Most everyone interested in electric motorcycles has heard by now, the Brammo Empulse is out in its final production form and it’s a looker. From the start, the Empulse had a lot of visual appeal and the production version looks even better. There’s both an Empulse and Empulse R, priced at $16,995 for the standard version and $18,995 if you want the carbon fiber extras.
So what does the Empulse offer? The technology is pretty impressive, it has a 54hp water cooled AC motor and a six speed transmission with a hydraulic clutch for those of us that like to fiddle with gears. Regenerative braking puts a bit of energy back into the batteries and makes the deceleration feel more like conventional engine braking.
It has a 100mph+ top speed and a city range of 121 miles, highway driving runs out at 56 miles and a combined half and half driving type yields 77 miles before recharge. Recharging at Level 1 (120 volt single phase) takes 8 hours and Level 2 (240 volt three split phase) takes 3.5 hours.
The Empulse represents the best the electric motorcycle manufacturers have right now and there is certainly a lot to like. Electric enthusiasts will cheer and I would hope they start spending hard earned dollars to back up their enthusiasm with a purchase and then begin using the Empulse for daily riding.
Personally, I think the Empulse is a step in the right direction, but I’m waiting for the “no excuse necessary” model, because whenever I see recharge times measured in hours, it’s pretty clear, we’re not there yet.
Link: Brammo
F. Ed Knutson says
As a beginning benchmark electricycle, I think this Brammo Empulse is great. IF this is the beginning benchmark, electricycles can only become more appealing, more useful, easier to re-energize (refuel), and more varieties for the eyes!
Hootie says
Yes, $19k is a big sum. Actually a big sum for any motorcycle, many even less useful in application than this would be.
Most likely the purchasers of a Brammo will use it for commuting and thus one can assume that person has a reasonable commute. Let’s say 20 miles each way. On the weekends they use it for about the same in small errands, for nearly 300 miles per week or a safe 10,000 a year (total reduced for holidays/vacations etc) – that’s more than MANY, MANY “serious†motorcyclists click over on the odometer in a year. So as a tool, it can be very useful if applied to the correct job. If one needs a commuter and short distance errand bike (many people) yet want something novel and interesting, the price may not be such a big obstacle.
Consider this. How many people buy $19K cruisers and ride less than 10K miles a year? Many, I surmise. Does anyone think a large number of Ducati Diavel riders out there are commuting and putting on 10k + miles? To me, $19k seems like a ton to pay for a toy that may get used 3-4k miles in a year (a safe estimate of casual use).
The Diavel is expensive because it is unique, can melt your face, and instantly makes the owner a centerpiece of attention and status attainment. I think one could make a similar buying argument for the Empulse (less the face melting). The difference is one purchase has a limited, yet practical function, the other has a really no practical function but both have an emotional buying motive attached. Yes, in theory, the Diavel has FAR less limiting factors, but when reviewed in actual practice, I bet the owner of the Empulse limits the use of the bike far less than the owner of the Diavel (in a miles ridden view). Agree the Empulse will not fit the needs of everyone, but I believe such a bike can be useful to far more riders than are willing to admit it.
Tin Man 2 says
Folks who buy Cruisers generally enjoy a weekend cruise, not a short commute. The real comparision for this nice electric bike would be a new Honda 250 or maybe a Ninja 500. Still it is progress, and if your looking for attention the Brembo is the winner. I guess its okay to look for attention if your a Techy as opposed to a Cruiser rider.
Hootie says
I didnt mean to imply any disrespect to cruiser efficianatos, besides the Diavel isnt really a cruiser anyway. My point was to draw a comparison to another expensive product with its own niche. Garnering attention was the commonality, and not implied as a pajoritive. Additionally, people always assume an EV cant be used in a practical way because of range and I wanted to illustrate that it can. So really too points – price argument and one on usability. Maybe cruiser was too sensitive of a topic to choose.
Vinnie Dee says
The dirty little secret about electric vehicles is that we don’t know the true long term environmental impact and costs. All my phones for the past five years were replaced because battery life was severely reduced after a few months use. What will it cost to replace the battery pack on this bike and who will be recycling the old one? A better option would be the hybrid gas/electric engine as in the Prius’.
Good on Brammo for at least developing another rich boy toy that has the stylings many of us drool over.
And at least we’ve gotten over the fear mongering posts of electrocution in the rain or accident that was so prevalent in forums a few years ago.
Undercover Motopsycho
http://youtu.be/Vp6yKGS2R9M
Nicolas says
need to setup a system to recharge the battery while you ride in a storm … 😉
In engineering, there is no free lunch, it’s all about compromise. Compromise between price, performance, range, esthetics, …. this compromise there looks pretty good to me, it’s not perfect but we’re on the right path !
Adrian says
Yeah, remember that massive battery spill that devastated the Gulf of Mexico and is still killing fish after 2 years? 😉
Nicolas says
We need Nikola Tesla to come back …
Carolynne says
That would work for my purposes. I wonder though, with electricity getting so expensive, at least in my parts, how much running one would cost.
Hootie says
Brammo estimates .01 to .02 per mile. Substantially less than gasoline, but I dont think saving money is a very strong argument to buy one considering the MSRP.
Carolynne says
I actually don’t see the price of this bike as outrageous, a little up there but still resonable. And actually I think if this article is accurate http://www.nycewheels.com/energy-efficient-electric-bike.html the savings from running an electric cycle might be very worth it over all for a commuter. Of course as was stated in one of the other comments, the issue of replacing batteries needs to be figured in as well.
john says
This is getting pretty close to being mainstream practical. Needs about 50% more range, charge time cut in half, and about 25% smaller price tag and sales will really take off.
Mike says
An electric drive unit is an ACTUAL motor, so its still a motorcycle its just not an “Enginecycle”.
F. Ed Knutson says
Where did you read the word Enginecycle? I can’t find it in the article or comments.
I know I used the term Electricycle which is a word I remember used sometime back in history, though I cannot remember the reference. However since you feel led to make that comment, maybe you should look up the word Engine anyway and see that yes it does include motors. How about Seige Engines used in ancient wars? Converting energy into useful mechanical motion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine
& http://www.thefreedictionary.com/engine
However as modern usage goes, you have some kind of point, only from usage though. But I still don’t find the word Enginecycle in any comment or the article itself.
Oh and how about those guys that work on car engines, and are called motor-heads? Ad infinitum.
B*A*M*F says
If I could get to this price point for any motorcycle, I’d be very interested in the Empulse. It has a nice look, the technology sounds good. I love to go on long rides as much as the next person, but it’s a rarity that I can actually make time for that these days. That said, I could ride this everyday to work, and it could easily take the place of my 150 scooter. The lack of exhaust emissions directly on the bike would make this something my wife would be more apt to ride with me.
Cobalt says
“That said, I could ride this everyday to work, and it could easily take the place of my 150 scooter.”
It’d probably cost 8X more, though.
Rob says
Regardless of initial cost and that the batteries will not last forever this will be a cheap bike to run. IE the benefits are real as far as cost. I’ve seen some calculations on carbon foot print for a Prius compared to small petrol car and the Prius wins hands down this included manufacture and running. No point in comparing this to a 150cc scooter, the Brammo would be a lot more practical to do a daily 100 mile return trip. It’s is somewhere between a torquey 250 and a “relaxed” 500.
Cobalt says
“No point in comparing this to a 150cc scooter, the Brammo would be a lot more practical to do a daily 100 mile return trip.”
Why can’t I compare it to a 150cc scooter? They’d be accomplishing the same task: commuting. I have a 150cc scooter and it has plenty of power for the city.
“Regardless of initial cost and that the batteries will not last forever this will be a cheap bike to run. IE the benefits are real as far as cost.”
I could buy a lot of spark plugs, oil and fuel for the $16,000+ that this would cost me.
Rob says
They can be used in the same way to you but there is quite a bit of difference between this and a scooter. My estimate that this would equal 250-500 petrol bike has been corrected below by Jason. So maybe more like a GSXR600 or an 883 Harley.
fretka says
Loud pipes save lives…………?
Scott says
I think my price-point on this one would be around $7000. Since it has limited performance and limited range and since my budget is limited, that’s as much as I could pat for what would have to be a second bike.
Hopefully they can sell to people with bigger wallets than me long enough to stay in business until they can offer more performance at a lower price.
They’re going in the right direction though and I would say this sounds like the most ‘real’ electric bike so far. Looking forward to seeing what the future holds.
Tom Bows says
Well it’s good to see some solid number (Range*Price) out of a manufacturer for this. It would get me through my bike use. My bike is mainly for commuting to work. 40 or so miles a day with very short occasional side trips. I do have some highway in there, but I’m sure I wouldn’t drain it because I don’t drive all that fast anyway. I put about 8k a year on my bike.
I don’t have them here and now, but at one time I did calculate the cost of replacing batteries in an electric car, and at the time, used the estimate of having to replace a pack every 2 years. And it was about the same as filling the car with gas for those two years. So okay, a bike would use smaller/fewer batteries, but it would also use less gas. So assuming the math would hold up, as long as your battery pack lasted longer than 2 years, you start saving money. Will the bike ever pay for itself in it’s own lifetime in fuel/charging savings? Doubtful. But most vehicles wouldn’t. If you like low maintenance, and want a reliable commuter bike, I say go for it. Save your pennies for when you’re going to have to replace batteries, like you should be doing already for things like sparkplugs, air filters, oil changes, and all the other little maintenance things you’ll no longer be replacing.
Rob says
I imagine you would get more than two years out of the batteries, Brammo claim 1500 cycles so that should last you at least four years if you charge once a day to commute 40 miles.
Tom Bows says
Oh, you probably would get more than two years out of the batteries. Like I said before, I don’t have the numbers I crunched on hand anymore, and no real desire to look up updated info to redo the calculation, but I was using 2 years as a worst case/break even point. If your batteries were to last exactly 2 years, well that would be the worst case scenario, because that was the point where cost to charge+ cost of batteries equaled the cost to fuel an IC engine. Hence, you know that if your battery pack lasts longer than that, (As it hopefully should), you then start saving money on *fuel*(/charging) costs.
This ratio will change in favor of electric vehicles over time, as it’s likely that the price of battery packs will go down, as their life span increases, and gas prices steadily rise.
If you cranked the numbers today, it wouldn’t surprise me if the break even point were closer to 1.5 years. The point at which the cost savings versus an IC engine vehicle would pay for the bike in it’s own lifetime is still probably a way out there yet though.
Keep in mind that I never calculated in things like oil changes or other maintenance issues though.
Josh says
The tech that powers this machine is still in its infancy, but like computer technology, it is developing at an impressive rate. Only a few years ago, the only battery pack of this capacity had to be hauled in a van. Now it fits nicely in a motorcycle frame. Energy density will improve further. As will recharge times. We’re not there yet, but give it time.
I think it is only a matter of time before performance / charge and price indicators of electric bikes and cars will be on-par to fossil fuel powered machines.
Derek Larsen says
Yeah, the price is a big turn-off, especially for a bike that’s for a purpose and not for performance or recreation. And yes, I understand that living in a capitalist society that this is just how innovative products are treated–I’m fairly certain Brammo is probably only turning a narrow margin at this point.
But that’s the real challenge here, not the technology but the economics and politics behind what innovations get to survive the market. I love this bike, I really do, but Brammo’s next big project should be to amass a fierce lobbying force on par with oil and auto companies that can rally our government to do more for electric vehicles than just tax rebates for their buyers. We are spending so much of our taxes on subsidizing corn growers not to produce food, but ethanol in a vain attempt to reduce fossil fuel dependence. However, subsidizing manufacturers like Brammo would allow them to reduce their MSRP.
Paul Crowe - "The Kneeslider" says
Brammo and all of the other electric motorcycle and car makers do not need and should not get any more subsidy than they already get through tax credits for buyers. As I said in the article, proponents of electric vehicles need to start putting their money where their enthusiasm is. If they won’t buy it unless everyone else kicks in on their purchase, then electric vehicles are proving they’re not ready for the market, … still.
Everyone keeps saying electric vehicles are in their infancy and we need to let the technology develop, but electric vehicles appeared right along side internal combustion engines and steam cars over 100 years ago. The internal combustion engine won that competition by a wide margin because the technology for electrics wasn’t ready, and 100 years later, it still isn’t.
The market windfall waiting for the company that can develop an improved battery is incentive enough for people to keep at it. If that’s not enough to garner the breakthrough we’re forever being promised, then electric vehicles deserve to languish as a niche market vehicle for a small number of buyers who want them.
Campisi says
Electric vehicles showed up at the same time as internal combustion vehicles, yes, but the implication that they’ve had just as long to develop as IC vehicles and still don’t cut the mustard isn’t really true. The IDEA has been around for a long time, yes, but EVs were largely abandoned by the end of the first world war and haven’t had big, sincere, industry-wide research and development applied until the last couple decades. Internal combustion is one of the most thoroughly-engineered concepts in our modern world, but even then EVs that nobody with real money and R&D chops have bothered with are already nipping at their heels. The “give it time” excuse comes into play not because the technology is flawed or hugely complex, but because it’s taking night-school remedial classes to catch up.
The issue of government aid/intervention is politicized beyond rational inclusion in EV discussions much of the time, but changing the existing incentives from tax rebates (on tax debt that many would-be EV buyers don’t owe enough taxes to ever qualify for) to point-of-purchase discounts would drastically increase their effectiveness without requiring a dime in actual increases in government incentives.
Campisi says
“… EVs that nobody with real money and R&D chops have sincerely bothered with until very recently are already nipping at their heels.”
My kingdom for an edit button.
biggyfries says
Agreed, e-vehicles have been in development alongside gas-powered vehicles for the SAME period, and we NOW have effective e-vehicles–golf carts and forklifts. E-power is unsuited for any other use until you have a technological breakthrough that will allow e-vehicles to compete. They need to carry enough energy onboard to drive competitively with conventional vehicles. Also they need to be able to be refuelled in a similar amount of time and cost. When that happens I will get in line and pay my money, but not until then.
I fear we will have teleportation devices as seen on Star Trek before we have a viable e-vehicle. And the first successful e-vehicle will be a motorcycle, not a car–why? Because cars require far too much electrical drain for A/C and other equipment to EVER be competitive.
biggyfries says
And may I ad that EV’s have always been under consideration, but they are now thought to be fashionable/desirable with the recent rise in liberal political ideology–liberals say they want EV’s because they don’t understand the physics involved, nor the science of profitable manufacturing. But they WANT EV’s very badly, so manufacturers are feeling the heat to produce them, hang the practicality! I note that no real EV has a line of buyers waiting with cash in hand. The nearest is the Prius, which is not a EV but a hybrid biased toward being gas-powered. But the Prius makes the liberals feel good and they do sell in substancial numbers. They are not especially profitable, however.
James R says
Make it look like a Bonneville or a Norton Commando and I might just buy it! But if they keep making it look like a transformer toy then probably not. I would imagine that once the production ramps up the ability to produce different shapes would become cheaper. Potentially a lot of fun to be had.
Paulinator says
I recently read that up to one-third of the electricity distributed in a major Indian city was “stolen”. With infrastructures that would make a Griswald proud, I don’t see electric vehicles becoming viable any time soon in the vastly populated Indian sub-continent. The first limitation isn’t technology based…it’s cultural.
I will speculate that incidences of hot-tapped electrical services (before the meter) will parallel the popularity of electric vehicles, if and when and whereever they gain mainstream use.
Carolynne says
Whats your calculation on how much it would cost to charge up a “tank” Paulinator? I am not sure if I remember right but you have a background in this don’t you? I imagion the cost per charge would have a strong co-relation to level of electricity theft. It would be really nice if you could just plug it in to a solar panel that has been charging up all day
Paulinator says
Hi Carolynne,
I squandered my education on something else. I’m a self-taught designer/fabricator/inventor and I do know power-conversion. It would cost precisely nothing to charge up a “tank” from a pirated source – an irresistible enticement for a caste of “those” living in or near relentless and abject poverty. Commercially available solar panels need un-obscured daylight to function optimally (which still means only harvesting single digit percentages of the available radiant energy) and that’s a limited commodity in the big Asian cities. I’ve been to a few.
I lived in Brampton, where there was a thriving industry of “gow-ops” supplying NA’s need for weed. Ontario Hydro bills weren’t in their business models. None of them stole gas, though. Mushroom clouds make for poor cover.
Carolynne says
oh Brampton got some bad news there this week. Hope you didnt have any kids in elementary school there.
We get gas thefts in our neighbourhood all the time, often from refill tanks in farmers fields. The guys that can least afford the loss. And every other field has a huge bank of solar panels, one of the worlds largest solar panel farms is within 20 kms of my house. Ironically it makes no economic sense to use that power yourself, you can make more selling it to hydro than it costs to buy it from them.
My only third world experience came from an exchange program in Indonesia, where there was no electricity at all to steal. There were motorcycles, and I honestly have no idea where they got thier gas from as the nearest civilization was two hours away. So I guess in places like that, electric wouldnt do to well at all.
Paulinator says
I was referring to the natural gas that is piped to the homes in most developed communities.
Solar, EVs, green laundry soap, deforestation, species-mining…somehow we have to globally migrate to a sustainable equation…and that probably doesn’t mean what the label says.
Carolynne says
Point well made – that gave me a chuckle, natural gas didn’t even cross my mind. Dont see much of that around these here parts I wonder if they could run a bike on that. I know they have buses on Natural gas here, and I do believe they are experimenting with hydrogen
fraz1 says
yes you can run a bike on natural gas.my brother and i had a honda scooter with a BBQ gas cyclinder on the floor running just last week.was a bit hard to start and ran a bit hot but it was only our second attempt. we have an old cb400 that is next on the list to gassed.
Carolynne says
Hey Fraz1 can you put up a video. That sounds neat I would like to see what you guys are doing
B50 Jim says
Electric vehicles did indeed appear alongside IC and steam-powered vehicles 110 years ago, but while IC technology evolved continually and steam disappeared (too bad!), battery technology for electrics (lead-acid) remained essentially unchanged for the next 100 years. Only now researchers are learning how batteries work on the molecular level, and are devising ways to safely store more energy in such a small space and reduce recharging time. As the results show, it’s devilishly difficult, but progress is being made. As for the Empulse’s styling — I think it’s right on. E-bikes will have to look different from IC bikes to distinguish them in the marketplace. Early adopters who drop $18K on the bikes will want the rest of us to know they’re riding electric. So kudos to the folks at Brammo for sticking with it and building a good, practical bike that still has style and panache. Ebikes have a long way to go, but if this is an example of the earliest efforts, they’ll be unstoppable when the technology matures. Then the changeover will be so rapid it will surprise everyone. Look how quickly new technology supersedes old technology now. The only riders still on IC bikes will be old crocks like me who can’t give up our vintage English bikes.
Rob says
Regarding the styling, I’m always excited to see an electric car usually a Prius around here, but I’ve always been disappointed that they are so nondscript. If only they (Prius) had a solar panel for a roof or something that made it stand out, all I can do is try and bask in the silence as I try to make out the sound of the electric motor. Come on give us something more… An electric hotrod, maybe some battery bulges, a bit of carbon fibre and some blinking LED e-vehicle badging.
Scott D says
Brilliant! When I buy a new bike, I will buy this!
Okay, so I’m a bit broke right now, but when I get some cash together…..
Are there any specs for 3 phase 400V charging? My welding supply will crank that out day and night.
Also, anything stated for kilowatts per mile/km? I had a sniff around the website but no dice…..
john says
You mean 480 volt? There’s no 480 volt in residential areas. Its not even in the neighborhoods and not on the power poles there. It will cost you $65,000.000 to have the power company run 480 volts to a residential neighborhood.
In this day and age maybe all newly constructed homes should have 3phase 240volt if only for the HVAC system. 3phase motors are more efficient than single phase. It will come in handy for charging electric vehicles and lawn equipment too. It won’t be long before we will all have battery powered lawn mowers that mow by themselves like a Roomba.
B50 Jim says
Carolynne —
You would need a really big solar panel, but it’s not out of the question. The main factor is time, and if you plan accordingly, there’s no reason the sun can’t charge an ebike. Remember when gas stations closed on Sundays? We all had to plan ahead if we wanted to drive or ride on Sunday. Electrics will need the same kind of forethought. We’re so accustomed to filling our tanks whenever we want that we forget gasoline wasn’t always available everywhere, anytime. Electricity is omni-available but requires time to “refill the tank”. Plan for it and you’ll have no problems, as long as you operate within the batteries’ parameters.
Carolynne says
I didnt know that Gas Stations were closed on Sundays, maybe my parents were such good planners I never noticed. I wonder if you could have a bank of batteries if you had two or three on the charger in the garage and just change them out. Of course I dont have a clue, so perhaps that is not such a simple operation. But its nice to dream. I think this would be a great bike to ride to work though
Mean Monkey says
@ Carolynne,
B50 Jim is a Brit, but having lived in both Sidcup, Kent, and in northeast Ohio as a child, I can assure you that most gas stations were closed on Sundays and holidays in the 1950’s and 1960’s.
That said, I feel excited that there are companies (and investors) out there willing to build the electric bikes. I hope to soon see solar panel and wind-driven charge stations be developed along the Interstate highways.
Lincoln says
I like electric motorcycles but until they can produce an energy storage system that will swap out or charge fast and will also give you a good 250 to 300kms before a recharge then I can only see them as city commuter bikes. I mean if you’re out with the boys (or girls) for a Sunday ride you’de better have a good idea on that half way charge level in those batteries if you want to make it home. I think gas stations will have to become battery change over stations to make it really work.
FREEMAN says
Recharge times will always been in hours unless you swap batteries. Standard electric outlets do not put out the type of current to safely charge such a large capacity of batteries within such a small window of time. Well, unless you would like to see your house burn down. On-demand power is really the way to go for a no-compromise solution for an electric vehicle.
Paul Crowe - "The Kneeslider" says
Recharge time may keep electrics from ever becoming a true alternative vehicle. Specialty commuter vehicle, perhaps, since distances are shorter and known, plus recharge facilities could be set up to accommodate, but as a “get rid of my gas/diesel powered” vehicle, not so much.
The environmental group doesn’t want anything to do with fossil fuels and criticizes the on board generation idea because it isn’t a pure solution.
Generating electricity is easy, but storing electricity was an issue 100 years ago and remains an issue today, that’s why power plants are always on and wind power tends to be a more “feel good” solution than a practical one.
Jiro says
Re “wind power tends to be a more “feel good” solution than a practical one.” In general these discussions reflect public policy where few of the parameters are defined. The state of the art in grid integration of wind power is in Spain. In 2009 wind supplied a peak of 53% with an all day average of 39% and an annual 12%. Almost all of Spain’s energy resources are renewables. They are not distracted by the petroleum lobbyists to the extent the U.S. is.
If the price of fuel reflected the cost of mitigating climate change electric vehicles would look much more attractive. The current cost of petroleum does not reflect it’s true societal costs. Look at what the DOD is doing to reduce it’s fuel consumption in general and specifically in Afghanistan. There fuel costs 10x to many times more (depending on how one accounts for the dead tanker drivers). Consequently energy efficiency and photovoltaics are looking very promising.
FREEMAN says
Personally, I’m holding out for the on-board mini nuclear power plant. :-p
Paul Crowe - "The Kneeslider" says
Considering the energy density of nuclear fuel, it would be ideal.
Randy B. Singer says
>> Recharge time may keep electrics from ever becoming a true alternative vehicle.
No they won’t. The simple and obvious solution is a battery pack that is fungible and which can be quickly exchanged for a fully charged one in a few minutes with a stop at a “refueling” station. The infrastructure for this, and standardization of the technology, will take some time to put in place. But it only makes sense that things will move in this direction.
Paul Crowe - "The Kneeslider" says
Battery swaps are always brought up, but they’re neither simple nor obvious. Besides having to build all of the standardized batteries for the vehicles themselves and then an extra supply to “seed” the swap stations, if the technology changes, we have to repeat that process all over again, unless you want to freeze technology at some point, probably not the best idea. This is on top of all of the swap stations that must be built. That’s why charging, not swapping, actually makes more sense if you’re going electric. You don’t have to build an entirely new infrastructure along with all of the new electric vehicles and batteries, though you will have to beef up the grid to handle the extra load of all of those chargers.
On the other hand, using a fuel like gasoline with the infrastructure in place, the technology of the engines can improve continuously, using the same fuel in all variations. That way the evolving engine technology can transition smoothly as the vehicle fleet ages and gets replaced.
Paolo De Giusti says
Beautiful work, it’s really a new product, maybe the “first” electric motorcycle
Jason says
I have ridden the Empulse R and was impressed. Hats off to Brammo and its engineering force. This is a serious bike with great power, nimble handling and excellent brakes. Anyone who thinks it fits in the anemic 250/500cc 4 stroke catagory is sadly mistaken. 50+ hp and 6spd makes for a spirited ride that leaves those bikes in the dust.
If you want a commuter, buy the Eneria Plus.
Jason says
Ooops…typo. It’s “Enertia Plus.”
Bill says
Just to put this into perspective:
ONE standard petrol pump can ‘dispense’ about 20,000kw ; 600 gallons per hour times 33.4kwh/ USgallon (figures in UK/Europe are similar) Compare this with your standard domestic supply which is, in the UK 60A@230v, ~ 14kw. Nobody’s going to be charging their electric vehicle at home very fast unless there is a significant upgrade to the power grid.
Another point: there are 8 pumps at my local petrol station, and there must be more than half a dozen similar sized filling stations within a mile or two. That’s about a gigawatt of power, or about the same output as the Sizewell B nuclear power station (PWR).
If all future vehicles are going to be electric, our neighbourhoods are going to change out of all recognition.
Bill
Josh says
But your neigborhood already did change out of all recognition. Way back when cars and motorcycles came along, along with all the infrastructure to keep it all going.
Going all-electric will indeed require some fundamental changes, but I hardly think the urban setting would change so drastically the next half-century as they did, say, between 1890 and 1940..
Bill says
My point is, that in order to sustain the kind of quantity & performance expect of today’s IC engined vehicles with an all electric replacement, would require large and numerous power generation facilities, far more than we need for current domestic & industrial use.
ATM the only available option for this level of power is nuclear (there’s just not enough wind or sun in most places) so, with the current mood very much anti-nuclear, I do not expect this to happen anytime soon.
Fuel oils, petrol/diesel etc. are really space and mass efficient ways to store energy . As the ‘free’ global resources diminish, I suspect that our generation will be recorded as the most mobile in human history. Generating fuel for transport is going to be a low priority.
However, with fewer cars on the roads, there will be more room for ‘knee-sliding’ so, it may not be all bad news 🙂
Bill
James R says
Well I’ve lived in the same close-to-the-city suburb for the past 20 years and it has changed dramatically in that time. At least two petrol stations have disappeared, not to mention butcher shops! When I moved here we had 3 butchers and 2 bakers on the main street, none of which are now here. They’ve been replaced with Jewellers and clothes shops. The way we live changes faster than we realise.
Dano says
I have had a number of batteries for my cordless tools get to a point where they won’t recharge or hold a charge. I send the out for rebuild for half the cost of a new replacement.
Have they posted a life limit to the battery pack?
Has there been any mention of a rebuild service?
Have they posted the cost of a replacement battery pack?
The vehicle price difference is based on options/ jewelery (carbon fiber).
Engines in H.D.’s are fixed cost whether they are in an Ultra or in a Softail. You pay for the radios, saddle bags, paint etc.
The machine itself is impressive and Paul is correct, if it is truely time for it… the market or the embracers of this technology will pony up and carry it forward.
B50 Jim says
Mean Monkey —
Actually, I was born and raised in the small town of Morris, Illinois, and have been in England only once in my life. However, my mum is an English war bride, and my ancestry contains a small army of English coal miners and tradesmen. Oh… there’s one Swabian farmer back there, which accounts for my German surname. Anyway, I ride a vintage English bike (and just bought another to restore) precisely because I understand the English — as much as any Yank can, even one with an English family — and have an affinity for cranky, leaky, balky machines that vibrate so bad that parts sometimes fall off (the bike, that is). But when they’re running right — and it can be done — there’s nothing like a fine vintage English bike.
The reason I recall when gas stations closed on Sundays is that I’m a Boomer who remembers Elvis when he was new, and until the late 1960s the town was very quiet Sundays; only the pharmacies opened for a short time. Everything else closed, and we mostly mowed our lawns, had picnics, went to the pool or took drives in the country — but we remembered to fill the tank on Saturday. By the way, even though it was a small town of about 6,000, at one time there were more than 30 gas stations, most of which performed service as well. Of course, we never had to get out of the car to pump our gas, and the attendant cleaned the windshield and checked the oil.
KarlInSanDiego says
Bill,
AC on the grid is comparable to a water company having open taps at the end of every street. Power companies run their generators 24/7, and when people are not using the power, it is neither stored, nor usually dialed back. So every night, power companies keep the lines hot, and your refrigerator and alarm clock are not close to taxing the system. So plug these things in at night and you’ll never notice them. Obviously, when you scale it to every car and bike being electric, you need more power, but night charging will always make better use of wasted power generation. And if solar can work in Germany, it can work in most places, Norway & other extreme latitudes excepted.
Bill says
Karl,
Yes I understand what you are saying and if we can live with short range vehicle things might just work out :).
It is interesting to crunch some numbers: In the UK there were 34.2 million vehicles (28.5 million cars) on the road in 2011 (tends to grow at 3+ million a year!)
The UK’s total generating capacity is about 80GW (80 million kW). Last night (15 may 2012) overnight demand (between midnight and 05:00) dropped to 27GW. Leaving about 53GW to charge batteries, (assuming all resources are available ) (http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Electricity/Data/Realtime/Demand/demand24.htm)
The Bramo battery is ~10kWh ( ~3kW required for 3-4 charge) and a modern electric car Vauxhall Ampera 16.2kWh battery (~3kW while charging)
So, the UK might just be able to cope with some 20 million electric cars charging over night (Assuming the domestic grid can cope with the current )
Bill
Bill says
Stop press:
I just found some real figure for the surplus supply (http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Electricity/Data/reserve/bmrs/)
It looks like the UK has between 15 and 25GW spare capacity at any one time (because not all resources are truly available 24/7) that gives enough power to charge 5 – 8 million short range vehicles (not too bad I suppose)
Bill
KarlInSanDiego says
Level 2 charging does not require 3 phase power at your home. It would require a stand alone charge with a split phase 240 feed, so it’s comparable to the 220 you need for a dryer, stove, mig welder, or large consumer shop equipment.
Paul Crowe - "The Kneeslider" says
Yep, you’re correct. My mistake.
biggyfries says
I would challenge anyone with this Brammo to a race or to ride side-by-side for a day with my old KLR650. We could do any kind of riding that might give the E-bike a chance. At the end of the day, my lowly old KLR will be victorious.
note: It’s a 2002 I bought four years ago for $1000 because it was unable to start. Its nothing special, but it illustrates the enormous obstacles to make the E-bike competitive with any old cheap IC bike.
Arthur Bennett says
$17,000 will buy me more gas for my TDM 850 than I will use for my remaining time alive – 59 yrs old in Aug.