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	<title>Comments on: Motorcycle Companies Reborn</title>
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	<link>http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2005/06/05/motorcycle-companies-reborn/</link>
	<description>Motorcycle News for Positive People</description>
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		<title>By: hoyt</title>
		<link>http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2005/06/05/motorcycle-companies-reborn/comment-page-1/#comment-2235</link>
		<dc:creator>hoyt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2005 03:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=337#comment-2235</guid>
		<description>Triumph is a special case for the reasons you cited....the others don&#039;t seem to have a connection at all.

Moto Morini doesn&#039;t have the connection that the 2nd coming of Triumph has; but Moto Morini has something there more than a cloned-HD with an Indian badge.....maybe it is the engine and the play on the &quot;3 1/2&quot; name.

Maybe Indian would have done better if they waited until they had their own engine from day 1.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Triumph is a special case for the reasons you cited&#8230;.the others don&#8217;t seem to have a connection at all.</p>
<p>Moto Morini doesn&#8217;t have the connection that the 2nd coming of Triumph has; but Moto Morini has something there more than a cloned-HD with an Indian badge&#8230;..maybe it is the engine and the play on the &#8220;3 1/2&#8243; name.</p>
<p>Maybe Indian would have done better if they waited until they had their own engine from day 1.</p>
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		<title>By: Rp</title>
		<link>http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2005/06/05/motorcycle-companies-reborn/comment-page-1/#comment-2148</link>
		<dc:creator>Rp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jun 2005 02:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=337#comment-2148</guid>
		<description>You have a valid argument but I have to point out the most bikes of today have nothing in common with thier ancestors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have a valid argument but I have to point out the most bikes of today have nothing in common with thier ancestors.</p>
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		<title>By: kneeslider</title>
		<link>http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2005/06/05/motorcycle-companies-reborn/comment-page-1/#comment-2147</link>
		<dc:creator>kneeslider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jun 2005 00:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=337#comment-2147</guid>
		<description>I specifically did not mention Triumph because it is almost a special case, Triumph was dead but the body was still warm and if I am not mistaken, some original Triumph employees came on board (not sure of that) so there was more of an actual connection. A lot of good will also existed from previous customers still riding their old Triumphs. There was a customer base already in place waiting for someone to make it happen. In a way, I think the success of Triumph is one reason why some of these other companies got the idea, ignoring the special differences that existed.

The companies I mentioned above simply bought a name under the idea that if they build it, buyers will come. There&#039;s always the curious few who will buy anything but long term you need a better plan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I specifically did not mention Triumph because it is almost a special case, Triumph was dead but the body was still warm and if I am not mistaken, some original Triumph employees came on board (not sure of that) so there was more of an actual connection. A lot of good will also existed from previous customers still riding their old Triumphs. There was a customer base already in place waiting for someone to make it happen. In a way, I think the success of Triumph is one reason why some of these other companies got the idea, ignoring the special differences that existed.</p>
<p>The companies I mentioned above simply bought a name under the idea that if they build it, buyers will come. There&#8217;s always the curious few who will buy anything but long term you need a better plan.</p>
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		<title>By: hoyt</title>
		<link>http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2005/06/05/motorcycle-companies-reborn/comment-page-1/#comment-2146</link>
		<dc:creator>hoyt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jun 2005 20:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=337#comment-2146</guid>
		<description>great post, Kneeslider...

hopefully more readers will give some feedback since there is a lot to be said about this topic.

(I agree with you since I personally would want to put an original name on a bike after all the effort put into realizing a motorcycle from concept to production.  In addition, the &quot;re-born&quot; craze is played out and not interesting anymore*)

Marketing, alone, seemed to have shoved its way to the front of the business plan for Excelsior Henderson, Indian, and others instead of a solid product. [the Super X couldn&#039;t even out perform a Harley]

Triumph is a challenging example in this topic because they are succeeding not only in terms of sales numbers &amp; marketing, but their product line is sharp no matter what name is on the tank.  Under the new company, innovative and entirely new bikes (Rocket III, Daytona, 650 4)  co-exist well with modern examples of the classics (Thruxton, Bonneville, etc.).  

I think the Triumph name helped Hinckley get to the current line-up sooner than an original name would have.  Also, the re-born craze wasn&#039;t as bad when Triumph brought back the name so consumers/investors were more receptive.

So, Excelsior and Indian demonstrated what not to do by putting marketing first.  Why wouldn&#039;t Eller Industries push on, then? They had the product line-up first but didn&#039;t have the &quot;necessary&quot; historic mark (they lost a court battle for the Indian name).

The last I knew Eller was moving forward with their own identity, but then one day I couldn&#039;t even log onto their site. Major bummer...their prototypes consisted of a fresh looking cruiser, a sport crusier, and my personal favorite, a v-twin sportbike with the engine mounted guzzi-style across the frame but with chain drive.  Eller Industires could be a victim of trends in marketing...at the time, it was a common belief that you had to have &quot;history&quot; to compete against HD. [did Eller spend too much time and money in court going after the old  Indian name? ] 

* the latest re-born mark that I know of is Moto Morini (not available in the States, yet).  This could be the cleanest looking, liquid-cooled naked bike going....to your argument, kneeslider, then why not put a fresh name to it? Now that the re-born craze is over-baked a new name might serve them better, anyway.  check out: http://www.motomorini.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>great post, Kneeslider&#8230;</p>
<p>hopefully more readers will give some feedback since there is a lot to be said about this topic.</p>
<p>(I agree with you since I personally would want to put an original name on a bike after all the effort put into realizing a motorcycle from concept to production.  In addition, the &#8220;re-born&#8221; craze is played out and not interesting anymore*)</p>
<p>Marketing, alone, seemed to have shoved its way to the front of the business plan for Excelsior Henderson, Indian, and others instead of a solid product. [the Super X couldn't even out perform a Harley]</p>
<p>Triumph is a challenging example in this topic because they are succeeding not only in terms of sales numbers &#038; marketing, but their product line is sharp no matter what name is on the tank.  Under the new company, innovative and entirely new bikes (Rocket III, Daytona, 650 4)  co-exist well with modern examples of the classics (Thruxton, Bonneville, etc.).  </p>
<p>I think the Triumph name helped Hinckley get to the current line-up sooner than an original name would have.  Also, the re-born craze wasn&#8217;t as bad when Triumph brought back the name so consumers/investors were more receptive.</p>
<p>So, Excelsior and Indian demonstrated what not to do by putting marketing first.  Why wouldn&#8217;t Eller Industries push on, then? They had the product line-up first but didn&#8217;t have the &#8220;necessary&#8221; historic mark (they lost a court battle for the Indian name).</p>
<p>The last I knew Eller was moving forward with their own identity, but then one day I couldn&#8217;t even log onto their site. Major bummer&#8230;their prototypes consisted of a fresh looking cruiser, a sport crusier, and my personal favorite, a v-twin sportbike with the engine mounted guzzi-style across the frame but with chain drive.  Eller Industires could be a victim of trends in marketing&#8230;at the time, it was a common belief that you had to have &#8220;history&#8221; to compete against HD. [did Eller spend too much time and money in court going after the old  Indian name? ] </p>
<p>* the latest re-born mark that I know of is Moto Morini (not available in the States, yet).  This could be the cleanest looking, liquid-cooled naked bike going&#8230;.to your argument, kneeslider, then why not put a fresh name to it? Now that the re-born craze is over-baked a new name might serve them better, anyway.  check out: <a href="http://www.motomorini.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.motomorini.com/</a></p>
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