Curt Winter sent over a few photos of his brand new twin cam sport bike. He just finished it and reports the handling as awesome. Curt has been wrapping sport oriented frames around these big twins to give more folks an idea of how much power these engines have for everyday sport riding. If you’re interested, he can build something for you, too.
I also noticed Curt got a little press on page 40 of the August issue of IronWorks magazine. Check it out.
More photos below:
hoyt says
Curt – yeah, man !
Great job.
Richard says
I think the exhaust sticking out the rear is a bit weird, but otherwise it is beautiful. Definitely excellent work. And it almost tempts me to get another twin.
Trey says
All I can say is “WOW”! I’m kind of not into the long exhaust either, kind of throws off the rest of the bike – maybe shorter and a little wider can?
Trey
Sean says
I personally like the massive exhaust, looks a little like the Guzzi MGS-01’s exhaust. This particular bike, however, pulls it off so much better.
aaron says
for me what throws the visual balance off is the negative space under the front of the tank. that’s an aftermarket cbr can, isn’t it? I’d like to see a front view, that headlight looks as if it could be interesting.
curt winter says
I know the muffler looks a little long but I was pressed for time and that was the best I could come up with on such short notice. In person it actually doesn’t look out of place. I actually started making a can for it earlier on in the build, and at some point I might still do something different but for now this performs well and sounds great. Most of the time was spent on specific frame geometry, hand crafting the aluminum swing arm, forming the aluminum gas tank and making the molds for the tail section. Tons of hours into this bike, doing a black paint job is never a walk in the park, but all in all it turned out great, now I get to look forward to hitting the twisties.
todd says
This is excellent work Curt. Your designs are becoming more fluid and mature; top notch. It makes me laugh when I see the high-school-freshman designs that come out of big-money companies like S&S. They could seriously use someone like you on their design staff.
Are you open on the weekends? I’d like to come by and look at these things in person.
-todd
Curt Winter says
Todd, I’m always around so if you want to swing by just give me a call and we’ll set up a time.
RH says
That has to be a riot to ride. And addictive as well, I’ll bet.
aaron says
actually, the space below the tank at the front is growing on me – I only find it jumps out at me in the low side view photo.
that looks like a good place for an airbox, though… add some v-max type scoops for greater width (more volume) and you could also be looking at some more power everywhere in the powerband. add some port and head work for a more vertical intake tract and you could hide all the intake plumbing, while boosting efficency a little more. (hey curt – are you hiring? I’ve got more where that came from!) 😉
I like the swingarm, the blend of square and round tubing – It’s close to a few sketches I’ve made for my supermono/cafe project – only better. I’ll have to save a photo or two to my computer for “inspiration”
Curt Winter says
Aaron, I wish I was hiring, that would mean I was producing a bunch of bikes. Someday with a little luck and good planning that might be the case. Plans are to get these bikes approved for production and put them on dealers floors.
Clive M Sanders says
That swingarm is immaculate. Great work.
What kind of horsepower numbers are we looking at? Weight?
Curt Winter says
Hey Clive, thanks for the compliments. I have a solid week into that swing arm, lots of machining and welding. The engine in this one is a bone stock 2005 tc 88. Power is not as good as the 100″ evo that’s in the other bike but this thing feels so light that it really doesn’t matter. I haven’t yet weighed this one but I think it’s going to be around the 430 to 450 lbs. mark. Short shifting this thing is the way it likes to be ridden, if you over rev it, it just makes noise, short shifting keeps it pulling all the way through 5th gear.
Hugo says
Curt, the bike has a lot of potential if the design would be a little better. Look for some design student who wants to do his thesis and then produce some body parts and you’ll have a real winner 🙂
Curt Winter says
Hugo, i’ve never really cared for a bike that is covered in body work. If fairings is the look your going for then so be it, remove the body work from any bike that has it and your left with a clunky non flowing machine. This bike doesn’t need body work to make it look good, in my opinion, the goal was to show off the engine and working components of the bike, covering it up with fiberglass would be a shame.
Hugo says
Hi Curt, I don’t mean a full fairing off course because like you said it would be a shame to cover it. Just a nice seat, tank and small bikini fairing/headlight. For my taste the rear is too heavy compared to the fuel tank so I would look for a smaller seat/exhaust combo. The fuel tank can have some more shape definition/sculpting. If you want to built more bikes nowadays the design has to be good because that sells in the end, and this bike deserves to be built more. Something like a MT01 but more sports orientated
Curt Winter says
Hugo, I see where your coming from, on the other bike I did have a small fairing over the headlight but on this one I wanted to keep that good looking top triple clamp exposed with vary minimal coverage. The headlight on this one is from a V-Rod. It has a pretty cool shape to it so I thought I would let it stand alone. It does help in making the overall appearance of the bike smaller, and when working with a powerplant of this size, every little bit helps.
aaron says
I’m with hugo – for a good example of naked bike styling just compare a mv brutale against a honda 919. same purpose, huge difference in excecution. a flyscreen (like many ducati monsters wear) or headlight nacelle (59 bonneville, pantera dragster) could dress up the front without covering much of the headlight. of course, a trellis front end (I’m sure hugo might know where to find one) would be cool too…
Clive M Sanders says
I took the bikini off my monster because… simply… it was useless. Its for looks. The monster is about as aerodynamic as a brick, and with the fairing it was a brick with a windshield.
hoyt says
A bikini fairing would change the “stance” of this bike. Overall the bike looks like it has good visual balance –> a stout, purpose-built stance. I’ll bet a fairing would raise & skew that look. (think of how a good set of mirrors “lowers” the look of a naked bike instead of the stock Mickey ears, ‘er mirrors).
I do not run a fairing on my V11 Sport and have had no problem with wind blasts (except once going over the I-90 Cascade pass westbound).
Even though the black bike is lower than the other grey bike, the cornering clearance is not compromised….Curt mentioned that the engine height is the same on the black bike as it is on the Evo-powered grey bike; but the former achieves the lower stance in part due to the better front-end.
The tailsection probably needs to be seen in person before final judgement is cast….One thing I do not like about the Brutale and many other sportbikes (including the gorgeous MGS-01) is the enormous amount of space between the rear tire & the cowling.
break on through, break on through, ….oh yeah!
Sid says
This bike looks awesome! That black paint + black carbon fiber wheels with the aluminum parts throughout is a fantastic combination.
Don’t forget that all of these good looks are put into a package intended for riding….Curt, you are raising the bar in the custom v-twin market.
Forget about tv shows, motorcycle builder autographs, low mileage mortgages with skulls & flames….it’s about riding first, right? (and not just in a straight line from one stop light to the next).
This bike provides the visual stimulation AFTER a fun ride.
Curt – did you do the paint too?
Hugo says
Excellent choice for the headlight Curt. This is a naked bike from Radical Ducati in Spain, which I think looks very powerfull and also has a V-Rod headlight altough it is a naked.
The fuel tank has a lot of sculpting/detail while the exhaust and seat give it a retro touch but it still looks modern.
http://www.oliepeil.nl/RAD%2002%20CAFE%20RACER%20Izda%202%20R.jpg
BTW these guys also “redesigned” the Ducati 999…
http://www.radicalducati.com/
curt winter says
Hugo, those bikes are awesome looking, I really like the naked Duc. I see what you mean about the tank, that would definantly give my bike a more sculpted look. Sid, yes I did do the paint, it wasn’t until after these photo’s that I buffed it out, now it really shines.
Clive M Sanders says
Hugo, i think thats a brutale headlight on a monster S2R. With some other wacky stuff on it too.
Hugo says
Nope, it’s a V-Rod headlight (read it somewhere) but it fits really well on a Duc! Actualy looks like a “new” Monster…I really dig those megaphones 🙂
hoyt says
I like that naked Ducati, too. But, simplicity in design should not be underestimated or neglected. One of the best cliches in industrial design is “Less is More”. That notion is difficult to refute.
Swoopy sculpting for the sake of swoopy lines, alone could ruin the overall design. Another way to put it is to not lose sight of the complete bike because someone wants to see a curve here or there in a small part. Resist the urge to get carried away with individual parts.
I like Curt’s tank a lot. It is clean & uncluttered while drawing the eye into the whole bike. Conversely, a tank with angles or swoopy edges attracts the eye to the tank itself more than complimenting the whole bike.
The black color only adds to the complimentary shape. Great choice.
Based on Curt’s level of craftmanship in the swingarm and frame, I’m sure he could pull off some killer exhausts (again not an overdone part by itself, but complimentary to the whole bike)
If a bike looks this good in photos, imagine what it looks like in person. I was pleasantly surprised to see how much smaller the Guzzi Griso is in person compared to photos. This bike could have the same effect.
todd says
I’m with hoyt on this one. The simplicity of the design is what I meant by “mature”. Too many designers and manufacturers throw in gratuitous styling cues part out of fear and part to justify their job.
I think some sort of gauge would be nice, like a foam mounted analogue tachometer. Of course, I like motors with a bit more over-rev and a higher ceiling than the TC-88 allows.
-todd
Hugo says
Sorry guys, just look at fuel tanks of the monster, brutale, etc. Those lines have a function in that they accentuate the feeling of the bike. The brutale fuel tank looks very powerfull with it’s muscle like side. This is no swooping line to get carried away. This was made by a designer who wanted to convey a message when the bike is standing still: power, force, stance. The bike looks a little unbalances. The seat is heavy compared to the fueltank which in itself looks small compared to the engine. With some small work the balance would be much better and the bike looks what it deserves to be. By using certain lines or volumes you can actually let the eye focus on the engine. Motorcycle design is one of the most difficult things in product/transportation design and I admire Curt for what he made; it is like a rough diamond; with some cutting and polishing it can become a lot more. Off course taste is always difficult but in the end everybody wants to sell and for instance the R1 sells good because it looks good.
hoyt says
check out the link below…it contains photos of Curt’s bike, Brutale, & Monster
Curt has the right shape and size for his bike (imho)
We all know that photos do not do bikes justice. I’ve had people say Curt’s bike is great but the tank is a bit too big, yet Hugo says it is too small….this discussion is beginning to be pointless until you can see the bike in person.
http://picasaweb.google.com/bigtwinsportbike/BTR
Clive M Sanders says
The only thing i dont like about it is… it makes my monster look like a wuss bike 😀
aaron says
I have no idea what is happening with the design of the monster – it can look awesome, mean, and purposeful at times – but the next time I see one, it looks like another “almost there” design – missing the stance or aggression. I think it may be the new frames (early 2000s onwards?) and any associated geometry changes may have a lot to do with it – I never had these feelings on the original 900 with the 888 derived frame.
Hugo says
Actually the design of the fuel tank of the Monster changed a lot during the years. The first design from Galuzzi was sharper, muscular but it changed during the years. I don’t no how many redesign there were (I know of one) but like you said Aaron, the first one is still the best
Interesting pictures Hoyt, and off course the discussion can be endless. I will make a photoshop of Curt’s bike with a little different fuel tank. With a small fuel tank I mean the general proportions. The rear of the tank is optically too high, the front a little low and the sides could have some more shape definition. Also I would “connect” the front headlight and fuel tank to optically make the bike look “stubby” like a pitbull. I’ll shop around and show what I mean…and then try to host it somewhere 😉
hoyt says
cool, Hugo, let’s see what you’re thinking.
The MV Brutale and Monster photos were not doctored in anyway (at least not by me as I just googled for pictures that were close to the pose of Curt’s pictures).
Hugo – did you see the angled photo (forward facing) of Curt’s bike? I ask because you can see more of the tank’s dimensions.
The lowered profile picture seen above does make the tank a bit narrow looking at the top, but I still dig it. I don’t know of any other shape that would provide that “slammed” & “stubby” look that you mentioned above, but I’ll see what you can come up with….
The ‘Recent Comments’ section of the Kneeslider site doesn’t appear all the time, so I’ll just stop back every once in awhile.
As far as hosting pictures….I used that picaso by Google site for free. There are others, but that seemed to be quick & painless.
Hugo says
I made a quick photoshop; I tried to connect the front frame tube with the fueltank but still keep it simple. I would suggest two stubby exhausts for this bike (it’s a twin after all) and made the seat less “massive” and extended the line of the upper frame tube.
http://lh5.google.com/Huggy70/Rrituo_SY5I/AAAAAAAAAA0/tvRTxLHsU20/Curts_bike.jpg?imgmax=1024
I made a second one which I’ll post later…
BTW what I wanted to say about motorcycle design is that the top view is very important. Have a look at a top view of a bike and you’ll notice how some lines/shapes suddenly “connect”. For instance:
http://www.wolfbmw.com/graphics/r1200s/top.jpg
see how the center tank cover “ends” in the ignition…interesting stuff
hoyt says
Hugo –
I get a google error when I try to click on the 1st link above (ok on the BMW link). I’ve tried this at home & work with the same error:
“Forbidden
Your client does not have permission to get URL /s1024 from this server. ”
I see what you are talking about with the aerial view of the BMW, but doesn’t Curt’s tank do this as well?
Sean says
Woah! Now THAT’S a bike! Awesome job Hugo!
Hugo says
O.k. try this link:
http://picasaweb.google.com/Huggy70/Bikes/photo#5096013995158168466
and this is no.2:
http://picasaweb.google.com/Huggy70/Bikes/photo#5096220406991446946
with twin exhausts besides the seat (like the R1, etc.)
Yes Curt’s tank does do that but with a naked it would be interesting to “integrate” for instance the headlight cover/dash with an upper surface on the fuel tank which integrates the fuel tank cap like the Shiver for instance has: http://www.drbike.hu/files/kepek/sl750shiver_06.jpg
It’s all in the details (I hope I’m not sounding like a preacher 😉
Hugo says
BTW these are also cool looking big twin sportsbikes:
http://www.gc-cycles.com/Hellion.html
a nice single sided swingarm…
curt winter says
Hugo.
That looks cool, I like what you did with the tank. The tail is a little to stubby for my taste, I like the rear of the bike to extend into a fine point, cutting it off short looks like it got rearended. How much fuel do you think that tank would hold. I like to be able to ride anywhere between 120 and 150 miles on a tank.
Hugo says
Well, how much fuel does your current fuel tank hold? You loose something because it’s a little flatter and the rear of the tank is more forward angled, but the sides of the fuel tank come out so in the end it should hold more or less the same as your current fuel tank. I made a third variant with sharper and longer seat and changed the front tubes of the frame to follow the diagonal line from the fuel tank creating a more “downforce” line which most sportsbikes use to create a feeling of speed (I know sounds way to fuzzy 😉
http://picasaweb.google.com/Huggy70/Bikes/photo#5096366105167029170
hoyt says
Hugo – I like your 2nd tank. I still like Curt’s original because the tank has nothing to “break” the side curve of the tank.
The edge you created, which continues the line of the trellis part of the frame, is REALLY cool but at the same time it changes the curve of the original.
This styling exercise can get “busy” as seen with the Shiver, SVs, Benellis, etc. In addition, Curt’s bike has striking, very pronounced lines (frame downtubes and trellis gusseting). These lines are offset by the continuous curve of the tank. Check out the aerial (forward facing ) view of Curt’s bike in my picasso site above. Maybe the Kneeslider can post a bigger picture of the aerial view [?]
There are some nice modern tanks that execute exactly what you’ve been describing, but the trend is getting carried away (SV & Shiver). Other people feel a “tank” (especially a petro tank) should be round-ish with no edges.
Tailsection – I think the tailsection ideally would be in between Curt’s original and yours. Keep in mind Curt said he ran into time contraints to fully build out the exhaust system as a custom one-off. One of his considerations was 2 exhausts, so we might see some wicked stuff, yet.
The level of customizing throughout Europe is awesome, especially for sport-oriented bikes; but the Euro style of the stubby ass really high in the air is over-baked.
Performance Bike mag had a really cool, new, white Speed Triple awhile ago (2 full-page spread). One of the best things (aesthetically) this bike accomplished was that it refined the stubbiness of the original Speed Triple tailsection.
curt winter says
Hugo, I like the tail in the later photo, it reminds me of an RC 51, it’s very streamline looking. The tank that’s on the bike now holds just under 5 gallons. 4.6-4.8, somewhere in there.
GAMBLER says
I dig it.
would love to hit PCH on this bike!
Hugo says
Hi Hoyt, yes you may be right with the carried-away stuff but that all depends on taste, and taste is always very personal. It all depends on what you want to achieve. The GC bike has such a small fuel tank which takes the focus away and make the engine the dominant factor. And probably because I like the more modern looking bike, I also favorize the more “sculpted” fuel tank altough this also is a broad defintion because playing with the radius it can either have sharp edges or softer ones…I feel that if the seat is sharp with clear lines and a more sporty feeling the fuel tank should have the same feel to make a coherent bike/image. That was the primary reason why I suggested a more sculpted fuel tank. A roundish more classic fuel tank doesn’t fit to such a seat but more to a classic racing seat. Mixing styles is always a bad thing in creating one image for your bike…
hoyt says
Hey Hugo –
yeah, I totally agree about tastes being subjective (i hope I didn’t come across any other way).
I also agree about the danger of mix & matching different styles…good points. I like what you photo chopped. Well done & thanks for taking the time.
Curt’s bike with the original tank and a more rounded tailsection would be interesting to see. I am biased towards rounder shapes due to my V11 Sport. It has a classic tailsection that looks good by itself or with a rider aboard.
The Twin Cam HD engine itself is of a classic look, so who knows which body type would compliment Curt’s bike better while maintaining its sport stance:
modern & a bit edgy -or- round-ish with hints of classic designs?
His bike as built will be a sight to behold…..and ride. I think it stands out above all the big twin bikes.
hoyt says
one more thought….
doesn’t Curt’s tailsection have hints of the SS Ducatis from the late 80s – mid 90s ?
If so, I think this would be a positive nod
todd says
Hoyt, I think that is definitely an era of inspiration though I think it’s more in the tank. Just look at what a Pantah looked like:
http://www.micapeak.com/DPG/ducati/pantah/81-600-pantah-tt2.jpg
-todd
hoyt says
Todd – yeah that’s kind of close….but I was thinking more of the 900 SS FE (my favorite Ducati)
http://picasaweb.google.com/bigtwinsportbike/BTR/photo#5096924923654027042