A news item just crossed our desk about Chinese motorcycle exports. Chinese officials were quoted as saying they intended to rectify the disordered export market resulting in low profits for the Chinese motorcycle companies. You need to remember, and as the news item reminds us, this “disordered” market has been the number one exporter of motorcycles worldwide for five years in a row. They exported 7 million motorcycles last year alone. Since the Chinese consider motorcycles to be one of their important export commodities, think about what extra effort on their part to improve the situation will mean to other motorcycle companies around the globe.
Chinese motorcycles tend to be smaller displacement models found in heavy use in countries throughout Asia, but as we’ve noted before, they’re expanding into larger displacement motorcycles, as well.
There have been complaints about the quality of the Chinese products but at the sometimes unbelievably low prices they are selling at, many will ignore quality and buy one anyway. With high production and export, it is inevitable that quality will improve over time and once established in various markets, the higher quality models will have a base to build upon.
One troublesome issue is the repeated appearance of knock offs, models built to be almost identical to well known and established brands. The lawsuit under way between Yamaha and Yamoto is one example, the continuous stream of Blata pocketbike copies is another. If China plays by the rules and actually designs and builds its own motorcycles, everyone will just have to adjust to the new competition, but if counterfeit copies are what China considers to be legitimate exports, we have another issue entirely and I would hope vigorous customs enforcement would shut down this part of their export trade.
Related stories:
Counterfeit motorcycles seized at Milan
Blata fights Chinese copies
Knockoff Motorcycles and Parts
hoyt says
thanks for keeping us up to date on the copyright & patent infringements.
It is staggering that the biggest “market” doesn’t understand what it means to play by the rules. The Chinese want to play in the capital market game but not by the rules. Yet, there are companies & consumers that continue to buy, sell, & distribute Chinese products.
On a separate but somewhat tangent note — how do the aftermarket V-twin engine builders get away with building what are essentially H-D copies ? Are they modifying the engines enough to classify their product as different and not a copy of an H-D engine? I ask because there are other engines beside an H-D motor that should be made on the aftermarket besides the 45-degree V-twin.
todd says
in reply to the HD V-twin infringement: Harley was not the first brand to build a 45 degree V-twin. There was “prior art” and Harley is not able to put a patent or even a copyright on that configuration. They’ve gotten around this a little by attempting to copyright the “potato-potato” sound but I don’t know how successful that has been in litigation. If another company were to build a motor or bike with a badge very similar to the H-D logo or in any other way mislead the buyer into believing it was a “genuine motor company product” only then would there be infringement.
I like the idea of Chinese import bikes. Most major and minor components on most manufacturers vehicles and consumer products are made in china, korea, or where ever. The only reason the existing quality of chinese branded items is low is because that is what the market will accept. Do you think China would be exporting 7 million motorcycles a year if the quality (and hence price) was higher?
The majority of people buy inferior product basing decisions on price first. Why do you think so many people bought japanese bikes in the ’60’s – ’80’s when you could buy a BMW? I think I read somewhere that the BMW R75 cost twice that of the CB750. Now look at BMW, they have reduced build quality over the years to be more competitive with japanese bikes.
-todd
hoyt says
I wasn’t merely talking about a 45-degree v-twin configuration as it pertains to the degree of separation between cylinders. Some of the aftermarket engines appear to be exact copies from the outside (are they duplicates of an H-D motor on the inside, too?).
Maybe the difference in capacity is enough to differentiate them from copying H-D, but I would have thought the internal design would have to be different besides just capacity.
On the Chinese topic….BMW’s build quality has been reduced? Were the Japanese bikes that buried the Brit bikes of equal or less caliber than the Chinese bikes? I don’t think so on both accounts
greg howard says
The chinese have created a CDI fours stroke engine that seems to be of good quality. Dou you know of web sites or could you tell me about the quality of the engines the engines are 150cc and 200 cc. thanks G Howard
Scott says
I’m happy to see the Chinese swarming the market with their bikes. Mostly cause I think the rising cost of motorcycles is insane! I can recall my first New bike a “1988 V45 Magna” and I paid $3,200. cash after working my butt off all summer.
I’m not fond of Chinese quality and wouldn’t get one for a while, till they can learn to pay more attention to quality. Really though, can you blame the workers for not caring much in a Communist country that forces you to work and for pennies an hour, while making big money for the Government giant that runs your life and keeps you poor? I met a man over there who works in a company that makes parts for the “Defiant 250cc” (a knock off of the Virago 250). He doesn’t like his job, or life and dreams of coming to the USA. (The Government gave him a choice between being a tourist guide or plant worker, but he got no other options and no say about his pay rate. I think it was 37 USA cents/ hour.) I have to feel for those people and I wonder, if I purchased a Chinese bike, am I kinda helping to harm them? That right there really makes me more likely to buy a “build your own” kit from the USA. Thanks, Scott
I just discovered this site and I could spend weeks swimming through all this content and never get bored.
Ron Stynes says
I think the engines which Hoyt is reffering to are the 250cc Lifan engines which are actually nothing like the antique HD units as they are overhead cam and blueprinted from the original Yamaha “Virago”. The engine is well proven and churns out a lot of power for its size.
Prester John says
No, he’s talking about engines like the S&S and RevTech, built in the USA and look to be reverse engineered HD units.
Tom
Steve says
Is there a Chinese motorcycle showroom that sells these?
I would like to see one one of these bikes.
I live in LA.
Think it would be a good business to open… selling China bikes?
Nick says
On the subject of build quality of Chinese m/c engine copies, I have just finished repairing a 125cc Honda twin look-alike. Externally, the engine is almost identical, but a quick look inside reveals all sorts of cost-cutting horrors !
Tinfoil head gasket, missing o-rings, cheap camchain and inferior clutchplates – as a result, the engine is unlikely to see more than 5000 miles before self-destruction/major overhaul. Then of course, you will find that genuine Honda gaskets, camchains etc will NOT fit, and replacement parts that WILL fit are unobtainable ! So unless you are a skilled engineer, who is happy to fabricate parts, I would stay well away from these copies !
Tom says
Harley does have a patent on the engine, it’s on the marrow angle of the cylinders and the “sound” created by the v angle and common crank. They actually have a patent on the noise the dam thing makes 😀 Thats why a 45 degree V Twin sounds so much different than the massey ferguson err I mean Harley.
Dennis L says
Greg Howard asked about a source for 150cc-200cc engines. Lifan sells a lot of replacement engines. Quite solid, if not overly high tech. Hooper Imports sells them. Link to 2 twin 250cc.
http://www.hooperimports.com/dept.asp?dept_id=05
Also look at the others in the menu link for engines.
I have a 200cc single that is very solid.
Check ebay too.
Brian S says
I almost bought a “honda defiant” on ebay today. But before I did, I started snooping arount to see if I could find some information about the Honda Defiant.
Finally, I called my local Honda dealer to see if anyone there had ever heard of a Honda Defiant. No such luck. Honda doesn’t make a defiant… Sooo, needless to say I will not be buying a defiant. But I did find more info here on this site about the defiant than any other site that I’ve visited. Thanks
John K says
Harley does not hold a trademark on the sound of its exhaust, nor does it hold a patent on the 45-degree V-twin. Although Harley holds trademarks that it enforces vigorously, and holds other patents that it enforces as well, it ceased efforts to trademark the sound of a “V-Twin, common crankpin motorcycle engine.”
If anyone can provide evidence that Harley holds the sound trademark or a patent on a 45-degree V-twin engine, please do so.
Peterfen says
I bought a Loncin 125cc off road bike, (very chinese), towards the end of last year. I have to be honest and say that it has been a journey. At the 1000 Km warranty service it was discovered that there was a problem with the cylinder and it would have to be replaced. (At the time I didn’t ask what it was and now they can’t remember). No 125 parts were in stock here in Cape Town, (the tip of africa but surprisingly first world. No, lions don’t walk in the street at night) so they suggested replacing cylinder, piston & crank to 200cc (at no charge under warranty). Brilliant! First problem was the exhaust having to much back pressure which has been solved in the short term by removing the last section of the baffle pipe. (A noticable improvement but noisy). The rear wheel sprocket had to then be changed for R500 (+/- $72). I can comfortably do 100Km/h and push it to 120Km/h. Quality is a big issue every day. Front light bulb needs to be replaced, clutch has started slipping like there’s no tomorrow and last night the electric starter packed up, (I suspect crappy starter switch). All I can say is thank goodness I am a practical D.I.Y type as that is the ONLY person who should be allowed to buy Chinese bikes!! I am enjoying the frontiersman like challange of owning this dodgy technology & good luck to all the future “chinese” buyers
John S says
I own and use a lifan 250cc every day. I Payed 1800.00 for it 2 yrs ago. It dont like cold weather,but once is warm its ok. It gets great gas milage. Tires it comes with are cheap. I put it together. As of yet I havent seen anything real wrong yet. I put 1700 miles on it and at this point Yes I would buy another one. If you are looking to purchase a bike from china purchase it from a large china Co. and but the way Parts are all over the puter John
Cannon says
I think the point is that you never know what you’re going to get when you buy a Chinese motorcycle. I bought 2 for my boys a while back. Although the 2 bikes were identical one was very reliable and never had a problem (except for the usual rotting rubber hoses and tubes, and poor suspension) while the other was a constant headache. I agree that Chinese motorcycles have come a long way and the fact that they are a fraction of the cost of Japanese motorcycles makes them a tempting alternative (especially for a starter bike). I was recently looking at a Chinese made 250cc dirt bike that looked really good on paper. I was seriously considering ordering one until a got a closer look. This was a brand new bike on the showroom floor and the front fork seals were already leaking on the inverted forks. The spring pre-load on the front forks was so soft that half the travel was gone under its own weight. The rear spring was strong but there was no rebound, so it bounced up and down like a pogo stick. The Chinese would be well advised to get blueprints for suspension components. The Chinese seem to be well adept at copying the external appearance of existing technology, but solely lacking when it comes to functionality. I bought a 4-stroke Chinese bike that was fitted with an expansion chamber.?%$#! Apparently they saw 2-stroke dirt bikes with chambers so they copied it without knowing its particular purpose. This is why you don’t see serious motorcycle enthusiasts riding Chinese motorcycles, and why you probably won’t see a Chinese made motorcycle winning any motorcycle races – at least in our life times.