Considering all of the discussion in the comment section after the Mission One electric motorcycle post about how the bike is too quiet followed by comments by some riders saying loud pipes alert drivers to their presence and keep them safer, this article by the AMA addressing the noise issue seems very timely. The problem is loud pipes do attract a lot of attention, very negative attention, and they lead to anti-noise ordinances which hurt all riders.
The first time I saw a sticker that said “Loud pipes save lives” I smiled thinking it was a joke, a humorous justification for an obviously too loud exhaust, but I found some riders really believed it then, and still do.
As one comment pointed out, what saves your life is that gray matter between your ears. Learn how to ride, pay attention, ride smart, assume the cars, trucks and SUVs do not see you. Part of the fun of riding is knowing your reflexes have to be quicker than those of anyone surrounded by steel. Every ride keeps you sharp. You’re part of a special group, you don’t need a set of really loud pipes to save you, I certainly wouldn’t feel very safe if my exhaust pipes were all that stood between me and injury or death. Pipes can sound good without being obnoxious. There are far too many communities ready to legislate against motorcycles, don’t give them another excuse to head down that path.
Interesting article from the AMA and their call for “self regulation” makes a lot of sense.
Link: AMA
Phoenix827 says
I have heard the aurguements both ways. The real problem is that too many drivers cut on a phone or a super loud stereo or any of dozens of distractions and cut off their brains. Ride smart and assume nothing. Be alert and keep your eyes open.
Mel Beaty says
If loud pipes do save lives,, then all exhaust pipes would point forward, like sirens or electronic warning devices on emergency vehicles. Directing the sound to the rear does nothing to warn those in front of you, the very ones you wish to alert. Seems self evident to me.
Jeff says
I saw a T-shirt that said ” If Loud Pipes Save Lives , Imagine what learning to ride that thing will do “
Motoxyogi says
IMO i think the “loud pipes save lives” argument is an excuse to fit a freer flowing pipe, for more power and pub bragging rights. Whichever the case may be.
I know that boyracers with loud pipes set my teeth on edge, and while i enjoy the sound of a inline 4 wailing or a twin thudding its way along i can imagine your average citizen finds it just as offensive.
With all this discussion on exhaust noise, and a few people suggesting setting up an EV so that it can reproduce any exhaust note you want, i’m surprised no one even mentioned Active noise canceling technology.
Its come a long way in the last couple of decades and can be found in your average walkman’s. Hell, BOSE have even adapted the technology to produce active suspension to reduce the impact of bumps.
WRXr says
Here in Asia, riders (and drivers) have long ago discovered how to make yourself known: Use the horn.
FREEMAN says
The ONLY thing that stands between you and that car while you’re riding is you. Take responsibility for your own life and safety while riding because no one else is going to do it for you. Ride defensively and ride smart. Loud pipes are just that: noise.
hipsabad says
Mel Beaty’s point is good. Also, how would loud pipes help the rider to hear what’s going on in the surrounding traffic environment? I find that my senses, first vision, then hearing, are what I use to stay alert to what’s happening. I believe that if my attitude is good and I’m riding responsibly, I’m actually safer, less likely to be surprised by potential accident-causing events when I’m on my bike than in a car where the cocoon effect is the biggest problem. If I’m taking risks then it’s a different story. Loud pipes are for damaged egos.
Rosscoe says
Take a riding course ~ ride defensively ~ the life you save will be your own.
Loud pipes are Loud pipes ~ nothing more.
Chris says
@Jeff: Love it. I want one of those shirts.
People who use loud pipes as an excuse for not paying attention drive me crazy. There is nothing — repeat, NOTHING — that is going to save your ass on a bike if you do not have a healthy sense of paranoia that all the cagers ARE out to get you. Assume they’re all gunning for you and be pleasantly surprised when they aren’t. Anything else will eventually end up in a visit to the hospital.
cl
nakedmadman says
The problem isn’t loud pipes. I’ve run open pipes for years, YEARS on all kinds of bikes with no problem what so ever. The problem is, the REAL problem, is riders who seem to think that whacking the throttle constantly at every intersection is tough, or cool, or intimidating. If you ask me, you look like an idiot. And before everyone jumps on the bandwagon, it’s not just the HD guys guilty of this. For every Softtail I’ve seen with some douche nozzle whacking the throttle, there’s been at least one jackass on a sport bike, and at least one redneck in some clap-trap pick up truck with straight pipes, and at least one more Ricky-racer wanna-be in a Honda with a coffee can on the tail pipe.
Bikes may be taking the brunt of the hit at the moment, but we’re hardly the whole issue. Watch and see, before it’s over the noise Nazis are going to go after every performance exhaust on every motor vehicle in America, and the sad part is, it’s the idiots among us who are opening the door and letting every one of these audiophobes in.
Bazuzeus says
I must say I do use throttle instead horn when some %@&# cutt off.
But my exhaust is 100% legal.
Ratridez says
I can’t believe it , a bunch of whining square heads complaining about loud pipes ridden by tax paying citizens , I sure there’s bigger problems you drive by every day like drug pushers , prostitutes and homeless deadbeats .
Hawk says
From a Canadian perspective – the best one I saw was a “Loud Pipes Save Lives” T-shirt … with the “Save Lives” crossed out and replaced by, “Make Money!”
Below that was a picture of Celine Dion.
~~~~~~~~
I’d certainly agree that there are no verifiable facts to support “loud pipes saving lives”. Even if you do get the attention of a daydreaming cager, it quicky turns negative anyway. I run stock pipes on my GoldWing and ride defensive as hell. When I come across a particularly idiotic moron, I’ve been known to come alongside, when stopped, and make some references to the driver’s habits and parentage. Of course, it isn’t legal to carry firearms up here, eh?
FREEMAN says
@ Ratridez –
In case you didn’t notice: the website is thekneeslider.com.
Azzy says
Its legal down here, but not the appropriate responce, no matter how much you would like to sometimes.
I think I am one of the few riders who would like quieter pipes./ Loud pipes destroy hearing, which doesnt come back. Even my father realised this, and found a set of mufflers that looked like straight pipes for his Harley. What do you know… it raised his milage too. Quiet pipes save ears!
Kneeslider – you make us a shirt that says what Jeff has up there, and I know some of us will buy one.
Azzy says
Oh yeah… Loud colors save lives 10x that of sounds. When everything on your bike and gear is flat black to lok cool, dont wonder when someone doesnt see you there at the light.
Nicolas says
I’m for the loud bikes and prostitutes … 😉
Well, it’s true that very loud pipes are not helping the rider, either to keep him safe or to keep him out of troubles. However, I really believe that a reasonable nice roar helped me numerous times in the traffic. My 2 cents
taxman says
i’m of the opinion that a bright neon pink jacket and helmet would help people notice you 100 times more than a loud pipe.
when a sport bike rider is coming up behind me on a highway i usually notice, probably because of the flashy colors that he’s wearing.
i cant count how many times a cruiser has completely surprised me when all of a sudden BAM he’s passing me on the side. and that surprise is quadrupled if he’s running open pipes that startle the crap out of my passenger.
loud pipes frighten and annoy cagers.
Tom says
Every nice weekend great flocks of motorcyclists leave the cities for the country side. Nearly every small town in Texas you roll through has a sign at the city limits posting their ordinance forbiding the use of engine (Jacobs) brakes by diesel trucks within the town. It’s only a matter of time before there’s a sign just below posting their ordinance requiring EPA approved pipes on motorcycles within the town.
Tin Man 2 says
Count me as 1 Vote against obnoxiously loud pipes, The egotists among us will end up ruining it for all of us. The inconsiderent 10% will not give up their right to offend so ALL after market mods will soon be banned, Your seeing the start of it now, it will get worse. Grow Up People!!!
chris says
This is the USA. If you want to look like an idiot revving up your obnoxiously loud, untuned, technologically antiquate inefficient V-twin, than I think it’s great. I’m not a fan of loud bikes, but what I’m really not a fan of is our Government getting in the way of what we can and can’t do. Stop your ridiculous over regulation bandwagon, and start appreciating your freedom. If you want to look like an idiot you should be able to. If someone rev’s up their annoying motorcycle at every chance they get, (even though I get quite annoyed), I can’t help but smile. That smile is knowing that we have some freedom: so start enjoying what we have left of it! I ride a quiet bike, and most people ask me whether or not it’s running: that is my prerogative.
Jim says
It’s about time the AMA faced this issue, except for the occasional opinion piece in the magazine, they’ve avoided it for years. A couple of towns near me have passed strict noise ordinances mostly aimed at motorcycles and on weekends have placed flashing message signs to warn riders. The police are reluctant to get involved, but go to a few council meetings where home owners with 5 figure property tax bills are red faced with anger and the perps are out of towners and LEO is finding motivation.
Frankly I’d be pleased having the requirement of a prominently placed DOT approved marking, if it was a requirement for all vehicles.
Jeff says
Heck they have noise limits at race tracks so we don’t disturb joe nonbikin public so we can keep on enjoying our sport . So why not show a little civility -something that is lacking in American society these days – and not rattle the cagers to much . I like the sound of a (well tuned )motor as much as any of us but not a 2am when the dufuss chopperhead down the street wants to wakeup the neighborhood cause he’s bad to the bone . It used to be cool but now everyone is doing it and have all the soccer moms and dads all wound up . Hey hogladites and all hogladite wannabees use some common sense . Has nothin to do with freedom .
_mArROkAin_ says
Since i’m not american, and i dont live in America, i think i have a pretty different opinion about this issue.
I think that one of the things we – and by WE i mean someone NOT american – love in America, is the possibility to do alot of things to the cars, bikes or other stuff..i’m talking about freedom! Here in Portugal you cant do nothing, you’re almost forbidden to change your blinkers!
For example when i see a tv show like Overhaulin where they change everything in a car, and that is allowed, i’ve got to say that that its one of the biggest expressions of freedom!
Jeff says
I understand what you are saying _mArRkAin_ but looks don’t wake people up at 2am and get folks all riled up in the middle of the day as the ultra loud straight pipes being blurped all the time . The” Loud Pipes Saves Lives” is just a weak excuse to justify bad the bad manners of the wanna be outlaws . They/We brought this on ourselves and now the Gov steps in and has to legislate common sense and we all know where that leads . There is a difference between throaty and loud . Throaty yes ,blapping load stupid . IMHO .
Ratridez says
@FREEMAN
Thanks 1-800-tips .
Shawn says
By the time I hear someone’s exhaust, they’ve normally passed me up. My bike has a loud exhaust…. but that’s just to let the ladies know I’m there. LOL. As for safety….. umm… its a motorcycle. If I wanted to be safe…. I’d drive a Volvo. LOL.
JSH says
While American TV projects the image that Americans can do anything we want to our vehicles this is not true. Since the 70’s it has been illegal to modify a vehicle’s engine or exhaust system unless that modification has been tested and passed emissions testing. This law has been ignored for decades but it doesn’t change the fact that changing a motorcycle or car’s exhaust is illegal.
We can’t legally change our blinkers either, there are rule for size, spacing, and location. Again, this is usually ignored.
isitmondayet says
I understand both sides of the argument and still believe that some noise is better than no noise. But, I rely on me and I believe I am invisible and I will ride to survive. If law makers seek to silence bikes, I would want severe and harsher penalties for cagers that injur (or worse) bikers.
The “slaps on the wrist” that I read about regularly are not helping. The phrase we hear, “I didn’t see them” should automatically be heard by the courts as, “I decided to not pay attention and did this on purpose. It is my fault.” – let the gavel fall and jail time (and hefty fines) be imposed.
Ride Safe!!
Phoebe says
My Honda has a stock pipe, but it’s pretty loud…loud enough to make my ears ring after riding it for an hour with a helmet on (I wear earplugs). My Blast has a Jardine pipe with a quiet core insert in it. It’s a louder than stock, but not anywhere near as loud as most of the Harleys I hear riding around in my area. Simply put, I haven’t found the sound that my motorcycles make help people to notice me when I ride. Making yourself more visible does help, but you still have to ride as if nobody on the road sees you, because chances are…they don’t.
On another note (ha), I think a really loud horn would be much more useful than loud pipes if you’re relying on sound to keep you safe. Plus, they’re cheap and really easy to install =)
Jeff says
While I was out riding on sunny day I saw a guy on a HD with one of those truck horns wired up on his bike . It startled the crap out of me when lit that mutha up . Ha !
kim scholer says
There’s been a number of times when I’ve been out there, riding a relatively loud 1950’s bike, with its stock exhaust, when all of a sudden some ****heads with open pipes blast past me. Didn’t hear them at all before they were right past me, giving me a shock. A pedestrian might hear one such a monster coming in the distance, but I doubt any motorists at speed – car or motorcycle – will be able to hear anything in time to be alerted by the sound.
GoRogerGo says
Quieter pipes give ME a better chance to hear what’s going on. I’d rather have another input that I can use to react than expect that others are going to hear me and react accordingly.
I think the AMA is handling this right. Impose rules at their own events, encourage individuals to act responsibly, yet fight laws that are prejudicial to motorcyclists.
By the way, I do enjoy the sound, just as I enjoy speed. There is a time and place for everything.
Spartandude says
I wanted to clear up a misunderstanding that seems to be prevalent. Loud pipes are not to alert oncoming traffic they simply alert a driver in the lane immediately next to you. I hate the noise (especially my early morning commute times for my neighbors) and the pipes dramatically suck gas so the next free weekend I get I am going to stock. I drive 95% on freeway, in Houston rush hour, and have relatively little danger from someone driving head on, but high danger of the person next to me moving over into my lane because they didn’t see me. I wear a DoD approved reflective vest, I do not trust the pipes to save me, I drive conservatively (<5 mph over speed limit ever), defensively and keep alert myself. I just am making an observation of number of times people try to take the space on the concrete that currently has my soft pink butt. Oh, and ATGATT, baby (yes, even in summer)!
Personally I think the bikes should be quieter, especially during my Sunday afternoon naps (yah, like I get those).
-Peace.
Kevin says
Those that think loud pipes saves lives need to notice two things. First which direction these loud pipes point? Backwards, right? Second, when was the last time a car pulled out in the path of a motorcycle backing up? You hear an ambulance coming because the horns are pointed forwards and not everybody hears those.
Phoebe says
Spartandude is right, if you’re concerned about safety, do ATGATT as well as develop good riding skills. Pipes aren’t gonna save you. I’m an ATGATT girl myself…it’s not cheap or very sexy (I wear textiles, not leathers…sorry guys! 😉 but it certainly gives me some peace of mind.
Azzy says
We may have the right to not care and make it all as loud as possible, but we have a responcibility to be courteous as well.
Im no church goer, but the idea of do onto others as you want them to do to you sounds right in my book.
Jac says
For those of us who live in the woods, the biggest problem on a motorcycle is deer. For deer, the best you can do is some sort of noise maker pointed forward like an electronic deer alert and ride defensively. Add a loud air horn and I think you’ve done about as much as you can. By the way, the air horn works for the citizen driving in the next lane as well.
steve says
I don’t like straight pipes for a lot of reasons but I don’t like a quiet motorcycle either. Horns are about useless on a motorcycle when the cage has the windows up and the radio on and they are on a cell. I don’ t ride in the blind spot but when it does happen a quick blip of the throttle will snap their attention to life. My bikes are supertrapp equipped and aren’t offensive in most cases. As for the AMA they seem to screw up about as much as they help but they to need to be around.
Mark says
I know loud pipes get the attention of daydreaming cage drivers but here is a point of being too loud. I’ll stick with my just loud enough pipes.
alex says
It doesn’t matter matter what you wear, or what flashing lights you put all over you motorcycle, or how loud of an exhaust you put on it. people still AREN’T going to see or hear you. so ride defensively and feel free to use whichever method you feel fit. I’ve ridden sport bikes and built choppers. Both loud and quiet, and personally feel that a louder exhaust helps. I also agree that you don”t have to be a douchebag about it at every intersection though.
jtrowe says
I have been riding a cruiser for about a year and a half now and am currently looking for louder pipes for a couple of reasons.
1) They do sound better and I like the sound although I do believe some bikes are rediculously loud and somewhere in there, are feeding egos and quite rude.
2) I do believe they help in alerting drivers that the bike is near!! (If you truly cannot hear a bike with louder than stock pipes on the roadway, then you are the reason people use them.
Get off of your phone!
Eat inside the fast food joint!
Turn down your radio!
Stop talking to your passenger!
Look twice before steering your 2500 lb vehicle into another lane or on the roadway!
Use your blinker (ALWAYS)!
If you wear glasses, wear them!
If you wear hearing aids, Turn them up!
The fact is, the same people complaining about the noise are the ones we are trying to protect ourselves from!
Of course we have to ride defensively with the belilef that we are invisble and everyone is out to hit us. If not, some idiot driving their car talking to their girlfriend, eating their lunch, while not wearing their glasses is going to not look and change lanes right in front of us or worse pull out in front of us, because they didn’t see us!
Take some responsibility for yourselves, pay attention when you drive and allow americans to be americans.
J
Hey Look! There is someone crossing a double yellow line on their cellphone!
I hope that bike sees them!
street bob says
loud pipes do infact make it a greater chance for people who are selfish on the road to reallize you are there… i have always respected the other driver an have been an offensive driver at that i have a great record. but that only gets you so far, ive been almost run off the road or thrown off my bike do to someone not wanting to pay attention even if you are. loud pipes are our only seat belt we have. so we need all the help we can get on the road. now i completely agree if there is someone purposley twisting the throttle back just to get some attention, then there should be consiquence. after all your giving a bad name to the rest of us as well as a stereotype. isnt this america anyway…were getting more an more of our freedom taken away everyday. we just want to enjoy something that we work very hard for. what was so great about this country is slowly being taken from us.
fireninja says
I live downtown in a major metro (Portland, Oregon) and ride a lot in the city. Over the past few years I have owned about 20 different bikes (I get bored easily) everything from vintage standards, to cruisers to sportbikes, some with car quiet stock exhausts and some with obscenely loud totally unmuffled straightpipes. As an urban rider I have noticed that louder pipes do indeed increase awareness **in a city environment** The exhaust sound bounces around off the buildings and alerts the soccer mom in the SUV with the AC blazing, and the radio playing gossiping on her cellphone that I am next to her at the stoplight. Far fewer cages have tried to do a slow speed merge into me on the louder bikes. Far fewer people have pulled out into my lane from parking lots, and far fewer pedestrians have decided to suddenly jaywalk right in front of me.
I fully admit that in terms of increased awareness, louder pipes are pretty worthless when I get out into the West Hills. But riding downtown at relatively low speeds they make a real difference. Enough so that exhaust volume has become one of the factors I put into the equation when I’m assessing a bike. It isn’t as big a safety improvement as going from drum brakes to disks, but it is significant.
Just my 2 cents.
YoginOne says
The truth is, and this comes from years of riding and police riding experience as well as accident investigations..Louder than stock pipes can have a benefit in making drivers more aware of your presence…To a point. Pipes that are too loud are more of a distrction and can actually cause accidents.
If you are setting off alarms, scaring little children, and people at roadside cafes cannot hear themselves speaking..You are TOO LOUD!
The goal is simply to let drivers know that you are approaching from a REASONABLE distance and to be aware that you have just pulled up near them or are in the vicinity. This does not require your being obnoxious.
Kim says
I am surprised at the amount of cut and dried comments to this issue. Loud pipes don’t save lives in and of themselves, but they do help. Of course you have to pay attention, ride defensively, etc. My friends cousin was killed last year when a car in the lane next to him just pulled over because they didn’t see or hear him. Noise isn’t just about ego. I can hear a Harley rumbling behind me,(even though the pipes are pointed to the rear!?..)
I know he is there. I have had crotch rockets burn by me in my car and the first I saw of him was when he startled me as he passed. Noise isn’t the final solution, but it helps.
J.L. Riggs says
I am 52 years old and have been riding motorcycles since I was 16. When I was a beginning street rider I laid my motorcycle down once, my fault. Since then I have ridden in many states in the U.S., and once to Nova Scotia. I have have ridden through the country, through small towns and congested large cities. I have had my share of close calls with cagers who weren’t paying attention, yet I’ve never had an accident, which I credit mostly to my older brother Dennis who taught me to ride safely. I’m not telling you this for any kind of bragging rights but so you have an idea of my past experience.
In all that time I have never run straight pipes or even modified exhaust not only are these pipes ILLEGAL (so those of you who say it is your RIGHT to use them are wrong), they are offensive and are totally unnecessary.
The AMA for years has had to have lobbists in congress to fight for the rights of motorcyclists and the main source of threats to our rights is the continuous complaints from a growing number of citizens (who are also taxpayers) who have simply had enough.
The absolute best defense against cagers is learning to ride safely. Start by paying attention to your surroundings, road position, speed, and the behavior of the cagers around and ahead of you.(weaving,constant speeding up and slowing down, etc.)
WE are responsible for our own safety and all the illegal loud pipes, horns, or flashing lights in the world can’t make an unsafe rider safe. There is so much more to riding than just starting and stopping. Learn to ride safely.
Dean W says
“If you think loud pipes save lives, imagine learning to ride that thing” T-shirt:
http://www.pjsparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=60&products_id=485
Cliff Wells says
@chris
You said:
“This is the USA. If you want to look like an idiot revving up your obnoxiously loud, untuned, technologically antiquate inefficient V-twin, than I think it’s great. I’m not a fan of loud bikes, but what I’m really not a fan of is our Government getting in the way of what we can and can’t do. Stop your ridiculous over regulation bandwagon, and start appreciating your freedom. ”
I don’t recall any part of the constitution that gives the right to destroy the hearing of bystanders and wakes my kids up at night. Unlimited freedom is called anarchy. If that’s really what you want, then I’m sure you’d agree that I have the right to bash the guy with loud pipes over the head with a crowbar, or perhaps give him a slight bump with my car when he passes by. There’s limits to freedom just as there are limits to government regulation. Absolute freedom (anarchy) is just as bad as absolute government control (totalitarianism). Think about it.
Cliff Wells says
Also, to those who think that loud pipes provide any measure of safety, here’s my take on it: when you’re in a car, it’s difficult to tell which direction a sound is coming from. Loud pipes may indeed get the driver’s attention, but now what you’ve done is take his or her attention off the road where it ought to be as they look around to see who the asshole is. If I’m driving next to someone (which I rarely do anyway), the last thing I want is for them to look at me, since that often means they’ll start drifting into my lane. Also, the intimidation effect is a pretty stupid idea. Just ask police how many people crash right in front of them (or into them) because they got distracted by the sight of a police car.
The best defense is:
1) keep a safe distance on all sides.
2) always pay attention and assume other drivers aren’t.
3) don’t make sudden, unexpected maneuvers and always expect that other drivers will.
This is true whether you’re in a car or on a bike. I can’t count how many times I’ve been in my car and had other drivers attempt to drive directly into me. If you are counting on being seen, whether in a car or on a bike, then you are an accident (or casualty) waiting to happen.
Jay says
Well said, Cliff. I’ve read many sensible comments from good riders here. I have also
read some that were not so sensible. You know, justifications for loud pipes. There
are no justifications for loud pipes. NONE. Loud pipes are illegal. Really. There is also
no such thing as ‘biker rights’, just as there is no such thing as ‘motorists rights’.
Operating a motor vehicle, motorcycles included, is a privilege bestowed on individual citizens by the states. Those privileges are contingent upon those individuals complying with the state’s motor vehicle laws. No individual, or group of individuals, are granted exemption. to those laws. Loud pipes are illegal. We riders need to comply with the law. For motorcycles, the Code of Federal Regulations 40, part 205,sub part D and E says it all. We could use some actual enforcement of these laws for a change.
SM says
I’m a Soldier currently deployed to Iraq. In my time over here I know that loud noises can scare the socks of your feet, but they can also alert you. I believe loud pipes are needed, but to an extent. Riders and cagers should both use their eyes and ears. Allthough I know alot of cagers have loud sound systems. I have one myself in my car. The best way to avoid a wreck is to maintain situational awarness. Know what is going on around you. The roads in Iraq are a nightmare. With bombs, children, people, and live stock traveling them. The condition of the roads themselfs are hard to navigate from all the pot holes and weather damage. I drive these roads and have to yet get into an accident or do something that I didnt want to do. Other Soldiers and I do this by keeping what the Army have taught us. Maintaning situational awarness.