Comments on: Motorcycle Trends – Declining Trend 1

By: Uriah

Uriah — Thu, 01 Jun 2006 06:21:00 +0000

Right on Bryan, though as a little nitpicky thing you should reverse your numbers on hp vs torque– diesels are torquey with low hp. I am totally with all the above posters regarding seeing some really nice low-displacement bikes out there. The original Harley WL (’36-’51) motor was only 739cc, and it had way more power than was needed to move that huge hunk of steel. A really well-built and hella stylish standard with a big aftermarket available in 450 and 650 diesel motorcycle with an automatic transmission and a big tank would sell really well all over the world, even if big cruisers continue their utter and complete domination of the US market. The Harley Sportster can pretend to be anything from a tourer to a race bike– keep it simple and elegant so it’s easy to work on, keep the price low, and offer models using the same drive train in a variety of configurations for different sized riders both big and small (I’m 6’7″ 400lbs– I had to custom machine extended foot controls for my Honda CB400 when I wanted to learn to ride without buying a big new cruiser– that said, it did an admirable job of pushing my weight uphill though I never tried for highway speeds– little people have even worse problems, so I hear). If say Yamaha or Honda, two companies with very good reputations and worldwide distribution models, came out with (what used to be called) a mid-sized bike for a low low price that potentially ate bio-diesel for close to 100mpg and 300+ miles per tank, could touch 100mph downhill with a tailwind, and be really super fun to ride in the city, on windy bumpy back roads, or even at the track with a few minor upgrades, they’d really have something. Using the same basic chassis and drivetrain across a standard, cruiser, and cafe-racer styled bike could build a large aftermarket. Additionally supporting the both models with some high-performance parts and if you sold enough of them you could sponsor model-specific amateur racing leagues. Again, it might not really take off in the US, since Harley owns the market and we’re too wrapped up in the whole world domination kick to appreciate cheap simple fun when we could have bigger, faster and more, but such a thing could be very popular among our disenchanted youth.

I’d recommend a 125 or 250cc model, but already scooters have all but eaten up the small motorcycle segment, and that is probably going to continue. Automatic transmissions are popular. Not having to straddle a 26″ tall hunk of foam is popular too. And they really are fun, even for giants like me, though I’d wager I look a little funny on anything short of my big cruiser. That said, how about seeing some diesel going on in that front as well? Biodiesel seems to me to be the best available option for alleviating the whole petroleum supply issue.

Anyway, a bike like I’ve described would be nicely upmarket in developing countries (can you say India and China? 2 billion potential customers there aching for a little motorized freedom at an affordable price) while still being affordable for those markets, and western countries get the benefit of a super-cheap bike, whether to learn on or to ride daily.

Also, that trike-scooter thing? Awesomeness. The reversed sportbike from spain also seems cool.

By: sfan

sfan — Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:47:19 +0000

I agree with Bryan’s comments about high tech, high efficiency, green diesel is a _major_ opportunity.

By: Bryan

Bryan — Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:02:42 +0000

If I’m reading the market indicators correctly, it seems Recreational Vehicle Company’s seeking to garner more market share during this transitional period from gasoline towards electric vehicles (the next 5 to 15 years) should focus on two things:

1. Produce a breakthrough spark-ignited, ultra-lite weight air-cooled diesel engine for ATV and Street use. Efficiency and mileage will mean everything in the next several years—especially where recreation is concerned. Such engines should average at least 75 to 150 MPG (depending on motor size and driving style), generate 30% more power at lower RPM than their gasoline predecessors, burn ultra-lean and operate at lower temperatures. Such engines should remain tweak-able and be capable of burning #2 diesel, Jet A, recycled cooking oils and Bio Diesel. This alone would help achieve maximum positive PR and generate amazing public interest for the company who does it first!

2. Build lighter-weight, simpler, more reliable, longer-range and easily customizable products (see below).

2010 – Now THIS is a BIKE!

What type of bike will successful manufacturers be building in 2010? If they pay attention to the above, it should sound something like this: A 186 pound torquey two-stroke, air-cooled diesel version of Honda’s CRF250X or Yamaha’s YZ250F producing around 46 HP and 38 ft/lbs of torque with a max speed of 92 mph from the factory. This engine should average about 340 miles on a 3.4 gallon stock tank (100 mpg) and pull like a mule until you hit the kill switch. Exhaust gas temps will be remarkably cool—-nearly 690 degrees lower than that of gasoline bikes—-so extended harsh play in deep sand should not be a factor. It may have Dunlop or Michillen’s airless “tweel” technology giving it superior characteristics both on-road and off.

ADDITIONAL OPINION

Diesel is an intermediate step until electrical storage technology matures. As such, our Recreational Vehicle Industry–as-well-as moto-enthusiasts world-wide– should push for the immediate development of ultra-clean, ultra-efficient diesel powerplants. Nothing would say “GREEN” or “RESPONSIBLE” more than if our Industry led the way in ultra-efficient Diesel development. It would demonstrate we are serious about protecting and preserving our riding area: Planet Earth. If we beat the auto industry to this goal it will make quite a statement as to who is REALLY interested in caring for the environment! Yes, a powerful, long-range, quiet, electric bike would be the ultimate in responsible fun but until certain other technologies have matured, super efficient Diesels are our best bet for the next decade.

By: sfan

sfan — Thu, 30 Mar 2006 02:16:39 +0000

Why has the the Mazda Miata always been so popular? Why will so many people still have an emotional connection to them 20 years from now when the originals are “classics” adored and still driven by life-long fans? It won’t be because their design made a bold and brash statement. It won’t be because they had the latest and greatest new gadgets. It won’t be because it was the fastest, hardest cornering, monster braking that brought in the best numbers at a track comparison test. It won’t be because the owner is compensating for anything.

I think it may be because of a whole bunch of subtleties and intangibles woven in with sound engineering, reliable construction, and tasteful looks. These, and some mysterious “zoom-zoom” have created a driving experience some people will never get tired of.

What motorcycles have stood in this ground over the years and, more important, are they still there for you? What current bikes are candidates? Whatever they are, I’d like to see more manufacturers striving for this sweet spot in in at least some of their line up.

By: todd

todd — Thu, 30 Mar 2006 00:50:16 +0000

I never understood it. Sure I’ve ridden plenty of “fast” bikes but I never felt that they were any more fun than all the other bikes. After 15+ years of riding and riding all sorts of bikes, I’ve grown to love the lightweight, low capacity road bike.
I don’t know why there aren’t any 350cc sport bikes. Something that doesn’t comrimise on components, quality, or modernity just because it isn’t the fastest on the road. Why are they still building Ninja 250′s out of leftover stock from 1984? They sell thousands upon thousands of those things every year, more than many brands can sell of their entire line ip. It definitely isn’t because they are up-to-date or even that good looking. No, it’s because they offer acceptable performance, great quality and durability, and great value (they also happen to have a low seat height). You would tend to think that if they actually spent a little time on the styling they could double their sales.
Honda used to have the CB1, basically the CB400F or even the niche GB500 or 650 Hawk. I like these bikes a lot. They have more capability than I have, are faster than I’ve ever needed to ride and looked great. Why aren’t bikes like this still available? Why is a Yamaha R6 considered an entry level bike, with barely adequate performance? Have these people ever even ridden an R6? These things are pure race bikes.
I once read an article from a 1969 review of the “new” CB750. Their conclusion was that it would not prove very popular because it was more bike than anyone could ever need or use. It was only reccommended for “highly experienced riders”. When the Kawasaki Z1 came out they called it a monster that could only be tamed by the most daring rider. Now-a-days the Suzuki SV650 can smoke both of those bikes yet it is most often reccommended as a decent first bike to wet one’s appetite for motorcycling. Why has the perception and respect of power and speed diminished so much over the years?
I think too many people read too many motorcycle magazines. Those mags tell you the CBR is slow leaving turn three and the GSXR can carry more speeds through the corner. What does this do? This tells all the teenagers (and likewise minded people) that the CBR is “slow” and that the GSXR “handles better”. Hello! these things are both excellent bikes and no one but professional motorcyclists will ever notice the difference between the two or ever extract the most performance out of either of them.
This reminds me of something I realized many years ago. I once traded bikes on a ride with a friend who owned a CBR600F3. He rode my Honda GB500. His impression was that there wan’t much difference between the bikes other than sound and feel (smoothness). I didn’t understand this at first, his CBR made well over 80 hp where my GB pushes a little more than 33 hp. It wasn’t until I found out that he shifts his bike between 5000 and 6000 RPM until I understood the larger problem; he wasn’t the only one. I fear the majority of riders are only revving to 5500 rpm and getting 20 or so HP out of their bikes. This could explain why people think a 600 is slow and think they need a 1200. A 1200 probably puts out 40 hp at 5500 RPM, that seems to be what people want. Me? I ride every bike like it’s 50cc, bringing it well up into its powerband almost regularly.
-todd
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