Both, Buell riders and a potential investment group are asking Harley Davidson to at least sell the brand rather than shut it down completely. Walworth County officials are trying to get a group of buyers together, contacting a group in Chicago and another in Minneapolis. They have received no reply from Erik Buell to their offer to arrange such a deal, so he may not even be interested, but it’s an option.
Buell riders are also circulating letters urging Harley to reconsider the shutdown and likewise, are asking them to sell the company if they have no interest in continuing the brand themselves.
Bob Klein, Harley’s director of corporate communications, reiterated that Harley is “discontinuing the Buell product line rather than selling the business because of how deeply integrated Buell is into our business systems and distribution network.”
The statement by Klein is unfortunate, Harley Davidson seems to indicate they could not run Buell in a profitable manner and no one else should be given the opportunity to try. The “deeply integrated” argument sounds hollow because the new owners can worry about getting it running, setting up their own suppliers and distribution, Harley just needs to let go.
The business case from Harley Davidson is pretty clear, Buell is losing money so shut it down. What is hard to understand is their refusal to sell it to another group that may be more passionate about the brand and willing to do what it takes to make it a success. There is no indication that the decision was made in anything other than a sincere effort to save Harley from further losses, but to bury the brand rather than sell it seems short sighted at best.
UPDATE: This just in:
Erik Buell and his band The Thunderbolts will be playing this Saturday:
The Thunderbolts
10/24/2009 9:00 PM at Dry Dock Saloon & Shipwreck
27045 W Grass Lake Rd, Antioch, Illinois 60002
Link: JS Online
Link: JS Onlline
Related: Buell to be Discontinued
jw says
Paul,
I was going to send Harley and email with some general comments and request, one regarding Buell. On the contact us page, the site states, “unable to receive email at this time,” and gives a written address. It has other email links to other divisions of Harley. Harely, the largest American motorcycle company,…unable to receive email!!
To bury another company in this manner seems somewhat analogous to a Mircrosoft tactic. Hopefully the consumers will respond accordingly.
Phoebe says
I read somewhere that there was talk of Yamaha being interested in buying Buell as well. That would be pretty awesome, imo. Imagine an MT03-powered new Blast!
Stjohn says
Apparently, part of Harley-Davidson’s ‘core brand’ is being the only mainstream American motorcycle manufacturer. I’d guess it’s also partially to protect their patents, the innovative stuff Buell has come up with over the years, before they can figure out a lucrative way to sell them off or license them. I’d love to see Buell rise from the ashes somehow, and I’d hate to see Erik languishing under a prolonged contract with the Motor Company where he can’t do much of anything related to designing or building motorcycles, but maybe he wants it that way, who knows?
Scott says
“Deeply integrated” … Let him list the assets he wants, put a price on them, end of story. If the fool and his investor’s money are soon parted, what skin is it off Harley’s nose?
Credible rumor has it that Harley won’t even allow him to talk to Walworth county . . . or anyone.
I thought Harley believed in freedom and America, but they’re afraid to let a little company in East Troy continue to make motorcycles.
Bull****!!! We need to call Bull***** to Harley’s face and make them tell us the truth.
We need to stand up for our rights. We can’t allow Harley to lock this brand away until it dies just because they’re afraid of competition. If they don’t want to sell him the Harley engine, he can just use the Rotax. He can market and distribute the bikes himself without all teh “integration” and he’ll do a better job than the fools at Harley who created that last Buell ad compaign that didn’t seem to even have a clue who Buell riders are.
Free Erik Buell!!
Long Live Buell!!!
Man up Harley! Let the people of East Troy continue to make motorcycles on their own dime.
Jim says
HD is up to its elbows in alligators, so it wants to drain the swamp. Selling Buell to another entity would only keep feeding the gators (more competition).
scritch says
Buell continuing under Yamaha (or just about any other motorcycle manufacturer) ownership would probably not fly. It might retain some kind of small presence, but the Buell brand is inextricably linked to its powerplant brand, Harley Davidson. Bimota might be a good example, has used several engine brands, and has never been a major presence in the market.
I would rather see Buell taken over by an independent investment group whose members are intensely interested in producing HD-powered sport bikes. If HD isn’t willing to play along, there are scads of aftermarket engine builders who start with the basic HD engines, modified and improved greatly, who could provide prime movers. Although I don’t follow the HD market and aftermarket closely, it is almost impossible to not notice the vast amount of aftermarket parts. Just as with VW Beetles, I’d bet you could build complete engines that appear to be made by HD, but are completely aftermarket (and are far sportier). This way, Buell could continue as a narrow-V-twin-powered sport brand, but not be beholden to the Harley Davidson bean counters.
Scott says
Paul, I BEG you to keep up this fight. I’ve spoken with people who know some things and, while they have been very vague and haven’t said anything specific, the clear hint they gave me was that Erik would LOVE to talk to Walworth county and continue making motorcycles, but, as you seem to be beginning to suspect, Harley is afraid of that.
Please, please, please keep pushing this issue. Ask Harley if YOU can speak to Erik and see what they say . . . and when they tell you they won’t let you talk to him . . . or when they only let him send you a written reply or tightly restricted interview, tell the world what you’re seeing.
Tell the WORLD.
Help us Paul Crowe Kneeslider, you’re our only hope.
The Empire has its death-star pointed squarely at Buell.
kwj says
I don’t think the Buell represents direct competition to Harley. As far as I can see the two have very different customers and if Buell’s customers can’t buy a Buell they’ll buy a different naked sportbike not a Harley. I have to agree that it probly has a lot to do with the patents that Harley owns related to those bikes. A Buell wouldn’t be the same without perimeter brakes and fuel in the frame. Licensing those patents (and probly a bunch that I’m not even aware of that would be required to build the bikes as they are) would probly be messy and expensive for any company who wanted to buy Buell.
David says
Hi Paul, maybe you could make a group in Facebook or maybe to collect signs in a site in the way of http://www.thepetitionsite.com/ os something similar.
I think it would be very nice to find a way to allow Erik Buell fans to show to the world (ant to show it also to Harley managers) that they want the brand to continue in some way.
Rickie_D says
What I think is that Harley is not selling Buell because there would be nothing much to sell if they retain the intellectual property they plan to use for future harly branded products.
For example: a “Harley(Buell)†Rotax powered “VRod or a bagger using a variant of the Fuel in frame concept.
So, what would be left to sell; the name?
Scott says
Rickie, I thought that was likely also, but from what I’ve heard since then that is absolutely not going to happen.
Frank West says
The combination of Buell chassis and Rotax engine surely have little to do with Harley as such and could be relocated to a low overhead facility and sold direct over the internet (long overdue marketing strategy) – the only problem is the Rotax engine would need to be radically detuned to allow for some svelte styling and dumping of the various oil and water-cooled radiators for just a small single radiator – a huge saving in weight and complexity resulting as well.
Suspect that Harley want to keep Buell’s engineering abilities for their own projects, most notably the need for radical weight reduction across their whole range.
bob says
As Harley shuts down Buell, the Walworth county facility will undoubtably go on the market. What isn’t clear is whether Harley has bound its employees, and/or Eric Buell, in any kind of non-compete contract. If so, it would seem that most of these efforts are doomed in the short term. In the long term, there are all kinds of possibilities. It’s kind of a shame that Eric Buell tied his name to the brand that was sold to Harley. Thats a kind of business decision that bites people badly (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Fender for a similar story).
If the county can acquire and preserve the Buell facility until the non-compete contracts are voided, then it’s a prime setup for a scenario similar to what happened when Gibson Guitar moved its main production facilities from Kalamazoo to Nashville: a second generation of luthiers bought the Kalamazoo facility, called it Heritage Guitars, and began making guitars in the same tradition as the original Gibson archtops. I own one and it represents a fantastic piece of craftsmanship.
There’s a few things that the Buell/Harley combination didn’t hit right, price and styling among them. But they obviously hit a nerve: I just got back from a European vacation and was surprised at the number of Buell’s I saw in southern France and Italy: almost the equivalent number to Harleys (but of course, that was a very limited and subjective sampling). In fact, I saw more Buell’s than Ducatis (which REALLY surprised me — I guess they’re shipping most of them to California and the east coast).
At the same time, good ideas don’t die, they morph into new products and brands that manage to hold on to useful innovation and discard the stuff that didn’t quite work. I think there’s a lot of room left for a sporting American twin (weighing under 400 lbs, producing more than 100 hp, hitting a least 150 mph, handles well on mountain twisties, and looking like something you’ll want to keep in your garage for more than 5 years). I hope I’ll be able to purchase a new one when I’m ready to trade in my current bike.
Eric says
Buell should get some capital, and re-open their doors.
They should put that nice Rotax engine into bikes that fit real people – not just teen-agers or the super-flexible skinny crowd. I’m 6’1″ ~220 and frankly find the contortions of a Buell unacceptable.
They should also put that sweet engine into a performance cruiser – and give the dreaded V-Rod some competition.
I’m sure this is all a moot point as the Harley legal team has probably obviated any possibility of that actually happening.
Oh well, I wish Buell, all his team all the best of luck in the future.
E-
tony says
I wouldn’t cry if Harley went down or at least had a big shakedown. Overpriced, arrogant, overly reliant on brand management.
To me, the Buell decision is a strong indicator of the type of people running the joint.
Sid says
Its news like this that stokes the determination of others. (Victory – go for it!)
HD – one way or another, you will not win this battle in a capitalist market.
You remember your courtroom loss when trying to patent a single crankpin sound, right?
Any patent attorneys reading the ‘Slider?
Would another option be to modify some of the Buell concepts slightly enough (but legitimately enough) to be free of any patent infringement? Fuel in the frame is not new and it doesn’t seem like there is one and only one way to do it. Other examples: underslung mufflers come from many OEMs now, S&S have managed to manufacture engines without patent infringement.
—
Bob – I witnessed the same thing 4 years ago in northern Italy. In Cortina a group of 12 Buells were staying at a nearby hotel. Enough Buells were seen elsewhere that I finally stopped the 30-something Italian and asked him about it.
Adam says
I’m not entirely sure we can conclude that Buell was actually losing money. In the interviews with the H-D PR and external Relations people, there are several comments that state or strongly imply that H-D didn’t calculate if they’d be saving or spending money by closing down Buell.
I would like to see Buell continue making bikes, as I like the idea of an American-designed and built sport bike (I own an XB12 STT). Drop the Harley engine, use a Rotax or other power plant (Victory, maybe?) and keep innovating. That said, I don’t think it’ll happen. H-D seems bull-headed enough to keep a tight grip on everything they own or control (including who Erik Buell is allowed to talk to), and that means they’re probably going to sit on the Buell brand and hold on to Erik until they either go bankrupt, or the economy improves enough that their finance arm’s mismanagement becomes less problematic.
hoyt says
…at which time thousands of people will not forget this bullshit and not buy HD. This story can be revived to remind buyers. HD would have to market one helluva bike to make buyers choose over the already steep competition.
SteveD says
HD holds many of the patents that are basic to the Buell bikes. An independent Buell could pay HD royalties for the use of these features. HD also holds the design rights to the Rotax engine. Buell would have to pay to use this as well. Of course, it’s possbile that HD will use many of these features themselves on future bikes. HD will not just give these away because that’s not how business works.
mxs says
Many people don’t seem to get it. There’s no Buell company. There’s a brand Buell owned only and only by HD. Why am I not surprised that Eric B. is not replying to people who are interested?? Not difficult to understand.
mxs says
@ SteveD
Do you know what patents are those mentioned by you?
Hughlysses says
“Of course, it’s possible that HD will use many of these features themselves on future bikes. ”
It’s perfectly reasonable for HD to expect payment for patents to which they hold the rights, but I can’t EVER imagine them applying fuel-in-frame, ZTL brakes, underslung exhausts, or most other Buell-developed patents to a Harley. This is the same company that, according to Willie G, kept a fake “points cover” on the newly revised Sportster engine a few years back because it was “traditional” and what customers expected.
Jake says
Tony/Adam, I agree, well put. I wouldn’t mind if their arrogant, under engineered, repetitive, overpriced company gets a big slap in the face along with a reality check. I own 2 Buells and have never gotten ANY support from Harley. Due to the lack of support, I haven’t even walked into Harley shop/dealership in over 3 years. Last time I did, they refused to order brake pads for my XB because “it’s not really a Harley”. I say to Harley, if you don’t want to support or be associated with Buell, sell it and separate yourself from it…totally. Don’t hold on to it like a stubborn toddler because of your mismanagement of the Buell brand. Let someone who is passionate and dedicated about building a competitive American sport bike have their shot. Whether it mean Erik Buell take over independently, a Victory power plant in my Buell or any number of combinations that may be out there.
Now, I know there are a lot of contractual strings, managerial and restructuring decisions that Harley has to make and the general public will never know about, I just hope they do the right thing. Not only for us 3%ers, but for Erik Buell as well.
todd says
I’d say the market is now wide open for Victory to build their own sport bike. If they could match Buell production volume that would double theirs.
-todd
pabsyboots says
Harley is correct in what they say, they also have an obligation their shareholders who are invested with their own money in the company
That means they have to focus to survive and they have determined its a harley focus then so be it
That means that any Buells on the market are competition and they don’t need it
They also don’t need some half-assed company making bad buells
And that doesnt even address liability and intellectual properties
Harley is sadly doing the right thing
kneeslider says
pabsyboots, “any Buells on the market are competition.”
What? Competition with what? Let me quote myself in a comment on the original story about Buell being discontinued:
“since when does Buell compete with Harley? There is nothing remotely like a Buell in a Harley showroom unless it is an actual Buell. Harley wants to focus on their core brand and models, fine, let them, and let Buell operate independently as their own company. If Harley is in a financial bind, sell Buell off, take the money, why kill it?”
If they have a responsibility to their shareholders, sell Buell and get some money for it, intellectual property, patents, whatever. They then have more money and they can focus on their core brand all they want.
Rickie_D says
Actually it is not about royalty payments on the patents, this is about proprietary drive trains that are or will be used by Harley products in the future.
A XB engine shares too many primary parts with the XR & XL engines to become the intellectual property of an independent company. The business model would have to revert back to pre 1994 when Buell purchased the engines from HD as Bimota does from Ducati.
In addition, the independent company would be like Buell prior any partnership with HD; when they did not have HD purchasing power (volume) causing there bikes to have a MSRP of 16500.00 back in 1992.
As for the Rotax engine, that will show up in something with a HD badge and I could actually see ZTL brakes and fuel in frame on their future products. Think VMax!!!!
If someone bought what could possibly be for sale without interfering with future products under HD development based on their IP, it would be priced way out of the market. Kind of like the new Indian compared to an HD.
So, I am thinking there was not enough engineering resources for the level of development to date before HD infused Buell with their buying power, and now with out the buying power and IP of HD, there is no value in the sale.
Just as a point of reference. I have built bikes with HD engine configurations for 38 years, have not purchased a new HD since 1981, and currently own 3 Buell’s and custombuilt with S&S power.
Scotduke says
I don’t know why HD doesn’t want to sell Buell. HD certainly needs to raise some revenue to cut a slice from all those bad finance packages it is dealing with right now. If VW is looking for a motorcycle business as some have said, both MV and Buell would be in the frame. And Buell is not a competitor to the HD brand, while HD could retain some business as an engine supplier. It doesn’t make sense.
hoyt says
It will be great if Victory has been in development of their American sportbike before this unfortunate soap opera unfolded.
Take an approach similar to Triumph…build world-class sportbikes that don’t necessarily have to race or fit into a race category. Make it unique, stylish, and competitive within reason (weight, torque, hp).
150 hp, 400 lbs, mid 80s ft/lbs. is still more than most can handle.
Isn’t it ironic that Ducati builds a bike with 180 hp, but also needs traction control trickery?
Kneeslider: “since when does Buell compete with Harley? There is nothing remotely like a Buell in a Harley showroom unless it is an actual Buell. Harley wants to focus on their core brand and models, fine, let them, and let Buell operate independently as their own company. If Harley is in a financial bind, sell Buell off, take the money, why kill it?â€
good points…does it make you wonder if they have plans in the future for a HD-badged sportbike? Considering their track record, such a bike would be unlikely. That would, however, make any new iteration of Buell their competition.
Regardless, if Victory/Polaris (or any other US co.) tap into the potential, then HD will be that much further behind.
Tin Man 2 says
I think(hope) that we may see some Eric Buell signature edition models from HD in the future. Hopefully more than Custom Paint. Its Ironic that if half the people complaining about the loss of Buell actaully would have Bought a Buell this would not have happened. I think that many Harley Haters are using this to beat up on Harley ,and feel selfrightous doing so. Remember all through this Economic Recession sales may be down at HD, BUT they are INCREASING market share!!
MG driver says
The true intellectual value resides in the collective mind of Buell’s small design and development staff. Since Polaris/Victory needs a broader line including sport and adventure bikes, they would do well to hire the Buell crew and demonstrate to the world that Victory is more than a Harley wantabe.
kneeslider says
Tin Man 2, I can only speak for myself, but I was one of the very early supporters and buyers of a Buell, an RS1200, built in 1988 when they had a total of 6 employees. I’ve also owned a Harley Davidson, an FXRS Low Rider. But, though some will use any excuse to bash Harley, I, along with many others, simply want HD to give someone a chance to continue the Buell brand and the American sport bike Erik built.
I fully appreciate that Harley is having a difficult time and many of us understand that Buell may not fit into their plans. I hope Harley has a very long and prosperous future, devoting attention to their core market and brands may do the trick, only time will tell. But letting Buell die when others may be ready to carry it forward makes no sense. If everyone were to criticize Harley for dropping Buell but no one was ready to step up and invest in an independent Buell, then there’s nothing to say but good bye. But Harley seems to have cut off the possibility of a sale before even investigating any potential offers. Why? Unless and until, Harley wants to say more, we’re left to speculate.
SteveD says
Rickie_D said it much more accurately than I did.
JimmyJones says
I don’t understand the big deal. Buell made interesting bikes but not interesting enough to stay alive. As Bob points out good ideas will live on and Erik Buell is no dumby. He’ll be okay.
It’s sad about people loosing their jobs though. I recently got the can because games aren’t Microsoft’s core mission. It makes sense and I moved somewhere else.
Crumby about Buell owners loosing their factory support but the aftermarket will undoubtedly step up.
SteveD says
OK, I went looking on the net. Buell seems to have patents on many things related to underslung mufflers, ZTL, fuel in frame, and many parts for the Rotax engine. It also seems that HD currently controls these patents. I say “seems” because I can’t find definitive legal proof of anything.
OMMAG says
Goes to show how little HD execs understand about the motorcylcing public.
Very telling comment by Klein…….
David says
I am amazed anyone thinks Victory can step up to this plate they do not exist in a bubble either. They have asked employees at the cycle division is Spirit Lake Iowa to take year long layoffs. I am not sure the total percentage but a friends wife was one that took the layoff and He mentioned 50 employees. I don’t know if that was plant wide or her department. Either way it is a small plant and 50 people would be a significant percentage. This economy is far worse than is suspected and if you deal with the small business man who is the foundation of our economy it becomes very clear. It is no wonder that big business is worried about the depth of their pockets also. It’s pure speculation on my part but I would guess Mr Buell as painful as this has been is glad to have a job.
Scotduke says
Just to reinforce my earlier point, both Suzuki and Yamaha have supplied engines to other motorcycle manufacturers that could in some way be regarded as competitors, such as Bimota or MZ. Suzuki and Yamaha agreed deals with these lower volume bike firms because it made business sense. So why would HD not want to supply Sportster engines to Buell?
EcoDev1 says
Keep the candle in the window. It took time for Buell & HD to get here. Options need to be found and explored. This is not a fast process. Both firms have needs that must be met.
Tom says
Remember the recent Kneeslider post about brand promise? Harley shuts Buell down now, but if conditions change in the future (and the future is all about change) then Harley can bring the well known Buell brand back with its brand promise intact. If HDI sells Buell, then in the future if they saw profit in returning to this market segment they would have the much, much harder job of creating from scratch an entirely new brand presence.
joe says
I heard on the grape vine the VRod could be next.Sales of the Sreet Rod was a big dissapointment thats why they canned it , and the regular Vrod is treated like the Buell by the die hard air cooled Harley crowd. Its not considered to be a real Harley.
kneeslider says
Tom, good point, though if they let everyone go from the Buell team except for Erik it’s going to make it pretty hard to bring back, too. This is one of those occasions where you hope there is more thinking and forward planning involved in the decision than at first appears to be the case. Again, time will tell.
Mike says
Harley held down Buell. Harley was kind of the life and death of the fantastic, fun sportbike. No kid in the world is going to walk into a Harley dealership to buy a sport bike. And no one walking into Harley to buy a Road King is going to see a Buell and change their mind… They had an absolutely horrible channel to try and sell sport bikes, they did not advertise at all and they wander why they cant sell enough Buells? Word of mouth was their only advertsiing and over the last few years I have seen SO many new Buells.
For the love of God let another American company buy the other 51% of Buell and continue on. Are they really worried that it is going to cut into sales? Let Erik keep his patents that he wasted he his blood sweat and tears on and made SO many riders like myself happy. Sell these bikes right next to Aprilias and Ducatis where they belong and not in the back of a HD dealership…
another jim says
Joe: The V-Rod will not be leaving the HD lineup for a couple of reasons, though it may change radically. HD made a significant investment in the development of the V-Rod engine and platform, plus the tooling needed to build it. They anticipated depreciating that investment over X years by selling an anticipated number of bikes. That hasn’t happened and if the bike was dc’d they would need to right off that investment in the year the product was discontinued. Secondly due to emissions regulations the end of purely air cooled engines is approaching and as much as the hardcore will hate it, that motor will spread across the entire lineup.
kneeslider says
Erik Buell and his band The Thunderbolts will be playing this Saturday:
The Thunderbolts
10/24/2009 9:00 PM at Dry Dock Saloon & Shipwreck
27045 W Grass Lake Rd, Antioch, Illinois 60002
Trackdad says
I’ve already written my letters to HD, the Buell factory and the press. An email to Erik was highlighted by “I have a number of shares in HOG which I’d gladly sell to invest in a New Privateer MC company”. I really hope and pray I get the chance to show my lack of confidence in HD and invest in something more inventive.
Greybeard says
Harley has no vision period.
Not interested. Not for us, no thanks.
They’ve never wanted to compete head to head with anyone.
Look at their racing programs.
Obviously we don’t know about anything going on behind the curtains but think of the possibilities.
Perhaps a Buell / S&S X-Wedge technology marriage?
How about Buell / ILMOR / Penske ? Hoo-boy on that one!
Though I’m not a fan of the current Buell Rotax packaging, that could have been pursued also.
Blind and can’t hear.
4Cammer says
Been a Buell fan since the RR/RS days, have an old signed letter from Erik Buell thanking me for my catalog request (so glad I kep that letter…) from 1993 or so, and finally bought a Buell in 2007. Best bike I have ever had.
Seeing that HD did not take into consideration if the killing of Buell would be a positive or negative line item on their financials I have to assume there was more to it than just dollars. This will all come out in time, most likely when non-compete agreements are expired, and will be interesting to hear what led to the demise of Buell. Again, seems like it was more than just money.
HD killed any future sales to me, and I am a huge fan. Would love a new Dyna or bagger (I am 42…) but they killed me as a future customer.
Greg says
I agree with you 4cam, HD killed any future purchases for me as well… I am glad i purchased an 07 lightning long and i have never been more pleased with a bike. My condolances go out to Erik and all the former employees of BMC…
Simon says
I like Harleys. I own two of them. I’ve never cared for Buells; too narrowly focused for my taste. However, I suppose I can understand this decision from the corporate point of view. Buells, with the exception of the Rotax-engined model, are Sportster-based. If Harley were to sell the brand, they would either have to supply engines to a competitor or else the competitor would have to source their own engines, which means it wouldn’t really be a Buell anymore, so what would the competitor be buying, really, other than a name and, perhaps, a style? I could see a Buell with an S&S engine, I guess, but again, from Harley’s POV, that would probably be helping a competitor. Eric Buell probably has some sort of non-competing clause in his contract, that would be pretty standard, and this would prevent any independent effort on his part, at least for a period of time. It’s too bad, really, but I think this is largely a case of “the market has spoken.” Not enough people liked the bikes, not enough of them sold, and this was purely a business decision in a down-turned economy where even an “iconic” brand like H-D is losing sales. I don’t blame Harley; I understand their thinking. It’s unfortunate, but hey, it’s business.
Shawn says
HD doesn’t HAVE to do anything. Buell is their asset and if they want to park it in the barn for now they have that right. The market wil turn around (eventualy), and when it does, they can roll Buell back out.
Personally, I would never consider a Buell for a primary ride. Second bike – maybe. There isn’t a market for second bikes right now.
Scott says
Harley has a legal right to do a lot of things. If Harley decides to paint every bike they make in 2010 pink, they are perfectly within their legal rights.
. . . but clearly they can do things within their legal rights that aren’t in the best interest of the company.
If Harley refuses to allow Buell to re-start, nearly every bike that Buell would have sold will end up being a Japanese or European bike. Harley will have sent all Buell’s jobs over seas and we have a right to stand up to that. We are within OUR legal rights to say that we will never buy another Harley again if they refuse to allow Buell to reform. We are within OUR legal rights to tell our friends what Harley did to Buell, and ask them if that’s really the kind of company they want to spend their hard earned money on.
Harley is a brand that sells completely on image. With that in mind, they have to be careful of what that image becomes. Harley would be wise to avoid any marketing that refers to “freedom” if they play their hand to the fullest extent of their legal rights. They better also be careful about talking about American jobs and many other concepts they have used to market their bikes in the past.
The sales they might lose to competition with Buell is likely to be small compared to the the sales they could lose due to the tarnishing of their image.
David says
@ Scott
Tarnished image with who? The people that don’t buy Harley and never bought Buell? What percentage of Harley owners and wanters will not buy Harley on moral grounds over Buell? To small to measure is my guess.
JCB says
I think I’ll buy a new BMW next . At least you get something for your money other than the right to hang out with the doo rag /village people crowd . America is still a free country and I’m exercising it by riding my BUELL and my BMW .
Kurt says
@Scott
If Harley had thrown their full support behind the Buell line versus the tact they took it highly likely that those Buell owners would have moved up to a Harley Davidson bike in the future. Happy customers are return customers, be it a Buell or a Harley Davidson. Harleys treatment of Buell customers in general was atrocious. They didnt know the product, want to know the product, and in most cases couldnt maintain the product properly. I will give dues to those dealers that were passionate about Buells, they did a great job in sales and maintenance. Unfortunately there were not a lot of them. As a Buell owner I will buy elsewhere or wait until Erics next big adventure.
Mark Speed says
Harley has (or at least had) great plans to expand their new XR (sportster) line. This included sporty (but not full race) models that would compete with some Buell models. [Not the rotax “racy” models]
Now, HD owns the patents because they own the company. But the innovation came from the Buell guys. If Harley wanted to sell Buell as a company, because of their future plans, I think they could only sell the racy, non sportster, stuff.
-That might work for a company like S&S, but S&S really can’t make an engine that is priced for production. I mean, that x-wedge goes for something like $8k wholesale. That’s why you see them in $30-40k bikes.
I imagine the halls of HD being filled with harried people panicing about almost everything. I think they don’t have a vision of what to do right now. {It’s been a fairly long time since things were so bad.] These people tend to get real self focused on “Why have the sales dropped?” Harley would love to explore other type of motorcycle markets, but they’re kind of ham-strung their “traditional and core” customers.
Harley just wants to shrink smaller right now until things get better. I think Chevy did the same thing (earlier) by getting rid of some of it’s brands too (like Oldsmobile).
Scott says
One hope I hold onto is that Harley is most concerned about the air-cooled models as the real competition and they’d be willing to let Buell re-form making Rotax-only bikes – which would be fine with me.
Two bits of information that might support that idea are that as part of Harley’s “integration” statement, they mentioned that Buell used Harley engines and also we have heard rumblings that the XR1200 power was held back to avoid stepping on the toes of Buell.
That could have been the genesis for the idea of cutting Buell loose and I can understand that. Why hold back one of your models just because you have another division that sells similar bikes?
I would be very happy with that resolution – Buell moving on with their Rotax bikes while the air-cooled bikes end up being the sacrificial lamb that allows a deal to happen.
James says
Harley this Harley that, the only mistake I imagine they made was to ever buy Buell, they could not possibly maintain the same level of service that goes to the “core” line to the Buell’s. Two or three engines in three or four different frames that are mostly similar is a cake walk to train any Joe that’s decent with a wrench to being a 5 star mechanic, throw in something completely different (hey only the cylinders and tranny gears ended up the same and even then I am not sure…) and it is throwing a wrench in the gears, to top it off none of us know everything that was going on, mostly in the corporate level its like trying to see through a solid wall, you cant… who knows maybe they will be introducing all the Buell stuff back in the XR line. That wouldn’t be so bad would it? Maybe just maybe and I know I am dreaming they are going to have Eric Buell design the next gen twin cams a large displacement sporty road king! ok so I suck at making funny’s I know.
PaulN says
Maybe Harley is going to sit on the Buell brand for a few years and wait for the economy to improve. They could easily start up the venture again if they don’t sell the assets and rights now. It costs them nothing today, and gives them the options of either selling the brand at a later date in a better market for more money, or reopening the doors to consumers who have money and a pent up desire to buy a Buell again.
D-Man says
I really have no compassion for a company that is so narrow in focus and foresight. Harley is in essence the Taco Bell of motorcycles: the same ingredients arranged differently to make slightly different appearance but with the same flavor. The XR-like Sportster is really the only decent thing to come from HD other than the VRod Street Rod (which was sooo close to being a bike worth owning) in many many years.
James says
@D-man,
Actually your comparing Harley Davidson to Taco Bell hits the nail right on the head, and drives home my point, BUT while you may have no interest in the fast food of motorcycles it is Harley’s strongest asset when everything is the ingredients just arranged differently it’s a cake walk to (hopefully) maintain high quality standards and improve on only there “core” ingredients (I know Harley haters are gonna flame me, remember lots of dealers opened there doors thinking easy money and didn’t upkeep at all) I believe that is the reason that Harley is moving back to just “core” products, it makes them easy to maintain high quality and reduce the price. (Have ya seen what Honda is selling there cruisers for, its highway robbery and that’s with there “price slasher” sale”) however if they sell Buell and the quality is crap…. lets just say EVERYTHING you have heard about poor Harley reliability is from the sixty’s and seventy’s and they still haven’t got over that reputation, despite getting top marks in endurance runs some of which have lasted 500,000 er that’s half a mil. get it? they cant risk a thing.
James says
excuse me a correction
“some of which have lasted 500,000”
should have read
some of which have lasted 500,000 miles
sorry
z says
the most probable thing in my opinion would be for HD to produce Buell technology bikes under the HD brand
Andrew says
Just Bike magazine in Australia state that Buell is has “been tipped for a product development role within H-D, but this has yet to be confirmed”
I agree with some of the other folks that I suspect that Harley will park Buell until the market improves and wheel it out later.
If you assume Harly didn’t want to loose Buell this is logical. They are obviously hurting having axed 1,000 H-D jobs earler in the year.
I am not from the USA but both Buell and HD are wonderfull American motorcycles. Are Harleys any good, I think harley make the best Harleys in the world. But I’m biased.
Saying Harley riders are posers is a bit of a sweeping statement, what about the dirt track riders. There are thousands of patriotic Americans, who want to buy Made in USA, keep the jobs there. Buel will be back!
EricM says
Went to checkout Buells and Harleys and noticed three things:
1. Harleys have improved in quality but are still loud, slow and heavy.
2. Harley salesmen were really challenged not to sneer when showing the Buell Blast.
3. The Buells looked like Harley was finally starting to break out of the “one trick pony” thing of loud, slow and heavy but it desperately needs a new millenium engine whose transmission isn’t twice the size of the engine. Imagine how fast and nimble Buells would be with a newer, lighter, less maintenance intensive engine?
Well, I guess Harley guys will be happier now. They should merge with Chrysler/Fiat.
john richard says
i am one that does not cut down Harley but this makes me want to run every loud retarded slow piece of crap off the road i see. Harley has stopped being about what Americans want and more about its precious image that in my opinion needs a upgrade. today i sold my 2003 fat boy and will never own a hd product again. Harley is no longer a motorcycle company and to me is more like a designer label. Its more of a status symbol than a quality piece of machinery. Honda gold wings make the best full dressed motorcycles in the world and the only reason people by these Harley is because their due rag wearing friends would make fun of them they are heaver slower and less efficient than any of its competition. But as long as rich ass weekend warriors buy the brand then they will be in business what next is Harley gonna move its plant to Mexico f#@! harley long live buell
Dan says
Harley Davidson will file for bankruptcy… it’s now just a matter of time. It’s unfortunate, because at lest Buell wanted to produce motorcycles for an ever changing market. It’s a shame jobs will be lost, but the company has had it’s head up it’s ass for a long time and there better not be government intervention to save them again!
Donny says
Buell should be a new line of harley davidson motorcycles,not a different company,and harley destroying buell shows they are on self destruction mode,and nobody in todays world is going to pay 17,000 for a v-rod or 10,000 for a sportster with no rear set.