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	<title>Comments on: KillaCycle Electric Dragbike Runs 8.76 Quarter Mile</title>
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	<link>http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/03/13/killacycle-electric-dragbike-runs-876-quarter-mile/</link>
	<description>Motorcycle News for Positive People</description>
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		<title>By: tina juarez</title>
		<link>http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/03/13/killacycle-electric-dragbike-runs-876-quarter-mile/#comment-73915</link>
		<dc:creator>tina juarez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 15:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Joe Says &amp; Loud engine lovers: 
WE at Tina Inc. are already working on that problem.  We have a proto type for a mechanical noise enhancer.  Our main problem at this time is finding clothespins strong enough to stay on at current speeds.
Our electronic team is working on a holder that will keep the ipod in place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe Says &amp; Loud engine lovers:<br />
WE at Tina Inc. are already working on that problem.  We have a proto type for a mechanical noise enhancer.  Our main problem at this time is finding clothespins strong enough to stay on at current speeds.<br />
Our electronic team is working on a holder that will keep the ipod in place.</p>
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		<title>By: sfan</title>
		<link>http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/03/13/killacycle-electric-dragbike-runs-876-quarter-mile/#comment-73382</link>
		<dc:creator>sfan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 09:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Excellent; thanks again, this has been very helpful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent; thanks again, this has been very helpful.</p>
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		<title>By: GenWaylaid</title>
		<link>http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/03/13/killacycle-electric-dragbike-runs-876-quarter-mile/#comment-73356</link>
		<dc:creator>GenWaylaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 01:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sfan,

The battery companies are discussing maximum power draw, which is measured in watts, not energy storage, which is measured in joules or watt hours (1 Wh = 3600 Ws = 3600 J).  A standard A123 cell has 2.3 amp hours at 3.3 volts, for an energy content of 7.6 watt hours.  This comes from a package with a mass of 70 grams.  Allowing a 10% mass increase for wires and connections (which is highly optimistic), that brings us close to 76 g / 7.6 Wh = 10 kg/kWh.

The ability to move power in and out of the A123 batteries quickly is really mind-boggling.  You could ride for 120 miles on a 17 kWh pack in our benchmark design, or you could expend it all in one two minute, 510 kW (682 hp) burst!  That is why drag racing is a natural sport for electric vehicles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sfan,</p>
<p>The battery companies are discussing maximum power draw, which is measured in watts, not energy storage, which is measured in joules or watt hours (1 Wh = 3600 Ws = 3600 J).  A standard A123 cell has 2.3 amp hours at 3.3 volts, for an energy content of 7.6 watt hours.  This comes from a package with a mass of 70 grams.  Allowing a 10% mass increase for wires and connections (which is highly optimistic), that brings us close to 76 g / 7.6 Wh = 10 kg/kWh.</p>
<p>The ability to move power in and out of the A123 batteries quickly is really mind-boggling.  You could ride for 120 miles on a 17 kWh pack in our benchmark design, or you could expend it all in one two minute, 510 kW (682 hp) burst!  That is why drag racing is a natural sport for electric vehicles.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: sfan</title>
		<link>http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/03/13/killacycle-electric-dragbike-runs-876-quarter-mile/#comment-73338</link>
		<dc:creator>sfan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/03/13/killacycle-electric-dragbike-runs-876-quarter-mile/#comment-73338</guid>
		<description>Thanks very much for this tutorial GenWaylaid. It seems as though price &amp; weight are the key variables to watch. Let&#039;s hope that something akin to the price:performance gains in microprocessors and storage may ultimately apply to battery technology.

You mentioned &quot;each kWh would have about 10 kg mass... &quot;. A follow up question; looking at the chart on http://www.a123systems.com/html/technology.html# and in this paper http://www.altairnano.com/documents/altair_anoder_way.pdf, it seems that the nano-li-ion startups are claiming 3kw to 4kw/kg versus &quot;Conventional lithium ion batteries result in power levels of 1kW per kilogram&quot; Does this jive with your 1kWh=10KG rule of thumb? I note they refer to kW and not kWh. I understand the difference between kilowatt and kilowatt hours but, for the intended purposes, it their metric would seem be of little use unless they meant the same application as your metric.

If they do mean 3+kWh/kg, if their numbers are to be believed, and if the technology is capable of efficient mass production, then we seem to be closer to battery packs producing the same power and range per KG as we get from gas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks very much for this tutorial GenWaylaid. It seems as though price &amp; weight are the key variables to watch. Let&#8217;s hope that something akin to the price:performance gains in microprocessors and storage may ultimately apply to battery technology.</p>
<p>You mentioned &#8220;each kWh would have about 10 kg mass&#8230; &#8220;. A follow up question; looking at the chart on <a href="http://www.a123systems.com/html/technology.html#" rel="nofollow">http://www.a123systems.com/html/technology.html#</a> and in this paper <a href="http://www.altairnano.com/documents/altair_anoder_way.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.altairnano.com/documents/altair_anoder_way.pdf</a>, it seems that the nano-li-ion startups are claiming 3kw to 4kw/kg versus &#8220;Conventional lithium ion batteries result in power levels of 1kW per kilogram&#8221; Does this jive with your 1kWh=10KG rule of thumb? I note they refer to kW and not kWh. I understand the difference between kilowatt and kilowatt hours but, for the intended purposes, it their metric would seem be of little use unless they meant the same application as your metric.</p>
<p>If they do mean 3+kWh/kg, if their numbers are to be believed, and if the technology is capable of efficient mass production, then we seem to be closer to battery packs producing the same power and range per KG as we get from gas.</p>
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		<title>By: GenWaylaid</title>
		<link>http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/03/13/killacycle-electric-dragbike-runs-876-quarter-mile/#comment-73283</link>
		<dc:creator>GenWaylaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 02:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Oh, I should mention that depending on local electricity rates, a full charge for our benchmark bike would cost $1.25 to $3.00.  In terms of cost-per-mile, that&#039;s like getting 120 to 300 miles per gallon!  Maintenance costs would also be very low, but even then I doubt you&#039;d recover the cost of the $17000 battery pack over a typical 1000-charge lifetime.  The lifetime fuel savings would be $5500 to $7000 at current energy prices, assuming you actually rode 120000 miles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I should mention that depending on local electricity rates, a full charge for our benchmark bike would cost $1.25 to $3.00.  In terms of cost-per-mile, that&#8217;s like getting 120 to 300 miles per gallon!  Maintenance costs would also be very low, but even then I doubt you&#8217;d recover the cost of the $17000 battery pack over a typical 1000-charge lifetime.  The lifetime fuel savings would be $5500 to $7000 at current energy prices, assuming you actually rode 120000 miles.</p>
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