big 4 have sport bikes, dirt bikes, etc. They are diversified. It worries me that such an iconic company has all of their eggs in the one basket.
Benjamin says
My little Suzuki Bandit 250 makes a promise to me every time I ride – “I think I can, I think I can…” and she does! Reliable, great build quality and good handling. Much like my father’s Bandit 1200 was. Family lineage counts for a lot.
Dad’s never owned a lemon. The only problem I recall was with a Suzuki GSX 750ESD that went through rectifiers. He’s owned Kawasaki Mach-III 400, Honda XL350, Honda CB750, Honda CB900F, The GSX, Honda CBX 750F, Honda CBR1000 (white snowflake), Suzuki Bandit 1200 and Triumph Sprint RS955. The Trumpy has been the most long lived in the garage and also the most venerable. It is built like a tank and never failed. I would hesitate a guess that it is the bike that has struck the right chord with him also.
It is the companies that remain true to their original ethos, hold their heads high on morality and “brand strength – no expense spared” that will remain true to their promises and that is what gets bums on seats. In the guitar/bass world you take the name Rickenbacker as an example. The Japanese will always have supreme quality – but only WHEN they want it – in their showcase models. Generally they have manufacturing down to a pretty fine art. This is part economics, part wrong model – in achieving IMAGE VOLUME in the marketplace they devalue their product. Desirability goes down with volume, it’s human nature to want exclusivity and rock solid promises. these things you can’t talk about – you must build over time and that’s where Seth Godin is spot on – maybe in a way he didn’t originally think. The promise to you over time as a consumer AND the promise over time for the company to be TRUE TO ITSELF. Otherwise the consumer is living a lie and that doesn’t feel right.
Harley Davidson, Ducati, MV Agusta, et al. aren’t just exclusive. H-D are pushing the edge of their image and appear to be almost diluting their brand. I’m not going to bag H-D here, but FLXTCHSWFG-WTF?!?!?! Yes I can decode the model names but many people think there are already too many models. Ducati are reasonably straight forward, same with MV. Triumph walked the line 5-10 years ago and have come back – their failed attempts at 4 cylinder models diluted the brand, now they’re back to purity. Where are the truths-to-self in any of the Japanese 4?
To be honest, it is the companies that say the least about their “passion” that get me going. Triumph advertises their product and the lifestyle that goes with it, as do H-D and Ducati… name a few others at the top of the tree also. One thing they are not trying to be is “boy racer” with slogans like “Own the racetrack” or “Feel the passion of spirit wings on your mind-blowing road-carving but-still-legal-somehow crotch rocket while proclaiming to the world your excitement at being fastest and leaving all others behind hey look we have lots of choices with which to be the WINNAR!!!”
Naah. I only want a bike that does its job and gets my blood racing. I don’t care for promises dreamt up in marketing wet dreams, only those that I can feel and relate to personally. It has to be pure, solid and have a decent backbone. Smells like reputation and maybe a touch of humble pie!
Andrew says
Two years ago I broke a 17 year streak of Suzuki’s when I bought my Concours 14. The reason why I had so many Suzy’s over the years was basically price (had no money back then). I bought 3 Suzuki’s new because they offered good value for money. Never had any issues with them either.
I feel in love with the Connie before it was even available (thanks to the Kneeslider and other articles) and 1 10km test ride in the rain sealed the deal. Suzuki doesn’t make a comparable bike, don’t like the Honda or the Yamaha offerings and BM’s were out of my price range.
Since buying the Connie I have also picked up a 2nd hand Honda which I really enjoy too. So, does brand mean much to me? Well, not anymore – as long as the bike does what I want and is reliable then that’s cool. The only brand I won’t consider is H-D as over hear they’re about twice the price as the competition (and also not my cup of tea) and that’s just ridiculous. Buells are another matter…
Tom says
If you don’t keep up with this sort of thing, it might surprise you to learn there are quite a number of motorcycle companies that are trying to break into the American market and get established _right_now_. (It’s a long list: Hyosung, Kymco, SYM, TGB, Zongshen, American Lifan, TVS…)
Most are actually huge companies that build hundreds of thousands and even millions of units a year and do have reputations and histories – but of course these are unknown in the American market.
What brand stories are their American marketeers trying to tell? Well, for the most part, they aren’t telling a story or creating a brand promise. They’re pushing product.
Could it be that the new companies that ultimately become players in N.A. are not necessarily the ones that build the most intriguing bikes but the ones that build the most intriguing brands?
Tom says
For the power of a brand story, look no further than the new Honda Elite 110 motor scooter.
The model now for sale in the USA is built in China. The very same machine, but with an 100 air-cooled, carburetted engine, is sold retail in China (and India) for around $1000. The US price is $3000.
By my calculations, American buyers are paying around $1500 for the scooter and around $1500 for brand story.
Jar says
Tom, fantastic question.
I’m not sure if “intriguing” is the right descriptor, however. I think “comfortable” or “recognizable” are probably better. Buy an HD, Honda, or Duc and you are comfortable with and recognize the brand, its product, and its ownership experience – either by reputation or experience, implied or earned.
Without that brand history, colorful, exciting, or boring and mundane, an outfit can make zero connection with the consumer. In N.A. motorcycles, I think, serve largely recreational purposes – so the brand connection becomes more important – the bike we buy and ride makes a bit of a statement about us, like it or not. Overseas (India, Taiwan, China), motorbikes serve more functional purposes. They are not luxuries but often main transport – they are tools, which makes the brand less important, the cost more so, and reduces the product to a commodity – least expensive wins, the more millions you can make and sell cheaply, the better off your company.
What I think is interesting, is that many brands that start in this commodity type arena, gain a foothold thru earning a reputation as cost effective and reliable, which often results in the company “making the turn” (or at least attempting such). Examples here being Kia and Hyundai, who brought us questionably styled, cost effective, reasonably reliable, performance lacking Korean cars, who are now both making that upward move into cars that are still cost competitive in catergory, but rather than remaining at the lower end of the scale within the group are making the moves to take on Toyota and Lexus directly at the upper levels of a given catergory. Honda did the same, and look where they are today, from the humble beginnings of a cost effective quirky scooter (or step thru), to taking on small jet aircraft. Pretty amazing transformation.
I find the brand questions really interesting – maybe I should have gone into marketing……nah, I’d hate to give up being a hedge fund manager:)
lostinoz says
My bikes, all of them, Hondas, Ducatis, Harleys, Kawasakis, Suzukis and even Yamahas all gave me the same promise.
“Treat me well, and I will reward you with countless miles of fun, enjoyment, relaxation and solace when you need it, abuse me and you WILL spend money on me.”
I’ve never asked for more, since they all have asked so little. I dont fall into the brand marketing, “Harley-this or Honda-that”…. some of the nicest people Ive met werent on Hondas theyre on Indians. Some of the hardest riders dont roll a Harley, they roll on BMW’s
To me, image is nothing, what they ALL sell me is freedom on two wheels… what I DO with it is up to me.
Nicolas says
why do the discussions always end in “Honda vs. Harley … only on pay-per-view”
Nicolas says
We forgot one big promise : the chick magnet effect ! 😉
carboncanyon says
I totally agree with lostinoz. Every one of the big mfg’s have built winners and losers. I don’t care about brands like Harley or Honda. I owe them nothing. I look for the best product.
I can’t help but laugh when I hear about “lifestyle”. It’s pretty sad if you need to buy a certain brand of bike to define your lifestyle.
Benjamin says
I buy the motorcycle that suits my lifestyle – I don’t buy the motorcycle for its inherent lifestyle. But then I am not a poseur. I like to look good and to a small degree be impresive among my peers, but I don’t buy a Ducati just so I can go and sip latte.
Golo Needhamshire says
I feel that the Alamo is given a bad rap, but this wooden-seat v-twin monster is excx
ctly right for our times. I want a bike now. I want a bike no one has had. this is a winner. spare parts an issue? no. Reliability an isssue? no. Availability an issue? No
Patrick says
First, I am a marketer by trade and a reader of Seth’s blog on a dailey basis. Second, in a world of commodity brands, bikes are the quintessential example of the “brand as promise.” Have been into bikes for years; often use them as examples for setting the bar per brand relevance. The next chapter will be to see which manufacturer jumps out front in the global discussion of resources and the return on materials-used versus utility.
Jon P says
I will admit, I love my Triumph for more than just the way it performs. Having a Brit bike means I’m left out of that whole American vs Japanese bit.
Jim says
Frankly I believe that all of the major motorcycle mfg deliver on there brands promise, anything else and they would have failed, in the end they all deliver an stable low maintenance motorcycle with some quirks, Honda’s occasional (often) over-engineering, Suzuki styled a bit in left field, Triumph classic British style (with decent to great performance) Harley, overbuilt with some (a lot) good vibes (or bad depends on who’s in the saddle) BMW well it seems to me that they always look at there older models with a glass half empty type of view always something changed or new… etc. etc.
Motorcycle Painter says
I’ll be honest and say that my Suzuki Katana actually was worth what I paid for it. I bought it in 2008 for 1000$ and sold in 2009 for 2000$, not something to cry over at night but I was proud.