Off Road Dual Sportster
When Doug wrote the other day about what Harley might develop to attract some younger riders, he thought a few Sportster based model variations would be a good place to start. In one of the comments, Todd pointed to some off road machines with Sportster power, sort of a "Dual-Sportster," probably not what most of us were thinking, but, do they look like fun? You betcha. Sometimes the best ideas are a little outside the box.
Off Road Dual Sportster - knobbies for fun
There's also this Baja Harley built a few years ago by Jim Stanton. Using a custom frame and YZ 400 forks, some pieces from an ATK and a Sportster V-Twin. It certainly looks the part and reports from Jim say it's a keeper.
Baja Harley Sportster
A couple of years ago I wrote about the Sportrack LB12, a Supermotard with 1200 Sportster power and it looks interesting, too.
Sportrack LB12 Harley Sportster powered supermotard
Harley Davidson hasn't been in the off road or dual sport market for quite a while and some guys might look at these Sportster derivatives and think how easy they could blow them away with the latest Honda or Kawasaki. Maybe so, but that's not what these are all about, these are a fun way to do something different, a creative way to exercise a little engineering skill and a sure way not to get lost in a sea of Japanese MX bikes. I like them, how about you?
Kickboxer Subaru WRX Powered Motorcycle Concept
{ 42 comments… add yours below ... }
I have been looking for a pic of that orange bike for years. I love that thing!!
In my view, these are easily a thousand times better than the “More chrome, tribal paint, way fat back tire, rigid frame” customs. These, the cafe’ customs in a previous post, and the Sputhe “Aluminum Steamroller” (look for a Cycle World article from 1980), inspire me to customize my own bikes to suit me.
The Baja and flat track caught my attention and I’m 32 so this seems a better option than a cafe racer like my dads! The flat track also seems to have some legitimate heritage without looking like an antique. Here in the UK we almost always know the power or power to weight of our bikes but not the torque. In these guises the engine would be up against other things that are tuned for torque not power so the output wouldn’t seem so laughable. 45hp from a sportster puts it in line with bikes like the Yam xt660 so this seems like a more level playing field.
Marvin, Are Sportsters detuned in the UK? Here in the colonys a 1200 Sporty has 55HP and 79 LBs of Torque at 4,000 RPM stock, which most are not!!! Remember, people may buy on HP. but they ride on Torque. If you can get rid of 100LBs on a Sporster,it would be a good adventure bike. Replace the heavy Metal with Plastic, Install Alum rims and bars,bigger semi nobbie tyres,and your good to go.
pretty cool offroaders, though i feel like even an 883 engine would suffer in a market where most of the bikes are 450cc or smaller, and only a few are as big as 650. They might have a much better go of it if they were to chop their sportster engines in half and set them up as 450 and 600cc singles. Some of the poser Harley enthusiasts might say that not having a v-twin would be denying their heritage and blah de blah, but just cuz they haven’t done it recently (with a REAL harley, not a buell) doesn’t mean they haven’t done it. Chop the engine in half, pare down the tranny, replace all the body work with plastic, throw it into an off-road chassis, give it a big round headlight for good measure, and you’re good to go.
Those are pretty wild! I like them. I would like to see less of the stock bodywork on the first two, though.
Just what I want, a 500+ pound dirt bike. If it’s going to be that heavy, at least give me 100hp like a BMW R1200GS. It might be something interesting to make if you happen to already have a Sportster laying around, but as a new purchase for adventure or off-road riding? Nah.
I like the idea. Thats why I bought the Ulysses. Granted that it is not really the true off roader that we’re talking about here. It does what it’s supposed too. But if H-D was building a Scrambler 1200 ie… http://www.raptorsandrockets.com/images/Harley-Davidson/Harley_883_Scrambler_rr.jpg ….. I could have done with out the small fuel capacity and the hidden rear cylinder between the frame. Other than those little issues, I love my Buell. But a Scrambler with a Buell 1203 would be freakin sweet.
Interesting ideas!
I especially like the Sportrack. I’ve no idea how competitive it would be, but it looks extremely aggressive and purposeful.
I don’t get it. Harley keeps themselves corralled by their \heritage\ yet they ignore the countless desert racing, road racing cafe racer builds made by privateers from the late 60’s on. Heritage? What about the XR750? And, yes I understand they have the XR1200 but that is a 1975 Thunderbird compared to the 750’s 1955 T-bird. A 750cc v-twin platform for an off-road, enduro, supermoto or cafe bike would sell and keep them from becoming the Buick of motorcycles.
That Baja Sportster looks an awful lot like the Track800 diesel.
Not saying “copy” (especially since the Sportster came first), just saying “similar”.
I think some of the criticisms of these bikes as being too heavy/underpowered are off the mark. Sure these bikes probabaly would not beat a modern YZ450F in an off-road race but the point of these bikes isn’t to raise the bar on dirtbike performance, it’s to 1. build the thing, which is fun, and 2. ride that unlikely machine in the dirt, which is even more fun.
That orange bike is a beauty !
One thing though, he’s got the forks pulled way up in the triple clamps to sharpen the steering, but I hope he’s also limited the travel so the tire doesn’t bottom out on the clamps/fender. A flying W just waiting to happen. Ouch !
Those old fork internals were really simple: he could have dropped the front end by shortening the springs and adding a second top-out spring (or a spacer). Shortening the damper rods and the springs would be more sano, but would require new damper rods if he wanted to restore all the travel sometime. I don’t want to sound like a know-it-all but I’ve seen pictures of several bikes with questionable (and dangerous) fork mods.
Sportsters, because of their simplicity are great for modding into just about anything: chopper, bobber dirtbike, cafe racer, street tracker, etc.
Nice work from all these builders.
Isn’t it interesting that the original XLCH, the bike most know as the first “true” Sportster (with the peanut tank and small fenders and all) was actually intended to be just this; a sort of duel purpose bike? Seems to me like these Sportys are going back to their roots.
#2 would be the sh1t, IMO. I don’t even like Harley, but that would turn my head and make me consider it, strongly.
Captcha: ‘doc resinous’!
these efforts are great. I have owned over 60 motorcycles in my life and I remember the first time I rode a sportster on a heavily pea graveled road. What a treat compared to the BMW’s, Japanese, and British bikes I had owned. Later I took that Sportster off into the fire roads and it worked quite well although they weren’t very challenginig roads. Sure they are heavy but the point is you can have fun changing that. Heck my 124\ TC drag bike that is street legal is trimmed down to 502 full of fluids, So how light can a Sportster be if you build it. So many people forget the real fun in motorcyling is that they are the ultimate toy ready for you to play with (build).
I guess I just don’t get it. There are so many lightweight and powerfull engines that can be adapted to dirt use, so why would you use the equivalent of an American made anvil to power your dirt bike? why? Lets see a Kawasaki H1 powered dirt bike with low rpm tuned expansion chambers! RZ350? Honda NT650 Hawk with extended custom swingarm and front end off of a modern 450? Now that’s a dual sport.
Slider, Yep you just dont get it. An American Anvil is just what I want in an Adventure bike. A Kow triple was a bear to keep in tune on the street, can you picture 3 carbs in the dirt? An RZ 350 made great power but again WAY over complicated. A 650 Hawk, I dont know what that is, Maybe a Honda V-Twin? Or an inline 4? Pull up a Fire road on a Dual Sporty and let the games begin, Torque Rules!
Personally …. I like an off the wall bike that is good for riding dirt roads.
I’d love to take any of these 4 for a good thrashing around some hill country backroads.
I’ve seen a sow’s ear, now where is the silk purse.
That first picture finally answers the question of what ever happend to my stolen ‘82 Can-Am 250 Qualifier that was stolen all those years ago. Frankenbiked into that abortion? God help me.
frozen prairie and others, the original question was about attracting younger buyers to HD — buying new stuff — not whether it’s fun to build a Sportster-derived custom yourself. If that were the point, then HD could just sell bare engines. If you’re out to attract buyers, then you have to have something that, off the shelf, appeals to enough buyers to make it profitable, not just a rather eccentric subset of gearhead DIYers.
Oh, and since HD products are never price leaders (though their inflated sense of self-worth seems to be coming around to something more aligned with reality) a target buyer who hasn’t drunk the HD cool-aid is very likely to think, \Yeah, but for that price I could get ______________.\ Choose all that apply: A) something more powerful; B) something lighter; C) something more reliable; D) something that doesn’t make me look like an old fart.
The first one looks good, though as others have pointed out it’d suffer against modern dirt bikes off road because of the weight. As long as you didn’t expect too much, it’d be ok.
My once stock sportster worked just fine on dirt roads, not surprising considering its ancestry, and I often wondered why the factory didn’t come out with a dual sport version. It’s good to see that idea taken even further.
How is an RZ350 \WAY over complicated\? Not the one I had. Simpler motor than a four-stroke V-twin. Remember, extra weight complicates the picture when off road. And, RZs on the pipe, will pull.
Otherwise, I agree with Al, I thought having fun in the dirt meant being able to fly in the dirt – not lumber along like Ewan and Charlie on the Bavarian buffaloes or with the bikes shown above. Dirt bikes are dirt bikes. Why do the Alaska Highway on a 1200GS when you could do it on a 690 enduro? So-called ‘adventure bikes’, with the debatable exception of KTM, are overkill. The very name is an advertising coup for the manufacturers. Riders never had adventures before? I’ve ridden cbr600s offroad – that was fun. The same goes for the terms ’sportbike’ or ‘cruiser’. All bikes are sport bikes, any bike can cruise. In fact, that’s what they’re doing most of the time according to an article in BIKE magazine from Britain. They did a test where they placed throttle recorders on modern litrebikes and turns out that most of time experienced, sport-minded riders were using a fraction of the potential. Recent litrebikes, say a 2007 R1, will go 100 miles/hour in first gear. Alternately, I see government workers commuting through my city on what look like two-wheeled Humvees. Some people are just brand loyalists. Like the Beemer folks who ride with the erroneous assumption that they’ve got the best engineering known, but it’s just a badge thing, a conspicuous consumption thing. We live in an age of hubris, where gigantism is one of the norms. The Triumph Rocket 3, the new VMax or B-King, the Boss Hoss, VN2000, etc.
For more real adventure, check out the guy who rode a 50cc scooter from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego? Or Dr. Frazier’s travels all over the world? http://motorcycle.motorcycle-usa.com/search?w=frazier
I wouldn’t call an RZ350 too complicated. One of those would probably be much better off road than my old XL350 ever was. Light and simple is good for offroad and, God, I’d love to have myself an RZ350 on OR off road. Actually Yamaha did a TDR250 on/off road bike that was never available here in the US. It was supposedly a great bike, based on the road racer TZR.
I think Harley would do best to target the scrambler style more than the pure off-road. Consider that its only competition would be the Triumph version. Great bike and perfectly the type of bike the sportster could be. That said, I’ve seen (and heard) a number of Harley powered quads rip-roaring around the off-road parks. Maybe they should do ATVs and personal watercraft?
-todd
Dont get me wrong I have owned and enjoyed an RZ350, But it is a complicated little bugger. Water cooling, Twin carbs, and variable intake tuning that even now is a pain to keep working. If you want a simple Yami just go back to a RD 350, fab a single carb intake, single exhaust tuned for torque and your off to the races. Or just put a 2 into 1 light weight pipe on the Sportster like in the pictures, and you have a reliable Scrambler. There are a number of High Pipes available for the Sporty, also shocks and forks of every description, The biggest problem would be relacing the rear hub for a bigger rim to fit Daul Sport tires.
It really was not my intention to suggest Harley should build something like this, although it might not be a bad idea, I wanted to highlight what these builders had done because I think it reflects some creative thinking resulting in bikes that look like a lot of fun. If someone demands top of the line off road performance, as I indicated above, you can choose any purpose built Japanese bike you like, but of course, you then have nothing special. So, in answer to Al and others, yes, that “eccentric subset of gearhead DIYers” is exactly who would build and enjoy something like these bikes.
Instead of a factory model, maybe HD could offer an off road kit, even if it was something straightforward like the second Sportster, with high pipes, knobby tires and different bodywork. Not everyone needs the latest championship level bike, because we’re not all racing for trophies, some of us ride and wrench on our bikes for pure satisfaction.
Could HD make a Sportster based adventure bike or scrambler? Yes. Would they? Who knows. If they did I think it would be along the lines of the XR1200, basically a somewhat functional overweight poser. I just don’t think HD would go to the trouble of developing a lightweight version of their rubber mounted frame, or lightweight components. Buell has shown what are probably the commercial limits of what can be done with the Sportster engine – is it worthwhile for HD to develop another variation of this?
I have a 2003 XL883R with a stage 3 1200cc conversion. It’s quick enough – low 12’s at Inyokern drag strip (RIP), and handles well enough to easily stay with my Ducati riding buddies on mountian rides, It’s a fun old time Sunday two up ride. Does it “compete” in performance with modern bikes? Not really, especially if you look at narrow categories of performance. And it’s best to “ride the torque” as vibration is ugly above 4000rpm. Overall though it’s not bad. I’ve done 500 mile days and what amounts to light dualsport days. In 15,000 miles I’ve had to repair just one thing – a broken weld on the belt guard, and that took me all of 1 hour. This is in contrast to my Ducati Multistrada, a “high performace do it all machine” that drove me crazy in the 15,000 miles I owned it.
For those (and a couple have posted here) where sheer performance is everything and they simply can’t understand why anyone would think differently, well, they have plently of new bikes to pick from – KTM 950SE, Ducati Street Fighter, Busa, ZX1400 and so on. Why even comment on such as this (especially without direct experience)? I sometimes wonder what this performance only type personality thinks about people who fiddle around with old english singles! Go find a find a historical RZ350/RZ500/H1/H2/ (good luck) and commence to alter and butcher.
For those that like the look, sound, and torque of an old timey America V-twin, and don’t mind some rough edges there are scads of solid frame Sportsters around that can be picked up for a few K. It’s easy to find find or fab body and frame parts, the engnes are simple and cheap to improve. There’s lots of info and examples. In the end you might have more fun than you expected.
And thanks Kneeslider for another interesting article.
That first orange bike is freaking awesome. I wonder what it weighs in at?
hey kneeslider, HD offered those pipes (2nd bikes w/ trapp exh), a tank and seat change all in kit form in the early ninties trying to get people to turn the street models into the 883/XR750 style that was the 883 dirt track class but the public didn’t buy them. Most people probably didn’t even know there was flat tracks (probably 80% of the riders still don’t) I saw several bikes that were setup by dealers that were left overs (i’m thinking like ‘93) and even though people were waiting for bikes they wouldn’t buy them. Sometimes the companies don’t wait long enough for the public to catch up to them. Such was the case with the GB500 Honda. I hadn’t walked into a Honda shop in years and it was discontinued 2 years before I did. I would have bought a new one.
Haha, looks like tons of scary fun !
The first one remind me of a Maico arm stretcher.
But, no offense but when the “sea” of enduro/adventure/supermotard bikes comes from Europe, not Japan.
(KTM, BMW, Husqvarna, Husaberg, Aprilia, Gas Gas, CCM, Vermati, Vor, Beta, Scorpa etc etc etc)
Best
Full circle. The Sportster was originally built as a desert racer, hence the small gas tank, in 1957. It came stock with block tread on-off road tires and a high exhaust pipe for the first few years. It was only when the Sportster proved too heavy to compete against the Brit 650cc twins in the desert races that Harley focussed on turning the Sportster into a street bike. It was the fastest stock production street bike available at that time.
Somewhere along the way the Sportster got confused with Harleys big twins and got regarded as a cruiser. But the Sport in Sportster was originally off-road Sport and dual-Sport.
Great to see it come back full circle. They are a hoot to ride on dirt roads, like the outback cattle truck roads here in Australia.
I think the Dyna could use a ‘Sport’ model again ( so could the regular Sportster actually). The Dyna Sport / FXDX was pretty much the ideal all rounder when you include highways.
What would be really cool would be an FXDX updated like the Sportster was through the XR1200. Not the same look, but a modern reinterpretation of the Dyna. I’d be very interested in that.
@Hooper – HD isn’t even pretending anymore either. There isn’t a standard Sportster in the lineup. All of them are targeted at cruiser types or girls. All are meant to be a stepping stone onto a Big Twin. It’s an HD trainer now. The XR1200 is supposed to make up for this I guess. The odd thing is that HD doesn’t even provide a ‘Sport’ package from the factory. That wouldn’t be much of a concession would it?
Fireworks, there was a Sportster Sport a few years back. It’s gone because there was little interest, and because they introduced it at the wrong time.
http://vicente-design.com/neo-retro-classic-projects/about-sportster-harley-davidson/nightster-scrambler/
Check this link for a more reliable HD Scrambler. I guess this is something interesting for the Harley’s managers. It’s not something for serious off road but nearer to possible HD clients.
what happened to the motorcycle rider who loves motorcycles? it really is kinda sad and annoying when people can’t see the effort and joy spent creating something from an idea, desire and parts. we should applaud the accomplishment and follow our OWN dream. i mean it’s someone’s idea come to fruition, hey…they did it! that rocks in my book! it has become way to easy to bash our fellow human’s passions. cheers to the doers!
@Fireworks err I really don’t think the Nightster or Iron 883 are set up to be mini big twins, I think good ol Harley has learned there lesson on that one, check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcbPZqCu06E&feature=player_embedded that sure looks sporty to me, and from what i understand aside from a new tailpipe (to stop him from burning his leg) and air cleaner that’s from a stock motor! (frame on the other hand) i could be wrong but…
it’s still awesome.
These are great! I especially like the first orange one. Does anybody else remember that TV series back inthe sixties…”Then Came Bronson?” Used to be my favorite show as a kid. He rode his sportster all over the country, rode it off road as well, and occassionlly entered hill climbs and desert races. And a lot of times he won. LoL That’s Hollywood for you. Engine trasplants are great! Some that I have done…Yamaha 90cc in a Kawasaki Coyote minibike, Yamaha 90cc in an Indian 50, Kawasaki 238 Greenstreak motor in an Indian 100, Honda XL125 engine in an XR75, Kawasaki H1 500 engine in an RZ350 (drag bike), and just recently a Lifan 200cc (Chinese XR clone) into a 1971 Honda SL-100. Now that is a fun bike!
After seeing here the GSXR-based dirtbike and the Ducati Monster-based desert racer, I’m not surprised by anything, I guess, so why not a HD offroader …
The HD powerplant is apparently f-ing heavy for an off-road bike, but it’s willingness to give away some torque at low rpm can probably be enojyed on difficult terrains …
Does anyone have any details on the second picture? The orange Sportster? The shocks? Fork gators? I live n a rural area with a zillion dirt roads and that would be perfect. Don’t even ask me about a Buell Ulyssis. It looks like too much engine stuffed into too small a frame. Yes, I have a 1983 Honda XL250s but would like a little more power.
The Kneeslider does not endorse nor imply agreement with any particular comment just because we let it stand, but, you already knew that.
Comments should be closely related to post content. Personal attacks, personal grievances and profanity will be removed. Please read the entire post and check for included links before commenting or asking questions. We're looking for your interesting thoughts and ideas that add to the conversation. Thank you.