The Quail Motorcycle Gathering was held this past weekend and in conjunction with the other activities, Bonhams held an auction. I was curious about the results so I browsed past Steve McQueen’s FIM international driver’s license, which sold for $42,700, and instead looked over the motorcycles. The top seller was a 1950 Vincent Series C White Shadow which sold for $111,150. A tidy sum for a motorcycle, but what I was thinking was, what the heck was a Vincent White Shadow? There’s the Vincent Black Shadow, Black Lightning and Black Prince, … but White Shadow? Never heard of it.
The description describes the model’s distinction in this way:
The consigned machine is a rare White Shadow. Unlike the Black Prince, Black Shadow and Black Lightning, the White Shadow eschewed black, stove enamel engine cases, and these rare models were sold with bare metal cases. This example is one of them, thus the White Shadow nomenclature. A further rarity is the Chinese Red frame. Once again, most Vincent frames were also black, with precious few done in red by the factory. Some Vincents have had their frames repainted red by subsequent owners.
You learn something every day. Of course, all of you Vincent experts out there will probably have many more details about these particular models, but given the Vincent’s notoriety among classic motorcycles, it’s interesting to still come up with something a little off the beaten path. Neat.
Link: Bonhams
Skizick says
Lookin’ at those loooong pipes, I bet it’s pure British acoustic heaven in the canyons
Denis Martyn says
Those long exhaust pipes look like they came off a Vincent Black Lightning, a competition and record setting machine. Since this pictured model has a speedometer and lights, presumably full road equipment, and since road going Vincents came with mufflers, I can only assume some previous owner has changed pipes. It’s still a very interesting motorcycle, and seems mostly orignal in its other respects. I would think, though that for more than $100,000 a buyer would want total originality, or a machine with certifiable history such as one that belonged to Rollie Free or George Bown or such. I wonder how the machine was certified as having left the factory as a White Shadow, and is not just a Black Shadow redone that way to sell at a premium price?
Mark X says
To my knowlege, their was never a designated ‘White Shadow’ model. Their were however, ‘Shadowized’ Rapides on the market that appear for sale from time to time. This is more than likely one of them. I wish it was mine. RideSafe, Mark.
Denis Martyn says
Sorry, Mark. The Vincent Owners Club lists 15 Series C White Shadows as manufactured by the factory. The first in May, 1949; the last in May, 1952. The club’s website also answered my own question about certifying the auctioned machine as a genuine White Shadow…they carried slightly different identification numbers. I didn’t mean to imply in my earlier comment that Bonhams was trying to pull a fast one. It is a very reputable company, and I’m confident it acted responsibly. I just didn’t know how you could tell a White Shadow from any other Vincent. Now I do. Thanks to the VOC. So the next time I run into one of the remaining 14 (yeah, right….) I’ll know just what to look for.
todd says
Denis, that brings up an interesting point: What happens to all the old motorcycles? I always see plenty of shiny new motorcycles but not too many old ones. You would think that with hundreds of thousands (or millions) of bikes made every year the likelihood of seeing an old one would be greater than seeing a new bike. Still, everything I see is less than 5 years old. Do all the old bikes get crushed / parted out etc? Are they all sitting in garages?
An interesting thing with old BMW’s is they are plentiful. Since they cost quite a bit when new they are more likely to live a pampered long life. Bikes like old Hondas sold ten times or more as BMW’s or Laverdas, Guzzis, etc but are even more rare (witness the sand-cast CB’s). They were less valuable when new so they got trashed and thrown out, stunted and wrecked, spray painted and abandoned. I don’t think this is often the case with old Vincents.
-todd
mark says
During a ride a couple of weeks ago I saw a Vincent on the road in rural Vermont, going in the other direction. I did the biggest double-take of my life. Later I mentioned it in a thread on ADVrider and someone else replied that he lives nearby and saw the same bike, plus a SECOND Vincent riding with the first. So they are out there, and apparently they even get ridden occasionally.
Oh, how I’d love to ride one sometime…
Denis Martyn says
Todd, I’m not trying to be funny when I say old motorcycles are where you find them. They’re in garages, in basements, tucked into the back of old storage sheds, etc. It doesn;t take much space to push an old motorcycle out of the way and forget about it, so I’m sure that’s many people do.
A number of years ago I met a fellow who lived in my Father-in-law’s neighborhood. He had an old but complete Harley Davidson Peashooter (Overhead valve, single cylinder, 350cc) motorcycle sitting in his garage. He didn;t ride and neither did anyone else in his family, but he didn’t to sell it, either. He told me it didn’t take up much room, and “it was Grandpa’s motorcyle” so he thought he’d just keep it. Multiple that by tens of thousands and there’s one answer to where all the old motorcycles are. I even knew a guy who bought a Vincent about 12 years ago from the estate of an old man who died, leaving it in his basement. He didn’t pay very much for it, but that’s partly because it needed a lot of work to get it back on the road. Of course, a lot of old bikes were trashed, and are gone… but if you want one, keep looking, and tell everyone you’re looking. Sooner or later spomething will turn up.
Mark X says
Denis, One of my older neighbors has a 1940 80cu Knucklehead in his garage. It is complete, and last ran in 1955. I know another gentleman that has a perfect unrestored 1955 Studabaker convertable in his row house garage in Philadelphia. They are out there. An open eye and a listening ear, is all you need to find them. Eventualy these folks will die, and their treasures will find their way to loving hands. There will soon come a day, when all of the lovely and very expensive Harley-Davidsons that were bought over the last several years, and rarely used, will suddenly come onto the market. Wonderful bargains will be had by all. I can hardly wait. RideSafe, Mark.
lostinoz says
Yes, they ARE out there, the old classics. My first car, a 69 roadrunner had been sitting around untouched since 1974 with a bad clutch, they got sick of it and sold it to me finally in 1990. After that, I made it a point to peek into people’s OPEN garages as I walked past the house in hopes of finding “the next gem in the rough” Ive turned up with a 67 kawasaki A-1 that needed a stator AND a running 68 A-1ss, 2 sand cast hondas, 4 vintage dirt bikes (pre74) that just needed carbs cleaned, 1 ignored all stock 92 FZR 600, and a HD Rapido.
not to mention HOSTS of cb350s 450s and KZ 750s
I write down the addys in a book, come back later (almost criminal in a casing the joint type of way) and if i see the bike STILL not moved, I go knock on the door. “hey I was just passing by and I noticed that old bike kinda buried by the laundry pile, ya interested in selling it? Im looking for a project!” Usually within 20 minutes theyre helping me load it into my truck (borrowed truck i might add) and hopefully signing a title. If not, well its parts!
Denis Martyn says
Lostinoz…
So that’s where all the CB350s went. I remember in the early 70s it seemed as though every other motorcycle on the street was a CB350. Then one day in the early 80s I looked around, and they were gone. They were good little bikes in their day. They would still be a lot of fun to ride, and economical as well. The problem would be finding one that hadn’t been destroyed by a young, poor, inexperienced (weren’t we all at one time) owner. They were cheap enough that when they stopped running, or cost a little too much to repair, they could be pushed out of the way and left to rot. It’s not as though the owner were abandoning a Triumph Bonneville, or a Sportster.. although if memory serves, at the time even they didn’t have all that much value. I’ll have to take up going for garage-examining walks in my neighbood. Who knows maybe someone around here has an old Ducati 900SS he’d like me to take off his hands.
lostinoz says
Denis,
Odd that you mention Dukes, I know EXACTLY where a 74 duke 750 is laying around in a barn, BEGGING to be restored to it’s glory. Unfortunately the guy KNOWS what he has, and refuses to part with it… every once in a while though, I drop by and remind him, if he ever wants to sell it…
Yeah the CB 350s and 360s were fun little bikes, theyre really a dime a dozen now a days, however it will take you that dozen to come up with the title for one, and enough parts to build one “restored” bike out of the garage finds. I recently bought a titled running 360 that was bastardized too much to restore, but is a prime candidate for a cafe for $200! And as far as Harleys goes, well theyre not AS cheap usually, however I bought my v-rod for 1/2 value because it scared the guy and he never rode it again (04, bought in 07 with 400 miles) and a friend recently picked up a sportster (89 i believe) for 1000 cause the dude dropped it in a parking lot in the early 90’s and broke his ankle and never touched it again.
You keep an eye out for those Dukes, Im personally hoping to find a low mileage forgotten Indian 4 with title!
Failing that, I’m looking for that unused Y2K sitting behind some shed in some farmers yard!
todd says
I guess it’s true. My first bike, a 1970 Yamaha 90cc twin 2-stroke, I got for $75 from a guy at church because he heard me say I liked motorcycles. A couple years later I saw a Vespa P200e in a garage under boxes. I gave the guy $500 – it was in perfect condition, 1,500 miles (it was later stolen from me at the train station). Bought a great little XL350 at a garage sale for $100, got a MT125 for $1 from my dad’s girlfriend, various scooters from friends / teachers / family members, picked up my 1973 BMW R75/5 Toaster for $200 when I told someone I liked the bike he was riding. I dragged home three more R75/5’s when a guy at the gas station said he had some bikes like mine. Etc, etc. In my dad’s garage is his original CB400F with 6,000 miles and his dad’s 1956 AJS 18CS, both in perfect shape. He no longer rides but he doesn’t want to get rid of them either.
I can’t remember how many old bikes (and old cars) I’ve had to turn down because I no longer have room or time. Sure they’re out there but I’m surprised people just hang on to them for years on end. I guess I’m no better. It’s tough to sell something for nothing because it needs tires and a battery when a little bit of effort gets a lot more money for it.
I want to invent a divining rod for valuable old motorcycles.
-todd
Mark X says
FACT: It is entirely possible to live very well in America, if you don’t have to have everything brand new. RideSafe, Mark.
Jim says
Todd, one reason that there are many vintage BMW’s out there is that the old bikes were durable and designed to be rebuilt as needed. Add to that the buyer tends to be older and not as likely to abuse the bike. But in my estimation the single biggest reason that there are a lot of old BMWs about is the manufacturer continues to support the old bikes through parts availability, either through the regular parts catalog or via a robust vintage program. New-old-stock parts dealers, replica parts manufacturers and talented garage machinists who create custom parts for antiques and you have fertile ground for keeping the bikes running.
As far as other manufacturers, I think Harley provides similar support, but most of the great European marques are either gone or have had such checkered financial histories that a vintage group was a luxury.
For some reason the Japanese manufactures have not made it a point to provide vintage support.
bobc says
Interesting thread! I bought a 1980 XL250S for $200 in perfect condition that had not been riden in years. All it needed was a coat of wax and to be ridden. It fired up with the old gas still in it. My Tote-Gote I got for $65. My ’69 Johnson snowmobile for $25. Do you think 3/4″ of frozen crud in the float bowl is enough? More? Less? Once clean I hit the gas and it went straight into the garage door. Yes, I fixed the damn door! There out there. Just keep looking.
aichbe says
For what it’s worth, there were a couple of Vincent Black Lightnings here in Texas which were fully road-ready and ridden all over, as well as drag raced. They may have been Shadows, with the lightweight performance parts from Lightning, etc., or original Lightnings which were fitted with lights, either at the factory or after purchase. The photos I saw showed Amal GP’s, not Monoblocs, so…
This was several years back, (60’s or 70’s), and I’m unaware of whatever became of them. Supposedly, they were owned by either a father and son, or two brothers. They’d show up at the drag strip, with one of the bikes tuned for a nitromethane blend, (probably 50% or less), and they started it by putting the two up on the centerstands, back to back, with the rear tires touching, and spin the race bike’s tire with the other bike’s engine, as nitro bikes don’t kick-start very easily, being a known leg-breaker. I heard that these two Vinnies were almost unbeatable by other bikes or cars of the era, especially by anything that was street drivable. I’d sure like to see what one of those new Austrailian 4-valve 1600 cc Irving-Vincents would do on a dragstrip, in a lightweight Kosman-style frame and on a decent load of nitro…
Kelvin Macdonnell says
i have an all metal 1/9 scale model of a Black Shadow built by R.A.E. Looking for more of these kits if anyone has any information, they made @ 7 different British bike models. What are the differences between the Black and White Shadow? Since it is all metal i want to polish the metal engine and not paint it a la the Black Shadow. It wouldn’t be proper to do that to a Black Shadow, but i can do it to the White Shadow. Any help would be appreciated