The Kneeslider

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1936 BMW Schneekrad

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1936 BMW Schneekrad - Snowmobile
1936 BMW Schneekrad - Snowmobile

Just in time for snow season, we have another single track motorcycle for you to consider. If you remember some of the other tracked vehicles we’ve featured here on The Kneeslider, you know there were some interesting examples of engineering, some practical, some not so much, and here’s one that goes back a little ways, it’s a 1936 BMW “Schneekrad” or snowmobile. I ran across this in an old magazine and other than the name and photographer, there’s no other technical information of any sort, perhaps one of you with a good historical book on BMW would have something to share with us.

How it actually turns would be interesting to see and the top of the machine is a little visually confusing from this angle.

This photo is by Kurt Worner, a famous European photographer who passed away some years ago. Any of you BMW experts out there know anything about this?

Related tracked motorcycle articles:
1937 Front Drive Tracked Motorcycle
Hyanide and Baal
Radix and Rogue
Kettenkrad
SnowJob
K-Trak

Comments

  1. Well, with the fairing apparently taken from an old piano / organ found somewhere in the country of bayern or black forest, you can’t even sit on this thing, so no need to make it turn … 😉

  3. Could you imagine opening the barn door and finding this inside? Of course after the war Germany was so starved that no barn was left un tossed. What a shame that so much engineering skill fell under Hitlers control, German engineers led the world.

  4. Note the bisecting lines in the rubber of the tread, and the overhang on each side of the tires: The track not only turned over the wheels at both ends, but “flexed” — and followed the tire contour — as the machine was leaned, allowing it to turn. (Mostly to the left … leans to the right were inhibited by the sidecar.)

    However, it didn’t turn anywhere near like what a period motorcycle did. (There WERE no “snowmobiles” in that period. At least, not that we would recognize as such.) It was an inelegant solution at best, and not many were made. And Germany got it’s

  5. … butt kicked in the snow in Russia, remember? Poland was done before winter came, and 5 guys in t-shirts held them off at Bastogne.

    😉

    BJShredder

  6. I feel like a Ural would be a much simpler, if less ridiculously over-engineered (germany for you), solution to the problem of how to ride a motorcycle in snow. And BJ, I can see how you might turn it once it is leaning, by your explanation, but i dont see how one would initiate a turn. Looks like the bars just pivot the forks around the triple tree, as usual, which seems like it wouldn’t do much to lean the bike, regardless of the tread construction.

  8. And I would like to point out that almost 24 million Russians died in WW2 as compared to the 8 million Germans and 400 thousand US Americans, so it was more like “24 million guys in t-shirts.”

  9. Though I’m sure it wasn’t this machine that was killing the russians, unless they captured them and tried to ride them.

  10. Kneeslider/editor
    It was in the early 70’s someone came out with a track and ski combo that you could mount your motorcycle to.Of course you had to have a way to lift the cycle into the air to remove the front and rear wheel/tires.

  11. “and 5 guys in t-shirts held them off at Bastogne.”

    ‘Nuts!’ to that! 🙂

    Might have to watch that again tonight…

  12. Umm. There weren’t any Russian soldiers at Bastogne in 1944. They were all on the other front.

    This looks like a pre-war bike, anyway.

  13. As for the turning, I agree it appears the flexible track is designed for leaning.

    Someone asked how that would work…probably by leaning. You know…like on a motorcycle. You can still lean without pushing on the handlebars, just shift your weight on the pegs.

  14. Don’t know if anyone noticed but the fairing is there to cover the treads as it loops around, over the bike. The bike basically rides entirely inside the tank treads.

    Pretty darn interesting.

    -todd

  16. @ Joe: as coho pointed out, a Ural is a Russian copy of a BMW.

    @ Jon: motorcycles do not turn from leaning, they turn from counter steering, lean all you want, you’ll still go straight. Keith Code built a No BS bike to prove that with fixed handlebars, it’s very cool. Background here. This is a sidecar rig anyway.

    The tracks on this might have some interesting effect very different than on a regular motorcycle, though, without a visual aid, we’ll be guessing. If the tracks are sufficiently flexible and the sidecar prevents leaning, turning the wheel might almost force the track in the direction of the turn. Where’s a good video when you need one?

    @ richard: please read the links I already included at the end of the post about other tracked motorcycles.

  17. I am fluent in German, and willing to admit that I might be wrong, but I think there is an extra “k” in both “Schneekrad” and “Kettenkrad”. “Rad” is German for wheel, but Is used the same way “Bike” is used in English instead of “Bicycle”. “Kette” is “chain” or “track” in this case and “Schnee” is “snow”. I’m not sure where that extra “K” came from, but if it’s from a text somewhere that is from Germany then I bow to more experienced speakers. I’m pretty sure I’m right though.

  18. I can’t even see where the rider would sit.

    My guess is the rider is in the side car/sled – which is articulated or something, allowing it to steer.

  19. kneeslider, I’ll acknowledge I’m no expert of physics and I definitely concur that countersteering makes riding a motorcycle much more plausible.

    That said, I think a careful reading of countersteer according to Wikipedia is in order. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering Specifically, note the technique referred to as ‘counter-lean’.

    The video you linked to is actually a good example of counterlean (seconds 13-18). It seems your comment “lean all you want, you’ll still go straight” was not entirely accurate. In case that wasn’t clear — the bike does not continue in a straight line. It turns left gradually, and then right.

    It’s hard to tell from the picture, but my assumption was that this snowtrack thing was not designed with turning handlebars. Due to it’s massive heft and track, I also assumed that tight turns and maneuvers are not a realistic possibility — even with the relative grace countersteer affords other types of vehicles.

    As such, it seems to me that leaning (for shallow turns at speed) and using ones feet on the ground might well have been the original means of maneuvering.

  20. I suspect that this thing ran in a straight line on hard-pack and ice, and was steered by leaning when in deep snow. The motorcycle conversion kit was called a “Snow Job” I never personally saw one in action, but did see a film of one running a long time ago. Over the years the snowmobile industry made several efforts to develop a motorcycle-like snowmobile…Kawasaki, Chrysler, Honda, and probably everyone else as well…none of them became successes. Kawasaki’s never made it past R&D, Chrysler (I think it was Chrysler) ended up giving them away as bonus or premium, and Honda’s never left the warehouse. No doubt Polaris, Bombardier, Yamaha and Arctic Cat also tried their hand at it as well.

  22. Notice the difference in angle between the surfaces of the front fender and the cover over the “tank.” The front wheel is already turned towards the right. Going off that, I’d say it probably steers similar to a conventional motorcycle. Now whether it steers well at all is another story. Just my two cents.

  23. Sure its not the Eric Buell Racing Inc entry in the 2011 sled dog racing series? No visible dogs but new startup companies will get special exceptions granted. If they want real dogs Buell can build them.

  24. That’s a great find Paul ….. thanks for that one and all the others.

    And Merry Christmas to you !

    Heheh … wordcaptcha = venture Uhler

  26. if you lean a bike going straight ahead without countersteering, of course it will turn. the front and rear tyres are different sizes, so when it is leaned the front and rear are not on the same track, so it must turn. Yes?

  27. in response to Marneyman, the k in schneekrad could be a marketing driven coining of a new work to describe the looks of the bike. schneck is the word for snail, which it kind of looks like, with the track and the round track cover on top. so this would be some sort of a snow snail bike.
    maybe there is another track on the side car and the thing steers like a caterpillar tractor with clutches and brakes.

  28. back again. my bad. the “k” stands for kraft which means power. so here we have a snow power wheel(or bike). usually you see motorrad but some vehicles use the kraft designation such as trucks. these are known as LKWs, or last(cargo) kraft(power) wagens.

  29. If you look just over the hood, through the spokes of the front wheel and just behind the bike, and as well, you can see that the bike has a sidecar attached.

    The bike, of course is a BMW R12. What is very difficult to see is how the tread is routed. Given the strange “fairings” it would seem that it is somehow routed over the top of the bike.

  30. What’s the German wording for “Ski Dog”?

    Yeah, I know, this German design is sooooo brilliant and elegant that it overshoots my sub-human Slavic brain.

    Lean to turn? I doubt this thing would’ve made 5 mph off a K-liff. Cool steam-punk, though.

  33. @ kneeslider:

    You wrote:
    @ Jon: motorcycles do not turn from leaning, they turn from counter steering, lean all you want, you’ll still go straight. Keith Code built a No BS bike to prove that with fixed handlebars, it’s very cool. Background here. This is a sidecar rig anyway.

    Come on. I’ve been reading this site for a long time, and I KNOW you’re smarter than that. Counter-steering plus leaning make you turn at high speeds. Countersteering makes leaning, at high speeds, more effective and, in face, keep you from wrecking. Leaning, however, does turn you.
    Forget Keith Code. His experiment is flawed. You call something “No BS” and people take your word for it.

    Let’s try a simple examble. Try to maneuver your bike walking it around the cars in your driveway, just turning the handlebar. Now try the same thing, but leaning it as you do it. See how much tighter it turns?

    Leaning by itself makes for a very slow turn. Leaning plus steering (at low speeds) and countersteering (anything over like 10 mph or so, I’d say) makes for a quicker turn.
    A modern tire, as you lean, is like a cone on its side, wanting to turn as its rolled.

  34. @ H W Pfabe: we’re not in disagreement, just talking about 2 different things, leaning rider, not leaning bike, the action the rider applies to the bike, shifting weight has very little affect, as you say, a very slow turn, counter steering, even a tiny amount, immediately affects the bike leaning it into the turn. That’s what his video shows.

    Try another (really cool) experiment, get a bicycle wheel and replace the axle with a long rod you can hold with your hands. With a stationary wheel held in front of you, the wheel turns exactly as you move your hands, move your right hand forward and the wheel turns to the left. Now have someone spin the wheel in the forward direction, top of the wheel spinning away from you. Push your right hand forward, what will happen is that the wheel will tilt over to the right, that’s gyroscopic precession, the reaction to the force exerted on the wheel shows up ahead (in the direction of the spin) of where it was applied. That’s why, in this case, a push right, yields a turn right with the bike leaning to the right, not from the rider leaning.

    Tony Foale covers this very well in Motorcycle Handling and Chassis Design, chapter 4 and the associated appendix.

    Again, since this is a sidecar rig at slow speeds, it doesn’t matter anyway.

  35. Thanks Bruce and Ola. That “K” in there just really threw me. It would probably help if I still got to speak German every day. Not bloody likely in Houston.

  37. Looks kool!
    Luv to see ut run.
    Anybody handy out there?????
    Might run like the Radix & Rogue.
    I like the ,Snow Hawk 800.

  39. I could be mistaken, but further examination of the picture seems to reveal that, just like a tank, the rear “wheel” is actually a drive sproket and the front provides track return and steering. Looking at the lines of the motorcycle’s frame seem to back this up as they lead right down to what has replaced the normal rear wheel.

    As an experiment and knowing the Germans like I do, the track was probably flexible to the left and the right to allow steering. As others have posted earlier, it was most likely not a maneuverable vehicle. Probably prone to throwing its track and just generally not being what the designers needed despite their intent.

    Further, the wheel behind the vehicle does not belong to the Schneekrad unless it is mounted as a spare for the front. It is too high in the photograph to be a sidecar rig for the Schneekrad. The handlebars are clearly visible (clutch level with outside pivot) and the seat can be seen inboard of the “spare” wheel (it obscures the wheel’s spokes). Everything else on the top half of the thing is simple sheet metal fairing (for looks and/or to slow the accumulation of packed snow and ice in the workings). There is also a wind shield of sorts.