The proposal mentioned back in May, to replace the 250cc GP class with 4 stroke motorcycles has been decided. The new class will be 600cc 4 strokes with a maximum of 4 cylinders. Replacing the 250s with something else makes sense as everyone moves away from 2 strokes but it will be interesting to see if the 600cc class will be a technology leading segment like the 800cc MotoGP machines are.
The new rules begin in 2011.
Link: MotoGP.com
oribaka says
This is going to lead to some seriously insane 600 cc engines. Sadly though, I don’t think the races will be as good as World Supersport is atm.
hoyt says
This could lead to seriously boring racing that is already going on in AMA and WSB.
The worst part is that this decision will not lead to OEMs manufacturing smaller displacement sportbikes like what could have happened had they set the new displacement to 450 or 500 cc.
They are also losing KTM and Aprilia from participating. KTM and Aprilia both competed very well in the 250 class and both have engine tooling for a 450 or 500cc engine.
Frustrating.
mark says
Seems like another political move to placate the Japanese factories, rather than doing the best thing for the sport. After all, who really cares about another 600cc class? It is not as if there weren’t 600s racing at all levels right now, and it is certainly not going to be inexpensive…
Skizick says
So, let me understand. A 600 four stroke is the equivilent of a 250 two stroke. It would seem to be quite a leap from a 125 to a 600. Is the move prompted by two stroke emissiions? How about outlawing premix and supercharge the two strokes instead?
Mr. Tanshanomi says
Sad, really. This will lead to no truly new innovations, just a bunch of scaled-down designs no less different from the big classes than middleweight production supersports bikes are different than WSB.
That’s just what a moribund roadrace scene needs — more grids full of carbon copy bikes, differentiated only by their paint jobs and sponsor stickers. If I wanted that, I’d watch NASCAR.
ROHORN says
Anybody want to bet that 600 fours will be the top GP class by then? And then we should see those 400+(?) twins.
A GP spec 600 would eat a consumer product spec 1000.
OMMAG says
Yep! This looks like a mistake to me.
I think the displacement should have been kept down.
There is no reason that I can see to go the easy route with high performance 600s as the starting point to emulate the performance of the GP250s.
If they have to bump the displacement to compensate then 400cc should be the max. Just my opinion.
Scott says
I agree with OMMAG, 400cc Max!
DEREK says
Buell Blast would run in this catigory. Wouldn’t mind seeing a Blast with full race fairings, and a trimed up tail.
pabsy says
the old 2 stroke 500cc + 25% give 750cc or 800 as it now stands in the premier division
so shouldn’t the 250 + 25% yield a nice 400cc class ?
i think with less intertia the 600 will run so close in times to the 800 as to make the class a little irrelevent ?
todd says
Exactly. I don’t see 600cc fours as any different than 800cc fours. I bet the 600’s could be pretty competitive with the 800’s, lap times being very similar.
400cc twins, 450cc singles, 500cc pushrods (Blast, Royal Enfield!) would have been the most interesting (if not exciting). Maybe throw in some 250-350cc inline fours…
They’re probably trying to phase the series out once the redundancy becomes painfully obvious.
-todd
Blair says
perhaps they are saving the 400cc class to replace the current 125’s 2-strokes with. Then you have a nice 200cc stepping stone between classes.
Nicolas says
The average Joe likes to see his bike on the track, that’s why he buys a Rossi replica or at least the stickers to make his bike look alike. The same Joe is not buying 250 cc 2strokes or 400 cc 4stroke (except for Japan), so why would the manufacturer invest in this category ?
oribaka says
“perhaps they are saving the 400cc class to replace the current 125’s 2-strokes with. Then you have a nice 200cc stepping stone between classes.”
Sounds like a reasonable explanation. Yet, a little math tells you that with a BMEP of 14 – which is not unreasonable for a racing engine – even 400 cc engines will be able to fork out 110 bhp at the crank if revs are kept up which they will most likely be when we’re talking GP level considering the performance level of current GP 125 and 250 cc’s.
I personally think that it’s going to be a huge leap for youngsters and actually think that the proposal of 400 cc to replace 250 cc is quite a lot more reasonable. We even have a Danish championship of production bikes that are 250 cc 2-strokers and 400 cc 4-stokers.
Old Will says
Keep the 250 a 250. The 4 strokes aren’t going to run that much slower for long. By 2011 there could be some competitive 250 4 strokes ready for the season. Just an opinion.
todd says
“…so why would the manufacturer invest in this category ?”
Nicolas, for the same reason they invest in the 800 class. I don’t know of any 800cc replicas on the street yet untold millions are spent every season (so far) on their development.
If manufacturers invested in the development of 250s and 400s we would see many more of them on the road. Look at how well those capacities sold back when the manufacturers gave them the time of day (think CB400F). Now really only Kawasaki sells a 250 and it is their best selling motorcycle by a huge margin. Just think how far they could take it if they had a little competition.
-todd
bR1an says
I grew up idolizing guys like Rainey, Gardner, Schwantz, and Lawson. Bike racing pretty much died for me with the introduction of Motogp. I really tried watching it but, alas, it just wasn’t the same for me. Motogp just didn’t capture the raw excitement of those wild and woolly GP two strokes that would as soon spit you off as let you ride them. Watching Motogp seemed like eating stolen candy…you knew it should taste good, but it just didn’t sit right. Change is inevitable and I’m sure the Moto bikes are superior to the old smokers in every measurable way, but the character will never be duplicated. It just dawned on me that it seems the bikes were as much my heros as the men who rode them.
Here’s to hoping that the smoke never completely clears.
mike fawkes says
sounds boring I like the idea of really hot 400’s I’d bet in the right hands they’d be pretty close in lap times to the big bikes just a very different riding style. too bad really they’re doing it this way.
Earl says
400s would’ve been the way to go, if 4-strokes were to replace the 250s. But this rule change isn’t about that – it’s about getting us all used to the loss of difference between GP and WSBK, so that when they are eventually amalgamated we won’t miss one or the other.
Hugo says
Well, the German guy Durbahn got his CBR600RR down to almost 300lbs dry: http://www.durbahn.de/Web%20CBR600rr.htm
so the OEM’s must be able to make it a little less meaning 150hp and 275lbs are feasible which seems a big jimp from a 125GP making some 56hp.
A bike with 100hp and 250lbs seems more like it so 600cc seems to big a step (like everybody says). Would be interesting if it was 500 because then manufacturers could make a twin out of two 250 4-stroke engines (which almost all oem’s have)
meaning it still is a prototype but based on an existing engine to reduce costs
therock says
why didn’t they collaborate with the australian company Orbital to work on a clean two stroke. isn’t motogp prototypical and experimental? why not prototype and experiment with a cleaner engine as sooner or later we will rediscover that 2 stroke has a more efficient eco system from fabrication to power production.
600cc is just boring and passe. ah well, at least we have a couple of years left to whiff away at the exquisite smell and get our fix.
Mr. Tanshanomi says
Hugo’s suggestion of a 500cc four-stroke limit harkens back to the exotic old 500 fours of the ’50s and ’60s, which would be cool, at least to provide some continuity when reading through the record books.
davefla says
Yawn. So, now I can ignore the 4-stroke underclass that replaces the 2-stroke underclass I previously ignored? A maximum of 600cc and four cylinders – wow, what a breakthrough concept! I’ll stick with SBK Supersport; at least you see the occasional Daytona 675 in the top ten.
Meanwhile, MOTO-ST and the Pair-A-Nines Ninja 650 are more interesting every time I see coverage. And no, I don’t write that only because a Buell 1125R was overall winner in Wisconsin last month. But it helps.
christopher says
i’ve not heard what other kind of restrictions are going to be placed on the bikes, but i’m sure it’s more extensive than 600cc and 4 cylinder maximum. perhaps there’ll be a maximum power to weight limit. it seems that’s becoming a pretty popular way to keep the competition close. i can see the manufacturers exploiting the benefits of twins and triples in a class like this. perhaps we’ll see races won by torque off the corners vs. max straight-line and corner speed. yeah, i don’t honestly see that happening either, but a guy can dream. . .
Chris says
Just what we need, another 600cc class.
Yawn.
Wolter says
Maybe we could get a 3 wheel class for MP3 piaggios, Brudelis, tilting motor works (maybe not a Vmax) and tilting Harleys, all together. All hydro-static diesels. That would be diverse. Put-put-swoosh as they glide along.
Tim says
I agree that 600cc 4 cylinders is not the way to go. Same development cost (or more) and nearly the same lap times.
Meh. At least WSBK racing has two different sounds and some close racing: this is just another sop to the japanese manufacturers.
The most technically innovative and interesting race class presently? Has to be supermono or minimono: Anything you like as long as it is single cylinder and not forced induction (though Roger Goldammer makes a quite convincing argument for single cylinder and forced induction).
Not enough differential between this and the premier class.
400cc however: maybe the two VFR400R’s I own will go up in value?
Sean says
There’s really only one solution here. Because a 600cc GP bike would be so close to the 800cc GP bikes, they need to raise the displacement limit of the premier class back up to 990/1000cc. Oh and ban traction control. That way everything trickles down perfectly, you have a 1000cc GP bike which is one-off, a 1000cc WSBK/AMA based off the production model, and trickle down to your 1000cc street production model. And have exactly the same thing for your 600 class.
I have spoken. Therefore it shall be done. Muahahhaa
Wolter says
I always liked the proportions of 750, 500, 350, 250, 125 and 50 displacements.
600, 400, and 200 does it for me the same way.
–> 600 multi, a 400 twin and a 200 single. Sound like
–> 750 triple, a 350 twin and a 125 single.
(OR 600 single, a 400 twin and a 200 four 🙂
Does anyone really want to see
600 four, 400 four and 200 four?
(Actually – i would espeacialy i’d like to hear the 200 four!)
The result in terms of a gap needed is 180hp (600cc), 120hp (400cc) and 60hp (200cc).
RobbV says
I still have’nt gotten over the loss of the 500cc GP class. And [ NO ] its replacement is not the same. Nowhere near the same, all they’re going to do is screw up another class. WHY ?
” BRING BACK THE 500’s “
A.M.Phibian says
I’m not a big fan of this idea either. Yes there will be prototype chassis etc, but to all have honda engines? that’s too close to being a Honda series for me. I liked the idea suggested by MCN, which was to use super tuned 450 4 stroke motocross engines. Pretty much every manufacturer make them so would resolve the cost issue of designing and constructing prototype engines, and keeps the distance from the Supersport and Superbike bikes.
I guess using 250 4 stroke motocross engines would be able to replace the 125gp bikes too.
WICKEDMS says
*** a question to think about*** If so called factory’s are being crack down by the EPA for pollution emissions hmmm… Ever thought how many more parts they have to build for a 4-stroke how many more carbon gases do those factory release while building 100+ more parts in those 4-stroke engines?
Nothing against 4-strokes But don’t bash and take our 2-strokes away! 2-strokes did nothing but bring the world of Motorcycling to life! You remember!
PLAIN AND SIMPLE 2STROKE-CC AND HP TO WEIGHT WILL NEVER BE BEAT BY A NATURAL ASPIRATED 4-STROKE!
HERE LIES THE REAL TRUTH! CLICK AND READ THIS. THEW FACTORY’S ARE HIDING IT FROM US! AND HAVE BEEN SENSE THE LATE 90’s WHEN TESTED WITH A NSR 250.
http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/06/two-strokes-strike-back/