Scott Colosimo, from Cleveland CycleWerks, sent me a note a short while ago and thought we might be interested in his company. His idea is to build a “working man’s motorcycle,” something built with quality but priced low enough that the average working guy can buy one without breaking the bank.
Scott is from Cleveland, Ohio, and he tells me he tried to build the bike there but he couldn’t get the support he was looking for and manufacturers he talked to shied away from motorcycles due to liability concerns. So, after designing the bikes and with plans in hand he arranged for contract manufacturing in China to make the bikes a reality.
The bike shown above is called the Misfit, a 250cc standard that looks pretty interesting. It doesn’t seem to be available just yet but pricing is in the $2399 to $2499 range.
The Heist is a 250cc bobber, with a 125cc version available in Europe and there’s even a 50cc model available worldwide. The 250cc model is $2999, definitely affordable for almost anyone. I can appreciate what he’s built here and if the quality is as high as he says, then it offers a wallet friendly way of buying something new.
There are some other models offered, or coming soon, and a few drawings of what appear to be future planned models. The Hooligan is a 250cc Motard coming soon, another called the Cleveland Hustla, the Mutiny, a hardtail plus 2 upcoming models, a cafe and a muscle bike.
Many of us have seen the quality of inexpensive Chinese bikes and that concern is going to be in the back of anyone’s mind when looking at a bike at this price point, but Scott assures me, quality is high on his list of requirements and these bikes meet his demand for a high quality and low price motorcycle. Of course, many manufacturers, including the Japanese big four, are building bikes in China themselves, so this should be a lesser concern in the future. Time will tell as our experience with these bikes increases.
I’m disappointed that someone from Cleveland found it so hard to build something like this at home, especially since the number of welders and machinists in the area isn’t trivial, not to mention shops that could handle the work. If his attempts to make it work here were as difficult as he says, that’s not a good sign, though I don’t know all of the details of what those difficulties actually were. When someone in a manufacturing region in the US has to get this sort of bike built in China, I just have to shake my head.
At any rate, the bikes look pretty decent, not a high end custom, but definitely an affordable “working man’s bike” and a nice effort on Scott’s part to get something built rather than dreaming and doing nothing and for that, he certainly deserves credit. Good job, Scott.
Here’s the Cleveland CycleWerks press release:
Cleveland CycleWerks stems from the truest definition of “entrepreneurial sprit:†the American idea that if you have a dream, passion and drive you can achieve it.
CCW was the vision of Scott Colosimo, a dream that began at age 15 and stemmed from his fascination and love for building custom bikes. As he grew, Scott honed his design skills in Automotive design in Cleveland, Detroit, Germany and Slovakia and was assured by many that he had the ambition and talent to do something bigger. Developing motorcycles continued to be his most passionate hobby. Scott’s favorite accomplishments were designing and building custom bikes.
Scott studied transportation design at the Cleveland Institute of Art and worked in various industrial design roles throughout his professional career.
It wasn’t until winter, 2009 when Scott took his dream of building bikes full-time, seriously. One night, he found himself in a bar with his friend and colleague, Jarrod Streng, depressed, frustrated and unemployed. Scott and Jarrod had been laid off for the first time in their careers and the thought was sobering. They both discussed their true passions, which didn’t have anything to do with their previous job of designing, developing and manufacturing vacuums. Scott explained his idea of building custom, modern bikes with old-school design at a reasonable cost; much like his own bobber which cost him under $5,000 not $30,000 and was admired by everyone who saw it.
Jarrod, who had entrepreneurial aspirations himself, believed in Scott’s vision and put a business plan in place as well as the funding to create 30 bikes. With this, CCW’s design house was born at a friend’s garage in Ashland, Ohio, as Scott began hand fabricating the first prototypes.
However, when it came to producing the bikes, Jarrod and Scott hit many roadblocks on their quest to manufacture in Cleveland, Ohio. They contacted investors, government agencies and every city organization they could find. Unfortunately they were turned away and told they had a lack of experience, knowledge or that they were just plain crazy. But with determination, the partners were able to encourage one investor to take a risk on CCW, and that was Curtis Ray. Curtis had strong manufacturing relationships in China and developed a strategy to manufacture the bike in a trusted facility.
Scott began limited production while living in rural China for six months. During this time he developed a manufacturing process with quality control measures that is currently ready to support mass production. With continued time in China over the last 14 months, Scott has successfully implemented a low cost, flexible production strategy.
Cleveland CycleWerks debuted their first bike, “tha Heist,†in February 2010 at the Indianapolis Dealer Expo to much industry praise and dealer interest. Jarrod and Scott are beginning worldwide distribution for CCW in April 2010 where they will provide custom bikes for all and fulfill Scott’s dream in the process.
Link: Cleveland CycleWerks
MikeC says
Great job! I wish you the best of luck with your venture.
Too bad this can’t be more home grown. I see it everyday in manufacturing that the north american heartland is becoming less competitive at mass production, primarily due to increases in wages and the associated costs such as benefits. While everyone deserves a fair wage, the old adage of you get what you pay for should be stronger in our society. In China, typically you get more than what you pay for as the country is suppressed in wages. Consumerism by China’s middle will change that eventually. Unfortunately, China is the Japan of the 70’s, only they have exponentially more population to draw from.
Good luck CCW!
Phoebe says
I think any new small bikes available in the US is a good thing. Not everyone wants a big bike, and not everyone wants to buy an old, small bike and have to work on it to get it on the road. This and Johnny Pag’s offerings fit the bill for folks like that.
Derek Larsen says
i saw a comment about Cleveland CycleWerks on the previous posting and I just knew i had to have one. I emailed them and they said that all of their current stock was completely sold out (Big surprise!) but they would have fresh models to sell in about 90 days. I didn’t get a comprehensive list of retail locations however.
Normally I’d be concerned about Chinese made products, but it looks like this is an original design and not something a factory is making based on tooling they received from another manufacturer. I mean, the dude lived in China for 5 months, according to the press release. I would like to see something like this to be 100% American, but I can totally sympathize with their plight. This is a bike that most American consumers would have to be force-fed. I’m sure alot of qualified workers in the motorcycle industry would rather stay unemployed than to make what American motorcycling, most likely considers to be “a girls bike.” At the same time, investors in this country have such high expectations of profit margins, that to not manufacture overseas is seen as irresponsible.
Derek Larsen says
oh, and the misfit is still cheaper than it’s closest competitor. the Daelim Roadwin.
http://www.daelimusa.com/guia/comercios/daelimusa/html/inicio.htm
nortley says
Great looking machine, but what a shame the working man won’t be building them.
Tin Man 2 says
This size bike is what we need in the market. However calling the Chinese bike a Cleveland Cycle Works is a feeble attempt to hide its true heritage and get around the stigma of a low quality Chinese bike. There are many who will jump on the chance to buy a cheap bike built by the Exploited Chinese workers, I wont be one of them. We have higher costs in the U.S. because we have Pollution standards, Health and Safety standards and enforce Child Labor laws.
Mule says
Sorry, I wouldn’t knowingly support Chinese workers. It’s a divisive topic and I’d rather see stuff built here by American people.
Stuff built here is built with a passion for the product….usually. In China, they build stuff for survival or to feed themselves. It shows in their lead-filled toys and medical products or ripping off Trademarked products with little upfront investment. China…yuk!
durda says
“…he couldn’t get the support he was looking for and manufacturers he talked to shied away from motorcycles due to liability concerns.”
Man, I hope he’s lying.
Swagger says
While I see the desperate need to put Americans to work and I’d much rather buy a product made here I think it’s kind of sad that some American’s dream gets dumped on because against all effort that American had to go elsewhere to get it built. As odious as some make it out to be…at least he got it built. That’s much MUCH more than I can say for the vast majority of detractors, the Mule included. As much as it pains me to say this I will just the same.
Do better.
If you can build a quality motorcycle of this nature using only US workers and US manufacturing and US materials, and build one of the same quality to be a direct price/feature competitor then do so. The bottom line is, you can’t. Not a single one of you. As odious as a “Global Economy” may be to some with a strong nationalistic bent, it’s just a fact of life. Get over it.
These guys deserve applause, not jeers. I’m disappointed….
Marvin says
I like the hooligan and the misfit a lot, the misfit reminds me of an old smoky MZ TS250 I think its the exhaust and squarish tank. With regard to the comments regarding Chinese working conditions I find it a little strange that this never comes up in relation to Enfields. I have been to both India and China working in factories and the Chinese conditions are about 5 years behind those in India. In factories set up by western or Japanese companies the conditions are really pretty good, of course workers know they can easily be replaced so none were going to complain to me but health and safety standards were strictly adhered to if only to avoid having to stop a machine to sweep someone fingers out. Being on the wrong side of 100Kg I think I would need a 400cc but I’m sure they will come as capacities seem to increase as motorbike companies mature. On a slightly bitter note it looks like the next engine will be a V twin which seems like a shame, it gets boring looking across from this side of the pond and seeing these endless V-twins the US churns out.
frozen prairie says
Mule, Tin Man2, if you own anything electronic, or wear clothes, you are probably supporting Chinese workers. Don’t assume that all Chinese-built stuff is of low quality. There are good and bad builders there too. My Dell computer was made in China and it works fine, and my General International 6″ jointer is faultless, but my 20 year old King bandsaw has a number of alignment issues.
What you say about China’s labor and environmental standards is true though, and it does create an uneven playing field for North American (and European) manufacturers.
For most consumer products though, it’s hard to get people to pay for a home-built item when there is a near-equivalent imported one available for less than half the price.
Tin Man 2 says
Swagger, In India (democracy) the workers are not beaten for protesting Health and Safety issues, Look up Chinas record and see how the Reds handle dissent. I have my standards and will not knowingly support a repressive regime if I have a choice. I find it shocking that the same people who fight global warming and complain about the patriot act have no trouble being a China deffender. Grow some Ethics!!
zyxw says
Love it! We need more variety in small bikes. I look forward to seeing a 350 and 500 version some day.
Nicolas says
One of the oldest, largest and most respected great american company, the one that employs me, is sourcing a significant amount of components and systems from chinese companies. It’s not about ethics, it’s about being competitive enough to keep it’s american workers and american plants running.
You can identify and developp LCC suppliers that take care of their workers and provide a good level of quality. None of these suppliers have EHS, safety or environmental issues, workers are qualifed, correctly trained and paid. We would not put the logo of the company on junk or material from discutable origins.
So … if an American company can proudly design, produce and sell a nice 250 for $2500 and put an eagle sticker on it, that’s great and I applause. Now, it still needs to be seen …
SteveD says
It’s a nice little bike. It could be really appealing at that price. My wife likes small bikes like the Suzuki Savage so this could be a real possibility. If it were $7K made in the USA I’m not sure it would sell. That’s just the reality of the market. Maybe folks might reject the cheaper one because of some problem with China, but that doesn’t mean they would buy the more expensive US version. Most likely they just wouldn’t buy one.
Jim Flower says
As a small manufacturer in Washington State, I can attest to the unbelievable hinderances of turning out a product for a reasonable price. Gawd, where do I start?
Liability: we live in the most litigous society in the world, where anybody can sue anyone for any trivial or frivolous matter, with no reprocussions. (Think med. malpractice, can you say “tort reform?)
Government regulations and taxes: they actually charge me for the rain that falls on my roof, and call it a stormwater runoff permit.
There is a “hazardous waste fee” even though I generate none, and recycle everything. There is “Labor and Industries” mandatory insurance for employees that is so expensive (and intrusive, the State likes to make surprise visits) that finally I chose to not hire anybody.
There is a “business and occupation tax” based on gross, applies whether you make a profit or not.
There is a “use tax” that is the same as sales tax, on the value of every damn thing you own, every year, for as long as you live.
There is an “anti-discrimination ” law that clearly states that if I advertize for a Parts Counterman, and a guy dressed like Corporal Klinger from TV’s MASH applies, I gotta hire the fruitcake. Imagine the effect on parts sales.
Then of course there is the sales tax that is so high that I continually lose sales over it.
Boeing left this state for a good reason: you cannot make a profit here, ever.
I wish this enterprise well, and I understand Mule’s position; but the reality for enterprise Absolutly Sucks in this one time great nation.
This observation is after 23 years in business.
Jim
JerseyMayhem says
I’m digging that Misfit and Hooligan.
I’m a little disappointed that the engines will be 250cc and not something larger like a 500cc single or a small v-twin. I would love to get a second bike and this would be right up my alley, but after riding a 250cc last night, I will never consider buying a 250, unless its a lawnmower.
I will give this guy props though, he did it all himself and he found production and he’s fulfilling his goal.
I just reread the article and see about a few new models coming, cool, I will be looking into this company again, maybe a slightly larger engine is in the works for my slightly larger frame…
Swagger says
TinMan…don’t misunderstand me….it sucks that he had to go to China to build his product. That blows. It also blows that some poor kat in Beijing might be working under poor conditions. I’m not advocating the details of the situation in any way, but to wave that about as a distraction of poorly veiled blind nationalism is unfortunate. Ethics indeed.
Ethics aren’t going to feed my family, ethics isn’t going to make parts to keep my computer running for another year nor will a hollow ethics argument buy you a cup of coffee.
However, I will applaud you for standing up for your beliefs even if you do need to stoop to lame and again thinly veiled insults to facilitate the continuation of your tenuous position.
WillyP says
Jim Flower, move to NH! Live Free or Die!
But anyway… who the heck wants a 250cc street bike? I could dig the trail bike, except it needs more agressive tires. Buyt you can ride a 250 around town, solo, for a few hours, that’s about it. And a 250cc chopper? wtf?
Mule says
If a bike was built by the Taliban cheaper than the Chinese, would you guys be saying, “They build what I want at the lowest price, so we should support them.”
When your product line, your company, your livelihood or your income moves offshore, it will all make sense. I’m all for capitalism and getting the most for your dollars, but when all the manufacturing gets vaccuumed out of this country, at some point you guys will realise this is actually a bad thing. Not to worry, Obama will fix everything. We’ll all be building roads or become census workers.
No it’s not possible to boycott Chinese goods, unless you want to “Walk” around naked with no watch, TV or computer and cook on a wood fire. I think some of the vegtables I eat are from this country, but I could be wrong.
Tin Man 2 says
Swagger, Lame arguments? Not! You are unable to refute any of my points so you resort to using big words to confuse the issue…Greed of the consumer, seems to over ride any thoughts of Explotation in your mind. That is pretty much what Ethics is all about. If having an Ethical outlook will keep food off your familys table, maybe you dont need another motorcycle.
SteveD says
I can’t ride sportbikes for more than a few hours anyway, given the ergonomics. (actually, I’ve never made it more than an hour) So a little 250 I could just blast around on would be fine. My wife’s savage peaks out around 31-33 hp and power is never the problem. For that matter, how many Rebels does Honda sell?
Zac says
I would buy one. Its clean and solid looking. It would be a great bike for my GF
Nicolas says
yeah, it’s much more ethical to let 3rd world country be 3rd world country and not buy overpriced stuff locally bc it doesn’t even exist … a good outsourcing policy not only makes industrial projects viable in long term, keeping jobs for local american folks, but it also help the LCC country to grow to an acceptable level of economical and social development. As I understand the posts from Tin Man & Co, it’s ethic to not have a chinese-made bike (which has no domestic competition, anyways) and let the chinese folks die in their distant cr@p. Curious concept of ethics.
Then, as demonstrated by the post above showing the difficulty to create and manage a business in this country, without the chinese manufacturing it wouldn’t have been possible for this small company to exist. I’m sure they have a handful of american employees to take care of the design, logistic, administrative, business, honest people who make a honest living by importing the bikes assembled in China, and it’s better than not working at not assembling bikes in the US.
And you know what ? The 2nd or 3rd generation of chinese folks that will grow and get wealthy, what kind of bike will they buy and ride ? I bet you that they will buy Harley Davidson, because of the statutory image, keeping american workers busy and happy. For comparison, GMC today sells more vehicles in China than in the US … just food for thoughts. You keep yourself barricated in your backyard, or you try and live with the world as it is.
Nothing keeps you from barhoping on a HD with a stars and stripe flag in the weekend, and commute on a cheap imported vehicle during the week (or the opposite). Nobody says we need to outsource everything, we just say that what can’t be done locally can be done properly somewhere else.
woolyhead says
Being between a rock and a hard place…..I want a 250 to add to my fleet that already includes a real 1000 Katana and a 500cc suzuki 2 stroke. The Japanese small bikes are way too pricey at the moment……but I’m a little leery of Chinese quality control which is otherwise a viable alternative price-wise…….
Emmet says
Americans ask for innovation. The only innovation they accomplish is by laying off the labor force and replace them with automated machines, which are built in China. It seems the only way to make a profit is to give up on the strict manufacturing environment in America and outsource. *sigh
Those are interesting bikes but quality is questionable at that price. Heist is a very clean design (although missing some DOT requirements). It seems CycleWerks is trying to offer everything without tradeoffs, and you know the saying when something sounds too good to be true… I hope I’m wrong and this becomes a reality in the states, these would be cool beginner bikes!
LASOVAN says
To TinMan2:Are there no illegal workers in the states?Do all workers have health ensurance? Does every manufacturer (of whatever products) recycle,or does not pollute the ambient? Talk about ethics:usa=china(almost,china is much bigger…) (In the USA everybody pay tax,and all products are superior)not…………ethic? PS.sorry for poor language,im from China no mean to offend thank you,good luck!!
todd says
I like it too. I’m holding out for the Vento 400 Cafe since I believe I had a hand in convincing Mario Cisneros of Vento to build it. That or the Sym Wolf.
Can anyone here name any motorcycle or motorcycle company that doesn’t support Chinese manufacturing? How much of anything is made (not just assembled from Chinese or Taiwanese parts) in the USA now? If we buy a Cleveland motorcycle how many Americans are involved with its design, delivery, and support? I’d say MANY, not only Scott Colosimo.
Of course, since I rarely buy anything at all new (other than food and gas) most of the money I “spend” stays in the US going entirely to the guy who sold it to me. The lion’s share of my income stays within the US. My taxes employ government employees, my mortgage company (GMAC) gets a huge chunk, insurance (way too much), grocery outlets and restaurants, phone companies, public utility companies… I mean, really, how much of our money actually makes it to other countries? 5%? Less? Considering my annual budget for retail consumables I’d say less than 1% even if I assume 100% of each sale goes to the foreign company (in reality it’s more like 20%). That means 99% of my money is employing people or maintaining systems in the USA.
-todd
FREEMAN says
I work for an American manufacturer. I won’t say who because I’m not allowed to talk bad about them, so you can all speculate if you wish, but they started outsourcing their new line to numerous suppliers and the quality we receive at our plant has been disastrous. We have suppliers all over the world, even in the US. We spend more time fixing supplier defects than actually manufacturing our own product. Many, and probably the worst, of those defects come from our suppliers in the country. I agree with what Jim Flower says about the ridiculous government fees and how unfriendly the state can be to the manufacturer or business owner. However, it’s not all one-sided. I can attest that our US suppliers have some of the worst quality I have ever seen, but so do many of our over-seas suppliers. It all depends on the company and how well they train their employees and whether their employer keeps them happy and accountable. You cannot blame an entire country for the quality of one company.
That said, I like the Misfit.
aaron says
business is business, anyone asked to supply a product will meet all the required conditions and deliver it at the agreed upon price. the conditions are set during initial negotiation, and lawyers will crawl around the final draft and ensure that most murky language is eliminated. most conditions are based around materials, tolerances, etc. – if the factory is required to provide a quarter pounder with cheese for every employee during the required 30 minute paid lunch (and not beat the shit out of them) as a part of the contract, the cost will go up a little, but the factory will comply. if toxic waste is required to be sealed up and delivered to a suitable processing plant, it will be – if there is suitable financial incentive to do so. if it is required that a team of american supervisors be present to ensure compliance, a price will be agreed upon to offset this condition.
after the agreement is signed, lawyers for both parties will exploit anything not specified in the final contract. this is not a specific trait of the chinese. have a look at general motors. higher inherited costs are not the fault of the “slanty eyed yeller people” – it is either the problem of the government, or the expectations of the “working man” and the unions they form. (it is evident to most people who have to live with any of their vehicles after the warranty has run out where corners are cut to maximize profit.)
if the “patriots” think it is the fault of the chinese that things like labor standards, environmental practices, proper quality control, etc. are not specified by the american companies that do business with them, enjoy losing your jobs to abused workers overseas. don’t demand that domestic companies ensure that products bearing their name are built by workers who are well treated, etc. because, you know, doing so would only bring costs of manufacturing overseas closer to that of domestic production, and make local competition more feasible.
on a bike related note – what is the origin of the engine?
Don says
I saw the Heist or identical ones at a China trade show 6 months ago and was impressed with the bikes and the quality.
I am also a bike parts manufacturer in Asia, keeping your finger on the pulse regarding quality is the secret, I can produce better quality parts than in the west
at a fraction of the cost, and no over regulation, thats the reason I do it.
Clawbrant says
I like these, but I have to wonder why they chose a single cylinder engine when you can easily get a chinese built twin. Rebel based twins are a dime a dozen and you don’t have to look hard to find a virago based V. In fact the Vtwins come in two flavors: 250 and 400. Johnny Pag uses a a bored out, liquid cooled, Rebel clone and seeing as he is their closest competition, these guys need to get a higher spec motor.
WRXr says
I like it. The Misfit looks really cool.
steve w says
No question the next Japanese revolution is going to hapen from some other country. What it will really take is someone to setup the proper distribution system and then look out. I doubt these engines were developed just for these bikes but sourced from something else and the bike designed around then. We need good smaller bikes in the sizes we see here but are these it? I keep thinking back to 250/305/350 Hondas and Yamahas as what is really needed although except for Honda most were 2 strokes. These bikes performed for what they were. How will these muster in comparison?
Scott Colosimo says
Hey guys just wanted to chime in. We are doing more and more in the USA these days. Distribution setup in the US, we have a few customs that are being done by US builders, and we have some limited production runs that are going to be completed in Ohio. The main thing is when you have a dream, you can not let roadblocks stand in your way. We tried for 6 months to get everything setup in Cleveland, but were told, “we are not interested in manufacturing motorcycle parts because of liability” by just about everyone. I love my town and would have loved to do everything in Cleveland, but it was just not in the cards. In the future as we gain more traction, you can be assured we will be bringing as much to the states as we can. 🙂
joe says
I guess if you can persude US workers to perform for 45 cents per hour and work in unhealthy conditions for 12 hours a day, US companies may be able to compete with China on price. I’ts just not going to happen !!
True Blue says
I like it, specially given the price point, and I assume that the quality is great because it is made in China.
It is a myth that American comanies can’t compete with China because of pollution issues, health concerns, etc… It’s very hard to compete with a country that is full of resilient workers who are willing to forsake their individual needs to serve the collective, while American “workers” grow fat eating McDonalds and sue everyone and their mom.
As for American products being “better” — how many recalls did Harley do last year?
Don says
Joe. 45 cents per hour, Noooo much less than that I assure you.
smithmotorwheel says
Congratulations to Scott Colosimo and Cleveland CycleWerks! You have some great looking products.
I’d like to say you have every right to use the name of a US city for your company. I applaud you for attempting to keep your manufacturing red,white, and blue. But when you have unskilled labor in the US expecting to make 6 figures and more government involvement than George Orwell could imagine, I can understand why that it isn’t possible.
I’m an industrial design engineer for a US company that’s been around since 1946 and I know that there simply isn’t any way to be price competitive by manufacturing the bulk of our products in the US (we do have the original plant from ’46 that we try to use to produce as much as we can).
I hate the fact that our manufacturing is moving overseas and I would love to see the US become the manufacturing giant that it once was, but if you don’t have a skill, you’re no better than the kid flipping burgers at McDonald’s and you don’t deserve to be making 5x the minimum wage.
I hope the culture in the US changes and people that don’t have one acquire a skill or learn a trade. Until then our country will be the ‘brain’ and the 3rd world will be the ‘brawn’.
Thom says
I get so disappointed in my country when I read all these posts poo-pooing how an American with an idea could put it to use. So he has to manufacture bikes in China? Maybe we should stop being such a litigious bunch of whiny #$@#!es and help out? If you don’t want people in America going to China for labor, then DONATE ‘YOUR’ TIME. If you’re not willing to help out a fellow American by giving up some of the time you spend watching TV or complaining on the net, or donating some of the cash you spend on coffee and cheeseburgers, then SHUT UP. I’ll say right now, I’ve worked in the motorcycle industry for years, and I will gladly give up my TV, DVD’s, CD’s, and time previously spent at the bar if it means my fellow man can successfully manufacture an AMERICAN made motorcycle that will sell for an affordable price. Well…. if I get a GOOD DEAL on a bike myself…. 😉 Anything to knock the smug off of Harley.
C R says
To clear up all the misunderstandings for all those who have never been to China. I have worked with over 40 different factories and have been there 8 times. In no factory I have been in yet has ever had kids working in it. They work a very strict 8 hour days (not a minute more), and they take a 1 hour lunch with a 30 min nap. Yes they only get paid on average $2-3 hour but also take into consideration their room and board and most meals are covered also. They are happy, work hard, and proud of what they do. China is not a 3rd world country anymore. The quality standards have increased tremendously over the last 5 years. Almost every company in the world uses China for something. These bike are sweet bikes! Scott is the man!
Niel says
It would cheaper if he would just get bikes imported from the indian market.
Scott Colosimo says
My response to Anti-Chinese sentiment here: To those talking about exploitation of Chinese workers. Our factories are state of the art. Assembly factory works 8-10 hour days depending on how busy we are. The workers lunch (1 hour) is provided by the factory, after lunch there are basketball courts and a huge lawn to play soccer, also ping pong tables for some friendly competition. Most of our parts suppliers are ISO certified. The life that factory workers live over here (in China) is nothing like what most people sitting in middle America imagine. I live in China and am typing this from the factory. I have worked for GM, Ford, Chrysler, Nissan, etc. The factories I work with over here are not any different from the automotive factories I have worked with in the USA. It is time to get over your racist, biased, and skewed views, and deal with facts. Most people I talk to that have anti-Chinese sentiment, base it on opinion that is just not true (and definitely not fact). We are part of a world economy, and many of these anti-Chinese statements fail to realize that fact. Dell Computers, Apple, Walmart, GM (Buick), Harley Davidson Parts, V-Twin Manufacturing Company, Rev-Tech, etc.etc.etc.etc.etc. All made in China. My company is just 1 in a list of millions that manufacturers outside the USA. I will never change the racist views of others, all I can do is manufacture products in an ethical way, with cost in mind. The consumer will be the deciding factor. If there is a place in the market for my products (and I know there is) then we will be successful.
Kenny says
@Nicolas: Thank you. I remember trying to give the same argument a while back, but you worded it much better.
@WillyP: I wouldn’t sniff at 250cc. I run a CBR250R, and while I would love to have a little more grunt, it still didn’t stop me from managing a three car overtake……on Irish roads, yesterday.
frozen prairie says
In China millions of people buy and ride small displacement bikes because that’s all they can afford. And they use them for transportation, not just for recreational cruising and posing when the weather is nice.
This gives the Chinese manufacturers a great advantage, as they can sell the same, simple models for years without having to spend R-and-D money on ABS brakes, tunable suspensions, big horsepower, stiffer frames, etc.
Here in Canada and the USA our affluence has spoiled us. Most motorcycle buyers want something that’s big/powerful/sporty/fast. How many Harley riders would buy a 250cc Harley even if it were of high quality and cost $2500 ? None of the twenty or so Hog owners that I know. Look at the comments above, a number of them say the Cleveland bikes should have bigger engines, V-twins, they’re just beginner/girls’ bikes.
I’m a fan of smaller bikes, but I think we won’t buy them in huge numbers over here unless we get a lot poorer (hey, that’s happening already), or there is a big tax on luxury items such as big cars and motorcycles, or the price of gas really skyrockets, or…?
lostinoz says
To hell with the China vs America debate… thats way overplayed… for those that want to bitch about “the damn chinese merchandise” come back when you find an American made computer.
The REAL reason we’re here is to debate the MOTORCYCLE!!!!!!!!
That being said, looking at the website, I see a few models that spark my interests, however my 220 lb ass will not work on a 250cc motorcycle. A 400cc thumper is something to be talked about here, or a 500cc parallel twin would be great.
The heist is a perfect bike to bomb around on in town, and my wife’s favorite style of bike as well. Lets crank it up to a 500 thumper and keep the price in the ballpark (not 2g higher) and you will have her sold. Her bike is a 400 thumper bobber and her only complaint about a hand built bobber is the kick start only. NUFF SAID!
The Hustla is a nice cafe, however if I wanted a V-twin cafe I’d buy a Ducati… oh wait, I already own one, and its got 500cc’s more. Put a 400 thumper or a 500 parallel in it, perhaps that 400 triple from Vento, and now we’re talking a light (hopefully) agile bike with (again hopefully) enough power to get out of its own way (with my 220 lb ass on it) that will STILL get good economy (the wife’s 400 cc thumper bobber STILL gets 50-60 mpg and its a carbed NINETEEN EIGHTY! it blows the 750 Ducati away and its fuel injected) and be different enough to stand out in a crowd with minimal paint and custom touches.
I’m not one that NEEDS 1.8 liters in my motorcycle, I PREFER the 400-600 (non racebike) engines, and I’ve been riding for 20 years. Hell the 883 sporty is too big a bike for my preference, but a 250 is just TOO small. STOP IGNORING THE HALF LITERS!!!! Im sick of either over kill or under achievement of the Japanese and Chinese bikes. My next purchase, and perhaps next FEW purchases will be Royal Enfields and a WHOLE lot of customization parts to CREATE either a 500 chopper, bobber or cafe unless someone else can start to fill the niche. BTW next purchase? beginning of next season, no later than April, we’re content with the two we have for now, so I AM putting money where mouth is after the Ducati hits 30k. (at 19k right now)
David/cigarrz says
My hats off to all you fellow travelers that know the truth about Chinese manufacturing. I have fought this battle here and other places and wont do it here again. Scott my hats off to you on seeing your ideas through and am envious of the food I know your eating, when I was there I would have been completely happy if I could have had a big mac once a month but other than that is was some of the most exciting times of my life. The Chinese are eager to meet our manufacturing needs and want to learn the proper way to do things from the Americans they work with, and will meet or exceed any requirement we asked of them. I am equally disturbed that no one here has a problem with the nationalization of GM and Chrysler but have problems with government ties in China. If your disgruntled by the state of manufacturing in America, the next time you see a union worker or politician of any strip or a government bureaucrat give them a big pat on the back for the fine export job they have done. Contracts, regulations, taxes and lies sent your jobs overseas not evil capitalist.
Benjamin @ EV says
Love the look of the Misfit, too bad they can’t manufacture in the US though.
Don says
Onya Scott, and you to David, its only guys like you and me who can see the real picture, China is what Japan was about 40 years ago, the same will happen but on a larger scale,be prepared!! I remember when I was a kid “Made in Japan” was junk, look at Japan now, China is a sleeping giant waking up right now, its guys like Scott, David and myself who realize this. We are doers.
Karan says
Cheap?
Then how about a 220cc single with more than 20 horses and naked styling – yours for under US$2000 – now this is what a value motorcycle is called.
See http://bunnypunia.blogspot.com/2010/02/2010-bajaj-pulsar-220-s-naked-pictorial.html
Bigshankhank says
Bravo Scott, I really dig your vision.
patty23 says
I am a little motorcycles builder so cannot speak about other makes (small or larger) but my own experience in a branch of a famous japanese bike manufacturer (which favourite colour is “lime green :)) suggest me a simple advice.
USA, UK and Italy (and in a certain way, also the Germans) have their own knowledge, tradition and taste to make motorcycles full of its specific personality.
We have to preserve it , taking in our background what is good and (eventually) lookin’ at what we can learn from similar countries. I mean a 30% of German quality, a a 30% Italian “sport and glamour” look and finishing, a 30% of British taste and , last but not least, a 10% of the American “ride to live” way and the good customer care. Or different “mixtures” depending of what kind of “special bike” you like and need.
But avoiding to teach to some “followers” and “clone makers” from Far East how design and manufacture motorcycles as we actually make.
Now they can be cheap and quiet suppliers and you can make money trading pieces or complete bikes manufactured under our specifications, but tomorrow they can became strong competitors and cancelling the former customers as did in the bycycles and Hi-fi field, where Taiwan and China now are the World leaders, trading the products direcly, after being suppliers of the various Specialized , Schwinn and so-called american companies….
This is my own opinion, and can be discussed but I had a precise experience of some filelds where Italians, Germans, British and American companies, used at the first step Far East suppliers , giving them know -ow, human resources and money, then becaming partners and finally pushed off from the market by the former suppliers.
Good evening ad take care of yourself.
Fabrizio (nine times in Taiwan for working from 1990 to 2000…)
AlwaysOnTwo says
Job well done.
I own a V-Max, a Norton 750, a BMW 1200RC, AND a Lifan 250 Chinese clone of the Honda Rebel.
The Lifan is a truly cheap bike, primarily in the engine component and metallurgy departments. Quality control is poor compared to the others, by far. Hmmm, guess that’s another major part of why it only cost me $2100. I would equate the engine to that of a lawnmower in construction and ease of maintenance and repair.
But I use it at least every other day just to make short runs to the store and a few blocks away to visit fellow riders of the big, real bikes, and in that venue it fills a purpose and shines at just getting the job done. There’s at least a dozen guys around here that have some sort of clone as a second in-town commuter bike, mostly 150 twist n go scoots.
You’d be hard pressed to find anyone laughing at us, but a few get the idea and laugh with us.
As for the China political debate, why don’t the nay sayers check out http://www.treas.gov/tic/mfh.txt
and you’ll see that China holds 44 percent of our national debt. That’s right, China is our biggest financial supporter. Without China, we wouldn’t be able to afford virtually any national government or services. Let alone watch a TV or use a computer. So think of it this way, buy a clone, save the U.S.A. from bankruptcy.
The world is a lot more complicated than just pooh-poohing another countries internal policies and problems. You might want to read a few European papers online from time to time and see what the rest of the world thinks about our corruption and crime rates.
Bottom line, don’t over think it. If the bike serves your purpose, buy it. The guy selling these in Wisconsin is not from China and he has a family, too. He’d use a $400.00 US motor (cost of the clone) if there was such a thing. He set his sight on a market and pushed through until he succeeded at producing a product.
I wish him good luck.
steve says
the misfit looks like a cheap copy of the Ducati GT1000
Mule says
Scott C.,
I don’t think the anti-Chinese sentiment has anything to do with race or “racism”. It’s about the frustration that while the US manufacturing structure is crumbling, China’s is expanding at an astronomical rate. The bottom line is, Americans live here. Not China. I have nothing against China. Can you please ask them to pay my mortgage and make my truck payment? Thanks, Mule.
Kenny says
@Mule: Give them a little longer and they’ll be asking you to pay them your mortgage.
http://www.treas.gov/tic/mfh.txt
almost a quarter of the US national debt is owned by the chinese.
As for the bikes, I think Scott has a good range coming up there, though I’m not too sure about the small-bore hardtail, but the muscle version sounds interesting and doubly so the cafe racer.
I wish you guys the best of luck and hope to hear more.
Brad says
Ok I have to speak up a bit, I do understand the arguments about out-sourcing your production and about business in general, we all want to get paid for what we do, But that is not the big thing here, near the top are comments from him stating that he could not build his bikes because of liability and other issues. Well I’m in Canada, Alberta, the one province in our country where you used to be able to build a motorcycle from old parts and build your own frames as well. Now we have to stick to government guidelines as to what we can put on the roads here, no longer are we allowed to build our own frames, they are too unsafe for our people to risk riding, but if you take the part of the frame with the serial number on it and weld any type of crap around it they say it is the same as the frame that came with the bike, and it is good to go?? What the hell is that about??? When we build now, the frames have to come from a registered builder or company and most from the USA, won’t pass whatever laws we have for safety here. We had a few models of motorcycles built on 500cc and 600cc to 650cc dirt bike or dualpurpose bike motors. Once the build was finished and we tried to get them on the roads, they wanted us to supply the government crash test labs with five completed bikes just so they could distroy them, not to mention frames stress tests and numerous other stuff that has nothing to do with ridability of the machines? With restrictions like this and I imagine you have the same types of problems where you are at, why would you not go somewhere else and get things done cheaper and be able to follow your dream?
Many good wishes to CCW, and their owners and people and I truely hope they follow through and maybe just maybe make some money and have some fun at the same time. For the people who are detrackters of this project, don’t say a word unless you can do better, and if not better get off your arses and build your own, at least this man is doing what he wants, and getting what he wants out of life,the question is ARE YOU?
Cruisingram says
Hi, my name is Don Moody, and I work with Scott, and have the first registered and titled legal Heist in the country. I chose the “Mods vs Rockers” in Dallas to unviel the bike, and attest to it’s quality, design and ease of assembly for potential dealers. I flew from Anchorage, Alaska to Dallas, Texas, met the bike in a crate. I assembled it in the hotel parking lot, and promptly rode it for nearly 150 miles, without even so much as a hiccup. The bike is as solid as any Japanese or Euro or American bike I have ever had- and I am a total bike whore, and two wheels are a life-long passion of mine. If you click on Cleveland Cycle werks site “where to buy”- you will see my website, and further information will be coming later this week. Stay tuned kiddos- it promises to be a fun ride- at a great price!
Curtis Ray says
More bikes coming in the future. These bikes are the launch bikes, we will have more to satisfy everyones taste including larger models in the future. Stay tuned and see some really cool and unique designs!!! Thank you everyone for your interest and feedback! We are more than happy to take all critique whether good or bad. We want to provide great bikes and a great price!
Tin Man 2 says
Why does China hold so much U.S. debt? Because buyers are pooring our money into the Chinese economy.DUH. We will run out of Wealth along time before China runs out of Workers. Is this that hard to understand, We are sending China the money to buy up our Future!!
joe says
Only when the Chinese manufacturers set up reliable long term dealerships with comprehensive, reliable parts backup will they succeed. Unfortunatly a lot of people have been burned by flybynight importers who sold on ebay or from opperations that closed after a couple of months.The same happened with the first lot of Chinese plant and equipment imports, it was rubbish with no parts backup or service , and lots of people got burnt. Now they are making some quality products with established dealerhips, but i’ts going to take a while to convince people to buy them. It will happen eventuly,and the quality will keep on improving.
meatspin says
i like that the bikes seem to have a kickstart. Thats a real “working man’s” bobbin right there.
Best of Luck Scott
David/cigarrz says
Tin Man 2
The debt the Chinese hold are US treasury debt in the form of bonds. Every time our bankrupt government has needed money they sell bonds to cover their debt. The only problem is the rest of the world for the first time doesn’t believe we are good for the loan. In other words they don’t want to buy our debt till we make a few payments and we cant. So now the government is trying to print it’s way out of debt and each dollar is getting cheaper and cheaper. Actually look at what happened to GM because it is being repeated in the government. Hell we cant even repay Brazil and Costa Rica let alone the Chinese and Japanese.
CCW says
Hello again. We appreciate all the comments but want to mention more about the Because, I have about as much leverage with politics as any workin joe does, and this just about none.
We have a 250cc V-Twin (ready) 400cc triple (in development), a 500cc single (almost there), and a 650cc (no comment) all in the works. It all comes down to being legal. EPA/CARB takes time and costs $$$$$$. Every new motor needs new EPA/CARB certification….. Time and Money…….
The 250cc is great because of it is light weight, has loads of torque, will run the bike up to about 85, and is air-cooled (no ugly radiator or hoses).
I purposely picked the motors because they harkened back to a simpler time. When BSA ran air cooled singles and Triumphs ran air cooled twins. The difference is we can now produce the same horsepower from a 250cc as they used to be able to produce from a 500cc motor.
Anyhow, lets leave the political debate behind us. 🙂 We got into this because we saw a place in the market for our vision. When none of my friends in Cleveland could afford a new bike, I knew something was wrong. We are bringing back the fun, economical, wind in the hair, feeling good, our there and riding feeling. That is what this is all about. 🙂
velosmartt says
Look at most Harley “Made in USA dammit” bolt on accessories and apparel. The label sez Made in China. Own a Mac, Dell, HP, etc. Made in China. Bringing a production volume product (not single piece boutique stuff) to market in the USA is almost impossible without cheap foreign labor. Is the answer the only quality alternative to the mass market stuff is to buy a boutique bike that begins at $25k. Mule can opine heroic, but can he put his money where his mouth is and produce a sub $5k “All American” motorcycle? It is impressive that CCW invested numerous months in China to establish “the process” to ensure quality. Companies like North Face, Sierra Designs, and Patagonia have been doing the same in China (and ensuring effective fair labor and environmental practices) for over 25 years. It is tremendous that Scott and CCW are attempting something new, innovative, and courageous. Good on ya.
larry says
I had a great job in Detroit area in manufacturing, but due to terrorist attacks of 2001,economy ground to a halt and major purchases ceased. I was let go, and had to take lesser and lesser paying jobs as downward spiral continued. I lost my home, cars and motorcycles (’47 Knucklehead, 250 Suzuki, and a project Honda). End of scenario. By the grace of God, I moved to an area where this “Global economy” has less of an impact, but is continuously economically depressed; hence, fewer cataclysmic occurences, just the complete knowledge that things will never be much better; ie.: fewer ups-and-downs. I am not alone in this. A friend back in the old neighborhood, a former riding partner and victim of similar circumstances recently purchased a “Kit Bike”(funny how kit bike and” Kikker Bobber” have the same initials…) He used to ride Gold Wings. The parts he has had to fab and/or retro-fit to get that thing running are amazing. Bike was purchased from American sources, phone responses from same were less than pleasant when inquiries were made as to absence of parts or quality therein. All I’m saying is that we do what we can. Kudos to Scott Colosimo! I wish you success! If we have to go overseas for bikes/sources, we will. If I ever get “back on my feet” financially, I damn sure will by a new Chinese bike! I can’t afford a $30,000 Harley, nor will I buy a “custom”(crapped-out, trash-laden, over-priced )Sportster I’ll have to strip down and re-build. This is the American Spirit; Where there is a will, there is a way.
MARK 5 says
Take a look at the Chinese,Chang Jiang,CJ 750(looks like a BMW R71)and the FGS-TCS 250 line of motorcycles.Cheap,affordable,reliable. Sorry to say it’s just going to get worse. You look at everything we buy and own, it’s all imported. Nothing is made here anymore.
JR says
OH!!! Do a 400cc triple! Yes yes yes!
400cc air cooled triple, torquey little beast, less than $3k?!?!
Make it a cafe racer. Do it.
James Bowman says
@Jim Flower it saddens me to observe the reality of what you wrote, beauracracy, regulations and taxes are killing what is left of America’s manufacturing which is precious little post NAFTA/GAIT. I hear that sucking sound loud and clear Mr Perot. There is no way we can meet all that is imposed on us anymore. It is not free trade unless all involved are under the same regulations and it’s not even close. Instead of America being a free and soveriegn nation we must abide by international agreements put into law by a bribed congress (they call it lobbying when someone promises them gifts, money and or future employement in prestigeous positions) sorry you get paid to change your vote you and the payee should be in jail for public trust violation period.
We should not have national debt it is bondage to China and others nations, we need to entice companies to return by easing the burden with long term promises so we can unshackal ourselves. I see no financial hope for this country there is little reason for companies to remain here anymore. Listen to Jim Flowers and Cleveland Cycle Werks something has to change soon.
As far as the quality of Chineese goods goes it’s a real crap shoot, I bought a buggy and it was crap and should have been shot hence crap shoot. I used to build computers and the mainland chineese mother boards were garbage I had to replace them all too frequently. I
own a Yamaha xt250cc dual sport and I weigh 200lbs and drive it 25miles one way to work whenever possible, its definitely capable of everything but major highways, I mean 70mph is fine and keeps me from being tempted. 75mpg keeps me from being so strapped by the oil companies. I wish some American company could make one close in price and quality but HD just killed Buell so it doesn’t look too good, everyone doesn’t want an obnoxious loud, overwieght bike that costs $20k, no offence if you do just not my thing. So then I was left with a choice of chineese crap dual sports or for 3x the price a high quality Japaneese bike and made the right choice. A coworker bought the cheepo chineese Roketa and never rides it he has about 150 miles on it, I have almost 7k starting on my second season. He had to assemble his himself has no dealer support, it was geared crazy bad top speed like 35mph with the poor engine screaming for mecey it also weighs about 70lbs more than mine. I hope Cleveland CycleWerks can do better the bikes look good in the pictures, but in person they are probably crude also.
Anyway Amercan manufacturing is virtually over and the good jobs they have provided as well, my children will not enjoy the blessings I have and that is sad, our beaurocrats are mostly a bunch of self serving, out of touch elitist who think you are lucky if they hand back some of the money you work for like they are doing you a favor. They are loyal to themselves only and appear to have no moral compass whatsoever. America is only a shadow of a once great nation living on borrowed time. Thank God it was a sunny beautiful day so that I could for a moment put behind me the sad state of national affairs on my ride to work, and enjoy my little bike that has served me well. Cleveland MCWerks I do not blame you the world now is what it is.
akumabito says
I for one applaud Scott Colosimo’s work! Love the little Heist bobber – the Mutiny sketch looks promising as well! Would love one with, say, a Lifan 250cc V-Twin. Those engines are used on a number of street-legal production bikes in the US and Europe, right? So there should not be any issues with emissions testing. Those little engines look damn sexy as well. Then add a slightly larger fuel tank.. I also like the look of the inverted hand controls of the Chang Jiang 750 bikes: http://www.scooterbob.com/images/DAK_Solo_1.JPG
Oh, hey – you wouldn’t happen to be hiring, no? I’d move to China in a heartbeat.. ;D (Lived in Japan for a year, plus nearly three years in Thailand)
Billy B.Tso says
there is a reason why manufacturing costs more in the US compared with China. Human rights & environment and manufacturing regulations. To be able to meet China’s prices with product made out of the US, would actually be disaster and step backward to a modernised great country. If you have been to the manufacturing areas of China, you would not wish this curse of manufacturing cheap product on any country.
To say I have never seen the sun there in my many years of travel there, and the people there know no better, is only the begining of the problems. If only people were willing to pay more, manufacturing in the US would be possible. You can’t have cheap bikes without cheap labor/manufacturing.
Oengus says
China manufactures and sells millions of motorcycles; over 2 million just for the month of January 2010. Nearly all a sold domestically and nearly all are under 250cc most are under 125cc. They have over 150 at least separate manufactures. They have at least 50 major manufacturing cooperatives.
Anyone with an interest can…and investment capital can OEM off that production.
The engine is 250cc? Or is it actually 223cc is it an OHV or and OHC? How makes the engine? The liability goes away if it made in china? The real manufactures are behind the OEM and it’s them that should be marketing and standing behind the products.
When you buy a motorcycle your not just buying a motorcycle you need parts and service, you actually need really good documentation. Most of the Chinese products are weak on that very weak. Then the prices do not include factory warranties either often they are distributor warranties. That has no QC feed back and often major failures are the customers responsibility, just like a used bike.
You can buy a bike just like these out of a factory for $750.00 you can have it shipped to your door for about that. But it will not come with any documentation, it amazing the number of people who find that challenging finding the specs or the part they may need eventually.
Why should I buy a Misfit? I can get a Galaxy SUV250 sent to my door for much less than $2,500.00?
Why would you need customization the Chinese are like a 200cc-250cc motorcycle candy store nearly all the bikes have the same engines and components. But the different models are endless.
http://www.tradevv.com/chinasuppliers/johnzhou870120_p_ac60e/china-EEC-DOT-EPA-certificated-Galaxy-motorcycle-yamaha-engine-suzuki-kawasaki-and-honda-motorcycle.html
Then you can also buy real nice 200cc Dual Sport that is made in china from these people….and it comes with a 2 year warranty.
http://www.qlinkmotor.com/
The 199cc used on the Qlink XP/XF is made by Jinan Qingqi in china and they also make the engines for Suzuki. http://www.qingqi.com.cn/en/aboutqingqi.aspx
Here is nice image of a Galaxy bike it being marketed by the actual real manufacturer.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/oengus1963/Linked/SUV.jpg
David/cigarrz says
@ billy thanks for the chuckle “If only people were willing to pay more” if only people would pay more taxes, if only everyone would be happy with more unfunded entitlements. Welcome to your utopia but one problem, the gold laying goose is dead.
Mule says
David Cigar, Your answer to all the political problems here in the US is to run with all your purchases and money to China? No Comprendez how that helps the problem here. How long have you worked in this country?
Mule says
I gotta say, this has been quite a debate and very little about it has pertained to the motorcyles that oiginally started it. It’s headed almost completely in the direction of “Why buy a Chinese bike just because it’s sold with the name Cleveland attached to it?”
I’ve been into bikes and owning them since 1968 and they’ve almost all been imports. Hondas, Vespa, CZ, Jawas, Yamahas, Triumphs, Ducati, Huskys, Montesas, KTM, Kawasaki, BSA and others I’ve probably left out. I’ve owned a few Sportsters and a Buell. Would I prefer to buy American? Of course I would. But I don’t like the fact there was only one choice since I got into bikes AND the fact that I can’t stand choppers or “Doodle-Glides” meant I was left with only imports. In motocross, roadracing, flattrack or any type of competition, performance comes first, then price. You get the best thing you can afford. And it certainly isn’t made here.
A lot of people over the years have been anti- Japanese. So most become pro Harley who like the American auto makers, decide what the customers are going to buy and then advertize them to death. The Japanese were a bit different. They were genuinely interested in knowing what Americans wanted and then got so successful supplying us those things that they even built plants in this country that employed Americans.
Will the Chinese build plants here to employ Americans? I doubt it.
I guess what bothers me is that if the USA put all the restrictions on to products that are made everywhere else in the world that they put on products made here and matched the tariffs levied on our products to get into other countries for theirs to come here, the playing field would look considerably different. I’ve sent bikes all over the world and when you try to import something (a bike), into another country there is a HUGE hit! But not coming here. Why is that? The rest of the world is trying to protect the jobs of it’s own peoples. China included. Maybe we should be copying the Asians and worrying about our own people!
I shipped a bike to Japan and a bike to the Netherlands this week. They both had to be in crates made of “Certified, heat-treated wood”. No bugs allowed and with crate certification paperwork included. But you can ship any kind of crap you want into this country. No restrictions on crate materials.
David/cigarrz says
The problem is your just not listening. I work hard in America to keep the five hundred Americans I’m responsible for, working here in America. What saddens me is we have had to turn to China and our partners there for things like casting that we machine. We used to be able to buy them in America but can no longer get good product to our specs, on time and at a cost that would allow us to continue to be competitive in our field. I am sixty years old and have worked for fifty of them right here in America. I have seen our American manufacturing eaten from the inside out by unions. I have seen unconstitutional three and four letter bureaucracies IRS, EPA, OSHA, ad nausiem, destroy American business with laws and taxes that wouldn’t pass muster in legislation. I have watched elected officials act like strung out whores tripping over themselves to provide one more entitlement, payed for by people that show up for work everyday and the companies they work for. We have been competitive at our company, wages are better than union and when you include freedom from thugs and dues, very competitive when you add in production bonus much more than competitive. Until the healthcare debacle we were able to provide excellent insurance, it already looks like that is not going to be possible in the future. Now what is even more troubling is that our time honored American customers can no longer be counted on to fulfill our sales needs as in the past because they also are being destroyed. So we must continue to cultivate business with foreign manufactures for our products and all the uncertainties included with that prospect. So to keep our five hundred Americans working we will continue to do business in China and sell our product in Belarus, Poland, Brazil. You on the other hand may be free to posture with less responsibilities.
Oengus says
Lady bugs used to have one spot on each wing, now they have multiple spots. The lady bugs in china have multiple spots. The ash trees in the midwest are being attacked by emerald ash borers. They usually spray the container with probably DDT? People are getting bikes from china and starting them and getting noxic smoke off the engines.
Even if you were a milionare and built a factory in the US to make small bikes you could only sell as many as people will buy. The actual sales in the US are now at 1999 levels and we begin again…..They say when the sales come back? They say when gas prices rise? Bikes are not alternatives in the US they are toys. For most americans shifting gears is not in the realm of reality. The actual sales of these small bikes is very little of the market. All the big four make small bikes and only market very few in the US, because the demand is not high. The concess on bike is “death machine”, to anyone other than a rider of one. In part thats true, people get carried away and loose control all the time. Grandmother ride scooters in china, do not hold your breath waiting for that trend in the US.
Bike sales do not go up with gas prices, they are primarly luxury items and actually the realtionship is inverse. The peak in sales was in 2005 and the peak in oil 2008, the crash in bike sales 2009. As people tighten the belts they stop buying toys, the number of people that bought alternatives are not significant. Buying the bike to go to work? Sure and is the or was the parking lot filled with them? NO! If the bike saves money then hard times would drive sales….look we are in hard times and they are in the tank. People are not putting the SUV in the garage and dropping the insurance and taking to two wheels they are selling the garage trophies to pay the bills. The market is flooded, it buyers market.
Billy B.Tso says
David/cigarrz responsible for 500 people…a lot of babble to basically say, you look elsewhere to make more money and a cheaper product….
In reality, it’s the “cosco/walmart” effect….sell more units cheaper….waving your flag in your comments doesn’t make your point valid, it only cheapens it.
I would be happy to pay more for an american made product…and i certainly don’t have a golden goose, far from that. Myself I understand the benefit of USA made, more so than a e.g. 30% reduction in price. I won’t buy a product based on it being the cheapest, biggest mistake – seen many burnt with thier purchases that way.
Understand big business needs to show % profit increases at the end of each year, but at what long term cost….
tom says
Why can’t it be built in the USA? HDI had an existing factory infrastructure to piggyback and built about the least expensive street motorcycle possible in America (their Blast). They never sold more than a few thousand a year, with many of those going to training range use. I’d say the American motorcycling community already voted that the cost/benefit just wasn’t there.
nortley says
It finally came to me what the misfit reminds me of – the Sears rebadged bikes of the 60s. This is good in my eye. Assuming these machines get in past the red tape, I’d sure want a warranty, parts, and service structure in place before I bought one. This doesn’t necessarily mean dealers. Sellers could be most any retailer, like Sears did once or like Best Buy now sells Brammos. Offer service through contractors, and have a factory parts and Q&A website for the owner who does his own work. And, make mine the triple.
Jim Flower says
Mr. Kneeslider,
I would like to thank you for allowing this discussion to continue. It seems that a lot needs to be said about the status of American manufacturing, and this enterprise article has struck a nerve. We Americans are in shock about what to do next. That was why I finally put together a website last year, as an attempt to reach the market that I suppose some would call “boutique”. Times are spare and we all feel it.
A very good debate here. I do appreciate the passions of opposing realities, and I think we can agree that we are on shifting sands. Good luck to us all, and that includes Cleveland Cycle.
Jim
akatsuki says
The real shame is that he couldn’t go to a less repressive regime (India, SE Asia, maybe Taiwan althought that is getting more expensive).
Sid says
It is not just about China’s lower standards. It’s also about this country’s exponentially inflated standards. 1 example: The cost of healthcare gets past around until only a relative few profit from it.
CEO salaries & corporate inefficiencies (e.g. bloated # of white collar jobs) should be included in the inflated, somewhat artificial “standard” we all seem to be thinking is right. We’ve been living a facade from Wall St. to many of our cities and towns.
7 figure salaries to do what?
6 figure salaries to do what?
todd says
Hey Billy B.Tso, I guess you won’t be buying any motorcycles then. There are currently NO 100% USA made motorcycles. With as many people we have reading these posts can any of them say they work for a US manufacturer that manufactures motorcycle parts? I’m not saying “assembling”, I’m saying you buy your steel in Pittsburgh and hammer out your parts on a US made forge, send it down the street for chrome. You buy your billets from Washington, turn them in your US made mill, assemble US built bearings on it. Buy your IC’s that are made in California and solder them to the US built board installing it in your US made extruded/laser-cut housing…
Someone please name any commodity with more than one moving part that is entirely made in the USA?
If it wasn’t for foreign industries there would be no domestic industries. No one would be able to get to work because even a US made bicycle would cost $10,000, they would have to rely on their neighbor’s rooster to get them up in the morning and couldn’t even shave since there aren’t even any US made straight blade razors.
If we all of a sudden put a tariff on every import everyone would go out of business. Besides, that would be unconstitutional now. Wouldn’t it? If no one could afford to sell bikes or build them because all of their parts just doubled how long would they be able to stay in business while they looked around for a company that made the parts to their specification and price range?
This is just how it is and there is no going back.
-todd
David/cigarrz says
@Todd
I’m a cheap flag waver for selling the highest quality components in our field to the largest heavy equipment manufacturers in America and the world. I cant wait to find out what you are. There is a lesson here, don’t read the manifesto backwards and then try to work it into conversation.
akumabito says
“Made in China” = Crap is a pretty nonsensical idea anyhow. It’s not like Chinese companies do not have access to quality materials, a skilled workforce and precision tools and machinery. To wit; just look at all the electronics in your home that have served you well for years. Regardless of the brand, I bet there ain’t a whole lot that don’t have a “Made in China” tag on at least some of its components.
It’s all about quality control, yes. Chinese products can be any bit as good as a product produced in the US or EU. The reason why there’s so much cheap and sh*tty stuff out there is simple; there is a huge market for it. Domestic at first, or intended for other less-wealthy nations where people simply can not afford anything better – but who can blame them for attempting to sell the same stuff (at inflated prices perhaps) to other markets as well? And hey, it’s working, because we’re buying it!
It seems to me that CCW is doing exactly the same as, say, Dell or Sony; make use of the cheaper labor in China, while maintaining quality control at Western levels. Hey, I am sure CCW (again, like so many companies producing in China) is actually doing the Chinese workers a favor; their workers probably earn a better pay and have better working conditions than workers doing similar work in factories intended primarily for the domestic market.
Marvin says
Just a quick reminder that the US does not own the internets, plenty of us here outside the US like the bikes and don’t give a fig whether the bikes are made in the US. After all Hardly Decent does not have the best reputation when in comes to reliability or customer service. I hope CMW makes a quality product at a great price and it looks like they are on the right track with a good range of bikes at an attractive price point. The only fly in the ointment is that I don’t think budget bike buyers buy new! The massive depreciation when you first roll a bike outside a shop just puts off most practical bikers. The reason they factories don’t build the bikes we would like is that there is more money to be made in building the bikes that the trade-in guys want.
people who own a bike for two years then trade it in are the buyers for new bikes, the factories would have to be mad to address concerns such as home maintenance, longevity and parts as new buyers don’t value this at all. The main problem here is from a personal perspective, I would love one of these bikes when they have reduced in value by being two years old.
Thom says
Alright, I said my piece about the whole America vs. China deal, but I kind of lost my view on the bikes. I’ve been riding motorcycles for around 15 years now, and I actually plan on buying a 250cc motorcycle as my next bike. There is nothing inadequate at all about a 250, and anyone who says otherwise is just a squid. That said, I’m buying a Hyosung GT250R, because it fits me physically, and I want a sportbike, not a standard or a cruiser. Oh, and I weigh 220lbs, as well, and I’M happy with a 250. The Heist looks a lot like the Kikker5150 Hardknock, which sells RIGHT now for $3,000, and is selling quite well. So, the market is there for a small-displacement bobber. If the quality is as good as they say, I’d be interested myself- if they made a sportbike.
CCW says
Hello again to address some of the concerns.
1. We have distributors setup who will have all parts in stock
2. We have a 1-800 # established as required by EPA.
3. Our distributors will have customer service reps to help our customers.
Bikes are beginning to ship to the US in large numbers. We have done all EPA and Carb testing in Texas. All of our components are DOT approved. This is our business, and we are professionals.
Parts will be available state side. We are working with respected distributors who care about customer support. We are in this for the long run, many, many years. We have seen where others have failed and are committed to doing better. We care about quality and have only partnered with quality driven companies. We love to ride, and will continue to develop cool bikes that are well priced at a good price.
My own personal thoughts:
Either you change with the times or the times pass you by. My generation of riders are completely different then guys in their 40’s-60’s. We are BMXer, SK8rs, punks old farts love to hate, and we are starting to run this country, closed minds will not stop this. America is about innovation, pushing forward, and never letting NO stop you, my motto is “I am American nothing is Impossible” Nothing is impossible in deed!
Nicolas says
Interesting also is the fact that the previous post about the Indian bikes didn’t raise that much cheap nationalism flags (no offense to McDeeb, their bikes are cool) … I’m going regularly to both India and China for business, let me tell you that China is heaven compared to India …
1940’s english-designed indian-built Royal Enfield are cool, but modern chinese is crap. Is that the lesson, here ?
dan4556 says
Nice styling, but have you ever ridden an engine from a Chinese company? I have. Absolutely unacceptable. Not an option, at any price. The transmissions are useless.
todd says
Interesting that a country can produce millions upon millions of motorcycles every year with millions upon millions of customers around the world and because one guy on a web site in the USA says he had problems with his we should reject them all.
That’s kind of like saying all Harleys are junk because the one you had would blow head gaskets on a regular basis.
I’ll reserve judgment.
-todd
Chris says
Did Cleveland even consider the USA for manufacturing, or did the typical beancounter mentality kick in and automatically say it’s too expensive in the US. Well, was the Southern US even considered. Look at the engineering talent and manufacturing capability of the Southern States where all the “profitable” automotive companies have engineering and factories, along with a support group of talented industrial vendors capable of handling a light weight motorcycle. The Rust Belt has to get rid of the misconception of the south as a bunch of lazy cottonpickers. We also have to rid ourselves that it is always cheaper in China. Some paradigm have to be broken, and after it’s all said and done, going to China might not be a bargain. Henry Ford was right on the mark in making cars his employees could buy, and vendors could buy, and etc, etc…
CCW says
We considered many options, including the south. We will continue to look at the US for production as we build our credibility as a company, possibly American business will welcome us instead of shun us in the future. There are only 4 of us, we are a small company, and there are no bean counters, we are just trying to manufacture cool, quality bikes that people can afford, it is actually quite simple. 🙂
Chris says
Mule, you sound like you don’t like capitalism.
Slacker says
I work for an industrial automation company, and sadly I see this kind of thing happening every day. Manufacturing in the US is just too expensive, and at the end of the day it boils down to labor costs (and materials to some extent.) We’ve got people being paid $20-$30 an hour to do unskilled labor, like screwing a couple bolts on to a part on an assembly line. Yes, everyone deserves to make a living… but ideally that living should be commensurate with their skill set. Not because they don’t deserve more, but because when you pay somebody an exorbitant wage to do something literally anybody can do, you’re setting them up for trouble in the future. When they lose that high paying factory job, they can’t afford the lifestyle that they’ve grown accustomed to because they don’t have the skills or experience to find a job that pays them a similar wage. It’s dangerous.
So what’s happening now is that the only way to keep manufacturing in the US is to automate, which still results in the jobs being lost. At least it helps with the trade deficit and keeps the money in US hands, but we’re losing jobs wholesale right now. Unless we stop being greedy, there’s no way to get them back.
I, for one, know from firsthand experience that not everything that comes from China is of poor build quality. If the manufacturing is being sourced by a western country, and they put their own personnel in place in the factory to oversee production and quality control, they will get exactly what they want. It sounds like this is exactly what CCW did, and so I’m sure that these bikes are probably as good as they would be if they were built anywhere else. In which case, overall quality will largely rest on the design. Of course, when the inevitable clones of these bikes pop up, people won’t be able to distinguish them from the originals. Somebody will copy the tooling, and build it with inferior alloys, or crappier welding. You learn really quick over there that just because two bikes look exactly the same, the one that costs half is much is not as good as the original. And CCW’s reputation will suffer because of that.
Jon says
I would certainly be interested in buying the Misfit.I’m 56 years old and have ridden for almost 50 years and owned 25 motorcycles in that time. I have rediscovered the fun of riding smaller motorcycles. Love the looks and concept of the Misfit. It is fun riding a smaller, lower powered motorcyle on some nice twisty backroads. With just a bit of planning, I find I can get about anywhere I want to go via these backroads. A 250cc thumper should be getting somewhere between 60 and 90 miles per gallon too.
So-how does one go about buying one of these in, say, Washington State?
Jon
CCW says
Jon, if you call my distributor PIT Motors LTD. I am sure they will be able to put you in touch with a dealer close to you. Tel: 516.605.1860 Or you can always shoot them an email brett@pitmotorsltd.com
Peace
Kerlyn says
Your story is really an inspiration…
kneeslider says
A few individuals who have a problem of some sort with Cleveland Cyclewerks mistakenly thought The Kneeslider was the place to air their grievances. In this instance, as in every similar instance, customers, competitors and company personnel should deal with each other directly and resolve their differences privately. Thanks.