Bob Horn’s EXperimental500 recumbent racer had its first appearance on the Road Warriors segment of Discovery Canada’s Daily Planet TV show. It’s not a complex technical discussion or really extensive report, but Bob had the opportunity to talk about the racer and show some of the details plus you get to see a bit of action on the track and viewers who would not otherwise have known about this project had the opportunity to see someone who had an idea and then built it.
Unfortunately, Bob had a nasty accident on the track this past week and, though the racer didn’t sustain too much damage, he’ll be off his feet for quite a while. Best wishes for a speedy recovery, Bob!
Link: Daily Planet Road Warriors segment
Link: Rohorn
David Duarte says
hope he’s back on his feet and on two wheels again soon!
Josh says
Best wishes to Bob..! It’s a really cool machine. Hope he’ll be racing it again soon.. 🙂
Pete says
I don’t really get recumbents. If you race you will crash. I would not want to crash in that thing. Best wishes for a full recovery.
Bob Horn says
I didn’t get them for a very long time, either. Crashing is, indeed, inevitable! If it weren’t for a “Safety peg” collapsing well after sliding off the track, the latest mishap would have been injury free (Other than my foot, there was just 1 small scrape on my hand – that’s it – not even a scratch on my helmet). And a big “Thank You” to you and everyone else!
Thomas lewis says
This is what the industry as a whole should be doing,it seems the DIY crowd is moving the technology forward,while the industry just collects the checks.I see little in the way of new designs,technology,a few tilters[Yamaha,Piaggio etc] a few electrics,,but not much else.
Bob says
Thanks!
There is a brutally high level of emotional laziness and intellectual bankruptcy in the motorcycle world at all levels (I.e., Design/marketing departments, racing management, and dominant media outlets) right now. It seems everything is reheated leftovers and style exhumation at some level or another. It seems that job preservation and access is more important in this business than taking any risk by doing any forward leaning work.
That’s what is so fun about being independent – I don’t have to answer to some stuck-in-a-rut spineless corporate tapeworm segment – or worry what a bunch of backwards gazing artificially credentialed self adoring fashion hucksters think.
Thanks for the opportunity to write a rant that I’m sorry I think that needs to be made. It is a lot shorter than it was a few minutes before I hit the POST COMMENT button…
Andyj says
Couldn’t of said that any better Bob.
Hoping your foot is sorted now.
Being a lifelong biker and engineer I’m very disillusioned.
Motor cycle frame design has one major remit and that is torsional strength. The front end has not improved since the early 50’s. Frames since the 70’s~80’s when an English engineer was seconded to design a racing bike frame for Honda. He surmised the two points of structural interest was a simple beam frame from headstock to swing arm and a centralised rear suspension.
The headstock is a stupid idea because it is the cause of the weakest link on torsion. Forks multiply this problem. Hence I still possess my BMW R1100GS.
To see bikes made for gimmickry year over year is saddening. The rider is very much an afterthought.
Craig Vetter made a valid point comparing economy, price and performance with cars over the decades. What is going on is like a death wish now cars have completely overtaken them on every count. Few bikes even have a seat that can be called comfortable for longer runs. An funny joke played on blindly accepting people.
Sarge says
I tour long distance on an Easy Racer Javelin recumbent bicycle,
The recumbent, with its’ low center of gravity and reduce frontal area has a natural advantage over conventional up right motorcycle or bicycles.
Had it not be for the ban of recumbent bicycles from road racing in the early part of the Last century we would now look at standard bicycle with the same quirkiness that we look at Penny-Farthings now.
The streamlined salt flat high speed motorcycle embrace the basic lines of the recumbent,
Time to start racing them as a class of Motorcycles.
Paul Blezard says
Well said Sarge! Couldn’t agree more! And I said as much back in 1988 on Top Gear, when I wrote and presented this 5 minute segment all about Feet First motorcycles starting with the Wilkinson of 1909 and also showing the Neracar, Avro Monocar, NSU record breakers, Norton Kneeler, Difazio-Creasey Flying Banana prototype Voyager and several Quasars…..before moving on to the Peraves Oekomobile/Ecomobile for the second 5 minutes…..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foAgByo_txA
WillyP says
Nice, love to see people thinking outside the box! Though I’m not quite ready to turn my Concours into a recumbent just yet, I am in awe of your accomplishing so much with limited facilities. Do you think a loop of steel tubing around the pegs would have saved your foot? Kind of like the the tip bars used on street bikes?
Bob Horn says
Hey, those are perfectly good bikes – I wouldn’t cut it up, either! Well, now that I think about it….
Stronger pegs would have worked just fine. They worked the first time, but at probably half the speed. And the mounts held up well. That said, some sort of slide AND impact structure are an integral feature of the next one. And some tubular structure will probably be added to this one as well – as long as it can’t snag or wedge anything like rider’s ankles, or fold up and make matters even worse.
The potential for vastly increased safety without interfering the experience at all is definitely there…
Thanks!
John Keegan says
Take the salt flats racer a little further but w/o the bodywork. Integrate a full roll cage utilizing all carbon-fiber/composite frame. Less weight, more protection, still open-air experience and just as close to a “real motorcycle” as the current vehicle. Just have to learn a differnet set of fabrication skills with the new material.
Dr Robert Harms says
Excellent —-I practically like the fact that he spent the time proving out the design rather than going to 5 axis CNC pretty at the beginning. Like chrome “pretty” don’t get you home
Mike Lewis says
A long wheel base requires steeper lean angle to execute a turn than does a shorter wheelbase bike. About 40 years ago I went riding with a friend, me on my UJM and he on his Harley chopper with extended front end. I was very surprised to see the lean angles he had to do just to go around a turn, and not going fast. I realize that is an extreme example, but the concept is valid. It is just physics, and you can yell at physics but you can’t argue with physics.
Bob Horn says
Hey, physics is our friend, even though it is highly misunderstood, misused, and misquoted.
Thanks to physics, one can perform the math on my racer as it pertains to racetracks: The track I run on (High Plains Raceway – I LOVE that place!) has turn radii between 75 – 450 feet. With turn radius > 10x(wheelbase), the difference in lean angle between wheelbases effectively becomes nil – and the lean angle becomes purely a funtion of turn radius and speed (Plus the effect of the rider’s hanging off technique – the lower the rider, the greater the effect – simple trig, that).
It also means that my racer it isn’t much fun (But still fun enough) to ride around the pits, or, to the occasional amusement of my neighbors, my neighborhood – but considering the focus of its mission, that isn’t really a problem. Nevermind the absurd differences in steering geometry, weight distribution, chassis stiffness, rider ergonomics, and tire configuration between all choppers and my racer.
That said, the longer wheelbase sure does nothing to help the lean angle, either. But that’s why it is getting the rear wheel steering system that the racer was initially designed forward of before its next racing season. I’ve done a lot of 2 wheel steering system experiments – that system does very interesting things to the lean angle – it is even better than a hypothetical racing unicycle.
Jim Walker says
Hi Bob, happy new year and I hope your recovery is progressing well.
It’s fantastic that you have been able to take your recumbent racing, you must be in uncharted territory a lot of the time. Such as adopting two wheel steering – awesome!
Are there any details you can share on the two wheel steering system you plan to install?
Setting up a bike wheel to steer as well as transmit driver is going to be challenging, or maybe I’m over thinking the concept.
Either way, good luck, and all the best for a speedy recovery
JakobusVdL
Bob Horn says
Happy New Year, Jim! And thanks – I’m walking & working again, which is good!
Not to be vague or frustrating, but I’d rather keep the details confidential until they are proven on the track. That said, I’m very optimistic about how it will work, but lower lap times and better results would make it far easier to explain.
What I can confidently share is:
Rear steering geometry (Rake & trail, caster angle and offset, etc…) is just as important as front end geometry, if not more so. Getting speed wobbles at the rear end (Of the bike) is both weird and scary – and yes – I’ve experienced that on test bikes! The other dynamic concern is having steering forces (I.e., feedback) from the rear wheel interfering with the front. That also means some changes have to be made to the front end geometry to prevent it from being “misled” by the rear end. The closest analogy I can think of is the difference in design considerations between flying wings and conventional tailed aircraft.
If all goes well, the bike, with the new improved rear suspension (But same old graphics), will get loaded into the Rat Van and head out to the track late summer/early fall 2015. That’s several months later than planned, but I’m still excited about testing it. It’ll still be overweight, under powered, and under tired, but it should go faster, be a lot more fun to ride, and best of all, provide the motivation, experience, and confidence to build a vastly faster/more fun/better looking “Next racer”.
A big “Happy 2015!” for Paul and The Kneeslider’s readers/doers as well!
Jim Walker says
Jeeez, sounds like I was underestimating the complexity not over estimating it!
Its fair enough that you want to keep your concepts to yourself, though I suspect there are not too many out there waiting to usurp you – most still seem to be stuck on the idea that it is even possible to race a recumbent ;-).
I recall reading that in cars with four wheel steering, honda and porsche wound up with systems where the rear steers in the opposite direction at low speed, and in the same direction at high speed. I’m not sure I can imagine how same direction steer would feel on a heeled over bike – I think speed wobbles of the rear end ( not the bike) would ensue!
Good luck bob, glad to hear that you are mobile and working again, I’ll look forward to further progress reports. Jim