HD Sportster - Before CB750 and After
May 2nd, 2008 by Paul Crowe - "The Kneeslider"
A great example of how the Honda CB750 changed everything is how the Harley Davidson Sportster was perceived by magazine reviewers before the Honda’s introduction and after. While doing a little research for the Honda article I came across reviews of both the 1968 Sportster and also a 1970 model. The Honda wasn’t mentioned by name but the effect on perceptions was clear.
The 1968 Sportster developed 58 horsepower, ran the 1/4 mile in 13.68 and managed 114 mph in stock trim. This was the musclebike of the day and as the review said, “… what this shorthaul superbike does best is to carry a knowledgeable rider over a road course as rapidly as possible.” This was the top of the heap in those days, if you showed up on a Sportster, everyone knew who had the hot bike.
The next year the Honda CB750 was unveiled and things changed. The big (for Honda) 750cc machine had 10 more horsepower than the Harley, a quicker 1/4 mile and higher top speed. It was civilized and refined in ways the Sportster didn’t pretend to be, so what changed?
The 1970 Sportster was reviewed and now “seniority was a disadvantage” but “Harley’s hottest had the advantage of yearly refinement.” Now it was “the original TT bike. The TT stands for Tavern to Tavern.” The refined Sportster now had 2 less horsepower at 56 and ran the 1/4 mile in 14.25 seconds, almost a half second slower than the ‘68 with an all out top speed of 112 mph, a loss of 2 mph from the ‘68. Most telling of all though was the reviewer’s words describing how the Sportster was “in a league by himself - a stud machine for studs. He doesn’t make much pretense about being functional.”
The Sportster went from performance king to non functional bar hopper in just over a year, it hardly changed at all, really, but the world around it changed dramatically. It would have been interesting if Harley Davidson had taken up the challenge and pushed performance, at least in the Sportster line, instead of falling back on tradition and image. What might have been?
Further thoughts: In more recent times, many Harley Davidson fans are fond of asking “What’s the rush?” when seeing someone on a high performance motorcycle, it’s great verbal defense when anyone comments on the lack of performance from the average Harley. Now, it’s all about the ride, the tradition and the image, but as hard as it may be to believe, it wasn’t always that way. Before the Honda knocked the Sportster off its high performance perch, Harley ads touted the “Harley Davidson Out Performers” and performance was a big part of their advertising but like a prize fighter with a glass jaw, one good shot and the Sportster was down for the count. They could have easily picked themselves up and built up the Harley but, instead, they just walked away from the competition. There was plenty of room for a high performance Harley among all of the other touring bikes but now, after shunning performance all of these years, that crowd has moved on and getting them back is a tough sell. The V-Rod sells poorly and the Harley crowd treats it like an outcast rather than as the high performance Harley it is. The XR1200 has some aspirations of performance and Harley isn’t offering it in the U.S. As I asked above, what might have been? What do you think?
Related: When the HD Sportster was the Fastest Motorcycle
Related: Honda CB750 - It Really Changed Everything
Posted in American Motorcycles, Motorcycle Business, Vintage Motorcycles
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25 Responses to “HD Sportster - Before CB750 and After”
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May 2nd, 2008 at 1:21 pm
I dunno what to tell you, Paul - I ride a Buell.
As for H-D performance: I liked the looks of the VRSCR Street Rod but not much else about it, including ergonomics and the price. Now it’s discontinued and my local dealership has a beautiful yellow 2006 model sitting on the floor. Apparently they can’t give it away. But I don’t dare look at it again as the staff seem to think that V-Rods were created as a way to get Buell riders to “move up!”
Meanwhile, they stock no Buell apparel or gear on the sales floor but have the now-usual assortment of “baby doll” shirts and similar merchandise.
H-D has some interesting challenges in future with their marketing, that’s for certain. I love my Buell, but I’m much more comfortable visiting our very small Triumph - Ducati - KTM dealership.
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:25 pm
For the 1968-1970 era I think your analysis is spot on.
For 2008, well, there’s nothing like paying an insurance company huge bucks for performance that’s so over the top of any real world application that the bikes are little more than stud machines.
tom
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Good discovery there Paul !
I have to laugh at those horsepower claims though….
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:14 pm
But Harley DID maintain aspirations of staying in the performance hunt. HD Aermacchis were 250/350 roadracing World Champions 1974-1976. The Nova project was born in 1976.
It was probably the long gestation time and ultimate failure of the Nova project, along with the abandonment of roadracing and slashing of R&D budgets during the AMF years that was responsible for the long stretch of no-perf Harleys, not a lack of desire on the part of HD management or a calculated business strategy.
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Oh, they had performance Harleys in that era, and they were farther out of date than the Sportster. The big bikes they raced on road, flat track and TT courses were 750 KLR flatheads. Made for great racing against Gold Stars, Triumph Daytonas and other 500 cc overheads. But it was hardly the path to high tech advancement.
The Sportster was definitely butch in its time. A woman dispatch rider I knew in D.C. back in 1969 rode a BMW R50/2 on the job but had a magneto-fired XLCH for personal use. Come to think of it, she was kind of butch too.
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Yep, in those days HP was measured at the crank or often *calculated*. It is humbling to think that a modern 750-4 makes easily double those figures. I read an original Cycle World or Cycle review of the CB750 and the editors touted that the CB750 had more power than anyone less than a professional racer could handle and, in their opinion, was a dangerous weapon on the street. Maybe it was because Honda had so many (color)adds filling their (B&W) pages.
-todd
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:34 pm
i don’t think the Nova project failed, i think it was just sidelined for other projects.
really what was Harley supposed to do? to compete would have been such a drastic change in engine style that many brand loyalists may not have stayed loyal.
i’m waiting for the next big change. where is the new CB750 that will rock the motorcycle world. other than some styling changes, what has really changed in that last 30 years?
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:39 pm
At the time I wasn’t born, so your article is very interesting to me, illustrating and clarifying the critical period when the japanese manufacturers raised in the market…
(not born but I owned later some interesting kawis from the 1970s)
So the CB750 killed the english motorcycle industry, forced Harley to turn to their current fashionable object marketing strategy, and set up the reference for generations of bikes in terms of performance, reliability, accessibility.
Now, maybe this trend has gone too far ? … Because you definitely don’t need 100hp to catch up with the traffic, I’m currently riding a 45 hp supermoto that smokes out any cage in the traffic, outperform a lot of supersportsbikers in the mountain roads (and brought me a few speeding tickets too ;-). … Because a motorcycle by essence should be as close as possible to a “1 engine & 2 wheels” concept, and not a $15,000+ gas turbine with fancy electronics and rare metals (imho), if I want electronic gadgets to compensate my poor driving skills and raise my insurance bill I buy an Accord … Because it should keep on carrying the symbol of freedom, individualism (I know it’s cheesy) … all these elements that I can’t find or recognize in the descendants of the CB750, maybe a little bit more in a harley but dang ! … never pay that much for a bike !!!
Am I turning old, or something ?
(PS : the CB750 is a groundbreaking bike, the ducati desmosomethingRR motoGP is not)
May 2nd, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Harleys are typical of most american made stuff these days. So so quality and not the best that can be had. A sad state of affairs. I am an american and frusted with our lack and loss of manufacturing capabilities to other countries. It will catch us out and put us back.
I had a 2006 sprortster and that 1968 model would probably beat the 2006. Progress.
Even the new Buell 1125 is lacking to the competition and it is a new design. Who the heck is running these companies. Now they do know how to market to a bunch of over weight people that can’t really ride. Some how I think their days a numbered for the younger crowd. I am 54 and have had Harleys. I do not own one any more. I ride better bikes now.
May 2nd, 2008 at 5:03 pm
taxman,
Maybe Harley could have done something like this? That’s the same engine style.
May 2nd, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Kilowatt to tonne ratio of a 2008 Harley Davidson 883 Sportster: 95 kW/tonne.
Kilowatt to tonne ratio of a 1984 Honda VT250: 190kW/tonne.
May 2nd, 2008 at 6:00 pm
“What might have been?”
If HD had been interested in keeping the Sportster as a performance bike, rather than remarketing it as a ‘little big twin’ we would have had Buell much earlier
Good and bad in that scenario
May 2nd, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Nicolas,
“never pay that much for a bike !!! ” - sing it, Brother, sing.
and, “Am I turning old, or something ?” - yep
May 2nd, 2008 at 6:22 pm
As a Buell owner .I agree with poster #1 On the other hand my first HD was a new 1991 1200 sportster . I loved it and it was fun to ride . My second was a 1957 sportster chopper rigid frame and all I loved it too . I hope the Buell brand can overcome the stigma at HD dealers I love my firebolt to me it is the best of both worlds . A pumped up sporty motor and great handling .
May 2nd, 2008 at 6:29 pm
JB,
I hear you. I had a 1974 Sportster that was hot-rodded, reinforced swing arm, air shocks, real forks. Pulled of everything that had weight and little use, kick start. Dangerous little thing was fast and handled pretty well. It can be done. It was actually probably faster than my Buell was, or my Ducati for that matter - did not stop as well though.
I owned my Buell for a few years, but got so tired of the HD shops, that I could not bear it anymore. It is much less painful to get Ducati parts. I think Buell would be doing itself a great service in getting their bikes out of ust the HD shops and onto showrooms with Ducs, and Triumphs, etc., with other sportbikes
May 2nd, 2008 at 8:04 pm
the article makes a brilliant observation very good
May 4th, 2008 at 4:07 am
After owning a hardly dawdlesome (93 and 04) and a “classic” cb750 (78) I can safely say that I preferred the CB over both my old 93 softail for actual comfort and reliability. Hell I SOLD the softail for breaking down too much and bought the cb to ride when the HD was in the shop! And I prefer it over the 04 VRSCB as far as sound, comfort, handling, and just plain cool factor.
The VRSC series was a good start, granted theyre still 20-30 years behind the curve, liquid cooled, hydrolic clutch and a balanced motor was a big deal in 1985, but now a 600cc Honda can go just as fast as the rod. Progress? well, at least its a step beyond the 1340 motor, but HD will NEVER be able to compete with any other bike on ANY level save one, the fact that “its a harley”…. like that means something now?
The rods the best that HD has, but its just not good enough to be a race performer. And its too radical to be embraced by the brainwashed, and to be honest? Most rod riders prefer it like that. We like more than 120mph, but still want the lazy boy feel. And most of us dont fit in well with the hard core HD fans anyways.
May 4th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
“what’s the rush?” say the guys that won’t admit their high strung, louder than hell, unreliable, hundred and twenty inch aftermarket motors still get smoked by a civilized, reliable, comfortable 600…
May 4th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
So who is competing with who almost 40 years later?
I look at the 2008 Harley line and see lots of Harleys. I look at the 2008 Honda (etc..) line and see even more Harleys.
Does Harley NEED to build Hondas to thrive? No. Does Honda (etc..) NEED to build Harleys to thrive? Obviously.
Yet Harley needs to copy, uh, who now?
Yes, I’m disappointed that Harley won’t build the bikes (or do it really half assed when the do) that I like and even views those who do it themselves with contempt, but SO WHAT. There are plenty of other companies that build the bikes and/or engines I like (both of which happen to be Austrian, by the way). I find it funny that soooo many will sneer at the “Faithful” but then belittle Harley for not wasting time and money to kiss their own market’s ass. Why? Feel like you are being neglected by Honda (etc..) in some materialistically fulfilling way?
Oh yes - the Sportster is still in the showrooms. When was the last year for the CB750 here? Which segment of the market puts its money where its mouth is? How many current and content Harley owners were CB750 owners 30+ years ago? How’d that happen?
May 4th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
ROHORN,
The Sportster is a great bike, it still serves a wide market and especially in street tracker clothing I think it looks pretty cool.
The point I was making was that Harley pushed performance until someone pushed back and they just, shall we say, “re-purposed” the Sportster into something completely different. Instead of keeping the competitive fire burning in the Sportster ready to take on the world, it became just another Harley instead of one choice among many performance bikes.
It sold well and still sells well, but pre and post CB750, the point and purpose of a Sportster totally changed. That’s neither good nor bad, it just is what it is.
May 4th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Kneeslider,
Oh, I agree with every point you’ve made - but the attempts by others to make what happened almost 40 years ago relevant to todays market are, in my opinion, so much pavlovian drooling.
On a similar note - notice how many race replicas get “re-purposed” as cheaper sport-tourers in their respective lines. I can’t imagine Kawasaki selling a 10 year old 600 as their only 600 sport bike - yet they offer an old one (ZZR?) right next to the new one. It is hardly a recent practice.
It is, in my opinion, a shame that Harley didn’t do both as well. But that’s why other companies fill the potholes in the marketplace that Harley leaves behind.
May 5th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
It may be a reach but I don’t think the CB750 stole sales from the Sporster any more than it stole from BMW or Triumph. What it did was confirm that these companies over charged for inferior quality or performance.
Only BMW continued on without a dent because they *had* a high level of quality and their customer base wasn’t interested in the type of bike that the Honda was. Triumph and HD struggled because they refused to increase their quality levels, not because they didn’t have a 68HP inline-4. The Sportster and the Bonneville were already at the peak of their development, some argue PAST their peak. Harley recognized this and didn’t risk further mechanical failures. Triumph kept pushing for more power and the bikes let many people down with catastophic results.
BMW answered the MORE POWER call with the successful R90S. The Air Head beamer was a fresh development from 1969ish. The Bonnie and the Sporty were developments stretched out from the ’50’s. Triumph owners bought Yamaha XS650’s and Sportster owners bought HD Big Twins - to think that before that time no true Harley “Biker” would be caught dead on a Big-Twin, saving those for Police officers and “gentlemen tourers”. Now Baggers are all the rage.
Ducati filled the gap that Harley created after the succession of power to the CB750. The company that created little 250 thumpers would come out with the bike that Harley should have built, the 750GT and ultimately the SuperSport. It was these two bikes that ultimately stole sales from the Sportster.
-todd
May 6th, 2008 at 9:46 am
I guess the advent of the CB750 is not only a motorcyclistic (?) event, more likely another consequence of the japanese industrial supremacy beginning at the time. These guys, unlike the english, french or american industry, have raised the bar in terms of quality, productivity and innovation. It was true in automotive, electronics, and a lot of other domains, including motorcycles. For instance look even now when Ford wants to communicate about how great their cars are, they say “our quality is as good as Toyota”, or Chevy markets its flagships by comparing it to Accords or Camrys.
At the time, Triumph had well performing bike such as the Trident/Rocket3, I’m sure HD could have developped a faster bike, they have not been killed by inferior products or lack of ideas, but by the superior execution of the japanese, as mentioned in another article in this site. BMW and the german industry in general has always focused on quality and execution, and have always been in good shape with interesting products, too …
May 6th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
It seems when motorcycle manufacturers support factory sponsored racing their all product lines benefit from the gains in technological advancement. Correct me if I’m wrong but racing requires R&D, track proven technology to the show room raises the tide for all products in a company’s motorcycle line…regardless if it’s a touring bike or 1000cc superbike. Compliant suspension, spot on fuel injection, frame design, etc.
Could be one of the reasons why BMW and Triumph are becoming larger players in motorcycle competition?
When did Harley put fuel injection in their bikes? And I remember the big to do about their rubber engine mounts a few years ago. Not bashing really but I would have loved to have bought super sport flat track looking bike that made an honest 60hp at the whell, could rev a bit, and not touch hard parts ever time you want to lean it over. My 620 Ducati Monster (my first bike) did all these things for $6K out the door in 2002.
May 6th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
I guess the CB750 is kind of like the Ak-47. A historian wrote “There were rebellions before the AK-47 and then there were rebellions after the AK-47”. There were motorcycles before the CB750 and there were motorcycle’s after the Cb750