Yesterday I asked whether collectible motorcycles were collectible by intention or accident. It seems the intentional collectible is a kind of hopeful fantasy, on the part of both manufacturer and buyer. They want lightning to strike twice by recalling the former glory of a model long gone, or sometimes on the company’s part, they want to create something special out of thin air. One of the comments, by Akbar, was quite good:
I have been a rare book, collectibles, art and antiques dealer for over 25 years now (ouch) and the thing is, intentional collectible(s) really never are collectible after some time. They are still desirable, but never become rare as the people who buy them in the first place take care of them. Thus, an ultra expensive, limited edition bike produced now, will be stocked away in someone’s garage, or at least enough of them will be that 25 years from now, you will be able to buy one at anytime, given money.
As far as limited editions go, well, if the edition is more than, say, 250, it is really common as dirt.
The stuff that I have always seen gain the most money over the years is quality items (sometimes just interesting items) that nobody at the time knew they would be so desirable later. E.g. the first generation Buell, the Battle Twin, is now worth a fair amount of money; small production numbers, important bike, and not a lot around, the people who bought them, rode them, they did not go instantly to a museum or collection.
Well said.
The bike likely to be sought out in the future has memories and experience attached to it. If the only thing it ever did was sit under wraps, it just becomes an expensive museum piece traded among others who will, likewise, cover it up and never use it. Whether it’s an old motorcycle or Shelby Mustang, the high value originals built up a lot of history from owners (maybe you or me) who used them hard and often and we remember it. Remaking them now in “limited numbers” tries to cash in on the history of the originals which the remakes will never have.
The many thousands of CB750 owners who used and abused them built up a lot of memories. The bike was common as dirt for years but now the clean ones are getting scarce and there are many more riders to remember those common bikes than there would have been for a “limited edition CB750 anniversary special” of some sort.
The more people there are with fond memories of a motorcycle in years past, the greater the future demand. Anything pre-identified as a collectible is, oddly enough, almost guaranteed not to be.
Even models produced in more limited numbers that became collectible weren’t treated as such when new, they were raced and ridden and fully enjoyed. If they were all stored away from day one they would be nothing more than an interesting curiosity.
The fully capable Ducati Desmosedici RR is in danger of entering this category. I just noticed Tom Cruise gets the first one in the US. He’ll run around with it for a while then sell it and the machine will forever carry the “formerly owned by” price markup. Will any Desmosedici owner run it hard and really enjoy it or will they all be carefully preserved under glass? Most likely, they will all be treated as so special the risk of actually breaking it would be unthinkable and they’ll be traded as investments instead of motorcycles, after all, they’re collectible. There will never be a large owner base, due to limited numbers and high price, no one to look back and remember the days when he ripped around town on his old Desmosedici. They will be interesting curiosities to all but a few.
Many of us have owned collectibles over the years, it’s just that we owned them new and sold them later when we bought something else. When that former bike runs up in price we wonder how we could have missed such an obvious future classic and vow never to let it happen again. The factories are happy to oblige with all of these “specials” that we figure will undo our mistake, … right.
Collectible motorcycles are more likely to be somewhat common and one day cease production because they no longer sell well and then 5 or 10 years later someone, probably a former owner, says, “You know, those were nice bikes, I should buy one,” and the process begins.
Related: Collectible Motorcycles – Intentional or Accidental?
Related: Affordable Classic Motorcycles
Related: Collecting Vintage Motorcycles
Related: Custom Motorcycles – Long Term Collectibles?
Walt says
It’s important to distinguish personal from business/financial incentives. Each collector or enthusiast is different. My collection consists of a ’32 Harley flathead, now fully restored (by me) to AMCA Senior First condition, that I bought back around 1964. A 1972 Bonneville that my late brother found under a tarp in the owner’s yard. And a 1935 Harley I’m restoring, largely from parts accumulated doing the first restoration.
The Harleys and Triumph aren’t the big bucks models of their vintage, but they came my way and I grabbed ’em. I’ve put them back on the road and they make me happy.
About the time I bought my 32 VL my brother also picked up a vintage Hog: a 1936 EL, the first year knucklehead. “Man, that’s a classic,” I told him. “Worth big bucks! You should restore it.”
He was a fledgling biker at the time. “Don’t like the way it looks,” he said. And he bobbed it, which made him happy. All that remains is the amp gauge.
kneeslider says
“It’s important to distinguish personal from business/financial incentives.”
Absolutely! See Affordable Classic Motorcycles
akbar says
wow, quoted on the home page, I am honored.
From my experience, the Ducati Desmosedici RR will always be valuable, it just wont really go up in price much. Probably a perfectly safe place to put money if you dont ride it much. Gosh, not what I want to do with a motorcycle.
And, as kneeslider asks, “Will any Desmosedici owner run it hard and really enjoy it or will they all be carefully preserved under glass?” Probably very few, but a familiarity with Jalopnik suggests that a few people try to drive their Enzos…
kneeslider says
“a few people try to drive their Enzos…”
keyword … “try”
akbar says
I keep thinking of Walt’s post – nice collection there. Can’t help but say that bobbing a 1936 EL is an absolute crime, jebus, you can bob anything (shovel head anyone), but a 36 EL is a scarce and beautiful beast
Walt says
No argument there, Akbar. That EL was light and quick, with 400×18 wheels that made it look quite un-Hoglike. It would compare fairly well with a contemporary Brough or HRD. It really shouldn’t have been in the possession of an 18-year-old high school dropout, but back in those days such a guy could afford such a bike. I still recall him chirping the rear tire as he shifted into second. Later in life he regretted taking the bike apart, but by then it was long gone. I didn’t have to say I told you so.
todd says
I’m gonna start buying up super clean, first gen SV650’s then. I think the SV is pretty much the modern equivalent of the CB750.
It’s the ones everyone bought, everyone used up and no one thought to keep.
-todd
akbar says
The first advice I always give to new collectors is; buy what you like. I realize that there are some things out in the world that one buys as an investment, and if you are collecting something, you want to know you can get your money out if need be, but otherwise, no use having it if you are not passionate about it.
The second piece of advice is condition, condition, condition. This is a difficult one to get across sometimes, the novice is usually exited to see something they want in decent shape at all, so they pull the emotional trigger. I can’t tell you how many times a client of mine bought a book that they thought was in pretty good shape, but they had only seen one or two copies – being a dealer, I had seen 100s and have more information to compare
hoyt says
I’d be interested in seeing what the readers think about Guzzi. They seem to produce the lowest volume of the manufacturers classified as mass production. Furthermore, Guzzi discontinues model lines for periods of time. For example, the V11 Sport was discontinued after only a few years.
The V12 Sport is more styled like a Breva than the preceding V11 Sport (and the ergonomics are completely different).
So, Guzzi seems to be in an interesting position –
they build bikes capable of being collectible (for various reasons) and run those bikes for select years at a time.
Guzzi – build a street-legal MGS-01 !
Steve Knudsen says
I ride a 2000 Triumph Sprint RS. It is not the sharpest honed sport bike by any means. It is, however, a great sport-touring bike with soft luggage, handling that is beyond my capabilities and a terrific 955 triple. The broad torque and unique sound never cease to entertain me.
Will it be collectible? Probably not, though the numbers are not overly huge. However, I hope to enjoy it for several more years and many more miles. Lucifer Orange paint also sets it apart from everyone else. Life is good.
akbar says
Hoyt,
I don’t know much about the newer Guzzis. I had a 72 Eldorado for a time, it was somewhat of a beater, but I still sold it for aroung $3,000 same as I paid for it. I also now own, for good or for ill, a ’73 Eldorado basket case, that given time and money I will restore. If http://www.cyclegarden.com is any indication, there is an active market for them
davidabl says
Seems like a really valuable “investment bike” would need to
be kept for a number of decades to really appreciate, and
thus would need a signifigant expenditure of time and money
(climate controlled storage etc.etc) to keep it looking pristine.
If you actually rode it it might get scratched, worn etc. thus more
investment required.
IF you run the numbers is any classic really a good “investment”
or is it really a money pit? Don’t know but I wonder.
kneeslider says
“Seems like a really valuable “investment bike†would need to be kept for a number of decades to really appreciate”
That’s exactly the problem. Buy them because you like them, for whatever reason that may be but as “investments” they are very slow to appreciate.
Many long time riders remember all of the current collectible bikes they once had or could have bought for a song and, wiser now, they look for the next big winner. But, being older as well as wiser, they may not have the time to cash in. A young enthusiast is the one who is in a position to see his collection appreciate but how many young riders have the storage space and capital to take advantage of time, or even the desire?
It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has had great returns on motorcycle “investments,” other than by accident.
Buy motorcycles and ride them, work on them, enjoy them, if they appreciate, great, if not, no big deal.
akbar says
“Buy motorcycles and ride them, work on them, enjoy them, if they appreciate, great, if not, no big deal.”
Absolutely, well said. Anymore, just the statement of ‘collectible’ really turns me away. That said, I did own a 1960 Panhead, all stock, that I paid a fair amount for. I rode it for 5 years and sold it for the same amount I bought it for