Does it matter whether you get motorcycle specific training before launching yourself down the road on your brand new bike? Beyond the basics of how to operate the controls, what actually has an effect on whether you are likely to get into an accident?
The George Institute for Global Health, located in Australia, did an analysis of worldwide studies to determine what type of motorcycle rider training is most effective in reducing accidents. Their conclusion? No one has a clue. The effectiveness of training, whether before or after you get your license, simply isn’t known from the evidence available. I’m not surprised.
At the risk of being politically incorrect, the biggest factor that determines who is going to get into an accident has far less to do with what type of training the rider has than who the rider is. If the person on the bike has a history of impulsive and irresponsible behavior, they’re not going to become careful and responsible on their bikes. If you look at everything related to the motorcycle itself, motorcycle clothing and protective gear and rider training, while ignoring who is actually on the motorcycle, your study will constantly give you confusing results. You’ll find riders with years of accident free miles with zero training and others who went through an approved rider training course crashing within days or weeks of hitting the road.
Is anyone truly surprised? It’s even a stretch to call some of the collisions cited in statistics “accidents.” It makes it sound as though they were unavoidable and unpredictable when it’s more likely many who knew the rider could see it coming. It makes it no less tragic when dealing with injury or death, but to wonder what type of training would have been effective in keeping it from occurring is to miss the obvious. Riders vary and safety is a state of mind, no amount of training will change that. We need no studies to know motorcycles are inherently more dangerous than riding in a car or truck, while those who don’t ride constantly wonder how to reduce the danger so it becomes somehow comparable to riding in a a steel box, it never will be. Those who cannot accept the obvious, should not ride. Be safe out there.
Link: PhysOrg
Viv Collins says
I have to recommend the British advanced riding (& Drivers) scheme, the best way to avoid an accident is not to be there when one happens, interestingly I found that after training I was a consistently faster rider from A to B but did so in a much smoother manner that felt actually slower to my previous fast and furious pace.
Ken Smalley says
I couldn’t agree more with the premise of this article. From 1984 to 2006 I taught the MSF curriculum to both new riders and experienced riders. All we dealt with was the concious part of riding – we couldn’t deal with the unconscious paortion of each rider. This unconscious portion was what made the riders ride the way they did. Some rode safely and others didn’t. That’s just the way it is…
Scott Beairsto says
I took a motorcycle safety training course prior to turning 16 and getting my motorcycle license in Nova Scotia, over 25 years ago. As I had enjoyed riding dirt bikes for years, I can’t recall learning anything from the riding fundamentals.
However, what I did take away from the course and this is the reason why I have recommended that every new motorcycle driver take some form of the course, is that the instructors really impressed on me the need to be aware around those who are not, to be visible and to always drive defensively.
Tinman says
I hate to generalize but here it is. I seldem can be out on a Sunday cruise without some asshat passing me doing a wheelie at 80 MPH in a 55 zone. It seems that having 120HP on hand is to much temtation for the inmature. I think Englands graduated system may weed out the fools before they get to the 120HP stage.
Susokary says
Totally agree with your analyze.
To me, far more than training and equipment, time will especially improve the safety of those riders, allowing these young mad dogs to acquire more maturity, wisdom and experience…
Unless they killed themselves before!
Greetings from France.
B50 Jim says
Tinman, I agree. I’ve seen guys riding 100, on a busy interstate, passing traffic on their rear wheels, one with his girl on the back! I admit they showed a great deal of skill, but zero judgment. England’s system probably works quite well but it’ll never happen in the U.S. Our system, as always, is more direct. Fools crash and die. The biggest problem is that motorists brand all riders with the same iron when some idiot startles them by screaming past at 120 with an open megaphone. There are always more fools than crashes, so the best the rest of us can do is ride properly, be courteous to drivers and other riders, and hope our examples are the ones riders remember when some jagoff flashes 6″ past their doors on one wheel.
Ken says
Training is really a great thing when a new or un-seasoned rider hasn’t spent enough time with someone who is seasoned and behind the handle bar. I find myself teaching my friends that don’t have my experience and I am still learning from others on and off road. Until recently, I rode my bike everyday unless I had to take my kid/wife somewhere. There is always room for improvement. If I could afford the time and money, I would take an ADV course like KTM or BMW provides.
You don’t need big CCs in order to be stupid. You just crash harder!
Ian says
I think it’s a good thing in general. Its not like a motorcycle is a bike. People do need familiarization. If I had it my way I’m make every new person getting a license get motorcycle training and take a motorcycle awareness class for everyone else.
cWj says
Correction to you premise, people DO need familiarization with a bicycle.
Assuming you mean street riding, a good portion of the that familiarization is similar to what they need or motorcycles.
And if a one personpower bicycle needs familiarization, it stands to reason something a good deal more complicated and a much more powerful will, too.
HoughMade says
I have enjoyed the book: “Proficient Motorcycling” by David Hough (no relation). It really gives you a lot to think about from a safety and vehicle dynamics perspective. He references the Hurt Report extensively (yes, I know the reports has its limitations), but one thing that stuck with me was this: those who took a MSF course were involved in the least accidents. Those who taught themselves were something like 1.5 times more likely to be in an accident and those who learned from a friend or family member were something like 3 to 4 times more likely to be in an accident. I think it would be a mistake to interpret this as the training making the difference and may be a bit more of a commentary on the personalities involved. there are those who do everything by the book and are very careful by nature. They are more likely to take the course and would likely have had the least accidents regardless of where they learned to operate a motorcycle.
Keith says
Does motorcycle training reduce motorcycle accidents? Does firearm training reduce firearm accidents? Does mining safety training improve mining safety? Of course it does. To say: “Riders vary and safety is a state of mind, no amount of training will change that” means the training (if, in fact, there was proper training) has failed to change the mindset and sensitise the trainee. Good riding, like everything else in life, is all about attitude. A good teacher knows how to change attitudes and a good student is a teacher’s joy. Ask any drill sergeant… Track-day training made me a better road rider, sharper and more able to focus intently on the mental processes involved in staying alive on a bike, and more content to travel at the speed limits unless otherwise OK to wind it on. Irresponsible and reckless behaviour is an indication of an unsuccessfully prepared mind. Regardless of what training such a subject undergoes, it still has to penetrate the 12 inches of solid bone between his ears. Get good training. Get good at riding. It can save your life.
fast eddie says
I can’t imagine that no training has the same effect as any training . Now listen ,
Destiney when your wheelieing past your newly dumped boy toy don’t look back and see if he’s watching . You need to keep your eyes on the road for the next blue haired 90
year old lady that’s most likely not going to see you coming and cut you off.So maybe we need to reevaluate the teaching process or maybe we should use stupidity as a way to weed out idiots. Surveys and statistics will always show an outcome of the person doing them. I.E. 90% of herion addicts drank milk as a child . Therefore milk causes heroin addiction. Please do some reports on M/c”ing, { your good at it } F E
FREEMAN says
I’m a firm believer that we cannot engineer the stupid out of people and that we should not try. Training only works if the students are willing to learn and the instructors are willing to teach. I don’t believe there is any direct correlation between one’s prior training and whether they end up in an accident on their motorcycle or other vehicle. Maybe the blame should be placed on the one who caused the accident and nothing more. If they become a repeat offender, rather than giving them a dozen chances, maybe they are just unfit to operate a vehicle.
mattg says
Motorcycles are cool precisely because they are dangerous. I’ve given up trying to rationalize it to my wife or myself for that matter. Dangerous things attract people with either a penchant for danger or a mental deficit. Or both. Depending on who’s riding with me I admit to the later. I regret it after but there you go.
Watch “motocycle crashes” on youtube- it’s 95% people (regardless of age or gender)being stupid. I wouldn’t never be as stupid as that these days but there was a time.
lostinoz says
Does training reduce accidents? well…. we all got potty trained didnt we?
Ok, I know, not the same thing, but it IS actually rather close. Too many people take the courses for the wrong reasons, be it a quick way into a license or just for the insurance breaks. That being said, those people promptly FORGET everything they heard (i hate to say learned) in class and promptly ride the way they WANT to ride, bad habits included. The MSF basic course is GREAT to get a license, however it doesnt instill a lot of SKILLS. The advanced and track day courses are actually worth taking, as you learn how to be safe at higher speeds. They take the skills you have learned, and teach you smoother riding skills, quality riding skills that a seasoned rider will understand, appreciate and retain.
I’ve had friends take the basic courses then come to me to explain things better, or have me teach them “what its really like.” I do my best to answer them, as it shows a real interest in NOT losing skin on the road, then I give them the information for the advanced and track classes. Those that spend the money on taking the advanced classes seem to have less accidents REGARDLESS OF AGE OR EXPERIENCE than those that came up with excuses as to why they DIDNT take the class.
This year was a bad year for me, I’ve buried too many riders since jan, MANY of them were cages NOT paying attention combined with NON-DOT gear. We can take away all the knowledge in the world, be the BEST damn riders ever created, and theres STILL the variables that we cannot control. Rider awareness should be more in-depth for cages, THAT may make a bigger difference.
akaaccount says
In some cases it has seemed to me that the MSF course makes things worse – overconfidence kills. Learning for a few hours on a Rebel 250, then being told you’re suddenly 100% legit to be turned loose with an R6 is a recipe for disaster.
I took VA’s DMV rider test which is apparently infamous for being tough. I practiced for hours (longer than the MSF course in its entirety) and aced everything the first time on the bike that I still ride on the road everyday. Seems a better way to me.
Mule says
I always tell friends (that will listen), if you’re a crappy driver in a car, you’ll get “Darwin’d” out on a bike pretty quick. If you’re a show-off? Can I have your tools and stuff when you’re gone?
Mike1200 says
Back when I started riding, I took the MSF course to get an edge on figuring things out the ‘hard way’ (as well as getting the ticket-to-ride). To lostinoz’s comment on people taking the courses for the wrong reasons or forgetting what they learned, I’d add those who IGNORED what they heard/learned. I could likely sum up 99% of the wisdom of the course as follows:
1- Riding a motorcycle is about managing risk. 100% of the time.
2- Ride to be visible, but ride like you are invisible.
3- Don’t let your pride (macho, attitude, or fill in the blank) write a check your skills can’t cash. (aka DON’T BE STUPID)
4- Any ‘accident’ requires a chain of events to happen. Identify them in any given situation early and break one link, you will avoid most of them.
Marty says
30 years of riding.
First 9 off road.
Last 21 commuting rail hail or shine.
5 Accidents in the first ten years of commuting, all the fault of the other rider.
After that did the advanced rider training courses.
Then only 1 accident in the next 11 years.
Of those first 5 accidents, I suppose only one was really unavoidable. The other 4 could have been avoided, IF I had done the training earlier.
I believe that for someone who has the mentality to want to be safe, advanced training makes a difference.
Mike1200 says
I knew there was something else… the George Institute report states it is an analysis of “worldwide” studies. Just throwing out the likely variation in statistical reporting variations within differing reports. Unless all the studies use all the same measurement criteria, I’d expect to be confused too. I can’t quite see a similarity between riding a motorcycle in India or China with riding in the US or the UK for example. (no offense meant, just noting an observation).
Nicolas says
I’m not sure I follow the point … in anything, practice makes you better, period. (Ask your wife/girlfriend about that)
Now for sure, you can have the best training in the world and still be a dumbo who has coordination issues, or a jackass who has no common sense, or be unlucky, and in all these cases you’ll quickly grow the statistics. Having myself all the previous mentioned characteristics, DOT/CE approved gear kept me alive more than once, and ready to jump back the bike as a safer rider.
peg leg craig says
I gave my step son the oppertunity to learn to ride. First on a dirt bike and later in a formal learn to ride program. We rode together on several occasions through the summer and I observed him and talked with him about riding. He fell off a few times but was determined to continue, I said a prayer and continued coaching him. Finally after a really dumb crash, I pulled him off the bike and bought him a car, he crashed that too. Sad to say that some people just don’t get the message that life is trying to teach, these are the ones we need to watch out for on our bikes. Remember they walk (and drive among) us.
Boog says
Been riding for 50+ years. Only wreck I ever had was when a dog ran out and got under my front wheel at about 50 mph. Luckily, the road was wet as I spun to a stop. Only real damage was to my buddy on the back who wore out the seat of his jeans sliding on the wet pavement…we were lucky for a couple of 15 year old kids…
Why have I been so lucky??? I dunno, but my first bike (at 14) was my beloved Honda 50…I loved that bike like it was human. I didn’t want to scratch it up or dent it up. The nearest shop was 100 miles away, and besides, my mom would impound it if I dented it up in a crash. SOOO, I was EXTREMELY careful, and rode it over 7000 miles in the first year on gravel, dirt, and 2 lane blacktops without ever going into any city limits, all without so much as a ding on the tank….I thought I was the luckiest kid in the world to have that bike, and treated it as such.
I think a lot of kids get WAY too much “stuff” early in life and as a result, do not value their possessions.
But what do I know? I’m just an old geezer…still riding, ha!
Vinnie Dee says
The failure of police to enforce moving violations puts vulnerable road users at risk and makes us all dangerous riders and drivers. Its human nature to get away with what we can until we are caught.
Most collisions are caused by human error. No amount of rider training will prevent the stupidity of others but it may just give you the training to avoid stupidity coming your way.
I don’t ride bikes because it is dangerous, I ride because its a convenient and practical form of commuting especially where lanesplitting is legal in heavy congestion.
Simon says
I’ve been riding most of my life, with over 40 years of riding experience. I have never had a rider training course, largely because they did not exist when I first started riding. I’ve had accidents, a fair number of them. (I didn’t count.) Most of them occurred within the first ten years of riding, when I was young and reckless and, yes, stupid. As I’ve matured, I’ve stopped riding like an idiot and taking chances and I’ve stopped (knock on wood) having accidents. Of course, one is always vulnerable to the inattentive fool in an automobile, especially these days, with cell phoning and twittering being done by seemingly everyone (except me; I’ve never owned a cell phone). But the vast majority of the accidents I’ve had have been my fault, not the other guy’s, because I was not riding safely. I have been lucky. (So far.) It is a lot more dangerous riding these days then it was when I got started. Bikes are faster, car drivers more inattentive and more selfish and aggressive. I have learned to ride very defensively, but I could still buy the farm at any time. Any of us could. If I could afford to take one of those race track courses taught by people like Keith Code and Freddie Spencer, I would. I have absolutely no interest in racing. I do have an interest in becoming a better rider. Even after 40 years of riding, I know that I don’t know it all. Maybe that’s why I am still around. (So far…..)
dannyb278 says
cant speak for other countries but the 2 day “get your licence” course in the U.S. is a real joke. Who thought the idea of pushing people with ZERO experiance through a two day course so they can get a licence, hop on their full size cruiser or sportbike and ride in public was a complete idiot.
NIck5628 says
I agree with the Kneeslider on this one. However I would guess that there are more thoughtful riders who seek advanced training than reckless ones. So I would not be surprised if there actually was a correlation between training and fewer accidents. Not to say that training causes fewer accidents.
rich peabody says
I think that just signing up for a MSF course gets the rider’s mind into a place where they acknowledge that there may be something to learn……
Who knows? Maybe they become a little keaner student of riding?
Watching idiots perform on the street makes me a but queezy……
I do believe that there is a lot of truth in the article……
Ride safe…..
NIck5628 says
@ rich peabody
“I do believe that there is a lot of truth in the article……”
Did you read the article? All it says is that there is not enough evidence either way to say whether motorcycle training effects the number of accidents or not.
Tom says
Most collisions are caused by human error. No amount of rider training will prevent the stupidity of others but it may just give you the training to avoid stupidity coming your way.
Certainly gives lie to the phrase, \Loud pipes save lives.\ Do MSF courses make riders safer or do safer riders seek out MSF courses to be even more safe?
Mule says
Do all the stunt riding/freestyle shows, videos, DVD’s help? They seem to glamorize bailing off and trashing hardware. Scars, roadrash, bent frames? Dad will just buy a new ZX10, no biggie! Extreme injuries are no fun and the price of looping your bike riding a 2-up wheelie on the freeway is beyond stoopid!
Jim says
Looking at a summary report of US DOT motorcycle crash data a few years ago, the researcher pulled together to the most frequently occurring contributing factors to the crash and the largest broke out neatly by age. For riders under 35 the most frequent contributor was riding too fast for conditions and for riders over 35 it was the presence of alcohol in the riders bloodstream. Not over the limit alcohol, but any measurable amount.
Training is great and it will reduce accidents, but it can’t make up for rider stupidity.
Bjorn says
When I started riding, it was after the compulsory Ridersafe program was introduced in South Australia. I’d had bicycles for years but needed to learn a whole set of different skills to handle a motorcycle.
I watched the motorcycle GPs and I wanted to be fast, so I’d go out into the windy back roads and scare myself; occasionally crashing. With time I became a fair rider, then I went racing and became quite a good rider.
Training provided a good base of knowledge and practice (eventually) cemented that knowledge. Training taught me a whole lot of skills and gave me an understanding of the dynamics of a motorcycle; things I would otherwise have had to learn by trial and error. It also opened my eyes to the fact there was a body of knowledge about how to go fast.
I crashed when starting out because I wanted to be quick and no amount of training could eliminate that; it could only give me the structure to do it and hopefully enough understanding to survive the learning process.
The training taught you how to go, turn and stop, while the practical tests showed you the distances etc. required to carry out the actions. The training would only stick if it was important to you.
Sick Cylinder says
Ask the insurance companies what the biggest factors are and they will tell you based on statistics 1) age and 2) your previous accident record.
On top of having physical skills, safe riding is about spotting hazards and reacting appropriately to them. Young people are relatively poor at reading hazards.
Training can teach you the physical machine handling skills that you need, but riders also need to learn to spot hazards and read the road. I see a lot of riders who seem to lack low speed control and balance – I presume they also lack skill at higher speeds.
As well as training riders more needs to be done regarding awareness of bikers amongst other road users – cagers using mobile phones is a big problem and unfortunately “I didn’t see you” will remain the most common first words heard by a biker after body surfing the road.
SteveD says
As a first time rider, I greatly appreciated. I got to practice braking and counter steering before I was out on the road. Then I had to practice on the road as well. If you are dumb enough to think “I passed the MSF course so now I can do anything” then you are facing natural selection at its finest. For most folks, the MSF is a good intro if for no other reasons than it gets them thinking about a set of basic riding skills.
f0ul says
Living in the UK, I have done a lot of training – the majority of it by choice.
That is the key though – if someone is willing to get training, they will automatically be of the mind set to be safer. However, bike accidents are not always the fault of the biker – many of the accidents we have here are the fault of other drivers.
The car that decides that you and your bike don’t exist and pulls out. I have learnt a few tricks to try and make them see me, but the biggest thing training can do for me is to tell me to slow down enough and manoeuvre to a safer line so that if I do come off, I won’t hurt myself.
Its interesting we never talk about the training potential for car drivers – did I mention I have also done advanced car driving training? Its just a shame everyone think they are an above average skilled driver!
Oldyeller8 says
After 7 years of teaching people how to ride I have come to at least a few conclusions: First; It’s hard to teach attitude, especially to those who have it. Those type of people won’t want to take training anyway. But for the ones that do take training, most will tell you that it helped them. I hear at least once every month or so some tell me “That thing you taught me just saved my life!”
Second; Not everyone should/can ride a motorcycle.
Third; A lot of motorcyclists (trained or not) put themselves in a bad position (on the street) that otherwise would have not allowed an accident (potential or otherwise) to happen. It doesn’t matter if it was the other vehicles fault or not.
The list does go on. But as others in this thread have said, you cannot legislate, repeal or change stupidness, ignorance or behavior.
Oldyeller8 says
An anecdote on a side note: This past summer, while at a bike shop looking at modern safety gear (hit-air airbag jackets) another gentleman at the shop is asking questions about said product. After a while he goes on about how he has ridden over 30,000 miles (48,000km) without an accident (his entire riding career) and what do you need this particular safety garment for… blah, blah blah….
(Gee, I ride that distance in 1.5 years)
About 2-3 months later I see his bike in the same shop – It seems to have hit another vehicle Who was at fault I don’t know – But Ahh! The irony!!!
zyxw says
When reading “face plant” posts on other sites I am frequently struck by how the victim frequently blames some circumstance or other vehicle for the crash, when if you take a step back you can see that what one person calls “unavoidable” could have been avoided. Some riders are very “skilled,” but lack judgment, while other riders may not have the “skills” but they know how to avoid trouble.
Auz1237 says
They simply don’t have the data to prove or disprove that motorcycle training works or does not, so before anyone gets on the bandwagon to say “what’s the point?” go take a training course and tell me if it does not make you a better rider.
Steve Hog Radio Producer says
1. Younger you are the less respectful of your life and that of others. Bullet proof comes to mind.
2. Early years riding/driving you just aren’t as aware of your surroundings and more apt to be distracted. Going off the road becuase you were rubber necking some hot babe in the car next to you.
3. Attitude is all important.
4. Drinking and riding is a death sentance.
5. Less than 3 to 4 seconds between you and the car in front of you is stupid and an accident just waiting to happen.
6. Watch for cars because they dont watch for you.
Yeti B. says
First I’d like to say that learning to ride and logging hours on a dirt bike is the best thing you can do to keep yourself safe on the street. If you learn to control a bike in loose gravel or dirt you have a skill set that is invaluable in a low traction situations on pavement.
Also, when I ride on the street I go with the assumption that I am invisible and that the traffic around me CAN’T SEE ME AT ALL and adjust my path and speed accordingly. Never, ever assume someone sees you just because they were looking right at you, many times they turn their head in your direction only to blankly stare right past you.
Another small thing you can do that makes a big difference is to flash your high beam on and off a couple of times when coming up on an intersection or someone waiting to pull into traffic. I’ve noticed many times where someone was getting ready to pull out in front of me and stopped at the last second because they noticed the flashing high beam.
Paulinator says
When I started riding I had a minor incident that should’ve been a major. I read the situation just before it unfolded so my reactions were correct and crisp. Luck was my best teacher because that event reinforced a cognative process that has served me well for tha last quarter century. I only wish that kind of lesson could be bottled and distributed (then re-distributed from time to time, when the affects ware-off).
Paulinator says
PS
The biggest impact on motorcycle safety would come from SERIOUS penalties for cell-phone use while driving. I won’t even talk about make-up application or hajibs.
SteveH says
Of course training of one type or another will benefit anyone riding a motorcycle – that’s just common sense.
One thing I haven’t seen in any of the above comments is one name – Larry Grodski. Mr. Grodski was a world-class road rider, author, MSF Instructor, safety columnist for “Rider” magazine, regional rep for his area to the MSF and more…
He died on the road, on his motorcycle, in Texas on his way back from a national MSF convention – the reason? A deer ran into him. One of the things he said to his wife before this happened was that he was more concerned with deer than anything else on the road. He was right and I treat deer like very dangerous enemies – they are.
Now, here was a guy with everything in order for surviving on the road – skillset, experience, equipment and awareness. Yet, he still didn’t make it home.
We need all the tools that we can get for a good experience on the road, but remember this, sometimes it just doesn’t matter.
I am a daily rider with a commute of 60 miles – I also ride road bicycles as briskly as possible – and have been doing so for more than 40 years. I don’t foresee stopping anytime soon but will continue to use all the tools at my disposal for a good ride. I’m aware of the dangers but the benefits are too great to ignore and sit in a cage.
Statistics and debate can go on and on, but common sense and awareness of our vulnerabilities is essential. When you can accept these things and get all the tools, you’re ready for the enjoyment of road riding. Thanks, Larry!
Jon Vandervelde says
Lots of people are pointing out that the study overview doesn’t say training doesn’t work, it simply says that it cant identify whether training helps or not.
But isn’t that basically saying that it does not? If we did a study on a drug and the conclusion was there is no evidence whether it does anything or not, I think most of us would correctly conclude that the drug doesn’t work. If you cant even tell, the answer is no.
Mule says
Paulinator, Celphones are a huge nuisance on the roadways for sure. Probably the biggest one in existance. However, there were a hell of a lot of m/c crashes for the 100 years preceeding cel phones.
If one studies the statistics, the probability of an accident can be drastically reduced.
1. Back way off and cover your brakes through an intersection.
2. Stay the hell of of a car’s blindspot!!
3. Dress for a crash and most likely you won’t have one. Murphy’s Law.
4. People waiting to pull out of a side street or driveway, WILL pull out!
5. Know what yourt skill level is. Don’t kid yourself.
6. Ride within your skill level.
7. If you want to impress your friends doing tricks, make sure they know what hospital you’ll be taken to and will actually come visit you.
OMMAG says
Pretty thin string you’ve unwound there Paul ……
I’d say this study in the question of does it work or does it not work is deeply flawed … or perhaps I should say …. hardly scratches the surface.
Followed up with the fallacy of reduction….. It does not mean anything.
In the real world …. training works … the only thing in question is how well it works and in the case of the study it is not asked what kind of accidents those with safety training get into.
Since there is no possibility of training for all contigencies it makes no sense to consider that approach. Instead training focusses on what is known to be most likely.
The result is that formally trained riders will be less likely to make those most common mistakes.
On side of the untrained rider … the percentage who manage to avoid most or all mistakes that lead to accidents is as low as the percentage of people who are capable of learning on their own or with some informal study or coaching.
In all cases the attitude of the individual plays a role and in many cases so does luck.
The bottom line is that all factors are at play…. simply comparing results in one variable is baloney.
BTW …. why do motorcycle race training schools produce more successful and saf
Hawk says
In 58 years of riding I’ve tried to figure out why I’ve survived but many haven’t. I’ve considered “risk”, perhaps as it would be viewed by an insurance company. My conclusions rest on two factors:
1. The cost to replace the vehicle.
2. The processes that go on between the vehicle operator’s ears.
Part of the “risk” is therefore answered by a telephone call to a dealer. The other part must be proven over time.
I’ve always felt that we have an inborn “limit” that we do not exceed. With most of us, this is what has kept us alive but it would not produce the front runners in a MotoGP campaign. If nothing else, the activity on this article points up that we are all concerned, first and foremost, about safety.
I think a wise philosophy is to ride/drive your own vehicle and let the police be concerned about “the other guy”.
LiamH says
So consider two archetypes: A: Mature but inexperienced rider, B: Immature rider with high skill level but low inhibition.
Now also consider that male brain is not fully grown until around the age of 25. The last part to develop deals with executive function i.e. the part that will override emotion with reason.
Defensive riding skills can be taught, and rider A will become safer while rider B will probably not.
I think maturity has to be acquired. For most it comes naturally with age but the process can be accelerated by painful experience.
The dilemma as I see it, is that there is a strong argument for refraining from highly dangerous activities until your brain is as developed as it ever well be to make split-second decisions which may have painful lifelong (or ending) consequences, for which society will pick-up the bill. On the other hand I have ridden since a kid and have survived, as much by luck as judgment, to be a mature rider and would never seek to deny anyone the same experience. I think people should have the freedom to live and die by their own will. It is a tricky issue.
Grant says
Does driver training reduce automobile accidents? Judging strictly on offers of reduced rates for those who have taken formal training and defensive driving courses, the insurance industry believes training does reduce accidents. But if you look at the size of the discount compared to the size of the premium, it is obvious that the insurance industry has established a limit to how much benefit training provides.
My opinion: motorcycle-specific training is an important part of keeping yourself on the healthy side of the statistics, but not the biggest part.
Mike1200 says
@ LiamH (and nearly everyone else)- well said!
the main message running through all 50 (so far) messages can be summed up as-
1- training will make a difference if you want it to
2- stupidity is painful
maybe kneeslider.com could make up m/c sized bumper-stickers for #2?
(uh… I guess it not really a ‘bumper’-sticker…so what do we call it?)
rashomon says
I’ve always thought accidents tracked pretty closely to testosterone level, which explains the disproportionate numbers of 16-25 year old men involved. However, with only a little statistical evidence to back it up, I would hypothesize that some of the things taught in MSF and other motorcycle riding skills courses help. Specifically, countersteering, front brake use, and proper visual scanning and focus points are all very vital rider skills. Do some riders then go out and use all the additional margin these skills give them? Of course. But that still does not mean there isn’t a net benefit; it would be interesting to see the study that confirmed or denied that.
Core says
Nice little article.
I’d say some good general tips would go a long way in helping a new rider, if said new rider wanted to learn, be safe etc.. Its the individuals attitude that makes a world of difference.
Training only helps those who take advantage of it.
I know for a fact you can’t teach the idiot out of someone, and you can’t legislate against idiocy successfully. Sorry asses and idiots will always exist.
SteveD says
I also learned how easy it it to ride a Kawasaki Eliminator. 😉
M!ke D! says
The majority of severe motorcycle accidents here in the states involve another vehicle. And 9 times out of 10 this other vehicle is 75-100% at fault. This being known the focus should be on these steel box operators and what is distracting them. Causing them to kill 100’s of innocent motorcyclist every year. I’ve been riding since I was 5 years old, on the street since 18. Being 33 now I saw people dying all summer on bikes always assuming it was “there” inability to operate the motorcycle safely enough. Everyone at my local track only rides at the track. These factors had me contemplating weather I should continue riding on the street for the past few years. Well two months ago I got my answer when a 67 yr old women turned left right in front of me. I suffered a broken right femur and exploded patella as i tried to avoid her careless maneuver, otherwise just being t-boned. Almost made it, clipping the rear quarter panel rolling onto her trunk lid. Now as I sit here nursing my broken leg in my wheel chair, I wonder..Would I still be riding on the street if I had made it past her, still probably crashing after clearing the vehicle..I like to think not..I’ve learned alot riding bikes all my life both on the dirt and the street. I’ve crashed many times before just learning or pushing the limits at the track. But all the experience in the world doesnt amount to squat, when you add in the X factor. Motorcyclist will never have the advantage of being protected by steel and on the street the odds are severely stacked against us. I used to tell my fellow riders to ride safe now I tell them good luck.
Alf says
I think it’s very hard to determine or measure if motorcycle training reduces accidents. I can say that I feel that MSF training has helped me in staying alive but then again so has luck. :D. I recommend safety training I \believe\ it helps.
Mr. X says
Hi,
training on motorcycles is IMHO one of the decisive factors for safety. Because of that I have every year several race track trainings – first at the beginning of season.
Whilst track days you become acquainted to the behaviour of your bike and its own characteristics… You get a feeling for what is still possible according to physics and what not.
For example one scenario amongst plenty: Even if you are a conservative driver on regular roads, I am sure that everyone had the situation, that one was too fast in a corner – maybe due to dirt on the road, due to inattention… or because the corner was in its course different than expected. Untrained drivers for example have often the panic that more angle is not possible and drive in a corner straight ahead in botany.
So have I driven in a group with 5 people, 4 very experienced and one newbie – he was faced with one of above describe situations (from which I would say that it was very easy) and finally he had a heavy accident (with happy end) right in front of me…
Trainings on the own bike is from my point of view absolutely mandatory – you have only one life.
Greetings from Germany.
fredbob says
Training helps, but cannot stop random chance. I’ve been riding my whole life, enduros, motocross, street, which I consider “training” of sorts. All this training gives me quick reflexes when some idiot almost kills me with their car. I can slide a bike sideways to a quick stop without dropping it, but I cannot make others pay attention. Point: all the training and schooling in the world will make you better, but just like in life, that hammer could come down at any moment. One other note; No one can teach newbs not to panic and freeze up… how many low speed crashes have you guys witnessed where a new rider gets in trouble and locks up, frozen in panic? Dunno how you stop that…